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Saru

What is the truth behind the AstraZeneca vaccine 'blood clot' claims ?

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Saru

We've heard in the news recently that several countries have suspended use of the AstraZeneca vaccine over fears that it can cause blood clots, but what is the truth behind this ? Is there any verifiable evidence to suggest that the vaccine can cause this particular side-effect ?

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Setton

From @eight bits linked article:

Quote

Experts say the number of blood clots reported after the vaccine were no more than those typically reported within the general population

So it would seem the vaccine is probably not responsible.

As for why these countries are suspending it, the cynic in me says politics.

It's the same vaccine they're struggling to get after a humiliating failure to intimidate AZ/UK to give them extra doses at the expense of earlier customers.

I can't see another motive for smearing an effective vaccine against the scientific consensus.

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L.A.T.1961
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Setton said:

From @eight bits linked article:

So it would seem the vaccine is probably not responsible.

As for why these countries are suspending it, the cynic in me says politics.

It's the same vaccine they're struggling to get after a humiliating failure to intimidate AZ/UK to give them extra doses at the expense of earlier customers.

I can't see another motive for smearing an effective vaccine against the scientific consensus.

Yup, I would go with this reason as well. Given the number vaccinated with AZ any statistically significant effect would have emerged months ago and two cases is not significant. 

Edited by L.A.T.1961
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toast

The ChAdOx1 vaccine product information sheet contain the following warning:

Quote

Warnings and precautions

Talk to you doctor, pharmacist or nurse before you are given COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca:

(...)

- If you have a problem with bleeding or brushing, or if you are taking an anticoagulant medicine (to prevent from blood clots)

(...)

Link (see page 26)

So in theory, there is a probability that people who take anticoagulant medicine didnt informed the medical staff about that fact, for the reason to get vaccined, in advance to the vaccination.

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Raptor Witness
Posted (edited)

This Yale video suggests at the very end, that in order to produce autoantibodies, inflammation, such as occurs during an actual infection, is required.

The problem I have with this Yale video’s assumption, is I think it’s premature to argue that autoantibodies are not produced from vaccinations, simply because there’s no or little inflammation from a vaccine.

I wouldn’t use this argument as a reason to avoid all vaccinations, generally, but it could be a reason to avoid one vaccine over another.

The study of autoantibodies is relatively new, and anyone researching this, will understand this pretty quick.

There is a reason why reports of blood clots associated with this vaccine, are causing pauses in its administration. My guess is, the underlying reason is a suspicion that the AstraZeneca vaccine could be producing autoantibodies, which might be affecting certain blood clotting factors, as I referenced above.

The truth is, we barely understand the complexity of our immune system. For example, it’s now suspected that a number of psychiatric disorders, may be the result of these autoantibodies.

If you don’t mind wading through the tough weeds, here is a very interesting lecture on this very idea, which demonstrates that we are only in our infancy, when it comes to understanding what can go wrong with our immune system.

 

Edited by Raptor Witness
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Raptor Witness
Posted (edited)

The biggest problem with The AstraZeneca vaccine in the U.S. is this 1/2 dose manufacturing error, coupled with the unexpected positive results in the smaller size of the group receiving  the error sized dose. 

The question still being asked, is why did the 1/2 sized trial dose seem to work better? The FDA is calling this a use of “outdated information,” which apparently contained the error described better in this video.

 

Edited by Raptor Witness

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the13bats

Im not sure where this plays in with the truth about AZ vax allegedly causing blood clots but in plays in somewhere that anti vaxers use this as a tool to denounce getting the vaccination they avoid posting the number of people effected compared to number vaxed which does make me question in a group of 17m ( last figure i read) vaxed with AZ less than 50 got bloodclots so in a group of 17m with no one getting any vax how many still get blood clots? In my way of thinking thats a major clue to is AZ vax at fault if at all.

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Raptor Witness
Posted (edited)

It would seem that things really are going sideways fast for the UK model of the vaccine .... as newer data rolls in.

Canada Urges Halt Use of AstraZeneca Covid-19 Vaccine in People Under 55WSJ - March 29, 2021

Health officials revise guidance based on reports of blood-clotting side effects in Europe

....The preprint research looked at nine patients whose ages ranged from 22 to 49 and who had developed thrombosis, which occurs when a blood clot forms inside a blood vessel, beginning four to 16 days after getting the AstraZeneca vaccine. Eight of the patients were female. Four of the nine patients died....

The paper refers to blood clotting after a Covid-19 vaccination as a rare adverse effect, and one that has so far only been reported in patients who received the AstraZeneca vaccine ....

Canadian officials said that, based on information from Europe, the incident rate was originally estimated at one per one million people vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine, but a higher rate of one in 100,000 was later reported by researchers in Germany. Among the people who developed blood clotting after receiving the vaccine, the fatality rate is estimated at 40%, the officials said.

Edited by Raptor Witness

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Raptor Witness

US recommends ‘pause’ for J&J shots in blow to vaccine drive AP 4-13-2021

_______________
With the pause today of the J & J vaccine by the United States, due to highly unusual blood clots in some patients, this does seem to add to the possibility of an auto antibody issue, caused by certain vaccines, including Astra Zeneca, and which I raised here above.

It’s still early to say for certain, but since we are now apparently seeing this same issue with two different types of COVID-19 vaccine, I think the odds are increased that my hypothesis may be correct. 

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keithisco

I think the real answer lay in any data / research that conclusively shows a higher incidence of Blood Clots after vaccination than in the General Population.

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Raptor Witness
Posted (edited)

I’ve found several theories behind the reason for COVID-19 causing blood clots.

However, since the AstraZeneca vaccinated patients, aren’t technically infected with the virus itself, we must look for a suitable model to explain what may be happening.

Apparently, merely developing certain aoto-antibodies to the SARS Cov-2 virus, can result in blood clots.

Since antibody production is the goal of a vaccine, this presents a potential explanation.

I’ve never heard of certain auto-antibodies, so I’m going to have to do some additional research into the phenomenon, but this curious finding presents a potential explanation for what could be occurring in some AstraZeneca vaccinated patients.

Why the AstraZeneca vaccine would potentially result in the production of auto-antibodies, over the other vaccines, is the next question I would be asking, but I’ll take that up in another post, if I can find a possible explanation

New cause of COVID-19 blood clots identifiedUniversity of Michigan, November 2, 2020

Some of the worst clotting we've ever seen'

Co-corresponding author Jason Knight, M.D., Ph.D., a rheumatologist at Michigan Medicine, has been studying antiphospholipid syndrome antibodies in the general population for years.

"Half of the patients hospitalized with COVID-19 were positive for at least one of the autoantibodies, which was quite a surprise," says Knight, also an associate professor of internal medicine and a leading expert on diseases caused by autoantibodies.

Edited by Raptor Witness

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HandsomeGorilla

I have high hematocrit (read: blood like molasses), so this is good to know

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