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Mandela effect discussion

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papageorge1
12 minutes ago, Essan said:

I remain curious as to why anyone would have ever thought it was the Flinstones, other than because they misread it?  It obviously makes no sense as a name.

I am one that is positive that Flintstones is correct only. But I saw it flip to Flinstones anyway before my eyes. Yes, the Mandela Effect contradicts normal reasoning.

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Liquid Gardens
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

You missed the point. The kids seemed to be imitating the statue pose. The statue is chin. The kids are forehead.

Not this kid:

Capture.JPG.fff8596014df2b3e0835998782f94ba5.JPG

So what's going on there, another Mandela effect where the Thinker has his hand on his cheek and using his left hand?  This is a posed shot obviously, they aren't even looking at the statue, how do you know they are not just imitating each other or perhaps whatever adult likely prompted them to all assume the same pose?  Have you taken into account that a lot of people, including me, assume that exact head-on-the-forehead pose when they are sitting at a table or desk reading or studying, I'll bet some of these kids assume that hand-on-forehead position in class on an almost daily basis.  As opposed to the hand under the chin which isn't as natural or comfortable. 

This is really getting way out there, you're assuming people just don't make mistakes despite the overwhelming evidence.  Again, you'll have to provide something more if you want this to be 'reasonable'.  It's difficult to apply that word anyway because your proposition is impervious to falsification; you debunk normal propositions by noting inconsistencies, whereas in this case the inconsistency itself is the proposition.  Heads you win, tails you win.  Don't know why you find this compelling.

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papageorge1
1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Not this kid:

Capture.JPG.fff8596014df2b3e0835998782f94ba5.JPG

So what's going on there, another Mandela effect where the Thinker has his hand on his cheek and using his left hand?  This is a posed shot obviously, they aren't even looking at the statue, how do you know they are not just imitating each other or perhaps whatever adult likely prompted them to all assume the same pose?  Have you taken into account that a lot of people, including me, assume that exact head-on-the-forehead pose when they are sitting at a table or desk reading or studying, I'll bet some of these kids assume that hand-on-forehead position in class on an almost daily basis.  As opposed to the hand under the chin which isn't as natural or comfortable. 

This is really getting way out there, you're assuming people just don't make mistakes despite the overwhelming evidence.  Again, you'll have to provide something more if you want this to be 'reasonable'.  It's difficult to apply that word anyway because your proposition is impervious to falsification; you debunk normal propositions by noting inconsistencies, whereas in this case the inconsistency itself is the proposition.  Heads you win, tails you win.  Don't know why you find this compelling.

I already thought of and consider those inside-the-box explanations and they are possible. Also possible is an exotic explanation as others have pointed this change in the statue prior to me ever seeing this photo. I would never call any residue proof.

My real interest is the likelihood of an exotic explanation anywhere involved with this phenomena.

Papameter Reading

Exotic Explanation involved  98%     Inside-the-box Only. 2%
 

Almost never does my meter read this high. 
 

Juries must make best judgments without proof. Should nobody have any opinions on the paranormal/alien/crypto stuff that are mainstays of this forum?

Got a meter?

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Liquid Gardens
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Almost never does my meter read this high. 

You say this like the meter has some credibility.  Many have tried and all have failed to get details on how that works; 'I have concluded this from my review of the evidence' explains nothing, everyone assumes that.  We'd just like to see how you're doing it to see if you're doing it right, but you can't or won't explain that.

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Juries must make best judgments without proof. Should nobody have any opinions on the paranormal/alien/crypto stuff that are mainstays of this forum?

Whoa whoa, again you are the only person here mentioning 'proof'.  Courts are not a good analogy at all.  Juries make best judgments without proof based on evidence, which is precisely what is missing in this case because every feasible condition is consistent with the Mandela effect, so evidence isn't even a concept.  There is no imaginable evidence that we can ever get from the real world that could ever disprove it.  Memory errors are safely within 'reasonable doubt' parameters, and in a court the defense, 'maybe reality changed', will get you laughed out of court and possibly a psych eval.  No, how the justice system works is squarely at odds with your conclusions.

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Got a meter?

Got something even better: reasons and evidence.  Works much better than throwing my hands up and just saying 'it's a judgment call'.

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papageorge1
2 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Got something even better: reasons and evidence.  Works much better than throwing my hands up and just saying 'it's a judgment call'.

So after all the evidence and argumentation you come across is considered you  have no opinion on ghosts? bigfoot? Aliens? The Mandela Effect? No opinion on likelihood? That's all the Papameter does.

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Liquid Gardens
11 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

So after all the evidence and argumentation you come across is considered you  have no opinion on ghosts? bigfoot? Aliens? The Mandela Effect? No opinion on likelihood? That's all the Papameter does.

As far as I can tell the papameter is roughly equivalent to a random number generator.  If there was something more to it you'd be able to support its reading with some detail, not just by merely restating your original opinion again.

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

As far as I can tell the papameter is roughly equivalent to a random number generator.  If there was something more to it you'd be able to support its reading with some detail, not just by merely restating your original opinion again.

And, come on man, you know what the Papameter is. It's my best judgment all things considered. It's not a 'magical' electro-mechanical device but it has a cutesy name to try to keep things fun. But the idea of having a considered opinion on these controversial subjects is perfectly fine.

I guess we are not going to hear your current thoughts on the likeliness of an exotic explanation being involved with the Mandela Effect.

Edited by papageorge1
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Liquid Gardens
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I note that you avoided the question.

Hahaha, is that a problem now?  Because I'd estimate the current score on unanswered questions in this convo is roughly papa - ~100, LG - 0.  You are seriously asking me if I have no opinion on the supernatural and on the Mandela effect... What did you think, "The Mandela effect exists, just like optical illusions exist, it's just that it has a totally obvious explanation." and "I'm entirely confident that I've provided far more numerous rational reasons and justifications why I don't believe in any abnormal explanation for the ME than you have for why you believe in it." from all of 2 days ago meant?  Do you recall you and I having some previous discussions about the rest of the supernatural world?  If you do you'd know I've shared my opinion a zillion times on the supernatural, and that's just with you. 

Since your entire case relies not on evidence but trusting your judgment and you've conveniently defined things so that counterevidence cannot even exist, the fact that you are overlooking obvious things like this is not encouraging.  It  obviously makes one wonder how many things the papameter also failed to take into account.

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

And, come on man, you know what the Papameter is. It's my best judgment all things considered. It's not a 'magical' electro-mechanical device but it has a cutesy name to try to keep things fun. But the idea of having a considered opinion on these controversial subjects is perfectly fine.

I know, it's fun, I'm just continuing your analogy.  See, every other electro-mechanical meter in the world allows you to take the cover off of it so you can look at the components and how, and if, it works.  Unfortunately all the screws are stripped on the papameter and the cover just won't come off so can't get at the guts, and the inventor won't share his blueprints (in an analogous sense). 

I never said or implied that it's anything but perfectly fine to have an opinion on these subjects.  That includes me too though and the justification for your 'considered opinion', or lack thereof, is also perfectly fine for me to scrutinize politely.

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I guess we are not going to hear your current thoughts on the likeliness of an exotic explanation being involved with the Mandela Effect.

Or I've already provided them to you and you either forgot or are a victim of another Mandela effect where everything I've already typed on this didn't exist in whatever reality configuration you were existing in.  It's really weird because your 'highest papameter reading ever' for the ME is the exact opposite position I have, as I've already explained, rarely do we have so much evidence that thoroughly explains proposed supernatural/exotic phenomenon claims as being natural.  The ME effect is fun and in some cases is a, 'wow, that's weird', experience, but I already have a lot of 'wow, that's weird' experiences with just 'materialism' and nature.  You're not providing any reason why the ME is an exception.

Edited by Liquid Gardens
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papageorge1
47 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Hahaha, is that a problem now?  Because I'd estimate the current score on unanswered questions in this convo is roughly papa - ~100, LG - 0.  You are seriously asking me if I have no opinion on the supernatural and on the Mandela effect... What did you think, "The Mandela effect exists, just like optical illusions exist, it's just that it has a totally obvious explanation." and "I'm entirely confident that I've provided far more numerous rational reasons and justifications why I don't believe in any abnormal explanation for the ME than you have for why you believe in it." from all of 2 days ago meant?  Do you recall you and I having some previous discussions about the rest of the supernatural world?  If you do you'd know I've shared my opinion a zillion times on the supernatural, and that's just with you. 

Since your entire case relies not on evidence but trusting your judgment and you've conveniently defined things so that counterevidence cannot even exist, the fact that you are overlooking obvious things like this is not encouraging.  It  obviously makes one wonder how many things the papameter also failed to take into account.

I know, it's fun, I'm just continuing your analogy.  See, every other electro-mechanical meter in the world allows you to take the cover off of it so you can look at the components and how, and if, it works.  Unfortunately all the screws are stripped on the papameter and the cover just won't come off so can't get at the guts, and the inventor won't share his blueprints (in an analogous sense). 

I never said or implied that it's anything but perfectly fine to have an opinion on these subjects.  That includes me too though and the justification for your 'considered opinion', or lack thereof, is also perfectly fine for me to scrutinize politely.

Or I've already provided them to you and you either forgot or are a victim of another Mandela effect where everything I've already typed on this didn't exist in whatever reality configuration you were existing in.  It's really weird because your 'highest papameter reading ever' for the ME is the exact opposite position I have, as I've already explained, rarely do we have so much evidence that thoroughly explains proposed supernatural/exotic phenomenon claims as being natural.  The ME effect is fun and in some cases is a, 'wow, that's weird', experience, but I already have a lot of 'wow, that's weird' experiences with just 'materialism' and nature.  You're not providing any reason why the ME is an exception.

I’ll take it you give no oxygen (0%) to the possibility of exotic causes being involved with the Mandela Effect. It seems to me you dislike this being anything but a slam-dunk subject and you are now avoiding any admission you could be wrong. I, honestly, would be just fine if The Mandela Effect had no exotic causes. But by now I honestly believe it does.
 

As for me not answering questions, I disagree. Ask me your best question now and I’ll present my answer. I can’t always respond to everything in lengthy posts without delineated questions.

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Xeno-Fish
5 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

As far as I can tell the papameter is roughly equivalent to a random number generator. 

I see it as a bias meter. It lets everyone know how bias he is in regards to a topic. 

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Xeno-Fish
39 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I’ll take it you give no oxygen (0%) to the possibility of exotic causes being involved with the Mandela Effect. It seems to me you dislike this being anything but a slam-dunk subject and you are now avoiding any admission you could be wrong. I, honestly, would be just fine if The Mandela Effect had no exotic causes. But by now I honestly believe it does.
 

As for me not answering questions, I disagree. Ask me your best question now and I’ll present my answer. I can’t always respond to everything in lengthy posts without delineated questions.

When the realistic answers outnumber the unrealistic ones. Which one is actually better?

Two of the easiest answers are false memory and misremembering. 

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TashaMarie
On 4/21/2021 at 7:01 PM, papageorge1 said:

@Liquid Gardens

Here is an actual screen capture that doesn't make sense and suggests something strange is going on with Pebbles Flintsone.

 

On April 29, 2019 at approximately 1:30PM I posted the following on Reddit!

 

georgeananda

1 point · 26 minutes ago

https://www.google.com/search?q=pebbles+flintstone&oq=pebbles&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j69i59j0l2.5776j0j4&client=ms-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Another 'What the Heck' moment. Three/four days ago I clicked on this link you provided and the side box said 'Pebbles Flinstones'. I AM POSITIVE OF THAT! Just now I clicked on it and it is 'Pebbles Flintstone'!!

ANY IDEAS anyone??? Did I just experience yet another ME Moment!!!

The person that discovered this Barbranz on Reddit created two screenshots below during the time the sidebox said Pebbles Flinstone

 

https://imgur.com/5SRbTWn

 

https://imgur.com/fE71https://imgur.com/5SRbTWn4Lh

 

OK, now I'm back to April 21, 2021. Of course I would quickly consider the person edited the screen they were showing us to say 'Flinstone'. HOWEVER, I also personally brought up the google screen and saw Flinstone (I wish I would have screen shot it myself too). Well despite the uphill grade for belief in exotic explanations, you may be starting to see it is not that I have any desire to just deceive myself.

How many times in our lifetimes do we read the word we expect to see and not the one there? 

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Scholar4Truth

Here is another Mandela Effect I came across  Some remember the Vicks medicine being called Vicks Vaporub, but now its called Vaporub. A simple search will show how this is simply a company changing its name and product. Here is an ad from 1922  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicks_VapoRub#/media/File:Vicks_VapoRub_-_March_1922_Ad.jpg In addition you can see from their own site they have products by different names https://vicks.com/en-us/shop-products/vaporub

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papageorge1
55 minutes ago, TashaMarie said:

How many times in our lifetimes do we read the word we expect to see and not the one there? 

Probably many many times but only once  in my entire lifetime (my Flinstones experience) where I slowly and cautiously was looking for the controversial 't' in all four positions on a static display screen. And with this famous (Flintstones/Flinstones) flip/flop claim, the experiencers include many, many others. At what point is our threshold for belief that it's always mundane toppled?

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Liquid Gardens
2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I’ll take it you give no oxygen (0%) to the possibility of exotic causes being involved with the Mandela Effect. It seems to me you dislike this being anything but a slam-dunk subject and you are now avoiding any admission you could be wrong.

You are now moving firmly into the hypocrisy/lying stage, what do you think I'm avoiding?  Try comparing how many sentences have been in my posts to the meager sentences in your replies, then think about what that tells you about who has been avoiding things.  Instead of trying to justify the papameter output you are instead trying the classic paranormal-believer tactic of implying psychological nonsense about me, like I'm too absolute or inflexible. 

Read the last line in my signature that is on every one of my posts which already addresses your 'could be wrong' dishonesty here (we'll just have to have faith that you are bit more aware and observant during your supernatural experiences, since evidence like this suggests the opposite).  If you are looking for my likelihood 'number', it's greater than 0% but far less than 1%.  I've given you every opportunity to provide oxygen, you've declined to take it over and over and you are a relative expert on this subject, yet still can't answer on what basis this should be given any more oxygen than Santa.

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I, honestly, would be just fine if The Mandela Effect had no exotic causes. But by now I honestly believe it does.

Well of course that's easy for you to say as you will never have any evidence that it is not from exotic causes as it is not possible given the 'reasoning' you've provided here.  What could possibly happen to make you think it's not 'exotic' causes?  The only thing you've provided at all is that maybe if you 'feel' differently about it you might change your mind.  There are reasons of course that the scientific method tries as best as possible to eliminate the bias of personal 'feelings' altogether, but I guess when you've got nothing else...

2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Ask me your best question now and I’ll present my answer. I can’t always respond to everything in lengthy posts without delineated questions.

Why do you need delineated questions?  I'm not going to bother providing you any more questions on this for you to avoid, and am definitely not going to repeat this conversation - see 'The Boy who Cried Wolf Mandela Effect' for details.  In my reality all those posts are still there and haven't been ME'd away yet so there's no point repeating it.

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TashaMarie
42 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Probably many many times but only once  in my entire lifetime (my Flinstones experience) where I slowly and cautiously was looking for the controversial 't' in all four positions on a static display screen. And with this famous (Flintstones/Flinstones) flip/flop claim, the experiencers include many, many others. At what point is our threshold for belief that it's always mundane toppled?

So you are saying that your witnessed the word spelt incorrectly 4 times?  

 

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papageorge1
39 minutes ago, TashaMarie said:

So you are saying that your witnessed the word spelt incorrectly 4 times?  

 

If you read my original story it was six or seven times and the ‘t’ was in four different places.

Then I combine my story with other peoples’ flip/flop stories on this very same word

That’s why I’m so confident. But you should doubt my honesty and competency. And there it stands.

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Scholar4Truth

Something I was thinking about is if the ME has validity how do we know the posts today will not change tomorrow? If labels, movies, product names can change why have not our posts? because just because it may look that way now, there is no we cannot know it will be the same tomorrow. It should be effecting the entire universe. 

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Xeno-Fish
39 minutes ago, Scholar4Truth said:

Something I was thinking about is if the ME has validity how do we know the posts today will not change tomorrow? If labels, movies, product names can change why have not our posts? because just because it may look that way now, there is no we cannot know it will be the same tomorrow. It should be effecting the entire universe. 

Unless we edit or someone else edits our post they stay the same. That's why written accounts (a journal) is a good idea. It makes for a very stable resource of experience. Though never quite perfect. 

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TashaMarie
42 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

If you read my original story it was six or seven times and the ‘t’ was in four different places.

Then I combine my story with other peoples’ flip/flop stories on this very same word

That’s why I’m so confident. But you should doubt my honesty and competency. And there it stands.

Still does not seem weird to me I'm pretty confident if we search hard enough it has been spelt wrong way more times than 6 or 7.  Things get spelt wrong and corrected all the time I do not understand why people put such significance on it.  I will go back and reread your original post when I am more awake but not sure it will change anything.

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papageorge1
7 minutes ago, TashaMarie said:

Still does not seem weird to me I'm pretty confident if we search hard enough it has been spelt wrong way more times than 6 or 7.  Things get spelt wrong and corrected all the time I do not understand why people put such significance on it.  I will go back and reread your original post when I am more awake but not sure it will change anything.

It does appear you are not understanding my story. Re-read if you want to understand. Or not.

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Scholar4Truth said:

Something I was thinking about is if the ME has validity how do we know the posts today will not change tomorrow? If labels, movies, product names can change why have not our posts? because just because it may look that way now, there is no we cannot know it will be the same tomorrow. It should be effecting the entire universe. 

In fact my Flinstones story does include posts changing!!!!

As my rule, I go on assuming the normal will occur in my next experience. I think an intelligence is not going to upset the general apple-cart of normal rule following. 
 

Miracles/paranormal/Mandela Effects are real too but are exceptionally rare in comparison to the normal. It’s so rare many can believe it is always 100% normal rule following.

There’s my thoughts.

Edited by papageorge1

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Kenemet
On 4/21/2021 at 6:33 PM, papageorge1 said:

I already thought of and consider those inside-the-box explanations and they are possible. Also possible is an exotic explanation as others have pointed this change in the statue prior to me ever seeing this photo. I would never call any residue proof.

I don't know if you read the very nice abstract that @Manwon Lender posted about the "Moses illusion" but I think that this also accounts for some of the Mandela effects - in addition to people not having perfect memory.

Another article on the Moses Illusion is here: https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-the-moses-illusion-1691328

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papageorge1
3 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

I don't know if you read the very nice abstract that @Manwon Lender posted about the "Moses illusion" but I think that this also accounts for some of the Mandela effects - in addition to people not having perfect memory.

Another article on the Moses Illusion is here: https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-the-moses-illusion-1691328

I just read it. I think this can explain some of the weaker Mandela Effect claims that I have heard. I am sure these errors happen but this doesn't explain-away the strong Mandela Effects (or my personal experience).

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Xeno-Fish
25 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

I don't know if you read the very nice abstract that @Manwon Lender posted about the "Moses illusion" but I think that this also accounts for some of the Mandela effects - in addition to people not having perfect memory.

Another article on the Moses Illusion is here: https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-the-moses-illusion-1691328

"[T]ry this: 'Can a man marry his widow’s sister?'

I'll admit I had to read that twice.:lol:

My brain when "Hold up! What?"

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