History of the Swastika

[geggy6010]

Hi all. This is really a carry over from a FaceBook discussion. I'm on several modelmaking pages and someone mentioned AGAIN, (ithis comes up at least once a month somewhere!), that FB was censoring swastikas, and as usual this kicked off the whole "hiding history" thing. I chucked in my tuppenny'urth about having to photoshop the dreaded S word from stuff I post to my FB page and added a couple of instances I knew of, before it was subverted by the Nazi party. I know of several instances predating the 1930's use by the Germans. There was a US National Guard unit that had it as it's symbol, taken from the local Native American tribe, who had used it for hundreds, maybe thousands, of years before; they changed it, when the Nazi's came to power. Apparently there was a gold mining company in the US in the 1800's that used it as a letterhead, and it was identical to the Nazi one, same rotation, etc. In Portsmouth Guildhall, there's a huge painting, ( I saw it around 50yrs ago), which had a swastika on it; I remember asking the guide about it and he said that everyone asked about it! He added it was an Indian good luck symbol and the painting was a couple of hundred years old. Finland used the symbol for centuries as well. Sanskrit, which predates all of this has it, the Norse used it and the Buddhists and Jains have used it for millenia. And all this got me thinking...HOW did this sign turn up all round the world, among people who had no contact with each other? Well. No contact as far as I know, at least.

[TigerBright19]

28 minutes ago, geggy6010 said:

Hi all. This is really a carry over from a FaceBook discussion. I'm on several modelmaking pages and someone mentioned AGAIN, (ithis comes up at least once a month somewhere!), that FB was censoring swastikas, and as usual this kicked off the whole "hiding history" thing. I chucked in my tuppenny'urth about having to photoshop the dreaded S word from stuff I post to my FB page and added a couple of instances I knew of, before it was subverted by the Nazi party. I know of several instances predating the 1930's use by the Germans. There was a US National Guard unit that had it as it's symbol, taken from the local Native American tribe, who had used it for hundreds, maybe thousands, of years before; they changed it, when the Nazi's came to power. Apparently there was a gold mining company in the US in the 1800's that used it as a letterhead, and it was identical to the Nazi one, same rotation, etc. In Portsmouth Guildhall, there's a huge painting, ( I saw it around 50yrs ago), which had a swastika on it; I remember asking the guide about it and he said that everyone asked about it! He added it was an Indian good luck symbol and the painting was a couple of hundred years old. Finland used the symbol for centuries as well. Sanskrit, which predates all of this has it, the Norse used it and the Buddhists and Jains have used it for millenia. And all this got me thinking...HOW did this sign turn up all round the world, among people who had no contact with each other? Well. No contact as far as I know, at least.

It used to be a good luck charm.  I know it was fashionable for ladies to wear them in the 1900's - 1920's, and the symbol was used in many old newspaper advertisements.  My local city had a jewellery shop around 1910 (Jewish run) which had a swastika as their trademark symbol in the newspapers.  It was a popular symbol that many customs adopted probably since ancient Greek times.  I know it is very popular in Finland.  There are swastikas everywhere.  I think it is still part of their national emblem.  A quick google images search for 'Finland swastikas' reveals how popular it still is over there.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by TigerBright19

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

It’s a easy shape to make, all it takes is six straight lines. It’s a square with a cross in it and some lines removed. It was so common prior to the 1930s because of that ease of creation, anyone doodling with shaped would evwntuslly hit upon it.

[+Desertrat56]

What is called the swastika now was a symbol used by the natives in the southwest U.S. hundreds of years ago.

https://messieraz.com/the-use-of-the-swastika-symbol-in-american-indian-art/

https://infinityexplorers.com/swastika-the-12000-years-old-history-of-one-of-the-most-powerful-symbol

 

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

The swastika is an old Sanskrit symbol, What ze Germans did was to take the swastika and slant it so that it resamblance a moving wheel. For those who don't know much about the history of the symbols Nazi Germany used I (or those who are interested in history ) I suggest you take a look at this vid. 

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by 'Walt' E. Kurtz

[Trelane]

Also this explaining the Buddhist meanings of a variation of the symbol;

https://www.lionsroar.com/226988-2/

[Golden Duck]

Origin

late 19th century: from Sanskrit svastika, from svasti ‘well-being’, from su ‘good’ + asti ‘being

[Piney]

1 hour ago, geggy6010 said:

HOW did this sign turn up all round the world, among people who had no contact with each other? Well. No contact as far as I know, at least.

It's a Proto-Indo-European symbol used by the Yamnaya Culture and spread to Asia and Europe by their descendants. It was probably developed independently in the Americas. 

[SHaYap]

The curious about it is not the design, the funny thing is how it all seems to symbolize the same meanings, generally speaking, even for the Nazi Party ... 

~

[TigerBright19]

Is Germany the only country to ban them?  I heard that many popular video games that are imported into Germany have to be censored to remove swastikas that feature in WW2 themed games.  I have one called War Leaders: Clash of Nations, and the German version has replaced Hitler and removed all swastikas from the game.  I wonder if it is a criminal offense in Germany to play non-censored games?

 

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by TigerBright19

[Abramelin]

57 minutes ago, Piney said:

It's a Proto-Indo-European symbol used by the Yamnaya Culture and spread to Asia and Europe by their descendants. It was probably developed independently in the Americas. 

 It's even thousands of years older than the Yamnaya culture:

https://www.omniglot.com/writing/vinca.htm

Quote:

The Vinča symbols have been found on many of the artefacts excavated from sites in southeast Europe, in particular from Vinča near Belgrade, but also in Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, eastern Hungary, Moldova, southern Ukraine and the former Yugoslavia. The artefacts date from between the 7th and 4th millennia BC and those decorated with these symbols are between 8,000 and 6,500 years old.

Example:

 

Edit:

The symbols (script?) were used by the Cucuteni-Trypilla culture.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Abramelin

[SHaYap]

53 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Cucuteni-Trypilla

I wonder if they had a little Adolf of their own... 

~

[Silver]

3 hours ago, TigerBright19 said:

Is Germany the only country to ban them?  I heard that many popular video games that are imported into Germany have to be censored to remove swastikas that feature in WW2 themed games.  I have one called War Leaders: Clash of Nations, and the German version has replaced Hitler and removed all swastikas from the game.  I wonder if it is a criminal offense in Germany to play non-censored games?

 

 

 

 

No it is not: Germany lifts total ban on Nazi symbols in video games - BBC News

[Silver]

5 hours ago, geggy6010 said:

Hi all. This is really a carry over from a FaceBook discussion. I'm on several modelmaking pages and someone mentioned AGAIN, (ithis comes up at least once a month somewhere!), that FB was censoring swastikas, and as usual this kicked off the whole "hiding history" thing. I chucked in my tuppenny'urth about having to photoshop the dreaded S word from stuff I post to my FB page and added a couple of instances I knew of, before it was subverted by the Nazi party. I know of several instances predating the 1930's use by the Germans. There was a US National Guard unit that had it as it's symbol, taken from the local Native American tribe, who had used it for hundreds, maybe thousands, of years before; they changed it, when the Nazi's came to power. Apparently there was a gold mining company in the US in the 1800's that used it as a letterhead, and it was identical to the Nazi one, same rotation, etc. In Portsmouth Guildhall, there's a huge painting, ( I saw it around 50yrs ago), which had a swastika on it; I remember asking the guide about it and he said that everyone asked about it! He added it was an Indian good luck symbol and the painting was a couple of hundred years old. Finland used the symbol for centuries as well. Sanskrit, which predates all of this has it, the Norse used it and the Buddhists and Jains have used it for millenia. And all this got me thinking...HOW did this sign turn up all round the world, among people who had no contact with each other? Well. No contact as far as I know, at least.

What an interesting question!

Desertrat56  give a couple of links, one of which gives the various civilizations that adopted it (Swastika: The 12,000 Years old History of one of the most powerful symbol - Infinity Explorers), but the article doesn't explain why the symbol was so widely adopted as a positive symbol. 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by ted hughes

[acute]

I blame Prince Philip. 

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, ted hughes said:

What an interesting question!

Desertrat56  give a couple of links, one of which gives the various civilizations that adopted it (Swastika: The 12,000 Years old History of one of the most powerful symbol - Infinity Explorers), but the article doesn't explain why the symbol was so widely adopted as a positive symbol. 

 

That pattern on the mammoth tusk is not really a swastika:

 

[Silver]

3 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

That pattern on the mammoth tusk is not really a swastika:

 

Did you think I said it was? I've never seen that pic before.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, ted hughes said:

What an interesting question!

Desertrat56  give a couple of links, one of which gives the various civilizations that adopted it (Swastika: The 12,000 Years old History of one of the most powerful symbol - Infinity Explorers), but the article doesn't explain why the symbol was so widely adopted as a positive symbol. 

 

As a positive symbol? Are all the angles not right-ways facing? It could be as simple as “right, good. Left, bad”. 

[Silver]

3 minutes ago, President Wearer of Hats said:

As a positive symbol? Are all the angles not right-ways facing? It could be as simple as “right, good. Left, bad”. 

TBH, I know little about swastikas and care less. I was impressed by the OP wondering why the symbol was so ubiquitous, which is curious I think. I've always assumed it was a positive symbol or charm of some sort until it was hijacked by the Nazis. I'd be interested if you had more info on it.

[Abramelin]

45 minutes ago, ted hughes said:

Did you think I said it was? I've never seen that pic before.

It's from the link in your former post, and it is supposed to be an example of a 12,000 yrs old swastika.

[Silver]

4 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

It's from the link in your former post, and it is supposed to be an example of a 12,000 yrs old swastika.

I never read it all. I thought the link would explain why the symbol was so widely adopted, but it didn't, so I stopped reading.

It doesn't look like a swastika, unless that is the author's point, that they are diverse.

Edited March 13, 2021 by ted hughes

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, ted hughes said:

I never read it all. I thought the link would explain why the symbol was so widely adopted, but it didn't, so I stopped reading.

It doesn't look like a swastika, unless that is the author's point, that they are diverse.

I think the author's point was to indicate how old the symbol actually is. But it is not 12,000 years old, despite the text below the photo that says,

Swastika pattern on a mammoth bone bracelet from Mizyn

I think the claim was kind of sensationalist, so that's why I read it all.

[Stiff]

It was also used in games in more recent years. It's a rare collectors edition so nigh on impossible to find.

 

 

[Piney]

11 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

What is called the swastika now was a symbol used by the natives in the southwest U.S. hundreds of years ago.

Do you remember hearing about when they were destroying all the tack and clothing with it on it and the Navajo declaring it corrupted? 

I know a Texas rancher who owns a pair of Buermann spurs they missed that are worth thousands. 

['Walt' E. Kurtz]

 

seig heil arm salute:" look my German Shepherd can jump this high."