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Eldorado

5yr-old Thai twins forced to marry each other

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Eldorado

Five-year-old Thai twins were forced to marry because their Buddhist family believe they were lovers in a past life.

The boy and his sister were married at their home in Nakhon Si Thammarat, Thailand on March 4.

Their devoutly religious parents follow Buddhist teachings that claim twins are born together due to a previous connection from a past life.

Full story at the Queensland Times: Link

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Piney
35 minutes ago, Eldorado said:

Their devoutly religious parents follow Buddhist teachings that claim twins are born together due to a previous connection from a past life.

That's one particular sect and certainly not mine. Disturbing......... :hmm:

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Hammerclaw

Curious custom. Some Easterners find it equally curious that Westerners give names to their dogs.

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the13bats

"Custom"?

Slavery by any other name is just as heinous

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spartan max2

Archaic

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Hammerclaw

Moral judgmentalism. Westerners, judging Third World customs by Western moral standards. The classical "Ugly American" point-of-view.

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spartan max2
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Moral judgmentalism. Westerners, judging Third World customs by Western moral standards. The classical "Ugly American" point-of-view.

Moral relativism is dumb. 

Some things are bad.

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Hammerclaw
3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Moral relativism is dumb. 

Some things are bad.

That's too bad, because you can't cancel another people's culture. It's their prerogative to maintain or change their customs and our input or approval is not required.

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spartan max2
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

That's too bad, because you can't cancel another people's culture. It's their prerogative to maintain or change their customs and our input or approval is not required.

Yes, unfortunately I can't stop people from abusing children.

May I ask by what metrics you think marrying 5 year olds is moral?

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Hammerclaw
Just now, spartan max2 said:

Yes, unfortunately I can't stop people from abusing children.

May I ask by what metrics you think marrying 5 year olds is moral?

Sorry. You'll have to ride your Western High-horse by yourself. It's moral within the context of the country, the culture and people who practice it. I realize it's a concept incredibly hard for the Western Morally Pious to wrap their heads around. The world is full of moral standards, other than our own and virtually all of them have aspects that would not meet with your approval. 

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Sorry. You'll have to ride your Western High-horse by yourself. It's moral within the context of the country, the culture and people who practice it. I realize it's a concept incredibly hard for the Western Morally Pious to wrap their heads around. The world is full of moral standards, other than our own and virtually all of them have aspects that would not meet with your approval. 

So do you believe it is moral? 

If not then why defend something that is immoral?

Do you defend slavery as long as it's another culture doing it? How about sex slaves with minors?

As humans we decide what is moral and what is not. What metrics do you use? Or do you just allow all forms of horror because it's what someone else is fine with.

 

Edited by spartan max2
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Hammerclaw
Just now, spartan max2 said:

So do you believe it is moral? 

If not then why defend something that is immoral?

Do you defend slavery as long as it's another culture doing it? About about sex slaves with minors.

As humans we decide what is moral and what is not. What metrics do you use? Or do you just allow all forms of horror because it's what someone else is fine with.

Well Mr. Missionary, just what the hell do you think should be done about all the customs around the world you don't approve of?

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spartan max2
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Well Mr. Missionary, just what the hell do you think should be done about all the customs around the world you don't approve of?

What? So we can't think something is immoral unless we somehow stop it? Lol. I obviously don't have power.

But I'm definitely going to point out how it's abusive and harmful when the subject comes up. Hopefully if someone from that cultures read about it on the internet they will be exposed to it and see it's harmful.

In fact, thats how human society has progressed. From people pointing out what is wrong.

Not from people like you saying "oh it's fine, it's there culture"

 

 

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Hammerclaw
Just now, spartan max2 said:

What? So we can't think something is immoral unless we somehow stop it? Lol. I obviously don't have power.

But I'm definitely going to point out how it's abusive and harmful when the subject comes up. Hopefully if someone from that cultures read about it on the internet they will be exposed to it and see it's harmful.

In fact, thats how human society has progressed. From people pointing out what is wrong.

Not from people like you saying "oh it's fine, it's there culture"

 

 

Do you think our culture is above reproach from the outside? They might respond to you by saying Westerners are hypocrites. Why, you Westerners profess to care so much about children, yet you abort them whenever they're inconvenient. Yet, that's O-kay, it's part of our culture and how dare outsiders pass moral judgment on us because of it? In any event, the Bride and Groom are five years old and not likely to consummate their marriage, any time soon. 

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spartan max2
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Do you think our culture is above reproach from the outside? They might respond to you by saying Westerners are hypocrites. Why, you Westerners profess to care so much about children, yet you abort them whenever they're inconvenient. Yet, that's O-kay, it's part of our culture and how dare outsiders pass moral judgment on us because of it? In any event, the Bride and Groom are five years old and not likely to consummate their marriage, any time soon. 

No :huh: lol. I never said that and it's odd to me that that's where your mind went. 

No culture is above reproach. If someone thinks we do something immoral then they can tell me by what metrics they think something is immoral. And we can debate about it.

That's how it works. No free pass for "culture".

I think marrying five years old is harmful and abusive. Do you? 

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Occupational Hubris
1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

What? So we can't think something is immoral unless we somehow stop it? Lol. I obviously don't have power.

But I'm definitely going to point out how it's abusive and harmful when the subject comes up. Hopefully if someone from that cultures read about it on the internet they will be exposed to it and see it's harmful.

In fact, thats how human society has progressed. From people pointing out what is wrong.

Not from people like you saying "oh it's fine, it's there culture"

 

 

To be fair, he never said it was fine. I don't see that he made any comment on it other than "western judgment". Which he isn't wrong about. People in the US have a habit of clutching their pearls about this and that in other counties all the time.There are many things that other cultures do that westerners find repugnant. Most are harmless. Some obviously are not. Marrying twins, for example, depending on context. In this case, it's purely ceremonial and so that the y don't have "bad luck" teh rets of their lives. They'r enot intende dto live as a married couple.

Quote

Despite the extravagant wedding, the twin's marriage is not legally valid and was only orchestrated for ceremonial purposes.

I also think you have a point people should speak up about those things that are inherently damaging, despite the cultural differences and ethnocentric viewpoints. 

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Occupational Hubris said:

To be fair, he never said it was fine. I don't see that he made any comment on it other than "western judgment". Which he isn't wrong about. People in the US have a habit of clutching their pearls about this and that in other counties all the time.There are many things that other cultures do that westerners find repugnant. Most are harmless. Some obviously are not. Marrying twins, for example, depending on context. In this case, it's purely ceremonial and so that the y don't have "bad luck" teh rets of their lives. They'r enot intende dto live as a married couple.

I also think you have a point people should speak up about those things that are inherently damaging, despite the cultural differences and ethnocentric viewpoints. 

Sure, he didn't say it was fine.

Yet he refused to say it was immoral when asked and calls it judgmental to say it's immoral.

Despite whatever his intentions,  it's a pretty clear defense of it. 

But as you pointed out it not being legally binding definitely makes it less of a big deal. Not what I picturesd from the OP title.

But in regards to moral relativism you get my point.

Edited by spartan max2
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Hammerclaw
4 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

No :huh: lol. I never said that and it's odd to me that that's where your mind went. 

No culture is above reproach. If someone thinks we do something immoral then they can tell me by what metrics they think something is immoral. And we can debate about it.

That's how it works. No free pass for "culture".

I think marrying five years old is harmful and abusive. Do you? 

It's not immoral by their standards. 

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It's not immoral by their standards. 

I don't care lol. Moral relativism is dumb homie. 

What metrics do you use to decide right and wrong?

 

Edited by spartan max2

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Hammerclaw
Just now, spartan max2 said:

I don't care lol Moralal relativism is dumb homie. 

What metrics do you use to decide right and wrong?

 

In the Western world, Western standards, although they vary considerably from State to State, Country to Country--the age of consent, legal age for alcohol consumption, Social benefits bestowed by the government etc. As far as cultural mores are concerned, those are decided by the majority within a particular cultural complex, not by the hand-wringing of sanctimonious outsiders. Their customs are what they are and I choose not to judge them by our own standards. In the late nineteenth century up to the mid twentieth century, our government took Native American children away from their parents because whites did not approved of their ways, and attempted to commit cultural genocide by forcefully assimilating them in Indian Schools. When they were returned to their parents, many had forgotten their own language and couldn't talk to or understand them. So, I'm leery of doing the same thing to nonwhites. It's their choice whether or not to adopt our ways.

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spartan max2
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

In the Western world, Western standards, although they vary considerably from State to State, Country to Country--the age of consent, legal age for alcohol consumption, Social benefits bestowed by the government etc. As far as cultural mores are concerned, those are decided by the majority within a particular cultural complex, not by the hand-wringing of sanctimonious outsiders. Their customs are what they are and I choose not to judge them by our own standards. In the late nineteenth century up to the mid twentieth century, our government took Native American children away from their parents because whites did not approved of their ways, and attempted to commit cultural genocide by forcefully assimilating them in Indian Schools. When they were returned to their parents, many had forgotten their own language and couldn't talk to or understand them. So, I'm leery of doing the same thing to nonwhites. It's their choice whether or not to adopt our ways.

So do you consider those things in the past immoral or do you not because "culture"?

 

 

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Hammerclaw
Just now, spartan max2 said:

So do you consider those things in the past immoral or do you not because "culture"?

 

 

This is a fruitless discussion. You're like a tourist that visits a foreign country and can't understand why everyone hasn't learned English. Now, I know you're not that ignorant and I know you mean well. What you refuse accept is that morality is relative to the situation, not absolute. The world has more than one people, one culture and more than one moral standard and some things, wrong from our perspective, aren't from theirs.

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

This is a fruitless discussion. You're like a tourist that visits a foreign country and can't understand why everyone hasn't learned English. Now, I know you're not that ignorant and I know you mean well. What you refuse accept is that morality is relative to the situation, not absolute. The world has more than one people, one culture and more than one moral standard and some things, wrong from our perspective, aren't from theirs.

You literally have avoided all of my questions because you know it would show the flaws in what you're saying lol.

Moral relativism is dumb. 

 

 

Edited by spartan max2
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Sir Wearer of Hats

Were the twins named Jamie and Cersei by any chance?

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Sir Wearer of Hats
4 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

You literally have avoided all of my questions because you know it would show the flaws in what you're saying lol.

Moral relativism is dumb. 

 

 

It’s Hammer’s “go to” rhetorical device, if someone from Australia mentions America’s abuse of Native Americans, he’ll bring up Australia’s equally horrid treatment of the First Nations as a deflection. If someone from Germany brings up detention facilities, he’ll bring up Dachau.

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