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Xeno-Fish

Positive Thinking is Overrated

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Xeno-Fish
Posted (edited)

https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/bah-humbug-why-positive-thinking-is-overrated/

“So it seems that as pleasurable as these positive fantasies and daydreams are, and as good they are for exploring various possibilities in our futures, when it comes to implementing these wishes, they are actually really hurtful,” says Oettingen, who has written a book based on her research, Rethinking Positive Thinking.

“This is not only in the physical health domain, but also in psychological health. We find that the more people fantasise about a positive future, the less depressed they are at that moment but the more depressed they get over time.”

What Oettingen’s research shows is that when people are encouraged to daydream about something like landing a fantastic new job, or getting together with someone they have a crush on, they feel like they have already achieved their goal, so they relax. “These positive daydreams sap their energy and we need this energy to implement the dreams,” she says.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90575887/why-looking-on-the-bright-side-is-overrated

Edited by XenoFish
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ouija ouija

Good topic! :tsu: I agree with the OP and the two articles. Our day-to-day, default position should be neither positive nor negative, happy nor sad because 90% of the time life is neutral. This neutrality, I believe, can help us to feel contentment.

 

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the13bats
Posted (edited)

Ill have to think about this,

i sure cant say 90% of my daily life is netural, and i dont mean just from my point of view, point of view only goes so far if a good 50 to 75% of your time isnt positive.

i do find myself trying to get thru crap down times just filling my head with pointless happy stuff, its fantasy fodder to get by i dont get worse that it never happens i never really thought it would,

I guess it helps take the edge off in the moment but it doesnt always work.

 

Edited by the13bats
typo
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joc
1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

“ We find that the more people fantasise about a positive future, the less depressed they are at that moment but the more depressed they get over time.”

Okay, as such, I am an expert in the realm of positive thinking.   Positive thinking has absolutely nothing  to do with fantasizing about the future.  

Therefore, her premise is completely wrong. Hence, she doesn't get what positive thinking is all about.

55 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

Our day-to-day, default position should be neither positive nor negative, happy nor sad because 90% of the time life is neutral. This neutrality, I believe, can help us to feel contentment.

Again, this has nothing to do with positive thinking.   Our moment to moment default position should be Positive Thought process.  This is what creates happiness.   This is what creates contentment.

Positive thinking simply put is this:   Removing all negatives from our thought process.   If you think about the words that come out of your mouth, if you think about the words that form thoughts in your head, you will have more of an idea of how you actually think.  Most of us use words like Can't, Won't, Shouldn't, Wouldn't routinely in our thinking and speech.

Positive thinking is what happens naturally in your brain when you remove these words from you vocabulary and mind.

I can't do that ....is replaced with...I can do that.   I couldn't do that...becomes...I could do that. 

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Xeno-Fish

Do you have that Pollyanna optimism Joc? 

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Xeno-Fish

The issue I see with these positive fantasy is that the 'fantasy is better and easier than reality'. Why bother trying when you can imagine. Positive thinking without constructive actions is useless.

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ouija ouija
2 minutes ago, joc said:

 Most of us use words like Can't, Won't, Shouldn't, Wouldn't routinely in our thinking and speech.

Positive thinking is what happens naturally in your brain when you remove these words from you vocabulary and mind.

I can't do that ....is replaced with...I can do that.   I couldn't do that...becomes...I could do that. 

. . . . . . . aaand we're straight back to phantasising! :lol: We can't do everything we want to do! 

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joc
Just now, ouija ouija said:

. . . . . . . aaand we're straight back to phantasising! :lol: We can't do everything we want to do! 

Why not?  What is it that you want to do that you think you can't?

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Xeno-Fish
10 minutes ago, joc said:

Positive thinking is what happens naturally in your brain when you remove these words from you vocabulary and mind.

I can't do that ....is replaced with...I can do that.   I couldn't do that...becomes...I could do that. 

Just for myself the phrase "how can I" works better than "I can" because no matter how much I think I can fly, jumping out of a 10 story window won't make it so.

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jethrofloyd

Think realistically. Act positively. B)

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joc
1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Just for myself the phrase "how can I" works better than "I can"...

The default should be ...I can.   The phrase "How can I", is actually a question.  If we put the question 'before' the phrase..I can...then we are in danger of not thinking of a way how to do something and giving up.   By always positively affirming that we Can do a thing...the default question is then How.

Quote

...because no matter how much I think I can fly, jumping out of a 10 story window won't make it so.

Exactly what I'm talking about...I can fly out of a ten story window!  Next question:  How?  As opposed to: How can I fly out of a ten story window...oh yeah...I can't.

When we say Can...amazing things can happen...How, is just the inevitable next question to that phrase.   We have to put the horse 'in front' of the cart...because without the horse, the cart is pretty useless.

When we say ...I Can...How is the next question!

 

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joc
29 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Do you have that Pollyanna optimism Joc? 

I don't know what you mean.  What I do know is that ...Can't...is not a part of my vocabulary.

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joc

I agree with Ouija though...this is a good topic! 

I will be back to it when I return from work.  Even though my back is killing me and the piriformis muscle on the right side is spasming and I can barely walk...I am still going to work.

Guess why.   That's right, because...I can!  And...I will!

And I will make some money...and I will pay bills...and I will overcome the pain! Because I can!  :)

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Xeno-Fish
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, joc said:

I agree with Ouija though...this is a good topic! 

I will be back to it when I return from work.  Even though my back is killing me and the piriformis muscle on the right side is spasming and I can barely walk...I am still going to work.

Guess why.   That's right, because...I can!  And...I will!

And I will make some money...and I will pay bills...and I will overcome the pain! Because I can!  :)

I think it's more sheer determination than optimism.

Edited by XenoFish
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Xeno-Fish

Sorry joc. My default is 'how can I' as my job requires me to turn a 2 dimensional drawing into a physical 3d object. I'm a machinist. So how can I make a drawing into a real thing. 

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Crazy Horse
49 minutes ago, joc said:

Okay, as such, I am an expert in the realm of positive thinking.   Positive thinking has absolutely nothing  to do with fantasizing about the future.  

Therefore, her premise is completely wrong. Hence, she doesn't get what positive thinking is all about.

Again, this has nothing to do with positive thinking.   Our moment to moment default position should be Positive Thought process.  This is what creates happiness.   This is what creates contentment.

Positive thinking simply put is this:   Removing all negatives from our thought process.   If you think about the words that come out of your mouth, if you think about the words that form thoughts in your head, you will have more of an idea of how you actually think.  Most of us use words like Can't, Won't, Shouldn't, Wouldn't routinely in our thinking and speech.

Positive thinking is what happens naturally in your brain when you remove these words from you vocabulary and mind.

I can't do that ....is replaced with...I can do that.   I couldn't do that...becomes...I could do that. 

I agree, positive thinking is about the moment, and how one responds to undesirable circumstances.

And as for positively thinking for the future, that is very easy too,  It kind of just happens naturally without to much effort.

And why not?

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qxcontinuum
Posted (edited)

I think one who chooses to only think positive and distance himself or herself from "toxic personalities" is becoming an ignorant. 

Edited by qxcontinuum

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Crazy Horse
8 minutes ago, qxcontinuum said:

I think one who chooses to only think positive and distance himself or herself from "toxic personalities" is becoming an ignorant. 

Well that excludes anyone on these boards.

And by the way, there is nothing to stop an individual from looking at any kind of toxicity, and still remain positive.

its simply a matter of choice.

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Crazy Horse

Its a well known scientifically proven fact, that positive thinkers live longer.

Which is a good thing for most people.

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spartan max2
spartan max2
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Well that excludes anyone on these boards.

And by the way, there is nothing to stop an individual from looking at any kind of toxicity, and still remain positive.

its simply a matter of choice.

So your second post in this thread and you're already insulting people.

Very positive of you. Not toxic at all.

Edited by spartan max2
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Xeno-Fish

@spartan max2

It truly is interesting. Personally I think the more grounded you keep things the better. That whole "hope for the best, expect the worst" or in my case, prepare for the worst. 

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spartan max2
2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

From the article.

Quote

Even if more optimistic results about optimism eventually surface, a rosy outlook is unlikely to benefit everyone. Defensive pessimists, for example, tend to fret a great deal about upcoming stressors such as job interviews or major exams, and they overestimate their likelihood of failure. Yet this worrying works for these individuals, because it allows them to be better prepared. Work by Wellesley College psychologist Julie Norem and her colleagues shows that depriving defensive pessimists of their preferred coping style—for example, by forcing them to “cheer up”—leads them to perform worse on tasks. Moreover, in a 2001 study of elderly community participants, Seligman and Brandeis University psychologist Derek Isaacowitz found that pessimists were less prone to depression than were optimists after experiencing negative life events, such as the death of a friend. The pessimists had likely spent more time bracing themselves mentally for unpleasant possibilities.

I was going to link something on defensive pessimism but this quote seems to do the job. 

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