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Xeno-Fish

Positive Thinking is Overrated

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joc
51 minutes ago, Horta said:

When you hear the machine guns pinging the door on the landing craft, and knowing you'll have to make it a couple hundred yards through the water and across the beach when that door opens, that's not going to cause you any anxiety or fear. As you don't give in to hope, so you'll either make it or not, same with your friends.

I don't play out scenarios like movies in my mind.  That isn't reality.  I deal with reality..not fantasy.

1 hour ago, Horta said:

Now you're saying you would use "positive thinking" to replace one set of feelings with others that you find more palatable or "positive" (no repression though?). This quite obviously is also a crutch, lends itself to fantasy, and unlike simple hopes and aspirations, can simply amount to being in denial.

That is not what I said at all.  You just misunderstand what I did say.  First of all...thoughts are NOT feelings.  Feelings are a result of a chemical reaction in our brain because of the thoughts we have.  H U G E  difference.  

1 hour ago, Horta said:

Napoleon Hill? Thought you said you had nothing to do with self help charlatans?

Why do you think Napoleon Hill was a charlatan?  At this point I must conclude that you have no idea at all where I'm coming from.  What did Napoleon Hill ever say or do that would make you think he was a charlatan?  I really want to know.  What he did do was develop a philosophy on how to think and he shared it with the world in hopes that it would improve the lot in life for many of the truly depressed people in his time.  They didn't call it the depression for nothing you know.  If you want to know what I know...read the first chapter of Think and Grow Rich and then tell me how Napoleon Hill is a charlatan.  Otherwise...this conversation is  finished.

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Hammerclaw

Hope is a feeling, a fervent desire for something and nothing more. It's a quintessential emotional response to a fickle universe. What kind of human being doesn't have emotions, feelings, desires? I'd rather be such a person, than be so scared s#%tless of being disappointed I had no hope, at all.

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lightly
On March 13, 2021 at 5:32 AM, joc said:

 

My Dad just looked at me and said, "That car will never make it across the desert.  You will be lucky..Lucky...if youi break down in Midland Odessa...and then you'll be living in Midland working in the oil fields...for the rest of your life."   

I stayed in East Texas before I moved to Dallas in 1985.    After I thought about it, I decided he was probably right...but I wouldn't be lucky...My water pump would go out in the most desolate part of the desert.  He knew...he'd crossed that desert several times.  I'd only flown over it.   Risk Assessment!  

    We've crossed " that desert"  , twice a year , for 9 1/2 years now !    . Just gotta head Northeast in a couple weeks to make it an even 10 . :)  Know how we did it?   POSITIVE THINKING !        :P

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Hammerclaw
On 3/24/2021 at 10:58 PM, DingoLingo said:

the power of positive thinking is not over rated.. 

I am positive that I will annoy someone somehow today.. I am positive I will have a drink later this afternoon after I stab myself with a screw driver while installing a UHF radio in my car.. 

I'm positive, if I buy a box of Crackerjack, I'll get a box they didn't put a prize in.

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lightly
On March 25, 2021 at 6:06 AM, joc said:

I'm just going to say...uh...yeah man, you are absolutely right!  I was hoping beyond hope that I got that job because I desperately needed it.  If I didn't get it...I'd be in a pickle.  But that was 1985 too and I was 27 then and I'd only been reading Napoleon Hill's book for a few days.  So, they hired me...but it really didn't happen because I was 'hoping' it would.  It happened because I Thought Positive thoughts about it.   So...actually this is a really good illustration of what positive thinking actually is and why it is a good thing:

     Isn't hope and Positive thoughts ...basically,  the same thing?.  Everybody hopes...even you. .it's ok man.  :P

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joc
1 hour ago, lightly said:

     Isn't hope and Positive thoughts ...basically,  the same thing?.  Everybody hopes...even you. .it's ok man.  :P

 

1 hour ago, lightly said:

     Isn't hope and Positive thoughts ...basically,  the same thing?.  Everybody hopes...even you. .it's ok man.  :P

No, they are not the same things.  Hope is not a thought...it is a feeling.  Thoughts are not feelings.  Thoughts are 'things'.  Very powerful things.

I hope someone buys this thing I am selling   vs.   Here is my thought process on how I will create more sales.,

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joc
1 hour ago, lightly said:

    We've crossed " that desert"  , twice a year , for 9 1/2 years now !    . Just gotta head Northeast in a couple weeks to make it an even 10 . :)  Know how we did it?   POSITIVE THINKING !        :P

All the positive thinking in the world isn't going to keep an old heat pump in good working order.

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, lightly said:

    We've crossed " that desert"  , twice a year , for 9 1/2 years now !    . Just gotta head Northeast in a couple weeks to make it an even 10 . :)  Know how we did it?   POSITIVE THINKING !        :P

Do you get your car serviced first, make sure it is in top notch working order, do you have triple A for any unforeseen issues or do you just live on hope fumes and take  your chances? I am thinking the latter in your case Lightly, that there is most likely a lot of pragmatism in your hope. :P Personally, I would never embark across the desert without servicing my car making sure my tires are good etc 


In my understanding, this is what Joc is pointing out one would not just live on hope alone 9 times out of 10. 

 

Edited by Sherapy

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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)

There's positive thinking, hope and adequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. Then there's casting caution to the wind and playing Russian roulette with your life. The problem with that is Chance is a fickle mistress.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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lightly
6 hours ago, joc said:

All the positive thinking in the world isn't going to keep an old heat pump in good working order.

Yup, I know... that's why I also Hope Astro Girl keeps running.  Plus I  often give her gentle pats on her dashboard.  That has proven to be effective !    :lol:

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lightly
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Do you get your car serviced first, make sure it is in top notch working order, do you have triple A for any unforeseen issues or do you just live on hope fumes and take  your chances? I am thinking the latter in your case Lightly, that there is most likely a lot of pragmatism in your hope. :P Personally, I would never embark across the desert without servicing my car making sure my tires are good etc 


In my understanding, this is what Joc is pointing out one would not just live on hope alone 9 times out of 10. 

 

Well, 'Astro Girl' is a 2005 Chevy Van, with well over 100,000 miles on her..so I have to put some measure of faith in a little old fashioned positive thinking, and Hope,  and visit Dave the mechanic , to let him give her a look see, before we embark on our annual Oddesys.    :wub:

...and ,yup, we have Towing service, just in case.   We have had minor repairs done on our trips...luckily she made it there under her own power . :)

 

Edited by lightly
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docyabut2
Posted (edited)
On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2021 at 5:57 AM, Xeno-Fish said:

https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/bah-humbug-why-positive-thinking-is-overrated/

“So it seems that as pleasurable as these positive fantasies and daydreams are, and as good they are for exploring various possibilities in our futures, when it comes to implementing these wishes, they are actually really hurtful,” says Oettingen, who has written a book based on her research, Rethinking Positive Thinking.

“This is not only in the physical health domain, but also in psychological health. We find that the more people fantasise about a positive future, the less depressed they are at that moment but the more depressed they get over time.”

What Oettingen’s research shows is that when people are encouraged to daydream about something like landing a fantastic new job, or getting together with someone they have a crush on, they feel like they have already achieved their goal, so they relax. “These positive daydreams sap their energy and we need this energy to implement the dreams,” she says.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90575887/why-looking-on-the-bright-side-is-overrated

its all about a Unity student  that I`am to believe in a positive thinking  :) 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Church

 

Edited by docyabut2
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joc

I think a lot of people misunderstand the reasons why Thinking Positive is so important.    We do what we think we can do.  And positive thought process instills a set of memories of doing and being successful at things that build up in one's mind as a sort of portfolio of successes.  Ex: I did do that rather difficult thing and I was successful at it...so...I think I can do this difficult thing as well.

Happiness is found in doing not merely possessing.

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Hammerclaw

When I get the notion to take something broken apart, two out of three times, I manage to fix it, but only two out of three. I started taking an old 17" 32 bit Compaq laptop apart, the other day and got down to the point where I was beyond my expertise. Inside my head my thoughts reminded me of the tragic end of two other laptops that paid the ultimate price. So, I reversed course and reassembled it. It still works, even if the screen still flickers as if it's not making good contact with the motherboard. It was all for the best, since I was positive of more than a fifty percent chance of a negative outcome if I had proceeded. I suppose the moral of the story is that a pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist.:)

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DingoLingo
On 3/27/2021 at 7:19 AM, Horta said:

So to get this straight so far. Someone close to you that you love gets quite ill. You have no hopes that they recover. That's not a concern of yours as they either will or they won't. It's not something that bothers you, you don't worry or have any fears...

I dont :) .. 

I have a way of looking at life and living it.. 

Is there a Problem.. Yes or No.. if no then there is nothing to worry about.. if Yes go onto step two..

If Yes.. Can you fix it.. Yes or No.. If  Yes then Fix it!.. if No.. why worry about it because your not going to be able to fix it anyway.. 

been like this since I had my stroke :D .. (mind you the stroke has also got rid of my fight or flight reactions..)

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KNash

I think positive thinking has it's benefits depending on what it is. For example, if you're having a tough time with something, taking a moment to appreciate what is going well for you at the moment can help lift your spirits and foster perseverance and resilience. When it comes to fantasizing about something you want, maybe that does somehow take away from trying to achieve it. This is anecdotal, but I've known a lot of people who are the type to constantly fantasize about something they want to the point where it looks like they've put all their energy into the fantasy rather than into what they're trying to achieve. The best example I can think of are people who constantly post inspirational quotes or surround themselves with pictures and reminders of what they're working towards. In my experience, these are usually the people who give up first. Again, this is only based off my personal experience and I'm in no way saying that if you post inspirational quotes and what not then you're not serious about achieving your dreams. I'm sure there are people who do just that and get what they want!

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joc
1 hour ago, KNash said:

I think positive thinking has it's benefits depending on what it is. For example, if you're having a tough time with something, taking a moment to appreciate what is going well for you at the moment can help lift your spirits and foster perseverance and resilience. When it comes to fantasizing about something you want, maybe that does somehow take away from trying to achieve it. This is anecdotal, but I've known a lot of people who are the type to constantly fantasize about something they want to the point where it looks like they've put all their energy into the fantasy rather than into what they're trying to achieve. The best example I can think of are people who constantly post inspirational quotes or surround themselves with pictures and reminders of what they're working towards. In my experience, these are usually the people who give up first. Again, this is only based off my personal experience and I'm in no way saying that if you post inspirational quotes and what not then you're not serious about achieving your dreams. I'm sure there are people who do just that and get what they want!

Early on in my journey I had posted notes everywhere...anything I saw positive or inspirational went on a posted note.  On my refrigerator, on my walls, everywhere really.  The important thing to keep in mind is that by doing that you are reinforcing your memory with positives.  And...it only takes one negative thought to derail an entire positive thought train...which is why it is important to focus on positives...and delete the negatives from your mind and vocabulary....i.e. from your conscious thought process.

Have you ever not felt like going to work...kind of felt a bit ill...but no temperature or anything?   I have countless memories in my past where I started dwelling on those feelings...reinforced by times I really was sick and called in and they were like, Well, don't come in if you feel bad.  

Now, if I don't want to go to work I just say I Do want to go to work, I Do want to go to work...and I always go to work...unless I really am sick.

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, KNash said:

I think positive thinking has it's benefits depending on what it is. For example, if you're having a tough time with something, taking a moment to appreciate what is going well for you at the moment can help lift your spirits and foster perseverance and resilience. When it comes to fantasizing about something you want, maybe that does somehow take away from trying to achieve it. This is anecdotal, but I've known a lot of people who are the type to constantly fantasize about something they want to the point where it looks like they've put all their energy into the fantasy rather than into what they're trying to achieve. The best example I can think of are people who constantly post inspirational quotes or surround themselves with pictures and reminders of what they're working towards. In my experience, these are usually the people who give up first. Again, this is only based off my personal experience and I'm in no way saying that if you post inspirational quotes and what not then you're not serious about achieving your dreams. I'm sure there are people who do just that and get what they want!

This is a good point, in my youth when I started out as a salon owner doing hair, I would use poster boards to paste groups of people aka future clients and then I would give my cards out everywhere,  I went to clubs, all kinds of events, Any chance I had I was my own public relations and this was part of  marketing myself, on slow days I would get on the phone and call clients. The visualization board worked to remind and inspire me to hustle. I even took a course on how to market myself too. Had I not have done the leg work too I would not have build my clientele on visualization alone. 

Edited by Sherapy
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Desertrat56
16 hours ago, KNash said:

I think positive thinking has it's benefits depending on what it is. For example, if you're having a tough time with something, taking a moment to appreciate what is going well for you at the moment can help lift your spirits and foster perseverance and resilience. When it comes to fantasizing about something you want, maybe that does somehow take away from trying to achieve it. This is anecdotal, but I've known a lot of people who are the type to constantly fantasize about something they want to the point where it looks like they've put all their energy into the fantasy rather than into what they're trying to achieve. The best example I can think of are people who constantly post inspirational quotes or surround themselves with pictures and reminders of what they're working towards. In my experience, these are usually the people who give up first. Again, this is only based off my personal experience and I'm in no way saying that if you post inspirational quotes and what not then you're not serious about achieving your dreams. I'm sure there are people who do just that and get what they want!

I have known people like that and they often express feelings of betrayal by the universe or what ever deity they expect to change everything, when in fact they are the ones keeping themselves from achieving what they want.   I could sit in my living room and meditate and imagine what kinds of changes I need and want to make all day long and nothing gets done, the imagination is useful only when it is accompanied by action.  Meditation is useful to clear your mind and get a grip on reality, it will never change your physical reality without your help.

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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

I have known people like that and they often express feelings of betrayal by the universe or what ever deity they expect to change everything, when in fact they are the ones keeping themselves from achieving what they want.   I could sit in my living room and meditate and imagine what kinds of changes I need and want to make all day long and nothing gets done, the imagination is useful only when it is accompanied by action.  Meditation is useful to clear your mind and get a grip on reality, it will never change your physical reality without your help.

Exactly!

 

Well said.

 

 

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KNash
19 hours ago, Sherapy said:

This is a good point, in my youth when I started out as a salon owner doing hair, I would use poster boards to paste groups of people aka future clients and then I would give my cards out everywhere,  I went to clubs, all kinds of events, Any chance I had I was my own public relations and this was part of  marketing myself, on slow days I would get on the phone and call clients. The visualization board worked to remind and inspire me to hustle. I even took a course on how to market myself too. Had I not have done the leg work too I would not have build my clientele on visualization alone. 

Absolutely! I definitely think positive and inspirational things can be used to help someone achieve their goals. I wish I had been more specific in my original comment about positive stuff. You used your board to not only remind yourself of your goals, but you used it to keep track of future clients you wanted to get. The board sounds like it had a practical purpose that could be incorporated into achieving your dream.

In my original comment, I should have been more specific and said posting stuff like, "Reach for the stars!", "Future (insert career title here)", were the inspirational/positive things I was talking about. However, if someone finds them helpful, then great! I'm aware that my opinion is just that, an opinion. ^_^

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KNash
7 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I have known people like that and they often express feelings of betrayal by the universe or what ever deity they expect to change everything, when in fact they are the ones keeping themselves from achieving what they want.   I could sit in my living room and meditate and imagine what kinds of changes I need and want to make all day long and nothing gets done, the imagination is useful only when it is accompanied by action.  Meditation is useful to clear your mind and get a grip on reality, it will never change your physical reality without your help.

You make a good point. Going off that, I've also known people who believe that if something is meant to happen then it will no matter what. Personally, I think that's a toxic way of thinking because it excuses a person from putting in the effort they should. Even when someone puts in a lot of effort and things don't pan out, that's okay. Things happen. At that point, if possible, you keep trying.

I like the idea of meditation to visualize the things you need to change in order to achieve your goals. It's purposeful and doesn't just make you feel better in the moment. I should try it.

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Sherapy
11 minutes ago, KNash said:

Absolutely! I definitely think positive and inspirational things can be used to help someone achieve their goals. I wish I had been more specific in my original comment about positive stuff. You used your board to not only remind yourself of your goals, but you used it to keep track of future clients you wanted to get. The board sounds like it had a practical purpose that could be incorporated into achieving your dream.

In my original comment, I should have been more specific and said posting stuff like, "Reach for the stars!", "Future (insert career title here)", were the inspirational/positive things I was talking about. However, if someone finds them helpful, then great! I'm aware that my opinion is just that, an opinion. ^_^

Your post was perfect as it was you are right on affirmations and quotes alone they are incomplete. It is a much needed reminder for us all. :wub:

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Mr Walker
On 3/8/2021 at 11:06 PM, ouija ouija said:

. . . . . . . aaand we're straight back to phantasising! :lol: We can't do everything we want to do! 

But we can give it a go,  and that is the fun of it.

If you never have a go, you will never know  what you  can achieve. 

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