Trans women targeted in sports bans, but are they really at an advantage?

[Grim Reaper 6]

In March 2020, Idaho’s legislature passed House Bill 500, the “Fairness in Women’s Sports Act,” which bans transgender girls and women from competing in female sports leagues.

MORE: 'Catastrophic' number of state bills target transgender youth, advocates say

Bills like this, Hecox said, may be driven by misconceptions that people have about trans women’s abilities in sports.

The bill prompted Hecox to take action. In April 2020, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union and other advocacy groups and legal firms, she filed a lawsuit opposing the legislation. In August, a judge issued a preliminary injunction, effectively preventing the law from being enforced while the case remains pending. Still, the bill opened a legislative Pandora’s box, with other states following in Idaho’s footsteps. At least 28 states have either proposed or passed approximately 52 bills excluding trans athletes from participating in school sports -- namely, trans girls and women in grades K-12 and college. In Minnesota, legislators have introduced a bill that would make trans female participation in school sports a petty misdemeanor, possibly punishable by a fine.

Trans women targeted in sports bans, but are they really at an advantage? (msn.com)

[Vorg]

 Well, to be honest there could be many advantages.

I've rarely seen any 6 footer female basketball players, yet males I have, well over 6'6 or taller in many cases.

I wouldn't want to wrestle against a 6'2 237 pound male.

Contact sports could cause serious injury or death with some petite females.

So it is almost like a new set of rules do need to happen. 

 

[Hankenhunter]

1 hour ago, South Alabam said:

I've rarely seen any 6 footer female basketball players, yet males I have, well over 6'6 or taller in many cases

You want six foot + female ladies? Lol. Check out most of the Olympic ladies volleyball teams. Most intimidating. I didn't think women got that tall. I was wrong. Besides you play to your advantages, that's why taller people migrate to sports like basketball, and volleyball. Does that make what they're doing unfair? I'd suggest checking their performance against other women. If there's an obvious advantage, then toss them. If they're just average according to their peers, let them play. Otherwise the bans are just political pandering, and borderline hate bills to rack up some votes. For it to be fair it should be judged on an individual basis, no? I do however, agree with you that "hulking brutes" shouldn't be allowed. That would make a farce out of the sport. I picture Moe from "Calvin and Hobbes" in drag 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Hankenhunter
Extra content.

[+and-then]

IMO, as long as these mismatches aren't occurring in high schools or colleges then I DON'T CARE what these athletes do.  Those who are using obvious physical advantages to take scholarships from young ladies in their own sports should be outlawed.  Either THAT or a separate class of scholarship should be funded for the best-achieving in the female sex.

[Luiza22]

If they are  seen as a new category ( the 'Trans'  being the defining label )  , let them compete accordingly .

Of course numbers might be small to begin with but that is hardly the fault or responsibility of other categories . 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Saru
Removed unsuitable term

[+and-then]

5 hours ago, Luiza22 said:

If they are  seen as a  new  category ( the 'Trans'  being the defining label )  , let them compete accordingly .

Of course numbers might be small to begin with but that is hardly the fault or responsibility of other categories . 

I thought of this as well.  It seems the best, fairest solution would be to simply have separate teams and sports competitions for these athletes.  The problem is it would be very difficult to find enough members for their teams.  The numbers are infinitesimal.  

[Luiza22]

42 minutes ago, and then said:

I thought of this as well.  It seems the best, fairest solution would be to simply have separate teams and sports competitions for these athletes.  The problem is it would be very difficult to find enough members for their teams.  The numbers are infinitesimal.  

Absolutely right  , as I also said .

However , I feel sure that the Transhumanist movement would continue its best to advance their ideas and the numbers . In the mean time there is no reason to let the tiniest of tiny tails wag the whole dog . Or b**** , imo.

 

[psyche101]

5 hours ago, South Alabam said:

 Well, to be honest there could be many advantages.

I've rarely seen any 6 footer female basketball players, yet males I have, well over 6'6 or taller in many cases.

I wouldn't want to wrestle against a 6'2 237 pound male.

Contact sports could cause serious injury or death with some petite females.

So it is almost like a new set of rules do need to happen. 

 

I think the main concern is the ability to produce testosterone. 

That could well be a game changer. It would be like being allowed to have performance enhancing drugs. 

If that's the case, I could see why there are complaints. That would be an unfair advantage. 

[diddyman68]

5 hours ago, South Alabam said:

 Well, to be honest there could be many advantages.

I've rarely seen any 6 footer female basketball players, yet males I have, well over 6'6 or taller in many cases.

I wouldn't want to wrestle against a 6'2 237 pound male.

Contact sports could cause serious injury or death with some petite females.

So it is almost like a new set of rules do need to happen. 

 

Couldn't agree more,males will always have the physical strength advantage over females.hormone replacement wouldn't change that either.

There are many instances of men being stronger in sports,eg the u.s and australian national womens football team getting hammered off a team of under 16 schoolboys.

Venus and serena williams losing to a guy ranked outside the top 100.

Put a woman and a man of equal weight in a boxing ring and i know who my money would be on.

[preacherman76]

Last I saw in Connecticut 2 boys own all but two state records in girls sports. They absolutely dominated in every girl sport they played. When they played boys sports they didn’t stand out much at all. 
 

This is ridiculously unfair. 

[Vorg]

13 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Last I saw in Connecticut 2 boys own all but two state records in girls sports. They absolutely dominated in every girl sport they played. When they played boys sports they didn’t stand out much at all. 
 

This is ridiculously unfair. 

No doubt.

[Myles]

I find it crazy that this is even a discussion.   Gender identity should not factor into this.   It is all about biology.  If you have male DNA you compete in the male sports and the same with females.

[itsnotoutthere]

but are they really at an advantage? 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Saru
Image removed due to copyright

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

I find it crazy that this is even a discussion.   Gender identity should not factor into this.   It is all about biology.  If you have male DNA you compete in the male sports and the same with females.

Then why are discussing it and why do you even care how someone else sees themselves or chooses to live their lives?

[spartan max2]

Unfair advantage and in some cases a safety risk. There have been alot of records being broke the last few years by trans woman.

Also, biologically it is a easier transformation for woman to transition to men than for men to transition to woman. 

So trans woman often still have alot of advantage from being born male. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by spartan max2

[Myles]

23 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Then why are discussing it and why do you even care how someone else sees themselves or chooses to live their lives?

We are discussing it because some idiots are fine with males playing in female sports.  I have daughters who played sports and it was better for them to compete against biological females.  

*snip*

Edited April 9, 2021 by Saru
Removed uncredited, unsourced quote

[spartan max2]

22 minutes ago, Myles said:

Laurel Hubbard was a man till the age of 30 and also competed in weightlifting as a man.

See. Like, you can't undue 30 years of male development like that. It just doesn't work that way. So even after sex change this person still has a huge advantage over woman.

[Myles]

5 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

See. Like, you can't undue 30 years of male development like that. It just doesn't work that way. So even after sex change this person still has a huge advantage over woman.

Logical people know this.   

If they gave her a DNA test, would it come back as a male or a female?

[aztek]

i never thought i'd be agreeing with PM here.  but he is absolutely correct,  

[+OverSword]

But are they really at an advantage? YES THEY ARE AT AN ADVANTAGE!!!!!  

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by OverSword

[Agent0range]

I have no problem with it until sports are no longer for "fun."  Once you hit college, and scholarships and money are involved, Olympics, a pro sports league...I think the line needs to be drawn.  I've been reading a whole lot on the new physical training test for the Army.  The events are the same, but the standards are different for men and women (women have to do less reps to achieve the same score).  The failure rate on the new test during the initial rollout was 65% for females, and 10% for males.  There is clearly an advantage when a human produces testosterone.

[Hankenhunter]

11 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I think the main concern is the ability to produce testosterone. 

That could well be a game changer. It would be like being allowed to have performance enhancing drugs. 

If that's the case, I could see why there are complaints. That would be an unfair advantage. 

That's why I feel it should be done on an individual basis. Is it fair that they should sit out until there are enough Trans numbers to form a League of their own? Or the angst of being forced to compete with males, when you identify with females? The answer is always a compromise to make everyone happy, or not happy instead of one side only. Cheers.

[Hankenhunter]

4 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

I have no problem with it until sports are no longer for "fun."  Once you hit college, and scholarships and money are involved, Olympics, a pro sports league...I think the line needs to be drawn.  I've been reading a whole lot on the new physical training test for the Army.  The events are the same, but the standards are different for men and women (women have to do less reps to achieve the same score).  The failure rate on the new test during the initial rollout was 65% for females, and 10% for males.  There is clearly an advantage when a human produces testosterone.

But do they? Is anyone actually measuring testosterone individually, or is it a one size fits all solution? 

*Bolded mine.

[spartan max2]

6 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

But do they? Is anyone actually measuring testosterone individually, or is it a one size fits all solution? 

*Bolded mine.

Measuring testosterone I don't think would work. Because the problem isn't as much current levels of testosterone. Someone who has a sex change takes hormones to solve that. The problem is that the changes that have already happened to the body from testosterone and male genetics you can't really reverse that much. Giving trans-woman more of an advantage.

 

Edit: talking out of my butt some. Apprently hormone therapy isn't effective enough to drop T levels to the same as other females.

 

Quote

Only a quarter of transgender women taking a regimen of spironolactone and estrogens were able to lower testosterone levels within the usual female physiologic range. Another quarter could not achieve female levels but remained below the male range virtually all of the time, while one quarter was unable to achieve any significant suppression.

https://www.bumc.bu.edu/busm/2018/02/20/medicine-alone-does-not-completely-suppress-testosterone-levels-among-transgender-women/

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by spartan max2

[Agent0range]

8 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

But do they? Is anyone actually measuring testosterone individually, or is it a one size fits all solution? 

*Bolded mine.

Well, I wanted to say males have a clear advantage, but I was trying to respect the pronoun.  Biologically born males have a clear advantage the MAJORITY of the time.  The Army PT test study is not a small sample size.  It involves hundreds of thousands of physically fit (for the most part) individuals.  The fact that women fail at a 6 times higher rate than men while having to meet lesser standards is a pretty good indicator biologically born males have an advantage.  Now again, I have no problem with trans females competing in high school sports.  High school sports is supposed to be fun, and helps with growth in to adulthood.  But, after high school there is too much at stake.