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The Impersonal Life


Crazy Horse

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2 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

You can hash that out with Crazy Horse from a little over a month ago:

Etcetera.  Can you feel the happiness and joy? 

Like I said it ain't about intentions, it's about fruits.

I know my fruits only too well.

And the smiles, the gratitude, the love I get from complete strangers is....heartening, to say the least.

You may, still, interpret my words anyway you wish, that is still your choice..

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8 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

You can hash that out with Crazy Horse from a little over a month ago:

Etcetera.  Can you feel the happiness and joy? 

Like I said it ain't about intentions, it's about fruits.

There is no hatred in my words at all..

The fact that you see them as such, says more about you, then me.

But if you disagree with me, that, the atheistic belief may lead to depression, dependent upon the actual extent that it is believed, then by all means discuss that with me..

I am all ears...:P

 

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51 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

The fact that you see them as such, says more about you, then me.

I'm confident that the average person would have trouble finding the joyful intent in those quotes.  You keep taking your eye off those fruits.

54 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

But if you disagree with me, that, the atheistic belief may lead to depression, dependent upon the actual extent that it is believed, then by all means discuss that with me..

Already did, you didn't have anything to back it up except your faith that you have special psychological insight into others.   Doesn't leave much to discuss, it's nothing but an opinion. 

To your OP:

Quote

This impersonal life can be summed-up as, being in the world, but not a part of it.

Eg, one doesn't get caught-up in the drama, but responds out of a cool and calm understanding and wisdom.

I'd argue that it's the wisdom part that is lacking here, the wisdom to recognize the obvious, that people's specific needs and cognition are not all the same, and that, thus, you should be emphasizing humility instead of your questionable wisdom.

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23 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I'm confident that the average person would have trouble finding the joyful intent in those quotes.  You keep taking your eye off those fruits.

The joyful intent, is, the recognition of the problem, and so, the solution too.

Already did, you didn't have anything to back it up except your faith that you have special psychological insight into others.   Doesn't leave much to discuss, it's nothing but an opinion. 

If one believes that life is an accident, that life has no meaning other than procreation, then life shall become depressive...discuss.

To your OP:

I'd argue that it's the wisdom part that is lacking here, the wisdom to recognize the obvious, that people's specific needs and cognition are not all the same, and that, thus, you should be emphasizing humility instead of your questionable wisdom.

Do you not need food, air, love, affection, clothes and shelter?

Our needs have more in common, than not.

 

LG.

You are free to believe in what you want, as we all are, yet beliefs lead to thoughts, words, and actions. These in turn shall lead to consequences.

These consequences will lead to feelings, emotions... states of being.

And these shall lead one to either happiness, or fear, or remorse etc..

And therefore, our life is our hands, or minds, so to speak.

Can we agree on this much?

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13 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Would you care to expand on this statement?

 


 

At times, your posts seem to be woo based as opposed to in tune with the existential sobering facts such as, things like we all will die, life constantly changes and there is suffering ( meaning an underlying dissatisfaction with ones life) that undergirds and motivates one to seek escape, repression, distraction or thought micromanagement or filling ones head with woo in the futile quest to live only in eternal bliss or happiness. It is not always implicit in your posts that you apply discernment, not that you don’t have it. 

Just my two cents, not gospel. All the best.

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Sherapy said:


 

At times, your posts seem to be woo based as opposed to in tune with the existential sobering facts such as, things like we all will die, life constantly changes and there is suffering ( meaning an underlying dissatisfaction with ones life) that undergirds and motivates one to seek escape, repression, distraction or thought micromanagement or filling ones head with woo in the futile quest to live only in eternal bliss or happiness. It is not always implicit in your posts that you apply discernment, not that you don’t have it. 

Just my two cents, not gospel. All the best.

 

 

 

I agree with you completely, and that is why I have stopped responding to his comments. I have had conversations with him, and even defended him to others in these threads. But, I have come to the conclusion it is attention that he seeks, and unless he decides to act with honesty and sincerity this will be the last time I give him any attention at all.:(

Peace

Edited by Manwon Lender
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19 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I agree with you completely, and that is why I have stopped responding to his comments. I have had conversations with him, and even defended him to others in these threads. But, I have come to the conclusion it is attention that he seeks, and unless he decides to act with honesty and sincerity this will be the time I give him any attention at all.:(

Peace

A must for any mindfulness path is ruthless honesty and it begins with reality as it is. 
 

Mindfulness is not about removing thoughts from our minds, even the judgmental thoughts. It is about knowing when we’re thinking and recognizing thoughts as momentary events that pass like clouds. 

 Mindfulness practice/meditation is not about having unusual or transcendent experiences. Albeit weird, bizarre, trippy, fascinating, maybe even kooky weird experiences may, in fact, occur while one is meditating. The thing is with the brain it is possible to have any kind of experience imaginable, the key is to not attach, or desire them or read nonsense into them or pass them off as facts, like a few posters on here do, I am not going to mention names, I just will say one causes harm to others and self when they lie. 

 The point is particular kinds of experiences are not the goal of meditating. One is seeking a way to relate to all of ones experiences, regardless of their quality or content.

Edited by Sherapy
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21 minutes ago, Sherapy said:


 

At times, your posts seem to be woo based as opposed to in tune with the existential sobering facts such as, things like we all will die, life constantly changes and there is suffering ( meaning an underlying dissatisfaction with ones life) that undergirds and motivates one to seek escape, repression, distraction or thought micromanagement or filling ones head with woo in the futile quest to live only in eternal bliss or happiness. It is not always implicit in your posts that you apply discernment, not that you don’t have it. 

Just my two cents, not gospel. All the best.

 

 

 

If anyone thinks that my posts are only woo, then I suggest that one may re-read my posts..

It is far from futile, to gain strength, happiness, comfort, and sanctuary, within GOD.

But, each to their own.

Your choice.

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18 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I agree with you completely, and that is why I have stopped responding to his comments. I have had conversations with him, and even defended him to others in these threads. But, I have come to the conclusion it is attention that he seeks, and unless he decides to act with honesty and sincerity this will be the time I give him any attention at all.:(

Peace

Your choice.

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1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

A must for any mindfulness path is ruthless honesty and it begins with reality as it is. 
 

Mindfulness is not about removing thoughts from our minds, even the judgmental thoughts. It is about knowing when we’re thinking and recognizing thoughts as momentary events that pass like clouds. 

 Mindfulness practice/meditation is not about having unusual or transcendent experiences. Albeit weird, bizarre, trippy, fascinating, maybe even kooky weird experiences may, in fact, occur while one is meditating. The thing is with the brain it is possible to have any kind of experience imaginable, the key is to not attach, or desire them. 

 The point is particular kinds of experiences are not the goal of meditating. One is seeking a way to relate to all of ones experiences, regardless of their quality or content.

Mindfulness is about reaching the gates of Heaven..

Then, all thoughts, notions, beliefs and ideas, are simply left behind.

Dropped.

Just.

Be.

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30 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I agree with you completely, and that is why I have stopped responding to his comments. I have had conversations with him, and even defended him to others in these threads. But, I have come to the conclusion it is attention that he seeks, and unless he decides to act with honesty and sincerity this will be the time I give him any attention at all.:(

Peace

So to which parts, exactly, have I acted without honesty, and sincerity?

 

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And as for people like @onlookerofmayhem who can only laugh at me.

Who don't have the guts to even talk to me.

Like @Hammerclaw too.

Pathetic, weak, cowards, no shows, melts..

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42 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Mindfulness is about reaching the gates of Heaven..

Then, all thoughts, notions, beliefs and ideas, are simply left behind.

Dropped.

Just.

Be.

This is not based on facts of an honest study, this is your opinion. Which is fine, but you don’t even meditate. Correct? 
 

I asked you on my thread if you meditated, you said no. 
 

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1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

This is not based on facts of an honest study, this is your opinion. Which is fine, but you don’t even meditate. Correct? 
 

I asked you on my thread if you meditated, you said no. 
 

No, that is incorrect, I have said that I meditate..

Not so well, but I try.

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40 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

And as for people like @onlookerofmayhem who can only laugh at me.

Who don't have the guts to even talk to me.

Like @Hammerclaw too.

Pathetic, weak, cowards, no shows, melts..

CH, maybe it is not your intention but you are starting to sound like another poster who frequents UM and spins a lot of woo.

You even ask for feedback, it is your thread right? Then you lash out at Onlooker and Hammerclaw for giving honest feedback. 

Or is this thread only about what you think. There are a lot of reasons a person laughs. Oh enlightened one why are you angry? This is a much better exploration and potential for growth from the feedback. Your example is mindlessness not mindfulness in this response. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

No, that is incorrect, I have said that I meditate..

Not so well, but I try.

To know mind you must meditate in some form. 

 

Do you pray or contemplate? We can observe that you are new and gullible what you see as insultive feedback is intended to hi light that you might want to cultivate skepticism and discrimination. But it’s just feedback, not gospel. 


 

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Just now, Sherapy said:

CH, maybe it is your intention but you are starting to sound like another poster who frequents UM and spins a lot of woo.

You even ask for feedback, it is your thread right? Then you lash out at Onlooker and Hammerclaw for giving honest feedback. 

Or is this thread only about what you think. There are a lot of reasons a person laughs. Oh enlightened one why are you angry? This is a much better exploration and potential for growth from the feedback. Your demonstrate mindlessness not mindfulness in this response. 

 

So, do I meditate, or are you just trying to change the subject, to make your ego feel better?

 

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2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Thank you for your honesty, I do see potential. 

To know mind you must meditate in some form. 

 

Do you pray or contemplate? 


 

Yes, I pray, and meditate, and on occasion, I even contemplate too..

But thanks for your blessings Syrupy.

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4 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

So, do I meditate, or are you just trying to change the subject, to make your ego feel better?

 

The answer is not really, but you have tried it. Correct?

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2 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Yes, I pray, and meditate, and on occasion, I even contemplate too..

But thanks for your blessings Syrupy.

All the best CH. 

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5 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

All the best CH. 

Thank you.

And may you know the truth, and karma, and justice, sooner, rather than later..

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2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

So to which parts, exactly, have I acted without honesty, and sincerity?

 

In opinion my you have a habit of trivializing questions you are asked, or giving a response that is off the hip because you don't have an answer for the question or you don't know how to respond. I have never trivialize your belief in Spirituality, I have never said that my beliefs are superior or that anyone should follow my point of view. Look at the response you made to a question I asked you in the link below for example.

Your comments are not a response, they are an obvious attempt to avoid the question asked because you don't really have an answer. Rather than make the comments you did, i suggest that it would be better to say That you would have to think about it or that you are uncertain. This is a common occurrence in your responses to me and to others, that is why people laugh at you and don't take your comments seriously. It's always better to say, I don't know or I am unsure than to throw out comments that do not sincerely apply to the question asked.

I for one know that I am not wise, however, I am striving to become wise some day. I also know that I do not have all the answers, and that is why when I respond to others When asked questions that my answer is according to my understanding . Like I have said many times I am a student just like the person who asked me the question, and that my comments are based on the teachings as I understand them. I realize I could be wrong because I can misinterpreted things I am learning. This is why I also supply links to the information.

in this way the person can see where my information is coming from and then they can make a decision on their own whether they agree and can understand my point of view or they can disagree and give me their point view. In some cases the person who asked me the question has shown me that I have misinterpreted the teachings and I end up learning something myself that I would have missed without their help. Ego, fear of embarrassment, or simply forgetting that these discussions are designed to enlighten each of us and to help each of us become more spiritual in our beliefs is a mistake in my opinion.

 In my belief, we are all involved in these discussions to learn from each other, true seekers of knowledge will not place their views above another's. We are all teachers and we are all students and by keeping that in mind none of us should issue an ultimatum to another, there are no absolutes in any of these discussions.

JIMO

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2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

You are free to believe in what you want, as we all are, yet beliefs lead to thoughts, words, and actions. These in turn shall lead to consequences.

These consequences will lead to feelings, emotions... states of being.

And these shall lead one to either happiness, or fear, or remorse etc..

And therefore, our life is our hands, or minds, so to speak.

Can we agree on this much?

Change all instances of 'shall/will' to 'can'/'could'.  I don't think our life or the contents of our minds are 100% a matter of choice and thus are not 'in our hands' in that way.  What you are missing in your discussion of consequences is that Idea A introduced to Person 1 may result in something very different from Idea A introduced to Person 2.

Quote

If one believes that life is an accident, that life has no meaning other than procreation, then life shall become depressive...discuss.

The above is not a description of atheism.  If you think you have a point there, "support" comes before "discuss":  what's your proof or even evidence of this?  Depression is an area of scientific study, you should start there.

To turn this around:

People's minds are vastly different.  Cognition and emotion are very complex.  To just think that everyone will be happy by the same idea is not evidenced, let alone that thinking a certain idea will make life depressive.  These are ultimately psychological/scientific questions, yet you aren't referencing any science to support your position.  To you the Dharmic way fulfills you and give you happiness and purpose; to me the idea looks like a security blanket (which is not saying that it is just a security blanket to you), it looks like just another supernatural fantasy (karma) to make people feel better about life.  Given that's how I think and feel about it, does it sound like if I could actually believe it to be true that it's going to remove depression?  It's healthy and enlightening to believe in something that you think is akin to a security blanket for a child scared of the dark?  That doesn't sound mentally or emotionally healthy at all to me, sounds very dissonant.  "Can we agree on this much?"

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

Pathetic, weak, cowards, no shows, melts..

As I said, I think the main issue is your lack of understanding about psychology.  If you're struggling with something as basic as, 'why won't people I insult discuss things with me?', then you are several steps removed from being able to assess the mindset of atheists with any proficiency.

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14 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

In opinion you have a habit of trivializing questions you are asked, or giving a response that is off the hip because you don't have an answer for the question or you don't know how to respond. I have never trivialize your belief in Spirituality, I have never said that my beliefs are superior or that anyone should follow my point of view. Look at the response you made to a question I asked you in the link below for example.

Your comments are not a response, they are an obvious attempt to avoid the question asked because you don't really have an answer. Rather than make the comments you did, i suggest that it would be better to say That you would have to think about it or that you are uncertain. This is a common occurrence in your responses to me and to others, that is why people laugh at you and don't take your comments seriously. It's always better to say, I don't know or I am unsure than to throw out comments that do not sincerely apply to the question asked.

I for one know that I am not wise, however, I am striving to become wise some day. I also know that I do not have all the answers, and that is why when I respond to others When asked questions that my answer is according to my understanding . Like I have said many times I am a student just like the person who asked me the question, and that my comments are based on the teachings as I understand them. I realize I could be wrong because I can misinterpreted things I am learning. This is why I also supply links to the information.

in this way the person can see where my information is coming from and then they can make a decision on their own whether they agree and can understand my point of view or they can disagree and give me their point view. In some cases the person who asked me the question has shown me that I have misinterpreted the teachings and I end up learning something myself that I would have missed without their help. Ego, fear of embarrassment, or simply forgetting that these discussions are designed to enlighten each of us and to help each of us become more spiritual in our beliefs is a mistake in my opinion. In my belief, we are all involved in these discussions to learn from each other, true seekers of knowledge will not place their views above another's. We are all teachers and we are all students and by keeping that in mind none of us should issue an ultimatum to another, there are no absolutes in any of these discussions.

JIMO

I think you demonstrate wisdom in this post amongst others. 

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2 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I think you demonstrate wisdom in this post amongst others. 

:blush:

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