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Elon Musk posts 'strongest argument against aliens'

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the13bats

I do not believe aliens were, are or have ever been here however in the vastness of the universe there could somewhere be a cynic just like me, we just dont know.

 

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M 7

I always tend to find the grainy photograph argument to be flawed. I mean we’re talking about taking a picture on object that may be moving at veryfast speeds, moving in an erratic manner, is almost certainly very far away and you wasn’t prepared to capture it because it's an unexpected event. Even the best photographer on the planet would need to have the right equipment set up and suitable environmental  conditions to get a good picture so don’t expect to get a great photo of a ufo - extraterrestrial or terrestrial - just become the mobile phone you have in your pocket comes equipped with a 42 megapixel camera sensor.

I daresay there’s a chance that Musk with his wealth, power and position within the aerospace industry would stand a chance to be in the loop if extraterrestrial visitations really are occurring but at the same time I don’t think he’d necessarily be forthcoming about them. My points being that the quality of photographic evidence neither proves or disproves the phenomenon and Musk's statements are not going to change very many opinions. Those that are inclined to believe or are at least open to the possibility will continue to do so and disbelievers will remain skeptics.

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Seti42
Posted (edited)

His camera resolution graph is wrong. Film had much higher resolution than digital until pretty recently, with 10+ MP cameras becoming commonplace. Large format films (4x5, 8x10, etc.) still outperform all but the most advanced/expensive CCDs too. Megapixel count, AKA 'resolution' also doesn't mean much if the lens/lens glass is of poor quality. That's one reason why a Canon DSLR with an L series lens, but only a 20MP CCD, takes better pics than a phone with a 40MP camera in it.

That said, I do mostly agree. I highly doubt aliens are visiting earth. It may have happened, it may happen in the future, and I wouldn't rule out them sending probes out like we do (but, you know, better and more technologically advanced).

 It's just literally astronomically unlikely that we'd ever witness aliens or alien tech.

Edited by Seti42
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the13bats
56 minutes ago, M 7 said:

I always tend to find the grainy photograph argument to be flawed. I mean we’re talking about taking a picture on object that may be moving at veryfast speeds, moving in an erratic manner, is almost certainly very far away and you wasn’t prepared to capture it because it's an unexpected event. Even the best photographer on the planet would need to have the right equipment set up and suitable environmental  conditions to get a good picture so don’t expect to get a great photo of a ufo - extraterrestrial or terrestrial - just become the mobile phone you have in your pocket comes equipped with a 42 megapixel camera sensor.

I daresay there’s a chance that Musk with his wealth, power and position within the aerospace industry would stand a chance to be in the loop if extraterrestrial visitations really are occurring but at the same time I don’t think he’d necessarily be forthcoming about them. My points being that the quality of photographic evidence neither proves or disproves the phenomenon and Musk's statements are not going to change very many opinions. Those that are inclined to believe or are at least open to the possibility will continue to do so and disbelievers will remain skeptics.

I can be up in the booth at the club, dark, lights flashing fog blowing and i start a mosh pit, my old note 5 will take stills or video which i have done from that booth good enough to know who is who, to see what they are wearing etc, far better than most UFO pix.

In this day and age making excuses for crap UFO pictures is weak, millions of people holding their cameras they have no issues taking stunning selfies to placate that ego no reason that UFO pic should look like hell.

I see more reasons for a man in musks place if he was in with aliens to say so.

No, at this point photos will not solve the question are aliens here so keep the blurry pics and stories lacking proof coming. 

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astrobeing
12 minutes ago, Seti42 said:

His camera resolution graph is wrong. Film had much higher resolution than digital until pretty recently, with 10+ MP cameras becoming commonplace.

As someone who has scanned hundreds of frames of old 35mm film, I can tell you the resolution of film varies greatly. A lot of negative film from the 70s and 80s was soft and grainy in 2000x3000 pixel scans but some reversal film looked great at 3000x4500. High speed film or film pushed a stop looked terrible.

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South Alabam

If Aliens were to land anywhere in the United States, they would be apprehended by the U.S Military. Their vehicle would be taken away for reverse engineering, and the Aliens would be stored away to be studied and interrogated, and any citizen who witnessed it would be visited by the men in black.

So, If I were an Alien, I wouldn't land here either.

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Myles
4 hours ago, the13bats said:

I do not believe aliens were, are or have ever been here however in the vastness of the universe there could somewhere be a cynic just like me, we just dont know.

 

Me too.   I don't think aliens were ever here, certainly not in recent years.  

 

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Seti42
38 minutes ago, astrobeing said:

As someone who has scanned hundreds of frames of old 35mm film, I can tell you the resolution of film varies greatly. A lot of negative film from the 70s and 80s was soft and grainy in 2000x3000 pixel scans but some reversal film looked great at 3000x4500. High speed film or film pushed a stop looked terrible.

True, I was speaking generally.

B&W films (especially fine grained slow speed stuff like Kodak's Technical Pan) and color slide films definitely scanned better than typical color negative film and fast B&W films.

I've also scanned my share of film, worked in chemical darkrooms off and on since the 90's, and switched to digital in about 2007 when I got my first DSLR.

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M 7
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, the13bats said:

I can be up in the booth at the club, dark, lights flashing fog blowing and i start a mosh pit, my old note 5 will take stills or video which i have done from that booth good enough to know who is who, to see what they are wearing etc, far better than most UFO pix.

In this day and age making excuses for crap UFO pictures is weak, millions of people holding their cameras they have no issues taking stunning selfies to placate that ego no reason that UFO pic should look like hell.

I see more reasons for a man in musks place if he was in with aliens to say so.

No, at this point photos will not solve the question are aliens here so keep the blurry pics and stories lacking proof coming. 

Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m not trying to insult you as I’m far from a pro photographer myself but...  That was spoken like somebody that’s either never owned a DSLR camera or if they have have they’ve never progressed beyond taking photos in auto mode. If you think taking photos and video of people inside a building that still has flashing lights  or taking a selfie is the same as picturing something high in the sky that could be many miles away then try taking that old note 5 out and pointing it at the moon and see how much detail you pick up. You'll get a bright blob at best.

Mobile phones are the predominant type of camera's in use on the planet. The majority of them rely on digital zoom, and even those that have an optical zoom don’t offer that much of an improvement. I mean seriously, how many people do you see carrying a mobile phone with a long lens attached to it? Plus it’s just not even about the zoom, you still need to have the right aperture and shutter speed settings to take decent quality photos of any high speed flying object.

Now I’m not saying that extraterrestrials exist, I hope they do but I’m yet to see compelling evidence that convinces me they really are visiting earth but obviously UFO's are a real phenomena. By definition they’re just unidentified flying objects and It's unrealistic to assume that every one of those videos are fake. You can’t say they’re proof of an extraterrestrial presence on Earth but you can’t necessarily tell if something is a bird, a weather balloon or Chinese lantern either.

Now if your fancy dan iPhone 12 or Galaxy S20 or whatever can’t even  take conclusive photos of bog standard man made and natural phenomena at distance and high up in the sky then how can you declare the absence of quality photos of unnatural extraterrestrial objects as proof that they don’t exist? You can't, that’s a false dichotomy and trust me, a man as intelligent as Elon Musk is smart enough to know when he's relying on  a bifurcation fallacy to make a point. 

Edited by M 7
To correct a Siri ‘Autocorrect'
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the13bats
22 minutes ago, M 7 said:

Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m not trying to insult you as I’m far from a pro photographer myself but...  That was spoken like somebody that’s either never owned a DSLR camera or if they have have they’ve never progressed beyond taking photos in auto mode. If you think taking photos and video of people inside a building that still has flashing lights  or taking a selfie is the same as picturing something high in the sky that could be many miles away then try taking that old note 5 out and pointing it at the moon and see how much detail you pick up. You'll get a bright blob at best.

Mobile phones are the predominant type of camera's in use on the planet. The majority of them rely on digital zoom, and even those that have an optical zoom don’t offer that much of an improvement. I mean seriously, how many people do you see carrying a mobile phone with a long lens attached to it? Plus it’s just not even about the zoom, you still need to have the right aperture and shutter speed settings to take decent quality photos of any high speed flying object.

Now I’m not saying that extraterrestrials exist, I hope they do but I’m yet to see compelling evidence that convinces me they really are visiting earth but obviously UFO's are a real phenomena. By definition they’re just I identified flying objects and It's unrealistic to assume that every one of those videos are fake. You can’t say they’re proof of an extraterrestrial presence on Earth but you can’t necessarily tell if something is a bird, a weather balloon or Chinese lantern either.

Now if your fancy dan iPhone 12 or Galaxy S20 or whatever can’t even  take conclusive photos of bog standard man made and natural phenomena at distance and high up in the sky then how can you declare the absence of quality photos of unnatural extraterrestrial objects as proof that they don’t exist? You can't, that’s a false dichotomy and trust me, a man as intelligent as Elon Musk is smart enough to know when he's relying on  a bifurcation fallacy to make a point.

Dont take this the wrong im not trying to insult you but i stopped reading after the first few sentences.

I made a point and the simple fact is more than ever there are more and better cameras out there, not all note 5s and astronomers both hobbyist and pro looking up with cams and just no viable excuses not to have good pictures better than grainy out of focus blobs which is pretty much all we get.

 

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M 7
1 hour ago, the13bats said:

Dont take this the wrong im not trying to insult you but i stopped reading after the first few sentences.

I made a point and the simple fact is more than ever there are more and better cameras out there, not all note 5s and astronomers both hobbyist and pro looking up with cams and just no viable excuses not to have good pictures better than grainy out of focus blobs which is pretty much all we get.

 

Then I apologise because clearly I did insult you. My point being that I’m not an expert photographer either. I own a DSLR, I do step outside of my comfort zone from time to an dip into the manual settings but if I’m doing something particularly advanced I need to google the settings and I'll get mixed results. As photographer I’m no professional and somebody that is could come on here and rip my knowledge on the subject apart, as a hobbyist photographer I’m average at best but in comparison to the majority of my friends and family I look like a pro despite being anything but. That’s my point the majority of us aren’t professional photographers, as I said mobile devices are now the most common type of camera on the planet.

I also suggested that you try something which take your phone outside and take a photo of the moon. That’s an object that looks huge in the sky, you can see a lot of detail on it with the naked eye and from our perspective it appears still so it’s easy to find in a camera viewfinder. Now take a picture of it and see if you can get anything more than a bright blurry blob. Now of course it’s possible to take a great picture of the moon with a camera but you'll have to use the right settings and if you want that picture to be crisp you’re going to need to have you’re camera attached to a tripod as well,

Now hypothetically speaking let’s assume that a large proportion of ufo photos are fake, let’s say that an equally large proportion of sighting are natural phenomena or commonplace manmade objects and that then there’s a small percentage that might be classified manmade devices or craft. What if just a tiny infinitesimal amount of those sighting were really extraterrestrial vehicles. What are the chances that witness is quick enough to take a picture. If they do take the picture what are the chances that it's somebody with the right equipment, settings,  time, conditions  and  knowhow to get that killer shot? Probably pretty small and if we were to get a pic that looked clear enough we live in the day and age in which great photo editing software can be found on a phone so then it falls into the category of too good to be true'.

Here's another though experiment. We know for sure that at least some ufo sightings and photos are of classified military aircraft. There are people that will take all sorts of high tech equipment to places like the perimeter of Area 51 where you can observe strange moving craft high in the sky doing all kinds of crazy manoeuvres. Let’s assume that these are all 100%  terrestrial devices as there’s no real evidence that they’re not. Now ask yourself why do we not have really great photos of all these classified USAF experimental crafts? That we don’t have clear photos of them doesn’t mean they don’t exist, it’s pretty much a given that there are still top secret aircraft out there that’s not been revealed to the public. Nor does the failure to capture clear photos of these devices prove that they must be extraterrestrial in origin either. The simple explanation is just that they’re bloody difficult to photograph even with top of the range equipment.

Thats the main point I’m trying to make - that the absence of clear photos is not surprising therefore it doesn’t in my opinion amount to proof either way in this debate. I would like to apologise again though because clearly my poor attempt at a punchy opening to my reply didn’t come across well and I apologise for the perceived insult.

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the13bats
6 minutes ago, M 7 said:

Then I apologise because clearly I did insult you. My point being that I’m not an expert photographer either. I own a DSLR, I do step outside of my comfort zone from time to an dip into the manual settings but if I’m doing something particularly advanced I need to google the settings and I'll get mixed results. As photographer I’m no professional and somebody that is could come on here and rip my knowledge on the subject apart, as a hobbyist photographer I’m average at best but in comparison to the majority of my friends and family I look like a pro despite being anything but. That’s my point the majority of us aren’t professional photographers, as I said mobile devices are now the most common type of camera on the planet.

I also suggested that you try something which take your phone outside and take a photo of the moon. That’s an object that looks huge in the sky, you can see a lot of detail on it with the naked eye and from our perspective it appears still so it’s easy to find in a camera viewfinder. Now take a picture of it and see if you can get anything more than a bright blurry blob. Now of course it’s possible to take a great picture of the moon with a camera but you'll have to use the right settings and if you want that picture to be crisp you’re going to need to have you’re camera attached to a tripod as well,

Now hypothetically speaking let’s assume that a large proportion of ufo photos are fake, let’s say that an equally large proportion of sighting are natural phenomena or commonplace manmade objects and that then there’s a small percentage that might be classified manmade devices or craft. What if just a tiny infinitesimal amount of those sighting were really extraterrestrial vehicles. What are the chances that witness is quick enough to take a picture. If they do take the picture what are the chances that it's somebody with the right equipment, settings,  time, conditions  and  knowhow to get that killer shot? Probably pretty small and if we were to get a pic that looked clear enough we live in the day and age in which great photo editing software can be found on a phone so then it falls into the category of too good to be true'.

Here's another though experiment. We know for sure that at least some ufo sightings and photos are of classified military aircraft. There are people that will take all sorts of high tech equipment to places like the perimeter of Area 51 where you can observe strange moving craft high in the sky doing all kinds of crazy manoeuvres. Let’s assume that these are all 100%  terrestrial devices as there’s no real evidence that they’re not. Now ask yourself why do we not have really great photos of all these classified USAF experimental crafts? That we don’t have clear photos of them doesn’t mean they don’t exist, it’s pretty much a given that there are still top secret aircraft out there that’s not been revealed to the public. Nor does the failure to capture clear photos of these devices prove that they must be extraterrestrial in origin either. The simple explanation is just that they’re bloody difficult to photograph even with top of the range equipment.

Thats the main point I’m trying to make - that the absence of clear photos is not surprising therefore it doesn’t in my opinion amount to proof either way in this debate. I would like to apologise again though because clearly my poor attempt at a punchy opening to my reply didn’t come across well and I apologise for the perceived insult.

You do not know me or you would know that i do not get insulted or take anything anyone posts on any forum seriously, i do not know you so this is a fault of mine to assume since most trolls open with a punchy remark like that you were just trolling for reaction.

I get it you have all kinds of reasons you think its okay we do not have basically any good UFO pictures, one glaring reason is because in the last few decades better pictures show without question it is just a balloon,  bird plane whatever so a lot more pictures are weeded out as prosaic and never get this far, hence why numbers of pictures presented has dropped.

The ones that do get this far are the blurry out of focus crap, nothing that looks like it could be a craft capable of interstellar travel yet people do take great pictures of other things in rhe sky just not UFOs.

OIP.A2KpzFrZ5-XvIzQcsPu7WwHaE9?w=186&h=1

OIP.QiSYiC1Y9X_55L31yLzVpAHaE7?w=190&h=1

 

The fact we do not have good UFO pictures just shows me there is nothing there to take a good picture of, good UFO pics are identified and there are no aliens flying in our skies pictures and there should be.

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khol
2 hours ago, the13bats said:

The fact we do not have good UFO pictures

Bats...what the hell is this?   

352px--FLIR1_Official_UAP_Footage_from_the_USG_for_Public_Release.webm.jpg

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the13bats
7 minutes ago, khol said:

Bats...what the hell is this?   

352px--FLIR1_Official_UAP_Footage_from_the_USG_for_Public_Release.webm.jpg

wheres chrlzs hes the photography expert in these parts.

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khol
21 minutes ago, the13bats said:

wheres chrlzs hes the photography expert in these parts.

I should have stated there was no sarcasm intended. And I did'nt quote chrizs. I asked you a question and wanted your opinion

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the13bats
22 minutes ago, khol said:

I should have stated there was no sarcasm intended. And I did'nt quote chrizs. I asked you a question and wanted your opinion

Okay slick,

Its a black oval dot on some grey screen.

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khol
1 minute ago, the13bats said:

Okay slick,

Its a black oval dot on some grey screen.

Ok thats a step Im impressed.We've established theres something there. Can you elaborate at all?.. Blackoval dot must account for something?

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Dejarma
7 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Okay slick,

Its a black oval dot on some grey screen.

it's a good ufo pic, bats me ol' mate- open your mind/ think outside the box then you'll get it ;)

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the13bats

Sorry guys, not for me, its a black dot to me i could open my mind enough my brains fall out and its still a black dot,

However, if you guys say its an unidentified flying object then it very well might be, as in that pic it could be a bird, plane or superman no way to tell what the hell it is.

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Dejarma
2 minutes ago, the13bats said:

However, if you guys say its an unidentified flying object then it very well might be

it's an alien space craft

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ThereWeAreThen
1 hour ago, khol said:

Bats...what the hell is this?   

352px--FLIR1_Official_UAP_Footage_from_the_USG_for_Public_Release.webm.jpg

To be fair, out of all of the UFO pictures I've seen, this is the only one thats truely baffled me. I'm no expert in photography nor am I an expert at anything to be quite honest but this photo plus the video did make me think "wow". Doesn't mean I think its an alien ship.

It could possibly be a black project which those pilots were unaware of.

P.S. I know this was for Bats but I wanted to put my 2 pence in. :P

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Timothy
2 hours ago, khol said:

Bats...what the hell is this?   

352px--FLIR1_Official_UAP_Footage_from_the_USG_for_Public_Release.webm.jpg

Probably something with a mundane explanation, this had been beat to death in multiple threads.

Obviously not enough data to resolve what it actually is, but there are likely mundane explanations.

Read through the past threads on this topic if you’re interested. If you can come up with and support a new reason as to why these videos show anything more than something mundane, feel free to elaborate. Anything more than mundane has so far been pure speculation and hearsay.

Refer to potential explanations section of the Wiki page. It gives a brief summary.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon_UFO_videos

There’s simply not enough data to determine what is in the footage, but likely something mundane.

 

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khol
3 minutes ago, Timothy said:

not enough data to resolve what it actually is

and the mystery prevails

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Horta
6 hours ago, M 7 said:

Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m not trying to insult you as I’m far from a pro photographer myself but...  That was spoken like somebody that’s either never owned a DSLR camera or if they have have they’ve never progressed beyond taking photos in auto mode. If you think taking photos and video of people inside a building that still has flashing lights  or taking a selfie is the same as picturing something high in the sky that could be many miles away then try taking that old note 5 out and pointing it at the moon and see how much detail you pick up. You'll get a bright blob at best.

Mobile phones are the predominant type of camera's in use on the planet. The majority of them rely on digital zoom, and even those that have an optical zoom don’t offer that much of an improvement. I mean seriously, how many people do you see carrying a mobile phone with a long lens attached to it? Plus it’s just not even about the zoom, you still need to have the right aperture and shutter speed settings to take decent quality photos of any high speed flying object.

Now I’m not saying that extraterrestrials exist, I hope they do but I’m yet to see compelling evidence that convinces me they really are visiting earth but obviously UFO's are a real phenomena. By definition they’re just unidentified flying objects and It's unrealistic to assume that every one of those videos are fake. You can’t say they’re proof of an extraterrestrial presence on Earth but you can’t necessarily tell if something is a bird, a weather balloon or Chinese lantern either.

Now if your fancy dan iPhone 12 or Galaxy S20 or whatever can’t even  take conclusive photos of bog standard man made and natural phenomena at distance and high up in the sky then how can you declare the absence of quality photos of unnatural extraterrestrial objects as proof that they don’t exist? You can't, that’s a false dichotomy and trust me, a man as intelligent as Elon Musk is smart enough to know when he's relying on  a bifurcation fallacy to make a point. 

I tend to agree with you. To some extent I can sympathise with bigfoot believers this way. Though I don't believe either exist on, or visit our planet, I can understand that for rare and usually brief phenomena quite often in poor conditions, it's not the best argument. 

Though I really don't think Musk is all that intelligent anyway. Very good at selling himself, securing capital and then finding very intelligent people to work for him though.

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