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Mississippi ban transgender women from sports


Eldorado

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Men who take all the hormones and such still have a testosterone level many times greater than a natural born woman. Still have far greater bone density, and muscle mass ect. 
 

It won’t be till the children who have been exposed and subjected to this since before puberty could it be even close to considered fair.  And that just brings on a whole other disaster. 

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14 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I remember a movie from the '90s... Soul Man, where the young fellow used a skin pigmentation pill to go to college as a black man, using a black scholarship. Some people will try anything.

I do think that Tatetopa is basically right in that our society has not yet got so depraved that such would be common. We're heading toward lawlessness, but we're not there yet.

Republicans will get into office, as the tides always turn, and push back so progressives don't go too far too fast. Things just about balance in the longer term.

Won't work at UPenn though, will it?

Edited by Golden Duck
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On 3/26/2022 at 11:34 PM, DieChecker said:

Taking the treatments has long wait time for any results, and other treatments can be planned medically, but not completed, and that would still count.

Is there some threshold of time necessary to be trans in order to be considered a woman, rather then a man? I believe just the declaring of such is reason for immediate protections.

So, theoretically, Dave (to just use a name) fails to make mens varsity, or junior varsity, basketball at his high school. So he declares himself a girl now, tries out for womens basketball and makes the varsity team. Plays the season and then declares he's not a girl anymore. Where would consequences come up in that scenario? How long does he have to wait before declaring he's a girl and trying out for the girls team??

Should there be a consequence if the person doesn't continue with the lifestyle? Like what though. And would that confuse/discourage other trans players?

Why do it? Scholarships for one. Having a free ride at a state university, rather then paying tens of thousands of dollars. No brainer. Plus, you don't have to say you were just kidding. You could just say you were confused, or in a phase if life, and phased back. Gender Fluid is now supposed to be a real thing.

I'm going to step in as someone who has several friends who are trans, including someone going through the transition right now.  It's taken her several years and a lot of preparation to start the transformation.

Dave (in your example) can't go out for a women's team as a woman.  Putting on a dress and calling yourself "Davina" does not make you a woman, though it does make you someone who's doing "drag" rather badly.  The minute someone says "show me your drivers' license" and it says "male", we all know you're just pretending to be trans.

And no reliable medical professional simply hands out hormone treatments on a whim.

Generally someone who transitions has gone through a years-long process, including entering safe spaces (often at something like a science fiction convention or Furry convention) while temporarily presenting as their preferred gender.  This includes purchasing and making special body modifications clothing such as breast binders, shapewear, corsets, "gaffs" (underwear for males transitioning) and more.  Most physicians will also insist on consultations with psychiatrists who will make certain that you're really transitioning rather than just escaping.  THEN you can get hormones (and it takes several years to get the right result).

Your friends (I've done this) will be a support system and poke you if you're giving the wrong physical cues for your preferred gender.

Ah... and laser treatments for unwanted hair.

Then you start reassigning your identity and getting rid of your "dead name" on every single piece of legal paper, including your social security (if applicable in your country) and modified birth certificate as well as things like marriage license (if you're married), car titles, etc, etc.

THEN you can show up at a women's event and announce you're a woman and want to play that sport if your hormone levels are within medical guidelines.

 

Otherwise, you're just cosplaying and doing it rather badly.

And howcome nobody ever discusses women transitioning into men in these discussions?  I know two who have done this, and very successfully.

Edited by Kenemet
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9 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Men who take all the hormones and such still have a testosterone level many times greater than a natural born woman. Still have far greater bone density, and muscle mass ect. 
 

It won’t be till the children who have been exposed and subjected to this since before puberty could it be even close to considered fair.  And that just brings on a whole other disaster. 

Sports authorities have medical tests that limit competition based on hormones and it's known that trans women competing in men's sports may need to have additional androgen-suppressing therapies in order to establish and maintain a certain (low) level of testosterone and (higher) estrogen) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8279075/

And it changes performance: https://www.shape.com/lifestyle/mind-and-body/how-does-transitioning-affect-transgender-athletes-sports-performance

This isn't something that happens with one pill or shot or wearing a cute dress for a week.

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1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

Sports authorities have medical tests that limit competition based on hormones and it's known that trans women competing in men's sports may need to have additional androgen-suppressing therapies in order to establish and maintain a certain (low) level of testosterone and (higher) estrogen) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8279075/

And it changes performance: https://www.shape.com/lifestyle/mind-and-body/how-does-transitioning-affect-transgender-athletes-sports-performance

This isn't something that happens with one pill or shot or wearing a cute dress for a week.

According to Caitlyn Jenner she won't enter women's charity golf tournaments because even though she has no testosterone she can still drive the ball 100 meters further than the competition. Current hormone levels are not a fair indicator.  Trans women are going to have to accept that there is a difference between them and those born female.  It's not fair to ask those born female to sacrifice on behalf of the trans community, areas, rights and activities their gender has fought centuries to have just to satisfy the emotions of those not born women.  Trans people in sports will have to find a different solution for their issue.

Edited by OverSword
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21 minutes ago, OverSword said:

According to Caitlyn Jenner she won't enter women's charity golf tournaments because even though she has no testosterone she can still drive the ball 100 meters further than the competition. Current hormone levels are not a fair indicator.  Trans women are going to have to accept that there is a difference between them and those born female.  It's not fair to ask those born female sacrifice on behalf of the trans community, areas, rights and activities their gender has fought centuries to have just to satisfy the emotions of those not born women.  Trans people in sports will have to find a different solution for their issue.

I'm female.

Not sure what I'm sacrificing when my female friends who are trans show up.  

Perhaps you could explain to me what rights I lose when Diane is around?

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15 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Not sure what I'm sacrificing when my female friends who are trans show up.  

 

Sure, it doesn't directly affect you.  How about the women that compete in sports in a capacity other than as a hobby?  They are competing for spaces on a female teams with limited positions available only to the top competitors.  They are competing for a limited amount of scholarships so that they can exchange their athletic abilities to pay for their education.  

Edited by OverSword
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Also, if you're into "YOU MUST USE YOUR BIRTH ASSIGNED GENDER IN SPORTS(ETC)"...

how do you feel about this person competing in women's sports (trans activist Buck Angel) and wandering into women's locker rooms?
Buck Angel Headshot.jpg

I think it would be pretty disconcerting to most women, frankly.

 

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12 minutes ago, OverSword said:

That's a pretty dumb thing to say, forgive me for making that observation.  Sure, it's doesn't directly affect you.  How about the women that compete in sports in a capacity other than as a hobby?  They are competing for spaces on a female teams with limited positions available only to the top competitors.  They are competing for a limited amount of scholarships so that they can exchange their athletic abilities to pay for their education.  

I can speak a bit about this, since I fenced competitively and won a local title for fencing (ditto in chess, by the way.)

Humans exist on a spectrum.  Even fencing against men (back in those dark ages it was generally a 'no-no' - we weren't even supposed to fence against them in class or practice.  You could practice with a male coach but as a woman you had to have a female partner.  Yeah.  Dark Ages of last century.), I could still beat them with their greater strength and longer arm reach.  In fact, I managed to not only beat but run a couple of them off the strip (with a sequence of fast lunges coupled with a nice feint and an attack) when I was pregnant.  I don't see them as much of a threat.

In addition, in order to compete they have to spend years making the transition and then do a lot of expensive hormone treatments, legal wrangling, and wardrobe buying just to get a chance... at a scholarship? 

Heck, they'd save a ton of money by just paying for their education themselves.  Less hassle, less stress.

And if they can't compete against their own gender, they're not likely that good against another gender. 

These athletes speak about their experience (short article, summarizing and a few quotes.  Interesting photos.) https://www.thesportster.com/entertainment/top-15-famous-transgender-athletes/

 

Edited by Kenemet
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2 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

I can speak a bit about this, since I fenced competitively and won a local title for fencing (ditto in chess, by the way.)

Humans exist on a spectrum.  Even fencing against men (back in those dark ages it was generally a 'no-no'), I could still beat them with their greater strength and longer arm reach.  In fact, I managed to not only beat but run a couple of them off the strip (with a sequence of fast lunges coupled with a nice feint and an attack) when I was pregnant.  I don't see them as much of a threat.

In addition, in order to compete they have to spend years making the transition and then do a lot of expensive hormone treatments, legal wrangling, and wardrobe buying just to get a chance... at a scholarship? 

Heck, they'd save a ton of money by just paying for their education themselves.  Less hassle, less stress.

And if they can't compete against their own gender, they're not likely that good against another gender. 

These athletes speak about their experience (short article, summarizing and a few quotes.  Interesting photos.) https://www.thesportster.com/entertainment/top-15-famous-transgender-athletes/

 

Fencing and chess, and even tennis, are different than swimming, running,  lifting weights, and a lot of other sports that actually make money with competitions.  How much money is there in fencing competitions?   When kids are under 16 some girls are even good enough to compete with boys on soccer teams, but adults are different.   

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18 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

I can speak a bit about this, since I fenced competitively and won a local title for fencing (ditto in chess, by the way.)

Humans exist on a spectrum.  Even fencing against men (back in those dark ages it was generally a 'no-no' - we weren't even supposed to fence against them in class or practice.  You could practice with a male coach but as a woman you had to have a female partner.  Yeah.  Dark Ages of last century.), I could still beat them with their greater strength and longer arm reach.  In fact, I managed to not only beat but run a couple of them off the strip (with a sequence of fast lunges coupled with a nice feint and an attack) when I was pregnant.  I don't see them as much of a threat.

In addition, in order to compete they have to spend years making the transition and then do a lot of expensive hormone treatments, legal wrangling, and wardrobe buying just to get a chance... at a scholarship? 

Heck, they'd save a ton of money by just paying for their education themselves.  Less hassle, less stress.

And if they can't compete against their own gender, they're not likely that good against another gender. 

These athletes speak about their experience (short article, summarizing and a few quotes.  Interesting photos.) https://www.thesportster.com/entertainment/top-15-famous-transgender-athletes/

 

Has Lia done all that.   She was just a middle of the pack swimmer on the men's team and now she is breaking records in the women's swimming.   Biologically born males have a huge advantage in most sports against biologically born females.  

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Is this about sports, and scholarships?  Is it about parents pushing their kids and structuring their lives around the .1% chance of an athletic scholarship?  The same amount of work would lead to other scholarships if applied in another direction.  Is it about who gets the money from women's sports, the cuteness factor?  Hint, it is not the women competing. 

Sports competitions and scholarships are not that hard to solve.   Is there a larger issue?  Somehow I don't think it is just a philanthropic desire for universal fairness, but maybe that is what some are arguing for.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Sure, it doesn't directly affect you.  How about the women that compete in sports in a capacity other than as a hobby?  They are competing for spaces on a female teams with limited positions available only to the top competitors.  They are competing for a limited amount of scholarships so that they can exchange their athletic abilities to pay for their education.  

Which scholarship did Lia Thomas receive?

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14 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Which scholarship did Lia Thomas receive?

Which born female didn't make the team due to Lea Thomas?  This is not only about that one swimmer.

Edited by OverSword
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1 hour ago, Myles said:

Has Lia done all that.   She was just a middle of the pack swimmer on the men's team and now she is breaking records in the women's swimming.   Biologically born males have a huge advantage in most sports against biologically born females.  

Lia Thomas was sixth fastest in the NCAA as a male freshman.  That's not middle of the pack for the UPenn.

Swimmers are meant to improve over their college careers.

In her controversial win Lia Thomas was eight seconds slower than Katie Ledeckies record.

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7 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Which born female didn't make the team due to Lea Thomas?  This is not only about that one swimmer.

True story. It's not about any Ivy League swimmer.

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22 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

In her controversial win Lia Thomas was eight seconds slower than Katie Ledeckies record.

Because she slowed down to avoid being so flagrant about how much faster she is than actual women.

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2 hours ago, OverSword said:

According to Caitlyn Jenner she won't enter women's charity golf tournaments because even though she has no testosterone she can still drive the ball 100 meters further than the competition. Current hormone levels are not a fair indicator.  Trans women are going to have to accept that there is a difference between them and those born female.  It's not fair to ask those born female to sacrifice on behalf of the trans community, areas, rights and activities their gender has fought centuries to have just to satisfy the emotions of those not born women.  Trans people in sports will have to find a different solution for their issue.

https://golf.com/news/caitlyn-jenner-holes-out-for-eagle-at-ana-inspiration-pro-am/

The average pro drives about 100 yards further than the average amatuer.

Records for longest drive are unusual.  The disparity between men and women seems a lot more than 12 per cent.

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7 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Because she slowed down to avoid being so flagrant about how much faster she is than actual women.

How do you confirm a fact like that when it's only uttered by biased commentators?

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4 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

How do you confirm a fact like that when it's only uttered by biased commentators?

Because she does faster in practice

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9 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

https://golf.com/news/caitlyn-jenner-holes-out-for-eagle-at-ana-inspiration-pro-am/

The average pro drives about 100 yards further than the average amatuer.

Records for longest drive are unusual.  The disparity between men and women seems a lot more than 12 per cent.

And Caitlyn is a former Olympian so probably on a different level than most celebrities, especially women, when it comes to hitting a golf ball far.

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21 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Because she slowed down to avoid being so flagrant about how much faster she is than actual women.

I can't believe that actually has to be said, like it's not obvious.

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17 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And Caitlyn is a former Olympian so probably on a different level than most celebrities, especially women, when it comes to hitting a golf ball far.

I can't find Jenner's score for that round.  An eagle suggests some long hitting.  Jenner has a handicap of six after transitioning and says their putting has improved with a larger chest.

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1 minute ago, Golden Duck said:

I can't find Jenner's score for that round.  An eagle suggests some long hitting.  Jenner has a handicap of six after transitioning and says their putting has improved with a larger chest.

In or out of heels? :D

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32 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Because she does faster in practice

Yeah, and the same thing was said about Kieran Perkins and Ian Thorpe.

How do you go about proving such a thing?

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