Visual Reorientation Illusions (VRIs)

[Hugh]

Have you ever found that your whole world has been “turned around” to a way that you normally don’t see it? It may happen when you come up from a subway or out from a movie theatre. It feels strange... like being in a parallel universe!

It has been happening to me since childhood and I am fascinated by the experience.

Normally for me, everything flips back to how I normally see it automatically, but for some, they get “stuck” in that alternate viewpoint and can’t get out.

The VRI flips are usually 90 or 180 degrees around.

Here is an example of a 180 degree VRI in a movie theatre.

You stay in the same theatre while it gets turned around facing the opposite direction!

This happens to a lot of people while watching a movie and when they exit the theatre they start walking in the opposite direction for the exit, but then they realize it’s the opposite direction they should be going!

I have always found VRIs to be fun and cool, and I have learned that I can consciously initiate them.

My favourite place to “turn the world around” to its four possible viewpoints is in a movie theatre for fun.

I have learned that VRIs are caused by Head Direction cell firing in the brain.

What I’ve always wondered is if there could be any explanation for them that involves the possible existence of higher dimensional space.

The fact that one can see the same object from different directions to me points to the possibility that those other directions actually exist in space.

There is a YouTube channel, a Facebook group and numerous threads I have started on various forums over the years discussing VRIs if you want to read more about them.

It would be awesome to hear of others that experience this phenomenon.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Hugh

[bison]

Yes, Hugh, I have also experienced this curious 'turned around' sensation occasionally, since childhood. Given that a few people to whom I've described this experience seem already familiar with it, i surmise that it probably isn't rare.

 I've heard it said that this can be caused by a change in some visual detail, in an otherwise familiar setting.  I found this experience quite disturbing in my younger days, but tend to take it in stride now. It usually passes fairly quickly. The sense of visual disorientation is never so confounding that I couldn't continue to find my way about, or return home. It's both subtle and dramatic at the same time, if that makes any sense.

I believe this sort of experience may fall under the classification of 'jamais vu' French for 'not seen before'.  Something that should look familiar, suddenly doesn't. This could be a form of memory illusion, and the opposite of the more familiar 'deja vu' ,where some novel situation or experience gets confused in the mind with something familiar. It's also considered a rather uncanny experience.

[Hugh]

Great to hear that you experience this too, bison!

I think that most people experience it at times but it can be subtle so people just think they are confused for a bit.

It passes fairly quickly for me too usually, with my brain flipping everything “back to normal” automatically.

Have you ever been able to control it? Have you ever attempted to flip things around at will?

The first time I ever did I had come home from school and I was exploring around my home which was in a new cool orientation. It flipped back to normal and I was saddened because I liked the different viewpoint better. While it was still fresh in my mind, I focused and made it flip back to the cool way! I was so happy that I had learned that I could control it!

[Hugh]

Here how some others have described the experience:
 

Andrew:

"I tried thousands of times to explain this to my parents and friends when I was a kid but no one else could understand. I eventually trained myself to control it by visualizing how the world would look if I turned it 90 degrees, and lately it doesn't happen to me unless I "turn it on." This is so incredible."

roy:

"I have a very similar problem and have a better way to explain this shift, 90deg or 180. I would like to draw this but will pen it instead. Suppose I was driving to my home horizontally on this board, from the left side to the right (ie heading east), and my home was on the next right turn, facing east, assuming north is up.

I would normally take a right turn and enter my gate, heading in the westerly direction. Lets suppose this is how my brain had oriented my home position.

Now, lets suppose, I was being driven by someone and I dozed off while heading east , prior to taking the right turn. When the car stopped, all i remember is we went straight, as I was not conscious to the right turn. Now when the car stops in front of my home, my house happens to be facing south as I made no turns. Now everything has shifted by 90 degrees. Similarly , if there were 2 right turns, which i was not conscious off, the shift would be 180 degrees.

In this situation, I have to stop and close my eyes and re-orient my self to the 90deg shift and soon, all falls back into place. If you agree and see what I am getting at and if you experience a similar shift, please let me know.

I can also tell you how I deal with this problem and I am now so good at directions. However, I do get disoriented when malls or other places are not sharp 90 degree bends but tend to branch off at an angel."

badenver:

"Wow - this happened to me only once and at age 18. It was terrifying because it happened with my eyes wide open. Walking down the street with 2 friends right outside my house, I suddenly felt lost and disoreiented although I had a clear sense of where I was, somewhere in my neighbourhood and that I was walking. It was just that the scenery had completely shifted...it was a 180 degree turn, where by I knew I was still walking in the same direction I had been before the shift but the path before me felt like it had moved behind me. But not only that, everything felt inverted too. I was completely turned around and terrified. I actually stopped and tried to explain all this to my 2 friends who were just bewildered. I tried to reason out my bearings trying to pinpoint actual landmarks and where they should be, but where they were now... In addition, I had lost all sense of distance and depth, and as I stood on that path trying to understand what had happened, trying to gauge the distance from me to my house and even which way exactly I should be heading, was it forward or backword?....and still unable to feel certain, I was so terrified that all I could do was sit and cry right there on that path. Eventually, I gave in and allowed my friends to lead me home, I just put one foot in front of the other where ever they led me but without any sense of where I was headed, crying with every step. As soon as I reached the gate to our house, and only when I was close enough to touch the actual gate, did I finally feel a sense of place and depth and prespective. What a terrifying experience.....it was like being in the twilight zone, truly, it was like entering a whole new dimension where everything looks the same but feels different and is in a different place.... in my case the terror was from being completely helpless to anchor the scene before me and to make sense of it all...

I just can't imagine how these folks, Sharon as a liitle child....how tough these experiences must have been, and to endure these episodes repeatedly..."

Mike Specian:

"I was listening to this podcast as I was driving. When Sharon said the world "turns 90 degrees" I almost crashed the car. For the first time in my entire life I had learned of someone who has experiences the same thing as I do!

My experience differs somewhat from Sharon's. First, I don't need to spin around to become disoriented. If I close my eyes (or not, I've gotten better at this) and visualize what the world would look like turned 90 degrees, I can open my eyes and see the difference. This is easier in places where I've spent a lot of time. In new places, I have to concentrate harder to visualize the rotation. Sometimes I actively try to avoid this, as it can lead to confusion and distraction.

The best way I've found to explain it is like this. Picture four streets oriented in a square with four identical houses facing in each of the cardinal directions. All of the surroundings are completely symmetric and identical. My understanding is that under these conditions, almost no one would be able to tell which house is facing in which direction. I can.

Here's another example. I would attend church as a kid. The building was perfect for "turning the world around" because I spent long amounts of time there, and my mind would wander a lot. I began to visualize how the church would appear different to me if I turned it 90 degrees. Eventually, I was able to visualize all four orientations. They each represent distinct places for me. Each was a sub-location buried within the original stationary location. Once an orientation had been visualized, with a slight bit of concentration, I could flip between them. Each felt different to me and caused different emotional reactions. I would notice details in one environment that I wouldn't notice in another.

Despite this, I think that I have a pretty good sense of direction. When I would bike around my home town as a kid and the world flipped on me, I became momentarily disoriented. It was no longer clear which path was the best way home. In those circumstances I could either rotate the world back to its standard configuration or try to map out a "new path" in the other orientation.

This still affects me everyday, but I've gotten so used to it that I'm barely consciously aware of it anymore. I'll sit at my desk, type, the orientation will switch, I won't miss a beat, and I'll return to typing. Sometimes I purposefully change the orientation just to make things more interesting."

Rayna:

"I was amazed to hear about Sharon -- I've experienced something similar to her condition since I was a little girl. Many of my first memories about the house I grew up in seem as if they're experienced from a skewed or rotated angle.

As I got older, I realized that if I concentrated, I could turn the disorientation on and off. I remember lying awake at a friend's sleepover, entertaining myself my switching back and forth between points of view.

Today the disorientation is mostly gone, though I still get lost quite often (and am a terrible chess player. I wonder if Sharon is too). "

Kirsten

I am so happy to have stumbled across this! About 4 years ago when I was living abroad I often got confused in my kitchen. On a number of occasions I would go to put something in the oven only to find the oven wasn't where it should be. It has recently gotten worse and has made me panic when I'm driving to work and all of a sudden I don;t recognize the street I am on even though I have driven on it every day for years. It also happens at work when I walk through my call center on my way to a meeting and I everything all of a sudden looks different to me and I don't know how to get to where I am going.

I never realized until listening to this that it's not that I have never seen the place I am in before, it's just that I am seeing it from an angle I have never seen. I feel....found.

Jun. 14 2012 12:49 AM

rachel from Scotland

I've experienced VRIs since childhood, and have never been able to explain this to anyone without attracting confused stares. I must have been about four years old when it happened the first time and I remember it affected me strongly. One day my home and my street just spontaneously "changed direction", this was a permanent shift which has lasted to this day. I clearly remember feeling confused and upset at the time and actually tried hard to concentrate to get the "old world" to come back - but it never did. I can still visualise it when I recall memories from before a certain age. I know now that what I was really seeing was the same view but from another angle, but at the time it felt like I had gone to a whole other world. I can voluntarily bring on VRI flips if I concentrate hard enough, but there is usually always a default view for most places I know. This is all very interesting to read.

Jun. 07 2012 10:15 AM 

Juan from Florida

I tried to explain it to my sister when we were kids and she could not understand what I was talking about. I always thought it was a tremendous advantage since I could visualize my city in 4 different ways that apparently not many other people could; I just took it as going to another place you knew memories and mood transplanted there too. One minor thing, sometimes I have to turn things araound to be able to remember events that happened in a particular view. More than just the view of the location, I think that there are deeper psychological effects worth exploring. AsI have grown older I have lost the ability to see or remember what I used to as a kid.

Oct. 12 2012 07:37 AM

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beatrice Parsons Binkley from Arvada, Colorado

I can't believe this condition was ever a problem for anyone else. Since I was in kindergarten I have had episodes when my world was "switched" but

I never, ever told anyone because I could'nt explain these happenings.

Whenever the switch occured it was often when I first woke up in the morning. I wish I would have known to close my eyes and spin atound. Instead, I would close my eyes, wait a few seconds hopeing I would be o.k. when I opened my eyes. These happenings continued from @ age 4, through my teen years, and into my adult years. As I aged, the switch happened less

often and now it rarely happens. During all those incidents, I stood still, not knowing which way to go because I was in unfamiliar territory.

I am thrilled that Sharon was brave enough to try to explain her condition so that others (including me) now know what was wrong with us.

Oct. 12 2012 04:10 PM

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ankush from india

Hi have been experiencing same things - 90degree rotation in everything I perceive....even the text book I read...even my computer screen, my room my television video. I can change it by myself and sometimes happens automatically. I am searching since last year about this but never found anything before but now. After reading about it now I understand what It is. But what to do to stop this. Sometimes it just irritates me when I try to understand directions, try to remember things I read in text books, all the things rotates exactly 90 degrees. I have even made a 3d model of my room in both rotation to explain my situation to the people of the world but they dont understand and never will. Help needed indeed. It effects my learning and navigation.

Dec. 15 2012 03:55 PM

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patty harvey

I have this alot, I can be driving along a road I drive all the time, and just look up and not know where I am.It seems to happen more at times of stress,And it usually passes soon. also my sense of direction almost goes away completely after dark.

Apr. 06 2013 04:35 PM

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Nancy Williams from Miami, Fla.

OMG...I almost drove off the road when I heard this radio broadcast with Sharon...I've had this since I was a teenager and I have 4 distinct "Directions" I've tried explaining it to people, but it is difficult. If I do change directions while I'm driving where it would be difficult to find my way around, I can usually just picture myself back in main direction and I'll switch back to my normal familiarity.I never thought other people experienced this...really amazing to hear the radio broadcast...THANK YOU Sharon for bringing this to light...

Apr. 07 2013 01:12 PM

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Pascal from Grenoble, France

I experience this kind of disorientation every days, but I never really feel lost, I just accept that inside some building or in some towns, north in not always on the... north side.

I've found forums or notes talking about it (mainly by Hugh who has posted here too)... but still nothing in french and I don't know if there is a word for that.

Apr. 29 2013 08:47 AM

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Benjamin Craig from Berkley MI

I do not suffer from this, but there has been several instances where i think this intial "map of my surroundings" gets a little weird. I have excellent sense of direction. My friends call me a crow, that is, I can find my way back to places I have only been to once, usually quite a bit in the past. I also have a strange way of keeping my heading in relation to true north in check. This said, There have been a few instances where I can clearly remember the way my brain has laid out a place that I have been to for the first time. The first was my firsttrip to my high school, on an orientation. The "upness" of this initial "map" has since been rotated 90 degrees. I however still remember like it was yesterday when "up" was flipped back to the initial experience. The two other involve my college campus, and my current place of employment. Eavh involve a 90 flip of "up" from my first conception, with a clear rememberance of the old way I had the place laid out in my head. This interview got me thinking. You guys are the best, I listen everyweek!

Nov. 18 2013 07:56 PM

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Shanti from California

I have had VRI for ever and experience it every day. It was only yesterday that I discovered I am not the only one!

Unlike some of the others, the 90/180 degree displacement happens to me automatically and I cannot change it on my own. This phenom has always intrigued me but I never thought anyone else would be experiencing the same thing and never disclosed it to anyone. Now I know I am not alone,, I feel like Richard Dryfuss in The Close Encounters of the Third kind! I want to learn more about research in this field. Please do share and I will do the same.

Dec. 08 2013 07:45 PM

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Janette from Edmonton, AB. Canada

Oh my gosh!!! I have never found anyone who experienced this - I've had a couple doctors tell me it was a petit mal type of seizure - but in all my own research I could not find anything to describe what happens like this does!!! Sometimes I can control it and play with the different sensations when I change my world orientation.... but like this morning - driving into town on roads I have driven for over 35 years - I could not. Thank goodness my son was with me when I got to downtown - he was able to direct me to his house and then "voila" all of a sudden it switched back and I knew where I was. I feel "spacy" though now this morning.

Jan. 17 2014 11:56 AM

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Joyce from Virginia

I have been aware that I had this problem since I was about 6 years old. I thought I was the only one until I heard Sharon describe it perfectly: it is as if someone picked up the world, turned it 90 degrees, and then set it back down. After telling my mom about it, and making a trip to the eye doctor, no one could figure it out, and I was probably too young to provide a good description. So I have lived with this my whole life. I have learned to navigate all 4 of my rotations, although I usually stay in one "default" direction. If I am in a building for the first time, and things flip, the only way I can find my way is to mentally picture which way I turned to get to my present position, and then travel that path in reverse to get me back. I find it interesting that we all have 90 degree rotations. My question has always been: I wonder which of my 4 rotations other people "live" in permanently.

Feb. 08 2014 04:28 PM

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Sue from Seattle

I've had this "flip flop vision" since age 3 and it's so fun to hear of others that also have this 'unique ability'!!! I realized I saw the street I lived on as well as my home in two different 'ways' - it wasn't until we moved to a new house that had the same models every few houses that I realized it was 90 degrees. Age 6 I realized my friend's house faced West and mine faced South, the exact same floor plan yet hers was the "flip flopped version". Like others, my mom said "I just wouldn't talk much about it"...mainly because it sounded so weird and she couldn't understand. I grew into it, practicing my drum and bugle corps field formations 4 counts at a time at night in my "flip flop form" lest I be smashed with a baritone if I moved in the wrong direction. What I want to know is do any of you do the flip flop with your eyes closed, sensing when it has flipped, then open your eyes and seeing you're right? Does lead me to believe it has something to do with our sense of direction and our magnetic compass. I have fun with it, but it always snaps back like a stretched rubber band. I'm 52 now and have been toying with it for 49 years alone - so wonderful to hear I'm not the only one!!!

Mar. 07 2014 03:24 AM

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Dave Terry from San Francisco, CA

I've had this pretty much all my life. I have no memory of it not being there. I never experienced a disorientation or "lost" feeling, but the 90 degree "shift" is as normal to me as breathing. I can do it at will; sometimes it's just there, and I can usually re-orient as fast as I need to (very important when driving or walking in unfamiliar circumstances).

I may have tried to explain it to people, but realized early in my life that there were no words for it. I kind of assumed that everyone had this phenomenon, and like me, just didn't bother to mention it.

For most of my life, I could do three views, but in the last several years, it's just been two. I'm 64, and this is the first time I ever looked it up or researched it at all. It's one of those things to which I've always said: " I wonder what THAT is?" Rarely has it been an issue that I thought needed attention. I think my acceptance of it stems from it having been there as long as I can remember. I'm pretty sure, though, that I used the spin method when I was a kid.Nobody thought twice about a 5-year-old spinning around anywhere. The internet was years in the future, and kids had to do something for entertainment. I guess I was an early adapter.

I would encourage anyone who experiences this to treat it as a talent and a tool. i've used it countless times to short-circuit a mood plunge or anxiety attack. I've always looked at it like synesthesia, or any of those brain/perception goof ups that are part of the human experience. It is thrilling, though, to finally see others in the same boat. (the one heading south, no, wait, west! at least it feels like west, but it's south, I know it! )

Jun. 22 2014 12:05 AM

[bison]

1 hour ago, Hugh said:

Great to hear that you experience this too, bison!

I think that most people experience it at times but it can be subtle so people just think they are confused for a bit.

It passes fairly quickly for me too usually, with my brain flipping everything “back to normal” automatically.

Have you ever been able to control it? Have you ever attempted to flip things around at will?

The first time I ever did I had come home from school and I was exploring around my home which was in a new cool orientation. It flipped back to normal and I was saddened because I liked the different viewpoint better. While it was still fresh in my mind, I focused and made it flip back to the cool way! I was so happy that I had learned that I could control it!

I have some ability to evoke the 'turned around' sensation. I am experiencing it as I type this, after reading the descriptions that other gave of the phenomenon. Thinking about it seems to be a trigger. 

[the13bats]

Its just another very cool example of how the human brain functions including the fact some will subscribe some type of otherwordly aspects to this trick of the mind which yes, i too have experenced and i believe most people have and might say a simple, "i got turned around"

[Hugh]

15 minutes ago, bison said:

I have some ability to evoke the 'turned around' sensation. I am experiencing it as I type this, after reading the descriptions that other gave of the phenomenon. Thinking about it seems to be a trigger. 

That’s awesome, bison! Yes, I have found that thinking about where you want to go helps you achieve it.

Have you ever seen all 4 different orientations of any one place, like your home?

Here is an example of all 4 viewpoints shown together, also showing what a 90 and 180 degree flip is between each viewpoint.

[Hugh]

14 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Its just another very cool example of how the human brain functions including the fact some will subscribe some type of otherwordly aspects to this trick of the mind which yes, i too have experenced and i believe most people have and might say a simple, "i got turned around"

It’s great to hear you have experienced it too, 13bats!

Have you ever been able to make it happen by conscious thought?

[the13bats]

41 minutes ago, Hugh said:

It’s great to hear you have experienced it too, 13bats!

Have you ever been able to make it happen by conscious thought?

Quick answer no, i do not seem to have a control over this phenomenon and might never last more than a few seconds,

Ive had this all my life as did my mother and grandmother so i never gave it any thoughts, i only scanned your posts of others accounts as i dont like 2nd party and a lot of that sounded like disorientation and i believe what you are discussing is a bit more,

If i go back to this,

Everything from this same vantage point, Lets say you were seeing the seats all facing left then after the flick you see them to the right is that a memory issues? Could be.

If you say when i came in seats faced left now they face right its a simple case of asking other movie partons, hey buddy, which way do the seat face if all reply to the right and you now too see them point to the right then really not much there to run with.

However, and without salting if you think the seats were pointing left and now see them pointing right and all the partons say no the seats are pointing left still opposite to how you see them that is very intriguing two or more people seeing the seats pointing different ways, very easy if there to prove which side is correct.

My speculation is that will never happen more than one person seeing the same thing different directions, because like i said it can be denunked.

Now i do happen to believe they is a mind trick that would do what you describe, it gets way deeper way above my payrate and security clearance but my wife has a PhD in this area and ill ask her take on this l.

Great thread.

 

 

[Hugh]

Thanks, the13bats.

For the example of the movie theatre photo, while you’re still in the movie theatre on the left, a 180 degree VRI occurs and you find yourself in the same movie theatre but now facing in the opposite direction, as if you’re now in the movie theatre on the right.

All of this happens in your own mind, it is a subjective experience, so no one else notices your flip, unless they have a VRI in their own mind at the same time as you do.

That is interesting to hear that your mother and grandmother have experienced this too, and that your wife has a PhD in this area. What does she think about it?

Edited March 15, 2021 by Hugh

[Occupational Hubris]

I've had this happen at movie theaters and upon waking when I'm very groggy. Generally when woke up straight from REM sleep.

I see n-dimensional space being involved. If n-dimensional space exists, it's of a size far too small for us to interact with. Perhaps you ade thinking of parallel universes? While it would be cool, it's just too complicated and explanation. It's likely just a trick of the brain, much like how the moon appear gigantic when near the horizon, but if you hold your hand up too it, it's normall sized. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Occupational Hubris

[Hugh]

1 hour ago, Occupational Hubris said:

I've had this happen at movie theaters and upon waking when I'm very groggy. Generally when woke up straight from REM sleep.

I see n-dimensional space being involved. If n-dimensional space exists, it's of a size far too small for us to interact with. Perhaps you ade thinking of parallel universes? While it would be cool, it's just too complicated and explanation. It's likely just a trick of the brain, much like how the moon appear gigantic when near the horizon, but if you hold your hand up too it, it's normall sized. 

Thanks, Occupational Hubris. Currently the the explanation involves the firing of Head Direction cells in the brain, which reorient our bearings back to our normal setting.

I’ve had it happen while waking up from sleep as well. My bedroom is turned around from how I normally see it, then it flips back to normal in a second or two. You mentioned parallel universes and that’s what I have thought might be another explanation, but I agree that it’s too complicated an idea.

What has always fascinated me though, is the fact that we can see our surroundings from more than one direction.

Aale de Winkel made an interesting point in another forum when he said: “I doubt that tetra-vision would be the same as x-ray vision. Tetronians will not be able to see within a trionian body, they see the lightrays reflecting off a body just in a direction more than we trionians do!”

What if we are actually Tetronians, or higher dimensional beings? What if we can only perceive a “3D slice” of our surroundings at any particular time, but there are more directions to see that 3D slice than we currently think?

Some theories state that higher dimensions might be too small for us to see but they would still be there, right? We would still have some indication that light would be able to travel to us from more directions than we think are possible.

My avatar shows a tetracube and it is similar to the VRI experience in that there are all these other cube viewpoints to see within that higher dimensional space.

I’ve heard Michio Kaku talk about how higher dimensions could explain and unite all the laws of physics because there is “more room” to allow them all to fit together and be as one.

I’m hoping that the existence of VRIs might help in that endeavour.

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Hugh

[the13bats]

4 hours ago, Hugh said:

Thanks, the13bats.

For the example of the movie theatre photo, while you’re still in the movie theatre on the left, a 180 degree VRI occurs and you find yourself in the same movie theatre but now facing in the opposite direction, as if you’re now in the movie theatre on the right.

All of this happens in your own mind, it is a subjective experience, so no one else notices your flip, unless they have a VRI in their own mind at the same time as you do.

That is interesting to hear that your mother and grandmother have experienced this too, and that your wife has a PhD in this area. What does she think about it?

I guess i was soft stepping as i didnt know if you believed this phenomenon was in our brains or some woowoo,  i didnt want to offend you.

I agree its a mind trick and my experences are not as cool as yours, mine do not last very long,  i recall once i was about 12 sitting with my grandmother and she said raise your right hand i did she laughed as she was seeing me etc 180.

Also ive had basically a lifetime of sleep disorders, drdp, mental issues of a nerves panic ptsd type nature so while im a hard core skeptic about unproven paranormal things i still understand why some folks think their experence must be paranormal,  i find the study of how our brains work far more interesting.

Im going try to get tina to post her opinions on it herself so i dont bumble up her words.

 

[Hugh]

41 minutes ago, the13bats said:

while im a hard core skeptic about unproven paranormal things i still understand why some folks think their experence must be paranormal,  i find the study of how our brains work far more interesting.

 

I’m skeptical as well of paranormal stuff and also interested in how our brains work too.

This is just an interest of mine, one that I have been experimenting with over the years, trying to understand the nuances of it.

It kind of like feels like a superpower at times, an ability to turn the world around and see it from different directions at will.

Here on Earth, VRIs are usually only around the vertical axis because of the sense of gravity providing a strong “down” cue, so only the perceived N/S/E/W directions exchange identities, but up in space in zero gravity, astronauts are able to experience VRIs around all 3 perceived axes. Up there, the ceiling might exchange perceived identity with the floor! This makes them much more noticeable up in space because that usually doesn’t happen here on Earth.

One Skylab crewmember described it this way: “It was a strange sensation. You see brand-new things…It’s really like a whole new room that you walk into…with the lights underneath your feet, and it’s just an amazing situation to find yourself in”. Another noted “All one has to do is to rotate one’s body to [a new] orientation and whammo! What one thinks is up is up”. “It’s a feeling as though one could take this whole room and, by pushing a button, just rotate it around so that the ceiling up here would be the floor. It’s a marvelous feeling of power over space – over the space around one” (Cooper, 1976).

Edited March 15, 2021 by Hugh

[bison]

13 hours ago, Hugh said:

That’s awesome, bison! Yes, I have found that thinking about where you want to go helps you achieve it.

Have you ever seen all 4 different orientations of any one place, like your home?

Here is an example of all 4 viewpoints shown together, also showing what a 90 and 180 degree flip is between each viewpoint.

I'd never really thought about the number of degrees that things appeared to be turned about for me. Mulling this over in my mind, and based on yesterday's experience, which is freshest in memory, I think that things usually appear about 30 degrees shifted.  This is enough to be disorienting, but not enough to prevent my navigating by using  familiar landmarks,  and  proceeding as if they weren't skewed.

[Hugh]

4 minutes ago, bison said:

I'd never really thought about the number of degrees that things appeared to be turned about for me. Mulling this over in my mind, and based on yesterday's experience, which is freshest in memory, I think that things usually appear about 30 degrees shifted.  This is enough to be disorienting, but not enough to prevent my navigating by using  familiar landmarks,  and  proceeding as if they weren't skewed.

I can relate to things being shifted to around a 30 degree point but only while I am going around a curve or angle and I think about my placing on a much larger map area.

The actual visual reorientation illusion flip though for me, and most others, is usually only a 90 or 180 degree one.

Are you saying you have experienced an instant VRI of 30 degrees, or that your bearings slowly get skewed by about 30 degrees because of travel along a curve or odd angled street?

If you actually can experience a 30 degree instant VRI that would be something I never have had, and it would lead to more than 4 viewpoints possible of a particular place.

[bison]

5 hours ago, Hugh said:

I can relate to things being shifted to around a 30 degree point but only while I am going around a curve or angle and I think about my placing on a much larger map area.

The actual visual reorientation illusion flip though for me, and most others, is usually only a 90 or 180 degree one.

Are you saying you have experienced an instant VRI of 30 degrees, or that your bearings slowly get skewed by about 30 degrees because of travel along a curve or odd angled street?

If you actually can experience a 30 degree instant VRI that would be something I never have had, and it would lead to more than 4 viewpoints possible of a particular place.

The impressions I had of a 30 degree shift in direction wasn't connected to going around a corner. I was sitting at my desk, at home. When I looked across the room, after reading the accounts of others who have experienced VRI, I noticed this change. Later, in the evening, I happened to glance toward the opposite end of the room. The same, subtle impression of a 30 degree shift in direction  was received. In both cases, the shift was to my left. 

It appears that shifts of 90 or 180 degrees are based on cultural norms like rectangular rooms, buildings and grid-like street designs, and perhaps, ultimately, on natural 'wiring' in the brain. In my case that 'wiring' appears atypical. But this comes as no great surprise to me.

 

[Hugh]

52 minutes ago, bison said:

The impressions I had of a 30 degree shift in direction wasn't connected to going around a corner. I was sitting at my desk, at home. When I looked across the room, after reading the accounts of others who have experienced VRI, I noticed this change. Later, in the evening, I happened to glance toward the opposite end of the room. The same, subtle impression of a 30 degree shift in direction  was received. In both cases, the shift was to my left.

 

Wow that is very rare, bison!

I have never experienced a VRI like that. I would be fascinated to hear if you would be interested in experimenting a bit with it to learn more about it.

Is it just in that room that you can do the 30 degree VRI shift in or can you do it in other ones?

Is the room square or does it have a non-90 degree corner or corners?

Can you do one 30 degree shift to the left and then another 30 to get to 60 and then another 30 to get to 90 degrees?

Can you look outside a window from the room after a 30 degree shift and confirm it has shifted 30 degrees as well?

[Saru]

On 3/15/2021 at 12:02 AM, Hugh said:

Here how some others have described the experience:
 

Do you have a source for these ?

We ask that a source link always be included when quoting from external sources and only a small snippet of the original text should be used.

Thank you.

[Hugh]

19 minutes ago, Saru said:

Do you have a source for these ?

We ask that a source link always be included when quoting from external sources and only a small snippet of the original text should be used.

Thank you.

Hi Saru. Sorry, the original link to the comments section of the podcast wasn’t working anymore so I didn’t include it. I did find the podcast available though from another link.

The podcast was from Radiolab called “You Are Here”

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/segments/110165-you-are-here

The original comments aren’t available from what I could see but I have included the ones that had pertained to VRIs so that others could understand the phenomenon better. There is very little written about VRIs and each of these writeups are like finding gold to those who have experienced this their whole life but have never found anyone else who does!

I am always trying to find others who experience this so that we can all help each other understand it more.

[bison]

17 hours ago, Hugh said:

Wow that is very rare, bison!

I have never experienced a VRI like that. I would be fascinated to hear if you would be interested in experimenting a bit with it to learn more about it.

Is it just in that room that you can do the 30 degree VRI shift in or can you do it in other ones?

Is the room square or does it have a non-90 degree corner or corners?

Can you do one 30 degree shift to the left and then another 30 to get to 60 and then another 30 to get to 90 degrees?

Can you look outside a window from the room after a 30 degree shift and confirm it has shifted 30 degrees as well?

Hugh;   The room has the usual 90 degree corners. I got the same 30-degrees-to-the-left effect yesterday, outdoors, at an intersection where I've experienced VRIs a few times, over the years, so being indoors, or in that particular room is unnecessary. Also experienced a 30 degrees to the right shift, last evening and this morning, indoors.

 It seems that I am experimenting with VRIs, spontaneously. I've had more of these experiences, in greater variety, since starting this conversation, than I have had over a long period of time before that. 

[Hugh]

That’s awesome to hear, bison!

I just want to confirm with you what a 30 degree angle is, can you confirm?

So as I understand it, you can consciously do a 30 degree angle VRI to the right and left in certain locations, correct?

It’s great that you are willing to experiment more with this phenomenon, I would be fascinated to learn of any further updates in your experiences.

When I consciously initiate VRIs in a movie theatre, the easiest place for me, I can do a total of 4 flips “around the circle” to hit the two 90 degree positions and the 180. Have you tried to go around the circle to see how many viewpoints you can achieve? With 30 degree increments there would be a total of 12 positions possible.

Another thing with VRIs I have found is that each memory that I have also includes the viewpoint that I was in at the time.

For example, the home that I grew up in was seen at various times in all 4 viewpoints, but any particular memory that I have from there also includes which of the four viewpoints I was in at the time. From where I am right now, I can point in the direction that the front door of my house was facing for each memory that I have from there. Is it the same for you?

[Hyperionxvii]

6 minutes ago, Hugh said:

That’s awesome to hear, bison!

I just want to confirm with you what a 30 degree angle is, can you confirm?

So as I understand it, you can consciously do a 30 degree angle VRI to the right and left in certain locations, correct?

It’s great that you are willing to experiment more with this phenomenon, I would be fascinated to learn of any further updates in your experiences.

When I consciously initiate VRIs in a movie theatre, the easiest place for me, I can do a total of 4 flips “around the circle” to hit the two 90 degree positions and the 180. Have you tried to go around the circle to see how many viewpoints you can achieve? With 30 degree increments there would be a total of 12 positions possible.

Another thing with VRIs I have found is that each memory that I have also includes the viewpoint that I was in at the time.

For example, the home that I grew up in was seen at various times in all 4 viewpoints, but any particular memory that I have from there also includes which of the four viewpoints I was in at the time. From where I am right now, I can point in the direction that the front door of my house was facing for each memory that I have from there. Is it the same for you?

The only correct viewpoint is what CNN says it is. They have fact checkers they own to prove it. The science is settled. Consensus is fact. 

[bison]

1 hour ago, Hugh said:

That’s awesome to hear, bison!

I just want to confirm with you what a 30 degree angle is, can you confirm?

So as I understand it, you can consciously do a 30 degree angle VRI to the right and left in certain locations, correct?

It’s great that you are willing to experiment more with this phenomenon, I would be fascinated to learn of any further updates in your experiences.

When I consciously initiate VRIs in a movie theatre, the easiest place for me, I can do a total of 4 flips “around the circle” to hit the two 90 degree positions and the 180. Have you tried to go around the circle to see how many viewpoints you can achieve? With 30 degree increments there would be a total of 12 positions possible.

Another thing with VRIs I have found is that each memory that I have also includes the viewpoint that I was in at the time.

For example, the home that I grew up in was seen at various times in all 4 viewpoints, but any particular memory that I have from there also includes which of the four viewpoints I was in at the time. From where I am right now, I can point in the direction that the front door of my house was facing for each memory that I have from there. Is it the same for you?

Yes, I  literally mean an angle of 30 degrees, just as you depicted it; one third of a right angle. This is merely my visual estimate of something that, by  its very nature, is elusive and subjective.

Describing such an impression in degrees makes it sound well-defined and objective. However, since this is apparently all occurring inside ones head, and effects one's entire outlook, there is no fixed benchmark against which to measure, and no way of providing objective evidence of such a perception.

I will add that, even during a VRI experience, as long as i'm in a location familiar to me, I can, by a dependence on familiar landmarks,  still point to North, and hence,  to the other cardinal directions, with a reasonable and normal degree of accuracy. I have every expectation that these points would agree with those perceived by a similarly knowledgable person who was not having a VRI experience at that time.

 In VRI, we may have something essentially equivalent to the way a person can become 'turned around' in an unusual and unfamiliar setting. I once became lost in San Francisco, being unfamiliar with the relative positions of landmarks. I could not return to my starting point. Only after seeking directions from a police officer, was I able to find my way back to my objective.

It seems that even familiar settings may be made to seem, to one degree or another,  visually unfamiliar, due to an odd. transient quirk of the mind.  

Edited March 17, 2021 by bison
improved exposition

[Hugh]

54 minutes ago, bison said:

Describing such an impression in degrees makes it sound well-defined and objective. However, since this is apparently all occurring inside ones head, and effects one's entire outlook, there is no fixed benchmark against which to measure, and no way of providing objective evidence of such a perception.

The fixed benchmark that I use is the relative positions of all the possible viewpoints to each other as a whole.

For me each viewpoint has its own distinct feel and orientation and memories attached to it, and there are only 4 possible ways for me to see a place, so there is a deep-rooted feeling of an exact 90 degree angle between each of them.

I am curious as to how 30 degree spaced VRI orientations would feel for you, and if it can be experimented with to the point that you can see 12 distinct viewpoints in total of any particular space (360/30=12), each with their own feel and memories attached.
 

Also I’d be interested to hear any thoughts you have about a video I made about experiencing VRIs while travelling around downtown Toronto on the subway.