Creationism can be taught as Science

[+Hammerclaw]

Science can be taught as creationism. All they have to add is "God did it" at the end of the book.
 

[onlookerofmayhem]

2 minutes ago, SeekTruth said:

Thanks. Just to make sure we're on the same page, I was thinking more specifically of biological information: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/information-biological/

Ah. Okay.

To that I have to say, I don't know.

As far as I can tell it's, for lack of a better term, a symptom of the universe.

[onlookerofmayhem]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Science can be taught as creationism. All they have to add is "God did it" at the end of the book.
 

It sure would be easy to get an "A" in that class.

 

[Occupational Hubris]

Just now, onlookerofmayhem said:

Ah. Okay.

To that I have to say, I don't know.

As far as I can tell it's, for lack of a better term, a symptom of the universe.

I see no reason why life is simply not the natural result of chemistry. There was even a recent paper that argues that very idea. I'll have to see if i can find it.

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

It sure would be easy to get an "A" in that class.

 

You miss the point. If God created the Universe, he created a perfectly natural one. All any intelligent theist has to do is accept that as part of their belief system and accept Science as correct empirical observation and discovery of that Universe. 

[onlookerofmayhem]

1 minute ago, Occupational Hubris said:

I see no reason why life is simply not the natural result of chemistry.

Well, that's one of my big contentions.

We KNOW life is the result of chemistry. We are made up of the stuff that is all around us.

We KNOW evolution is a fact. It's pretty much undeniable.

Taking the extraordinary leap to a creator is too much.

Especially in the sense that people want it taught in public schools.

If someone wants to teach their children that at home, I can't stop them.

But the have literally no science backing them up.

[+Hammerclaw]

11 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Well, that's one of my big contentions.

We KNOW life is the result of chemistry. We are made up of the stuff that is all around us.

We KNOW evolution is a fact. It's pretty much undeniable.

Taking the extraordinary leap to a creator is too much.

Especially in the sense that people want it taught in public schools.

If someone wants to teach their children that at home, I can't stop them.

But the have literally no science backing them up.

That's why they should just say God did it and accept Scientific fact. Call it God's creation, if they want to, then explore the wonder of it as religious scientists did and still do. They choose to say God did it, while the non religious clap their hands, like delighted children, and cry: "Oh happy chance!" Either way, the Universe is what it is, regardless. It's a manufactured crisis from both sides. Still, I wonder if the idiots realize every religion has it's own creation myths and not just the Judeo-Christian one with be taught in the classroom?

Edited April 13, 2021 by Hammerclaw

[Occupational Hubris]

10 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

That's why they should just say God did it and accept Scientific fact. Call it God's creation, if they want to, then explore the wonder of it as religious scientists did and still do. They choose to say God did it, while the non religious clap their hands, like delighted children, and cry: "Oh happy chance!" Either way, the Universe is what it is, regardless. It's a manufactured crisis from both sides. Still, I wonder if the idiots realize every religion has it's own creation myths and not just the Judeo-Christian one with be taught in the classroom?

I'm a staunch proponent of Last Thursdayism.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Occupational Hubris said:

I'm a staunch proponent of Last Thursdayism.

Thou art God! Grokking is!

[onlookerofmayhem]

17 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

That's why they should just say God did it and accept Scientific fact. Call it God's creation, if they want to, then explore the wonder of it as religious scientists did and still do.

While that would be a touch bit more palatable, I don't see any rational justification to teaching it in school.

18 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Either way, the Universe is what it is, regardless.

Agreed.

6 minutes ago, Occupational Hubris said:

It's a manufactured crisis from both sides.

I don't consider it a crisis. 

I consider it unwarranted.

19 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Still, I wonder if the idiots realize every religion has it's own creation myths and not just the Judeo-Christian one with be taught in the classroom?

Of course most of them don't realize that.

They don't realize I only believe in one less god than they do.

[+Nuclear Wessel]

I mean, this **** is why aliens don’t talk to us. WTF

Edited April 13, 2021 by Nuclear Wessel

[+Hammerclaw]

16 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

While that would be a touch bit more palatable, I don't see any rational justification to teaching it in school.

If religious people were rational, there wouldn't be any religious people.

 

16 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

I don't consider it a crisis. 

I consider it unwarranted

All manufactured crises are.

 

16 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Of course most of them don't realize that.

They don't realize I only believe in one less god than they do.

Well, that's the crux of the of the problem, isn't it? Both you and they believe there is or there isn't a God and both believe the onus is on the other to back theirs up with facts. What I do myself is, in a flight of imagination, take myself all the way out to Saturn and view a pale blue dot floating above it's Glorious rings. Then humbled, I consider the possibility that the minute organisms that swarm and multiply in the moisture that coats it's surface, yet know hardly anything about the vast universe in which their brief existences flash in and out in a few 10s of revolutions around their star.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Hammerclaw

[+Hammerclaw]

10 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

I mean, this **** is why aliens don’t talk to us. WTF

When you hear crickets, chirping in the dark, do you seek them out for conversation?

[Resume]

For 2021, it's awfully 1921 in Arkansas.

[Occupational Hubris]

21 minutes ago, Resume said:

For 2021, it's awfully 1921 in Arkansas.

Most of the red south, for that matter

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, Occupational Hubris said:

I would LOVE to see her best examples of what she believes evolution cannot explain. If she is like most creationists, which it's safe to assume she is, it's like matter which evolution does not even seek or claim to explain, such as the origin of life, or some other oft debunked creationist rigmarole.

The women is delusional and by her own statement that shcool is violating the 1st Amendment of the Constitution as outlined below:

The First Amendment guarantees of religious liberty include the freedom to believe or not to believe, and to observe one’s faith openly without government interference. Freedom of speech encompasses religious as well as secular speech, but the Establishment Clause imposes limitations on government endorsement of religion that has important implications for religious speech and observance in public schools.

Thomas Jefferson described the Establishment Clause as erecting “a wall of separation between church and state.” Government neutrality toward religion is increasingly important with the proliferation of diverse religious beliefs, and schools are among the most important places where this principle is tested.

 

This does not imply that the public schools may not teach about religion. Indeed, “the Bible may constitutionally be used in an appropriate study of history, civilization, ethics, comparative religion, and the like.” Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39, 42 (1980)(per curiam). Schools may teach about religion, explain the tenets of various faiths, discuss the role of religion in history, literature, science and other endeavors, and the like, as long as it has a secular purpose to promote educational goals, and there is no effort to promote or inhibit any religious belief.

I am with you here brother!!

•  

[Silver]

1 hour ago, Occupational Hubris said:

I'm with the small group of people that though the matrix movies were terrible. I also think the idea that we live in a simulation is, at this point, untestable, and therefore of no serious consideration. 

I like sci-fi, sci-fantasy, all genres of films really, but couldn't watch the Matrix for some reason. Couldn't get into it.

Edited April 13, 2021 by ted hughes

[Silver]

1 hour ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

It sure would be easy to get an "A" in that class.

 

Except they might set essays like the ones I had to do in school: 'compare and contrast the competing theories of evolution and creationism'. Or, 'there are two main theories: discuss.' That would satisfy each camp.

[Occupational Hubris]

9 minutes ago, ted hughes said:

I like sci-fi, sci-fantasy, all genres of films really, but couldn't watch the Matrix for some reason. Couldn't get into it.

I love sci-fi. I just didn't like those movies. The first was interesting, but WAY too raver-goth at the end. I thought the 2nd and 3rd were garbage. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Occupational Hubris

[Occupational Hubris]

1 minute ago, ted hughes said:

Except they might set essays like the ones I had to do in school: 'compare and contrast the competing theories of evolution and creationism'. Or, 'there are two main theories: discuss.' That would satisfy each camp.

But their aren't two main theories. Evolution wasn't the only hypothesis of biological change age over time. It's the one that won out over other hypothesis due to being constantly verified while other were falsified.

I am all for teaching creationism in a comparative religion class, but it needs to stay out of science classes. 

[Silver]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Science can be taught as creationism. All they have to add is "God did it" at the end of the book.
 

I recently listened on the radio to an academic debate about this very thing. The religious argument seemed a bit contrived to me, a bit 'having your cake and eating it.' God seemed a bit redundant.

[Tatetopa]

You must admit, It is a great companion course to flat earth geography though.

[Occupational Hubris]

3 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

You must admit, It is a great companion course to flat earth geography though.

[Hankenhunter]

13 minutes ago, ted hughes said:

I like sci-fi, sci-fantasy, all genres of films really, but couldn't watch the Matrix for some reason. Couldn't get into it.

I have friends who felt the same way. When pressed, the minority responded with "its hogwash, and the majority said it made them uncomfortable." Perhaps it's because the movie was designed to make people think outside the box? I just enjoyed it for what it was to me. Entertaining. A flight of fancy.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

3 hours ago, ted hughes said:

A bill to allow Christian beliefs to be taught in Arkansas classrooms easily passed the state House Wednesday. House Bill 1701 now heads to the Senate side for a vote.

The bill will allow kindergarten through 12th grade teachers to teach students about the Christian theory of creationism, which claims that a divine being conjured the universe and all things in it in six days. The bill specifies that creationism can be taught not only in religion and philosophy classes, but “as a theory of how the Earth came to exist.”

As with so many pieces of legislation churning out of the Arkansas Capitol this session, if HB 1701 passes, a quick court challenge on this blatant mixing of church and state is all but inevitable. The United States Supreme Court already considered this issue in 1987 and ruled in no uncertain terms that teaching creationism in public school classrooms is unconstitutional. But blatant unconstitutionality hasn’t dissuaded Arkansas lawmakers so far this session. One Senate bill that passed recently, for example, declared all federal gun laws null and void within our state’s borders, in clear opposition to the Supremacy Clause that says federal laws take precedence over state laws.

Rep. Mary Bentley (R-Perryville), sponsor of House Bill 1701 “TO ALLOW CREATIONISM AS A THEORY OF HOW THE EARTH CAME TO EXIST TO BE TAUGHT IN KINDERGARTEN THROUGH GRADE TWELVE CLASSES IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND OPEN–ENROLLMENT PUBLIC CHARTER SCHOOLS,” said she put forth the bill at the request of science teachers in her district.

“There are phenomena in our nature that evolution cannot explain,” Bentley said. She emphasized that science teachers may teach creationism under this bill, but they don’t have to.

“Why would we do this when the Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that it’s illegal to do that,” asked Rep. Deborah Ferguson (D-West Memphis). Ferguson pointed out that Arkansas has been down this road before in 1982 when state lawmakers tried to force creationism into the state’s curriculum. U.S. District Judge William Overton put a stop to it with his ruling in McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education.

Bentley told Ferguson she believes the Supreme Court might rule differently this time.

The creationism in schools bill passed the House with a vote split strictly along party lines, with 72 yeahs from Republicans, 21 nays from Democrats, and seven not voting. Creationism can be taught as science in Arkansas classrooms, lawmakers say - Arkansas Times (arktimes.com)