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The Impersonal Life


Crazy Horse

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On 3/31/2021 at 9:06 AM, ted hughes said:

I'm in my late 60s.

It has.

I wouldn't recommend it, tbh.

Really, why not?

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46 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

That is your belief and not mine, do bad guys exist yes in the real world, you bet. Yes the world is chaos even more so with the evolution of man but conflict is a personal choice. I don't believe in heaven or hell on earth or anywhere else and you have told me that I have to make a choice, what choice believe you or just keep moseying on in a life that I am content with? I didn't come here to change my or anyone else's belief system as I am interested in the why you believe, what do you believe. It is no different that some car guys talking cars,, this guy is bowtie, that guy is mopar and I took ford just to pizz them off and we would dog each others rides but knew what each of us put into those rides and respect that we were equals.

jmccr8

But its not just a belief, that is what I am trying to get-across.

It is a lived experience of life that anyone may know for themselves.

Of course one may wallow in self pity, if that's their choice.

But there is a way to a lasting contentment, to joy and blissfulness.

Its your choice Jay.. that's all Im saying.

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9 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

But its not just a belief, that is what I am trying to get-across.

It is a lived experience of life that anyone may know for themselves.

Hi Crazy Horse

It is a personal experience and that does not imply that all people have the same experience and that is my point.

Yes it is your personal belief.

9 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Of course one may wallow in self pity, if that's their choice.

But there is a way to a lasting contentment, to joy and blissfulness.

Its your choice Jay.. that's all Im saying.

I take offence with this as it is you projecting that I wallow in self pity and I do not, as well you are again inferring that I have to make a choice when it is obvious that I have made a choice and am content with that choice. I am not asking you to make a choice even though I do not agree with your construct and would rather discuss what that construct means to you and why it is important to you.

I have made it quite clear that I am not here to change my belief or yours but am willing to discuss it objectively.

jmccr8

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9 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Of course one may wallow in self pity, if that's their choice.

But there is a way to a lasting contentment, to joy and blissfulness.

There is apparently a price too for your lasting contentment and joy, as exemplified by your first sentence.  So no thanks, I'm not looking for your kind of lasting contentment, there are far superior options available.

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Describes me to a 'T'. My philosophy is "not my circus - not my monkeys". Let them do what they will and I'll just watch it all go by until it starts to affect me in a detrimental way, then, I could become aggravated and, possibly, dangerous. I suffer from depression and anxiety as a result of my expense paid vacation to SE Asia in 1968 and 1969 and tend to be overly aware of my surroundings, don't play well with others, and have a veeeeery short fuse for bullsh*t. My father (WWII vet) told me when I got on the bus to go to basic training, to not get too close to anyone because they might not be there tomorrow. For bad or worse, I think I've adhered to that credo. I don't have friends - I have 'acquaintances' and our paths occasionally cross for mutual benefit but that's as far as it goes. I'm happy knowing that when I'm gone, my ashes will be scattered on the on the high desert of southern California near where I was conceived and the rest of the world will never know I existed. Just like when you go camping - leave the woods like you found them as if you were never there.

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18 hours ago, GoldenWolf said:

I watched about 9 minutes and could clearly tell he is full of himself.  He talks about how awesome and powerful "God" is and how awesome it is to be connected to him, is clearly a dopamine rush from a co-narcissistic placebo effect.

Psalm 51:17   

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-spellbinding-bond-to-narcissists-and-psychopaths_b_57a4dbabe4b034b25894cc80

 

18 hours ago, GoldenWolf said:

I watched about 9 minutes and could clearly tell he is full of himself.  He talks about how awesome and powerful "God" is and how awesome it is to be connected to him, is clearly a dopamine rush from a co-narcissistic placebo effect.

Psalm 51:17   

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-spellbinding-bond-to-narcissists-and-psychopaths_b_57a4dbabe4b034b25894cc80

I also would steer clear of cults as this. 
 

I had concerns for CH, but he must walk his own path. I wish him the best.

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1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

There is apparently a price too for your lasting contentment and joy, as exemplified by your first sentence.  So no thanks, I'm not looking for your kind of lasting contentment, there are far superior options available.

Indeed, CH is selling and sounds like buying delusion. 
 

 

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11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

I think you are just projecting onto me, your own issues.. IMHO.

Good luck on your journey, I truly say may you find peace. :wub:

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The problem the swivel chair sanctimonious have on UM recruiting converts is not a paucity of open minds but a dearth of empty heads. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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An add to, in the Sufi and Jewish tradition there is a story about a King who asks his scribes to construct a single sentence to remind him to sober himself when he was happy and to cheer himself up when he was sad, they came up with this too shall pass”

Psychological freedom comes from accepting impermanence. 

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34 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The problem the swivel chair sanctimonious have on UM recruiting converts is not a paucity of open minds but a dearth of empty heads. 

I would say they do not practice what they preach, there in lies the distinction. They have lived so long in delusion, or anger, etc. that they have mindsets that roll in, speak of meaningless nonsense, delusion ( meaning no grasp of actuality as it is and anger ( taking folks off ignore to fight) etc. They are known by their fruits as one would say. IMHO, Without practice there by the  grace of god could walk me too. Lol

Edited by Sherapy
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10 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I would say they do not practice what they preach, there in lies the distinction. They have lived so long in delusion, or anger, etc. that they have mindsets that reflect delusion and anger. They are known by their fruits. IMHO, Without practice there by the  grace of god I could walk too. 

Their problem is seeing themselves as distinct and separate from the world, unaware they are already part of a greater whole and the only connection needing to be made is cognizance of this simple fact. We are already one with the Cosmos, formed of substances first ignited in the hearts of dying stars. Here, by the grace of god or the universe, I am, you are and all that is or ever will be.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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43 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Their problem is seeing themselves as distinct and separate from the world, unaware they are already part of a greater whole and the only connection needing to be made is cognizance of this simple fact. We are already one with the Cosmos, formed of substances first ignited in the hearts of dying stars. Here, by the grace of god or the universe, I am, you are and all that is or ever will be.

Indeed, one shifts to an interdependent perspective. This is not just Buddhism, or Christianity’s wisdom most spiritual paths and Religions and Psychology teach some version of this. 
 

One is interdependent, a part of it all, while enjoying uniqueness at the same time for ex: Integration in mindfulness,  to me. 

Edited by Sherapy
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11 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Crazy Horse

It is a personal experience and that does not imply that all people have the same experience and that is my point.

Yes it is your personal belief.

A lived experience is no longer a mere belief. But you are correct, not all people have the same experience, the reason being the difference in beliefs and the actions, reactions they elicit.

I take offence with this as it is you projecting that I wallow in self pity and I do not, as well you are again inferring that I have to make a choice when it is obvious that I have made a choice and am content with that choice. I am not asking you to make a choice even though I do not agree with your construct and would rather discuss what that construct means to you and why it is important to you.

I wasn't talking about you, I was simply making a point. I haven't said that you must make a choice, but that it is inevitable anyway, and so one may as well choose a happier existence than before.

I have made it quite clear that I am not here to change my belief or yours but am willing to discuss it objectively.

So lets discuss it objectively. 

Ones beliefs are manifested as experience. And ones experience may be positive, or negative, according to those original beliefs and perspectives.

jmccr8

And the greatest cause of all fear, and therefore all negativity, is this ego attachment.

Ones beliefs are manifested as thoughts, words, and deeds, and ultimately an experience.

As one believes, one acts, and one feels, and therefore one experiences life, both good and bad.

And one who acts from a place of love and kindness, of empathy and compassion, shall harvest the beautiful fruits of their labours.

I am sure this isn't an alien idea Jay. I am sure you have experienced this process many times already!

 

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12 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

There is apparently a price too for your lasting contentment and joy, as exemplified by your first sentence.  So no thanks, I'm not looking for your kind of lasting contentment, there are far superior options available.

What price are you talking about?

And what are these far superior options?

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11 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Good luck on your journey, I truly say may you find peace. :wub:

Thank you..

And I return the blessing, with every breath I take.

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12 hours ago, Mr Guitar said:

Describes me to a 'T'. My philosophy is "not my circus - not my monkeys". Let them do what they will and I'll just watch it all go by until it starts to affect me in a detrimental way, then, I could become aggravated and, possibly, dangerous. I suffer from depression and anxiety as a result of my expense paid vacation to SE Asia in 1968 and 1969 and tend to be overly aware of my surroundings, don't play well with others, and have a veeeeery short fuse for bullsh*t. My father (WWII vet) told me when I got on the bus to go to basic training, to not get too close to anyone because they might not be there tomorrow. For bad or worse, I think I've adhered to that credo. I don't have friends - I have 'acquaintances' and our paths occasionally cross for mutual benefit but that's as far as it goes. I'm happy knowing that when I'm gone, my ashes will be scattered on the on the high desert of southern California near where I was conceived and the rest of the world will never know I existed. Just like when you go camping - leave the woods like you found them as if you were never there.

I thank you for your post.

Spoken from the heart, it becomes very powerful.

 

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11 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Indeed, CH is selling and sounds like buying delusion. 
 

 

Would you care to expand on this statement?

 

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This all reminds me of a question I asked my father in law to get his goat. He's a pastor, so he often repeats that we should be dead to the world, and let Christ live through us.

So I asked if he was going to leave his wife, sell the house, give everything away, and go live a life of prayers in a hut somewhere. To which he said no. I then suggested he was living his own life rather then Christ's, to which he had a real hard time trying to find excuses.

Point being you can say you're not going to care, and just live a life of contemplation, but almost no one can actually manage it. We require money, housing, food... The world doesn't allow us to get away for more then minutes, sometimes hours, at a time.

People who say they do are either living like hermits, or just liars. The fact someone would talk about it should mean they don't qualify.

Edited by DieChecker
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5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

What price are you talking about?

That your spiritual beliefs unfortunately entail needing to believe that others who don't believe the way you do must have deficiencies ('wallowing in self-pity') or must be depressed/negative/fearful (your oh-so-educated opinions about atheists/atheism...).  That doesn't look like 'enlightenment' to me, more symptomatic of cognitive dissonance, and a massive Dunning-Kruger effect concerning the science of psychology.

That Jesus chap had/repeated some pretty good ideas, things that apply outside of just religion, and one of the best that is difficult to argue with is 'you will know them by their fruits'.  If one was to go by your fruits, apparently the Dharmic Way includes the most odious of spiritual traits:  self-righteousness.  My self-contentedness and 'spiritual beliefs' don't rely on you for instance being fearful and anxious, or my thinking you are a slave, etc, and is thus superior.  

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7 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

That your spiritual beliefs unfortunately entail needing to believe that others who don't believe the way you do must have deficiencies ('wallowing in self-pity') or must be depressed/negative/fearful (your oh-so-educated opinions about atheists/atheism...).  That doesn't look like 'enlightenment' to me, more symptomatic of cognitive dissonance, and a massive Dunning-Kruger effect concerning the science of psychology.

That Jesus chap had/repeated some pretty good ideas, things that apply outside of just religion, and one of the best that is difficult to argue with is 'you will know them by their fruits'.  If one was to go by your fruits, apparently the Dharmic Way includes the most odious of spiritual traits:  self-righteousness.  My self-contentedness and 'spiritual beliefs' don't rely on you for instance being fearful and anxious, or my thinking you are a slave, etc, and is thus superior.  

Excellent post, to yet another swivel chair prophet with his own brand of carrot and stick theology. Reading you is an educational experience, with your use of esoteric terms with which I'm unfamiliar and have to look up. I'll never fall victim to the D-K Effect at this rate. The exalted shall be humbled and the humbled, exalted.:tu:

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1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Reading you is an educational experience, with your use of esoteric terms with which I'm unfamiliar and have to look up. I'll never fall victim to the D-K Effect at this rate.

Thanks, although tbh a lot of my esoteric references are pretty esoteric to me also, I wouldn't go so far as to place it within anything as high-falutin as 'education'.  Although it's not that old of a concept I think the D-K effect has now become fairly standard issue in the ol' skepticism toolkit (and it's definitely justified to be skeptical ultimately about how big of an effect the D-K effect is anyway).  But you do run across examples of it, like here.

And totally agreed on the humility reference; CH, and MW and others too, are just missing one key qualification in their complimenting of their own belief systems:  "to me".  "The Dharmic Way provides the most self-contentedness of all belief systems.  To me.".  But when you include 'to me' then it's a much weaker statement; it's not that different than any other sermon whose 'rationale' is not much more than 'what's good for me must be good for you too', and it's worse counterpart, 'what you believe is bad'.  (and to be clear is different than a more well-meaning, 'this belief is meaningful to me, maybe it will be for you too', there's nothing wrong with that)

I've been thinking about this in the background and it hasn't cohered into a definite supported statement to me, but although the classic conflicts between science and religion usually revolve around biology or physics I wonder if the most intractable battle is concerning the science of psychology.  It's easy to wave off things like Genesis as myth but I wonder the extent to which some religious beliefs at least implicitly make claims of a psychological nature that supposedly apply to everyone as part of something more core to the belief.  Again I haven't thought this fully through, but that everyone is a sinner for instance, depending on how you take that it could be seen as a statement about the psychology of everyone, which is as much of a subject for science, not religion, as 'where did all the species come from' or 'how old is the earth'.  "Sin" can be a lot more complicated though because of all the supernatural stuff so tough to say anything too definite; I think there must be at least a few sinless people in the world, but that's because I don't at all agree that mere desires or having the wrong spiritual beliefs are sinful for example.  And although lots of even basic things about the Bible are esoteric to me, I don't know the extent to which Jesus argued that non-believers/sinners will all actually be unhappy or lead discontented lives here; on a personal level the drawbacks to some sins I didn't think were realized until later.  

Edited by Liquid Gardens
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4 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

That your spiritual beliefs unfortunately entail needing to believe that others who don't believe the way you do must have deficiencies ('wallowing in self-pity') or must be depressed/negative/fearful (your oh-so-educated opinions about atheists/atheism...).  That doesn't look like 'enlightenment' to me, more symptomatic of cognitive dissonance, and a massive Dunning-Kruger effect concerning the science of psychology.

That Jesus chap had/repeated some pretty good ideas, things that apply outside of just religion, and one of the best that is difficult to argue with is 'you will know them by their fruits'.  If one was to go by your fruits, apparently the Dharmic Way includes the most odious of spiritual traits:  self-righteousness.  My self-contentedness and 'spiritual beliefs' don't rely on you for instance being fearful and anxious, or my thinking you are a slave, etc, and is thus superior.  

No..

You may believe what you wish.. (I hope that is clear from now on?)

The way that you interpreted them the way you did, is your choice, not mine. 

My intentions are purely benign.

You are free, and I hope, that you live your life as you please, only, every action has a consequence, good, or bad, nice, or unpleasant, dependent upon the initial action, or reaction.

The point being, is that it is entirely down to ones own choices, ones own decisions, that cause such feelings..

Hope this helps with your future happy life.

I wish you nothing but contentment, happiness, joy and bliss....

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4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Excellent post, to yet another swivel chair prophet with his own brand of carrot and stick theology. Reading you is an educational experience, with your use of esoteric terms with which I'm unfamiliar and have to look up. I'll never fall victim to the D-K Effect at this rate. The exalted shall be humbled and the humbled, exalted.:tu:

If you have something to say against me, then at least say it to my face.

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7 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

The way that you interpreted them the way you did, is your choice, not mine. 

My intentions are purely benign.

You can hash that out with Crazy Horse from a little over a month ago:

Quote

This lie shall infect the minds of atheists to some degree or other, leading one to some degree of depression, negativity and even insanity.

Quote

No, to some degree or other, the atheistic mind is poisoned with untruth.

And what is worse, has no way out.

Etcetera.  Can you feel the happiness and joy? 

Like I said it ain't about intentions, it's about fruits.

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