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I think all of us in the UK agree!


The Silver Shroud
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38 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Ideas on paper are much more complicated when implemented in real life. 

The devil's in the details and all that.

Of course.

But if you're argument is 'saving lives is hard so let's not bother', I'm not sure you'd get a lot of traction.

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28 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

OMG! I read the OP twice when I first came to the thread, again when I read your first post and twice again after reading this ^ ^ post . . . . then I saw it!!!! :w00t: Never mind, it's been a good discussion!

Well ****...

Still had to read it twice after this...

:lol:

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35 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

OMG! I read the OP twice when I first came to the thread, again when I read your first post and twice again after reading this ^ ^ post . . . . then I saw it!!!! :w00t: Never mind, it's been a good discussion!

Damn - I need a holiday. :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Setton said:

0.

There have been 37 blood clots among the 17,000,000 people who received the AZ vaccine, most of whom are fully recovered.

That is less than expected in the general population and every regulatory body has concluded those clots were not caused by the vaccine.

Would you like to try again?

Right you are.  Only a small fraction of covid patients die though, but there were the hundred some odd people that died after vaccination in Norway I believe it was.  Let's be fair about vaccines and people possibly not wanting to take it.  I don't know what it is in England but here vaccines usually undergo trials for ten to fifteen years before approval.  It's not like they do that for no reason. These vaccines were tested for mere months.  I don't blame anyone that would feel uncomfortable about taking it for that reason, and they should not be ostracized for electing not to.  The truth is the number that won't take the shot is very low and herd immunity will minimize any risk they represent.  

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19 minutes ago, Setton said:

Of course.

But if you're argument is 'saving lives is hard so let's not bother', I'm not sure you'd get a lot of traction.

Not sure how that's what you got out of what I was saying :huh:.

But in terms of raw stats. Denying healthcare to those who don't get vaccinated would cause more deaths than not denying it. 

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52 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

OMG! I read the OP twice when I first came to the thread, again when I read your first post and twice again after reading this ^ ^ post . . . . then I saw it!!!! :w00t: Never mind, it's been a good discussion!

I still don't see it??

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Just now, OverSword said:

I still don't see it??

Your eyes must be getting worse in your old age :whistle: haha

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5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Right you are.  Only a small fraction of covid patients die though, but there were the hundred some odd people that died after vaccination in Norway I believe it was. 

And how many of those died because of the vaccine?

0.

Quote

Let's be fair about vaccines and people possibly not wanting to take it.  I don't know what it is in England but here vaccines usually undergo trials for ten to fifteen years before approval.  It's not like they do that for no reason.

They do that to protect investment. There's no point paying for large scale recruitment of volunteers if the vaccine fails stage 1 trials.

Government backing of these vaccines meant no financial risks so they could run phases concurrently.

It's nothing to do with cutting corners or looking at long-term effects, although yours is a very common misconception.

Quote

These vaccines were tested for mere months.  I don't blame anyone that would feel uncomfortable about taking it for that reason, and they should not be ostracized for electing not to. 

Anyone who does so is doing so out of ignorance, as above.

They have no right to put other people in danger to satisfy their own stupidity.

Quote

The truth is the number that won't take the shot is very low and herd immunity will minimize any risk they represent.  

Herd immunity requires about 70% of the population to be immune.

All the vaccines currently in use have about a 65-75% effective rate.

So to get 75% of the population immune you need....

Oh look, it's everyone.

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1 minute ago, OverSword said:

I still don't see it??

What word looks like vaccination but is universally popular?

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1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

Your eyes must be getting worse in your old age :whistle: haha

medium-512332-image1What???  I don't see anything?

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Just now, Setton said:

What word looks like vaccination but is universally popular?

Dammit!!   :lol:

Edited by OverSword
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1 minute ago, Setton said:

And how many of those died because of the vaccine?

0.

If you believe them.  I don't.

 

2 minutes ago, Setton said:

It's nothing to do with cutting corners or looking at long-term effects, although yours is a very common misconception.

Wrong, it's due to government regulations about testing:  https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation

5 minutes ago, Setton said:

Anyone who does so is doing so out of ignorance, as above.

They have no right to put other people in danger to satisfy their own stupidity.

Above I proved you wrong about ignorance.  In the USA testing usually takes much longer and does so with reason.

6 minutes ago, Setton said:

Herd immunity requires about 70% of the population to be immune.

All the vaccines currently in use have about a 65-75% effective rate.

So to get 75% of the population immune you need....

Oh look, it's everyone.

Well that's impossible then isn't it since some people can not take the vaccine.  :st

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10 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Your eyes must be getting worse in your old age :whistle: haha

This old man ain't too old to 

punch_out_41.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=

Note: I am 16 bit but still rated one of the all time toughest bosses :lol:

Edited by OverSword
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1 hour ago, OverSword said:

Well that's impossible then isn't it since some people can not take the vaccine.  :st

Exactly. So we can't eradicate covid like we did smallpox.

So it's essential everyone who can get the vaccine, does. We need to get as close to that number as possible.

 

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If you don't want a vaccine, give it to me!  The more the merrier.

I'll have more antibodies than all of you put together. :tsu:

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26 minutes ago, Setton said:

Exactly. So we can't eradicate covid like we did smallpox.

So it's essential everyone who can get the vaccine, does. We need to get as close to that number as possible.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but your "as close as possible" is going to have to include those that won't take it.

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12 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I'm not disagreeing with you but your "as close as possible" is going to have to include those that won't take it.

Sure. I'm which case the closest we can possibly get to herd immunity is preventing those who choose not to take it from circulating in the population.

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12 minutes ago, Setton said:

Sure. I'm which case the closest we can possibly get to herd immunity is preventing those who choose not to take it from circulating in the population.

I know.  Through fascist policies to control people that don't obey.  

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31 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I know.  Through fascist policies to control people that don't obey.  

Then we're already living in a fascist society. Plenty of places you can't go without being vaccinated.

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48 minutes ago, Setton said:

Sure. I'm which case the closest we can possibly get to herd immunity is preventing those who choose not to take it from circulating in the population.

If there was such a thing as herd immunity for a corona virus, any corona virus, we would not have annual flu shots.  People still die from complications due to influenza, it's just that the vaccine keeps it from stressing the health care systems, but there is no herd immunity and there won't be for this version either.

Edited by Desertrat56
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13 minutes ago, Setton said:

Then we're already living in a fascist society. Plenty of places you can't go without being vaccinated.

Such as?

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Everyone who is vaccinated can still carry the virus and pass it on.  I wish the media would make that common knowledge.  Also many people can't take the vaccine for medical reasons.  Speaking of personal responsibility.  How many of us get a flu shot each year?  Thousands die of the flu and most of us are carriers.  It rests dormant in our body and we pass it on to people who are less resistant.  There is never any outcry or demand to get flu jabs each year.  Should the annual Covid jab be treated any differently?  When I worked at the local hospital most of the patients who died had a combination of both MRSA and Clostridium Difficile.  If they had tested positive for Covid I bet their pre-existing 'fatal conditions' would have been overlooked and simply recorded as another Covid related death in the hospital's statistics.

 

 

Edited by TigerBright19
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1 hour ago, TigerBright19 said:

Everyone who is vaccinated can still carry the virus and pass it on.  I wish the media would make that common knowledge.  Also many people can't take the vaccine for medical reasons.  Speaking of personal responsibility.  How many of us get a flu shot each year?  Thousands die of the flu and most of us are carriers.  It rests dormant in our body and we pass it on to people who are less resistant.  There is never any outcry or demand to get flu jabs each year.  Should the annual Covid jab be treated any differently?  When I worked at the local hospital most of the patients who died had a combination of both MRSA and Clostridium Difficile.  If they had tested positive for Covid I bet their pre-existing 'fatal conditions' would have been overlooked and simply recorded as another Covid related death in the hospital's statistics.

 

 

The CDC says that most vaccinated people can not carry the virus, according to new data from a studies.

Quote

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Rochelle Walensky is touting new CDC data that suggests people who have been fully vaccinated almost never carry COVID-19. 

 

During an MSNBC interview with Rachel Maddow on Monday, Walensky said: "Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials, but it's also in real-world data."

https://www-businessinsider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.businessinsider.com/cdc-director-data-vaccinated-people-do-not-carry-covid-19-2021-3?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16171528101391&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Fcdc-director-data-vaccinated-people-do-not-carry-covid-19-2021-3

 

Edited by spartan max2
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11 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

If there was such a thing as herd immunity for a corona virus, any corona virus, we would not have annual flu shots.  People still die from complications due to influenza, it's just that the vaccine keeps it from stressing the health care systems, but there is no herd immunity and there won't be for this version either.

Which, again, is why everyone who can be vaccinated needs to be vaccinated.

To get us as close as possible to that impossible goal.

The reason herd immunity is impossible with flu is not because you can't get that many people immune, it's because of the rapid mutations.

And flu is not a coronavirus.

Edited by Setton
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