The Impersonal Life

[Horta]

4 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Actually I doubt the 'creativity' part, there has been some great art created by miserable people (Van Gogh, Poe, Lovecraft, etc).

Good point.

The most creative people have often had short and unhappy lives. The tormented genius types.

Though I wouldn't argue against the idea that in average people things like creativity can increase with health and a fresh outlook.

Though these things are subjective anyway and the methods given for achieving them and the other OTT claims are vague. It's like saying stop being unhappy and you'll be happier lol.

These vague miracle cure type ideologies assume everyone starts from the same point to begin with, which entirely overlooks the reality of the human condition.

 

 

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, Horta said:

Good point.

The most creative people have often had short and unhappy lives. The tormented genius types.

Though I wouldn't argue against the idea that in average people things like creativity can increase with health and a fresh outlook.

Yea, I'd instinctively think that being happy and content and all that would allow more time at least for creative endeavors so it does sound logical, but it seems, luckily for us but not for them, that one of some people's only escape from their misery is their art (or, whatever mentally that makes or leads them to be miserable is the same thing that is responsible for their heightened creativity).  Or a at a more macro level the whole genre of blues music; I'm sure there were some really terrible times that led to some of those tunes. 

1 hour ago, Horta said:

It's like saying stop being unhappy and you'll be happier lol.

These vague miracle cure type ideologies assume everyone starts from the same point to begin with, which entirely overlooks the reality of the human condition.

Definitely agreed, naivety seems to be a problem with most platitudes.

[Horta]

1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Or a at a more macro level the whole genre of blues music; I'm sure there were some really terrible times that led to some of those tunes. 

"Have been unlucky in love la la la........the dog died la la la..........got the sack as well la la la......."

Country music in a nutshell. A whole genre designed to allow people to wallow in some misery for a while. lol

Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with it, up to the individual. A lot of it is obviously formulaic commercially oriented stuff though. When I hear people playing it I usually have a different reaction, that fella needs to stop writing about it and try sorting himself out lol, in more of a wtf type of way. The lyrics that usually go so well with the "weeping" sound of the music.

It's popular though, so each to their own.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Horta

[Crazy Horse]

16 hours ago, Horta said:

No doubt.

To be more specific I have doubts that your methods will lead to the things you mention in your posts at times. Life isn't always easy and while experience helps, there are no magical solutions. Humans are all imperfect. Whole branches of real (scientific) study are at odds with your claims, as is experience of people who say they have achieved the things you mention in some of your posts. 

You regularly go way beyond claims of simply helping people to feel good, be creative and reduce stress. 

All I can really say is, that from where I was a few years ago, even a few months ago, and where I am now, all I can really say is that there is a pathway to acceptance, to contentment and meekness, that will produce an underlying feeling of happiness.

I am my own scientist, my mind and my body are the laboratory, and my experiments is with life itself. And I don't claim anything more than this.

Except, what I know, where I have been and where I am now, anyone may know too.

 

[Crazy Horse]

12 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

You so silly... the lies that you told about atheists and what they think are numerous, so lying apparently is not actually a problem that requires apologies.

There wasn't a single lie.

And for the thousandth time, it wasn't about any particular atheist, but about this atheistic belief and the fact that it leads to no-where good, dependent upon the actual level of belief.

You cannot even seem to understand that I was talking about an idea, and not any particular individual.

Every individual is perfect, is divine, it capable of a wonderous life, only certain ideas are like poison to the well.

And, FYI, I have apologised to several posters when I've stepped out-of-line.

[+Liquid Gardens]

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

You cannot even seem to understand that I was talking about an idea, and not any particular individual.

Your comments were about the negative effects of atheism and the only effect it can have is on individuals, those individuals by definition being 'atheists'.  You weren't talking about 'poisoning the well', I believe it was 'poisoning the mind', and only 'particular individuals' have minds, right?  Ideas don't get 'depressed'.  I don't know why you can't see or understand this, but it's something else that again enforces the idea that the benefits of your 'happy and contented' super-meaningful belief come at a cost, your awareness apparently in this particular case.

[Crazy Horse]

4 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Your comments were about the negative effects of atheism and the only effect it can have is on individuals, those individuals by definition being 'atheists'.  You weren't talking about 'poisoning the well', I believe it was 'poisoning the mind', and only 'particular individuals' have minds, right?  Ideas don't get 'depressed'.  I don't know why you can't see or understand this, but it's something else that again enforces the idea that the benefits of your 'happy and contented' super-meaningful belief come at a cost, your awareness apparently in this particular case.

Yes, the belief in atheism shall poison the mind, to the degree that it is actually believed.

And a mind poisoned by anything shall lead one to all kinds of harmful actions.

Only, ultimately speaking, we are not our beliefs, or even our minds, we are divine beings, who have been waylaid by this ego.

Get rid of the ego, and one may know GOD for oneself.

 

 

 

[+Liquid Gardens]

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, the belief in atheism shall poison the mind, to the degree that it is actually believed.

And a mind poisoned by anything shall lead one to all kinds of harmful actions.

And 'a mind' refers of course to individuals, not just an 'idea'.  Glad we've managed to settle that.

2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Only, ultimately speaking, we are not our beliefs, or even our minds, we are divine beings, who have been waylaid by this ego.

Get rid of the ego, and one may know GOD for oneself.

God's non-existence is more of an obstacle to knowing him than our ego.

[jmccr8]

On 4/21/2021 at 2:15 AM, Crazy Horse said:

And for the thousandth time, it wasn't about any particular atheist, but about this atheistic belief and the fact that it leads to no-where good, dependent upon the actual level of belief.

Hi Crazy Horse

Then you are talking about all atheists in particular.

On 4/21/2021 at 2:15 AM, Crazy Horse said:

You cannot even seem to understand that I was talking about an idea, and not any particular individual.

Your god is an idea and you expect to be respected none the less so then you should show the same in return.

On 4/21/2021 at 6:24 AM, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, the belief in atheism shall poison the mind, to the degree that it is actually believed.

And a mind poisoned by anything shall lead one to all kinds of harmful actions.

And this is an insult to people that do not share your belief.

On 4/21/2021 at 6:24 AM, Crazy Horse said:

Only, ultimately speaking, we are not our beliefs, or even our minds, we are divine beings, who have been waylaid by this ego.

Get rid of the ego, and one may know GOD for oneself.

You might want to work on your ego some more before telling others to work on theirs.

jmccr8

[+Hammerclaw]

21 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

Then you are talking about all atheists in particular.

Your god is an idea and you expect to be respected none the less so then you should show the same in return.

And this is an insult to people that do not share your belief.

You might want to work on your ego some more before telling others to work on theirs.

jmccr8

 

[XenoFish]

https://ryanholiday.medium.com/achieving-apatheia-7-steps-to-controlling-your-perceptions-like-a-stoic-14c162be5017

[jmccr8]

9 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

 

Hi Hammer

I don't tell people not to believe nor do I speak poorly of Jesus, I don't have to because I am not trying to upsale a different god. I do have a problem taking someone seriously if they talk out both sides of their mouth and deny that they do and this is what I see this particular poster doing. He does not reflect the religious/believer norm that I have known all my life and have no argument with them for their beliefs as they live them well just like you do.

jmccr8

[+Hammerclaw]

19 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Hammer

I don't tell people not to believe nor do I speak poorly of Jesus, I don't have to because I am not trying to upsale a different god. I do have a problem taking someone seriously if they talk out both sides of their mouth and deny that they do and this is what I see this particular poster doing. He does not reflect the religious/believer norm that I have known all my life and have no argument with them for their beliefs as they live them well just like you do.

jmccr8

Sometimes we forget the stark black-and-whites the moral world was painted in when we were young, new to adulthood. How, over time, it blurred and those easy answers faded to gray. He'll have to find out, as did the rest of us here, that his religious epiphany is not unique, that many of us here already have had them and they are not the same as his. To come up from the valley and be shown the world from the mountaintop makes us feel special and we are loath to part with that exhilaration. Time will make him a wiser man, albeit a smaller one in his own eyes, if not the world's.

1 Corinthians 13:11. “When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but, when I became a man, I put away childish things.”

Edited April 23, 2021 by Hammerclaw

[Crazy Horse]

21 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

Oh yea, watch out for all those pure religious minds......nothing to worry about....... as history has shown us. 

And damn, our beliefs are so, so, poisoned -  no doubt beyond repair:

Anyone with a religious mind, cannot, actually, hurt another being..

If some folk decide to hurt another person, then that's on them..

 

[XenoFish]

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

Anyone with a religious mind, cannot, actually, hurt another being..

If some folk decide to hurt another person, then that's on them..

 

Even when a religious tells them to kill the non-believers, because, that's what god wants. 

[Crazy Horse]

14 hours ago, Xeno-Fish said:

Even when a religious tells them to kill the non-believers, because, that's what god wants. 

 

10 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

But thats just it, over the eons, many with this "religious" mind are actually in the "religious zealot" category, and maiming, killing, and raping is the normal order of the day.

The saints, the bodhisattva's, and the yogis are the true religious zealots.

A single pointed attention and feeling towards GOD, without distraction.

However, there are, have been, many folk who look very religious, speak and even act religiously on occasion, and may even believe that they are doing the work of GOD, and yet are still willing to hurt another being. .

And so these people are not religious but are something else. And if they truly believe, and want to commune with GOD, then at some point they shall realise the oneness of all life, realise the Law of Karma, and soon put an end to all hurtful thoughts and actions.

[XenoFish]

43 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

And so these people are not religious but are something else. And if they truly believe, and want to commune with GOD, then at some point they shall realise the oneness of all life, realise the Law of Karma, and soon put an end to all hurtful thoughts and actions.

You are putting too much foolish faith in human nature. 

[Crazy Horse]

Just now, Xeno-Fish said:

You are putting too much foolish faith in human nature. 

No, if one truly wants to know GOD, then they shall find a way.

[XenoFish]

21 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

No, if one truly wants to know GOD, then they shall find a way.

Why doesn't god just visit all of us. Put an end to religious squabbling's. Become an actual active part of our lives, instead of people projecting all their wants, needs, and desire onto a god construct?

[+Nuclear Wessel]

13 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

Why doesn't god just visit all of us. Put an end to religious squabbling's. Become an actual active part of our lives, instead of people projecting all their wants, needs, and desire onto a god construct?

GoD wOrKs In MyStErIoUs WaYs

[+Nuclear Wessel]

17 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Anyone with a religious mind, cannot, actually, hurt another being..

9/11, anybody?

[Will Due]

47 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

Why doesn't god just visit all of us. 

 

If one of your adult children continuously lets you know they despise you, would you go visit them?

 

 

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, Will Do said:

If one of your adult children continuously lets you know they despise you, would you go visit them?

There's a difference between 'not believing in' and 'despise'.

[Will Due]

26 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

There's a difference between 'not believing in' and 'despise'.

 

True and there's also a difference between not opening the door when he knocks, and letting him in.

 

 

[Crazy Horse]

4 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

9/11, anybody?

This isn't rocket science..

Those folks who did 9/11 cannot, by definition, be religious.

They may think they are, they may dress and act religiously, they may even have moments of real kindness and compassion, but anyone who deliberately hurts another being, simply isn't religious. They are something else..

Religion means unity on every conceivable level.

Unity of self - body, mind, spirit.

Unity of that self within society.

And ultimately a unity with GOD.

And nobody can claim unity if they are killing another being.