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Manwon Lender

More than a third of Americans don't buy a home because of this

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the13bats
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

I’m not fretting  but just following the reason and evidence. There’s more examples for each Mandela Effect I accept but presenting them will end us in the same place my other example left us. 
 

I’m saying our reality is like a plastic object as it has a clear defined shape we all agree upon but it can be bent just slightly too without breaking.

How it all works in detail is beyond me.

I believe normal memory errors occur all the time. I am saying the Mandela Effects are indeed something different and more profound. 

More profound? Perhaps to some but to the logical person they see the only thing we have with mandella effect phenomenon is a bunch of people who refuse likely due to ego to accept their memories are flawed and its how the brain works.

You dont have anything else to support its more than flawed memory, unless of course you have other evidences which we both know if you had you would have posted,

When i say you fret im not being mean nut you care way too much about how i think and my opinions on stuff i really do not care when you or anyone has a claim they can not back up.

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the13bats

Dont be sad papa while i do not agree with many of your opinions basically none and in some cases just cant hardly accept a person can be that gullible and naive and delusion based ive come to the conclusion you are sincere and in that you carry my respect.

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papageorge1
1 hour ago, the13bats said:

Dont be sad papa while i do not agree with many of your opinions basically none and in some cases just cant hardly accept a person can be that gullible and naive and delusion based ive come to the conclusion you are sincere and in that you carry my respect.

That reads as insulting not respectful. Don't even try, you are so obvious to me. I certainly don't need your agreement on a thing. I only argue hoping some people see some points (it's called sowing seeds). We are apparently not important to each other.

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the13bats
30 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

That reads as insulting not respectful. Don't even try, you are so obvious to me. I certainly don't need your agreement on a thing. I only argue hoping some people see some points (it's called sowing seeds). We are apparently not important to each other.

Sorry you took it that way i was being sincere,

Wait, people will pop in who believe they remember ed McMahon as part of PCH and like you they will leap to it has to be paranormal others will say they remember it the wrong way and agree its flawed memory and still others like myself will remember it as it actually was.

Have a good one, hope you feel better soon,

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Liquid Gardens
On 4/10/2021 at 5:43 PM, papageorge1 said:

I only argue hoping some people see some points (it's called sowing seeds).

Are you of the opinion that everything that you have a memory of truly happened in a way that agrees with your memory?  If not, which is really the only reasonable answer, how do you determine which memories are corrupted naturally and which instead are examples of the Mandela effect?

That's the problem with most of the Mandela effect examples, what is remembered/misremembered is so close to the current reality and worse there seems to always be obvious reasons and evidence how the misremembering likely occurred; things like Berenstain being remembered as Berenstein is so obvious it really doesn't require an explanation.  It's a very interesting phenomenon scientifically as an example of how we remember and misremember things, it's just very weak tea for different reality stuff.  It's not like we have examples like, "I distinctly remember San Diego being attacked by the Japanese on Dec 7th, 1941".

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the13bats
1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Are you of the opinion that everything that you have a memory of truly happened in a way that agrees with your memory?  If not, which is really the only reasonable answer, how do you determine which memories are corrupted naturally and which instead are examples of the Mandela effect?

That's the problem with most of the Mandela effect examples, what is remembered/misremembered is so close to the current reality and worse there seems to always be obvious reasons and evidence how the misremembering likely occurred; things like Berenstain being remembered as Berenstein is so obvious it really doesn't require an explanation.  It's a very interesting phenomenon scientifically as an example of how we remember and misremember things, it's just very weak tea for different reality stuff.  It's not like we have examples like, "I distinctly remember San Diego being attacked by the Japanese on Dec 7th, 1941".

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I find this subject intriguing up to a point and recall papa admtting he knows memory is flawed but not with this he is 100% sure his memory not reality backed by historical records is correct.

While i do believe ego plays a part in that some just cant admit their memory is wrong and they are human what triggered me to keep babbling about it was your remark about the memories in question are not worlds a part, they are actually very close like "Jif" or "jiffy" and early ads used jiffy as in lunch in a jiffy. So it not reaching too see how that false memory happened.

So in what i feel like is a pretty big "doh" moment on me i went and looked up "mandela effect" again.

Im down right red faced to learn the term "mandela effect" isnt all that old and it was coined by Fiona Broome, a self-identified “paranormal consultant".  :rolleyes:

I didnt keep going to see to what if any degree she pushes the tangent universe idea but she did take the concept of false memory, gave it a colorful sounding name with "effect" tacked on for extra drama and has a lot of folks jump on the bandwagen who wont admit their memory is whats flawed here.

 

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Are you of the opinion that everything that you have a memory of truly happened in a way that agrees with your memory?  If not, which is really the only reasonable answer, how do you determine which memories are corrupted naturally and which instead are examples of the Mandela effect?

That's the problem with most of the Mandela effect examples, what is remembered/misremembered is so close to the current reality and worse there seems to always be obvious reasons and evidence how the misremembering likely occurred; things like Berenstain being remembered as Berenstein is so obvious it really doesn't require an explanation.  It's a very interesting phenomenon scientifically as an example of how we remember and misremember things, it's just very weak tea for different reality stuff.  

I am a believer that the Mandela Effect is in another class of phenomena from normal memory errors. Why? the level of certainty along with others certainty. Like if Mickey Mouse changed to Mikey Mouse tomorrow people will say it's always been that way. Would you on that example?

Secondly there is residue meaning things from the past we can see now that do not make sense if it was always the accepted way we find things now. I gave one small example in this thread with Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon.

And for me I had my own personal experience with the Flintstones/Flinstones flip/flop which I have shared multiple times on this forum. This cleared up for me any doubt that this phenomena does not makes sense in our straightforward understanding of how reality works. But I understand you can have logical reason to doubt my competency during the event tat convinced me. 

2 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

It's not like we have examples like, "I distinctly remember San Diego being attacked by the Japanese on Dec 7th, 1941".

How about 'People distinctly remember Nelson Mandela died in prison in the 1990's'? (I didn't personally experience that Mandela Effect).

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the13bats
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

How about 'People distinctly remember Nelson Mandela died in prison in the 1990's'? (I didn't personally experience that Mandela Effect).

Um no, people have that false memory just like your false memories about rich simmons, ed McMahon and the flintstones, its just your ego is far too big to admit your memory is flawed,

oh btw the Mandela effect about mandela was the 80s not the 90s so your memory failed you there too.

If there is any phenomenon here its why cant some people get past ego.

 

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Liquid Gardens
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Why? the level of certainty along with others certainty.

I see no evidence that how certain someone is really is relevant about things like this; many have the highest level of certainty possible about their religious beliefs, and those all can't be true.

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Like if Mickey Mouse changed to Mikey Mouse tomorrow people will say it's always been that way. Would you on that example?

No, but that's what I was just saying, Mickey Mouse is on a whole other scale of popularity, and most importantly current memory, then most of the examples.  In the western world there was never any competition awareness-wise between Mickey Mouse and Nelson Mandela.  Furthermore this always happens with things in the past that people haven't seen in a long time; never heard of anyone saying, 'but I just watched a Flinstones episode yesterday'.

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Secondly there is residue meaning things from the past we can see now that do not make sense if it was always the accepted way we find things now. I gave one small example in this thread with Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon.

Now that is just not very good reasoning, that Carson clip makes perfect sense.  Publisher's Clearing House is the most popular sweepstakes company, the one McMahon worked for never got its name out to the degree, if at all.  The Carson clip is on the Letterman show; you don't honestly believe Ed McMahon had something to with this gag?  These shows do have writers?  Who are you expecting to know accurately what companies Ed was doing ads for at the time?  This is an obvious and simple mistake, unless you can come up with some reasonable argument that anyone involved, Carson, Letterman, the joke writers, should have obviously known about the specific sweepstakes Ed worked for which almost no one has heard of then it seems obvious what happened here.  You might as well be pointing out that the size of Johnny's check isn't the same size as the PCH ones so then there's more Mandela effect 'residue'.  It's endless.

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

And for me I had my own personal experience with the Flintstones/Flinstones flip/flop which I have shared multiple times on this forum. This cleared up for me any doubt that this phenomena does not makes sense in our straightforward understanding of how reality works. But I understand you can have logical reason to doubt my competency during the event tat convinced me.

I've had my own personal experience with Berenstain/Berenstein.  It makes perfect sense with how reality works, you are simply making assumptions about human memory that conflict with what the experts' (not laymen 'our') understanding of how memory works.  I don't know what 'competency' really I can doubt, it's not like there's any special skill involved in evaluating this effect that I'm aware of; 'he sure is a good, reliable rememberer', I can't evaluate that.  So since I've had the same experience, why do you think I'm not at all convinced?  My experience does agree with current psychological knowledge, this isn't even at the level of NDEs which I think there have been at least some limited studies of.  It seems like science's attitude towards the Mandela effect is, "yea, that's not a surprise".

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papageorge1
42 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Um no, people have that false memory just like your false memories about rich simmons, ed McMahon and the flintstones, its just your ego is far too big to admit your memory is flawed,

oh btw the Mandela effect about mandela was the 80s not the 90s so your memory failed you there too.

If there is any phenomenon here its why cant some people get past ego.

 

To contradict your whole thrust I accept that I confused the decades for Mandela’s alleged death. And my Flintstones flip/flop was live and real-time and didn’t even involve any long term memory.

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papageorge1
36 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I see no evidence that how certain someone is really is relevant about things like this; many have the highest level of certainty possible about their religious beliefs, and those all can't be true.

No, but that's what I was just saying, Mickey Mouse is on a whole other scale of popularity, and most importantly current memory, then most of the examples.  In the western world there was never any competition awareness-wise between Mickey Mouse and Nelson Mandela.  Furthermore this always happens with things in the past that people haven't seen in a long time; never heard of anyone saying, 'but I just watched a Flinstones episode yesterday'.

Now that is just not very good reasoning, that Carson clip makes perfect sense.  Publisher's Clearing House is the most popular sweepstakes company, the one McMahon worked for never got its name out to the degree, if at all.  The Carson clip is on the Letterman show; you don't honestly believe Ed McMahon had something to with this gag?  These shows do have writers?  Who are you expecting to know accurately what companies Ed was doing ads for at the time?  This is an obvious and simple mistake, unless you can come up with some reasonable argument that anyone involved, Carson, Letterman, the joke writers, should have obviously known about the specific sweepstakes Ed worked for which almost no one has heard of then it seems obvious what happened here.  You might as well be pointing out that the size of Johnny's check isn't the same size as the PCH ones so then there's more Mandela effect 'residue'.  It's endless.

I've had my own personal experience with Berenstain/Berenstein.  It makes perfect sense with how reality works, you are simply making assumptions about human memory that conflict with what the experts' (not laymen 'our') understanding of how memory works.  I don't know what 'competency' really I can doubt, it's not like there's any special skill involved in evaluating this effect that I'm aware of; 'he sure is a good, reliable rememberer', I can't evaluate that.  So since I've had the same experience, why do you think I'm not at all convinced?  My experience does agree with current psychological knowledge, this isn't even at the level of NDEs which I think there have been at least some limited studies of.  It seems like science's attitude towards the Mandela effect is, "yea, that's not a surprise".

Well, we’re not going to convince each other. I also go to another forum that is strong in the Mandela Effect world and have read so many  very persuasive personal experiences of people that had more than normal connection with the effect. That is probably a difference between us; The type of information we expose ourselves too. By now I know all the anti-Mandela Effect arguments out there too and weigh the two sides against each other.

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the13bats
56 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

To contradict your whole thrust I accept that I confused the decades for Mandela’s alleged death. And my Flintstones flip/flop was live and real-time and didn’t even involve any long term memory.

I have no "trust" i just find anyone who makes claims their memory is 100% to be delusional,

Your mandela date death fail just further proves that.

And your flintstone thing has no proof it happened and if it did wasnt a net type failure.

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the13bats
1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I see no evidence that how certain someone is really is relevant about things like this; many have the highest level of certainty possible about their religious beliefs, and those all can't be true.

No, but that's what I was just saying, Mickey Mouse is on a whole other scale of popularity, and most importantly current memory, then most of the examples.  In the western world there was never any competition awareness-wise between Mickey Mouse and Nelson Mandela.  Furthermore this always happens with things in the past that people haven't seen in a long time; never heard of anyone saying, 'but I just watched a Flinstones episode yesterday'.

Now that is just not very good reasoning, that Carson clip makes perfect sense.  Publisher's Clearing House is the most popular sweepstakes company, the one McMahon worked for never got its name out to the degree, if at all.  The Carson clip is on the Letterman show; you don't honestly believe Ed McMahon had something to with this gag?  These shows do have writers?  Who are you expecting to know accurately what companies Ed was doing ads for at the time?  This is an obvious and simple mistake, unless you can come up with some reasonable argument that anyone involved, Carson, Letterman, the joke writers, should have obviously known about the specific sweepstakes Ed worked for which almost no one has heard of then it seems obvious what happened here.  You might as well be pointing out that the size of Johnny's check isn't the same size as the PCH ones so then there's more Mandela effect 'residue'.  It's endless.

I've had my own personal experience with Berenstain/Berenstein.  It makes perfect sense with how reality works, you are simply making assumptions about human memory that conflict with what the experts' (not laymen 'our') understanding of how memory works.  I don't know what 'competency' really I can doubt, it's not like there's any special skill involved in evaluating this effect that I'm aware of; 'he sure is a good, reliable rememberer', I can't evaluate that.  So since I've had the same experience, why do you think I'm not at all convinced?  My experience does agree with current psychological knowledge, this isn't even at the level of NDEs which I think there have been at least some limited studies of.  It seems like science's attitude towards the Mandela effect is, "yea, that's not a surprise".

Ive said alot if that to him and he ignores it.

If i still a frame with the letterman gag im pretty sure the check even reads " american family publishing" but he sure does not have PCH on it.

Being certain or sincere isnt the measure of truth a person can be either or both and dead wrong most charlatans are very certain and sincere, it really doesnt apply here.

A mentally ill person can be certain its raining gumdrops but we can easily see thats not the case.

 

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papageorge1
16 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I have no "trust" i just find anyone who makes claims their memory is 100% to be delusional,

 

I never would claim my memory is 100% on everything. I’ll go 100% on there being a Mickey Mouse though.

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