Biden Says It Is Time for U.S. Troops to Leave Afghanistan

[Grim Reaper 6]

14 minutes ago, Jon the frog said:

There's the Afghanistan Oil Pipeline in the mix too... to bring oil from Turkmenistan to India backed by the US...  But damn how much blood per barrel of oil we need for our greed ?

That's a great question and I think it should be a Mute Topic. In reality the US doesnt need oil form any of those Nations the Oil reserves in international waters and upon the Continental United States would last for more than 100 years. I think the US should stick to the oil business within our boarders, and let the rest of world fight it over the Middle Eastern Reserves.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 4/20/2021 at 9:58 PM, joc said:

We killed Osama in Tora Bora.  No question.  We never found the body because we didn't look.  Am I the only one who knows what a Daisy Cutter is?  No..see...the Media mucks up everything so they can control the narrative.  

 

I know the daisy cutter and the MOAB. (mother of all bombs :)) 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

16 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

The reason I am certain he did not die at Tora Bira, is because he still making calls and was tracked by that Phone into Pakistan and then  he just disappeared.

Interesting stuff, Manwon.

Tell me, was OBL in Afghanistan for sure? Some think he was in Pakistan all along. 

And when he was discovered to be in Pakistan, the age old question comes up... Why didn't the troops in Afghanistan get shifted to Pakistan?

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Interesting stuff, Manwon.

Tell me, was OBL in Afghanistan for sure? Some think he was in Pakistan all along. 

And when he was discovered to be in Pakistan, the age old question comes up... Why didn't the troops in Afghanistan get shifted to Pakistan?

 

Yes he was, like I said they tracked his calls and there is no doubt he was in Afghanistan. Then once he realized they could not win the battle or even hold their positions, the coward communicated that his fighters must hold out and that was the last communication in Afghanistan. Later early the next day he contacted his people in Afghanistan and after call he just disappeared.

I dont understand your next question why weren't what troops transferred to Pakistan?

[+joc]

9 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

 

I know the daisy cutter and the MOAB. (mother of all bombs :)) 

Oh  my goodness.  I thought they were the same thing.  My bad.  The MOAB replaced the Daisy Cutter.

The demolition GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast (MOAB) is the biggest conventional bomb the U.S. has ever dropped in combat—by far. The MOAB was developed by the Air Force Research Laboratory as a replacement for the BLU-82B/C-130 “Daisy Cutter,” a 15,000-lb., non-guided air-blast munition first used in the Vietnam War. link

[+joc]

9 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Yes he was, like I said they tracked his calls and there is no doubt he was in Afghanistan. Then once he realized they could not win the battle or even hold their positions, the coward communicated that his fighters must hold out and that was the last communication in Afghanistan. Later early the next day he contacted his people in Afghanistan and after call he just disappeared.

I dont understand your next question why weren't what troops transferred to Pakistan?

 

We did indeed know where he was in Afghanistan...which is precisely why we dropped this:

Do you honestly believed he escaped on a magic donkey?

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

54 minutes ago, joc said:

 

We did indeed know where he was in Afghanistan...which is precisely why we dropped this:

Do you honestly believed he escaped on a magic donkey?

 

@Earl.Of.Trumps Your belief that he was killed at Tora Bora is wrong, yes they tried to kill him by using bombs. But I reality they were never successful, be the US Government would not commit ground troops to block all the escape routes. Honestly believe what ever you want to, but, I am offering you a declassified document that explains how he escaped. If you choose to not believe it, that's fine with me!

Nah not on a Majic Donkey, he just walked away and left his people to die. That's what cowards do, they never put on the vest and blow themselves up, or drive the car bomb and detonated it. They leave those missions for their brain washed followers, scum bags like Osama Bin Ladin never believed all the BS about having a special seat next Allah, or the reward of a thousand virgins. That's just nonsense they make to brain wash the ignorant masses that will follow them. 

Here is what actually occurred, whether you choose to believe it is entirely up to you. I am completely certain like I have been saying throughout this thread that he was tracked by Radio from Tora Bora to Pakistan where the last communication from him was heard I wasn't at Tora Bora when they dropped the Big Widow Maker, at that point I was already in route back to the US. However, I had friends that were there to the very end and it was through bad judgement on the part of the US Government that he did escape.

The power that be at that time did not want to commit the troops to over run the caves and tunnels at Tora Bora. The Military Chain of Command, however, did want to make it a priority to capture or kill him, but the idiot Donald Rumsfeld would not give the Military Commander General Franks the authority to do what should have been done. Here is how they new he was there, however do to the short radio transmission they never were able to located his exact position. The best they could do was to get within a square mile of his location.

Below is a government document that explains it detail how they knew he was at Tora Bora, and also when he left and disappeared into the tribal areas of Pakistan.

Dalton Fury recounted his experiences in a book, Kill Bin Laden, which was published in 2008. He expanded on them in interviews with committee staff. Both the book and the interviews left no doubt that Fury's team knew bin Laden was holed up at Tora Bora and that he was eager to go get him. In the interviews, he explained that Al Qaeda fighters arrayed in the mountains used unsecure radios, which meant their communications were easily intercepted by his team and by a sophisticated listening post a few miles from the mountain.

As a result, the Delta Force and CIA operatives had real-time eavesdropping capabilities on Al Qaeda almost from their arrival, allowing them to track movements and gauge the effectiveness of the bombing. Even more valuable, a few days after arriving, one of the CIA operatives picked up a radio from a dead Al Qaeda fighter. The radio gave the Americans a clear channel into the group's communications on the mountain. Bin Laden's voice was often picked up, along with frequent comments about the presence of the man referred to by his followers as ``the sheikh.

Fury, who still uses his pen name to protect his identity, 
said there was no doubt the voice on the radios was bin Laden. 
``The CIA had a guy with them called Jalal and he was the 
foremost expert on bin Laden's voice,'' he said. ``He worked on 
bin Laden's voice for seven years and he knew him better than 
anyone else in the West. To him, it was very clear that bin 
Laden was there on the mountain.''
   
 Another special operations expert who speaks fluent Arabic 
and heard the intercepted communications in real time in 
Afghanistan told the committee staff that it was clearly bin 
Laden's voice. He had studied the Al Qaeda leader's speech 
pattern and word choices before the war and he said he 
considered the communications a perfect match. 

For several days in early December, Fury's special ops 
troops moved up the mountains in pairs with fighters from the 
Afghan militias. The Americans used GPS devices and laser range 
finders to pinpoint caves and pockets of enemy fighters for the 
bombers. The Delta Force units were unable to hold any high 
ground because the Afghans insisted on retreating to their base 
at the bottom of the mountains each night, leaving the 
Americans alone inside Al Qaeda territory. 

Still, it was clear from what they could see and what they were hearing in the 
intercepted conversations that relentless bombing was taking 
its toll. 

On December 9, a C-130 cargo plane dropped a 15,000-pound 
bomb, known as a Daisy Cutter, on the Tora Bora complex. The 
weapon had not been used since Vietnam, and there were early 
fears that its impact had not been as great as expected. But 
later reports confirmed that the bomb struck with massive 
force. A captured Al Qaeda fighter who was there later told 
American interrogators that men deep in caves had been 
vaporized in what he called ``a hideous explosion.'' That day 
and others, Fury described intercepting radio communications in 
which Al Qaeda fighters called for the ``red truck to move 
wounded'' and frantic pleas from a fighter to his commander, 
saying ``cave too hot, can't reach others. 

At one point, the Americans listened on the radio as bin 
Laden exhorted his men to keep fighting, though he apologized 
``for getting them trapped and pounded by American 
airstrikes.'' On December 11, Fury said bin Laden was heard on 
the radio telling his men that he had let them down and it was 
okay to surrender. Fury hoped the battle was over, but he would 
soon determine that it was part of an elaborate ruse to allow 
Al Qaeda fighters to slip out of Tora Bora for Pakistan.
    Fury is adamant that bin Laden was at Tora Bora until mid-
December. ``There is no doubt that bin Laden was in Tora Bora 
during the fighting,'' he wrote in Kill Bin Laden. ``From 
alleged sightings to the radio intercepts to news reports from 
various countries, it was repeatedly confirmed that he was 
there.''

Fury was not alone in his conviction. In some cases, 
confirmation that bin Laden was at Tora Bora has come from 
detainees at Guantanamo Bay. A ``summary of evidence'' prepared 
by the Pentagon for the trial of an unnamed detainee says 
flatly that the man ``assisted in the escape of Osama bin Laden 
from Tora Bora.'' The detainee was described as one of bin 
Laden's commanders in the fight against the Soviets. The 
document, which was released to the Associated Press in 2005 
through a Freedom of Information request, was the first 
definitive statement by the Pentagon that the mastermind of 9/
11 was at Tora Bora during the American bombing before slipping 
away into Pakistan.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CPRT-111SPRT53709/html/CPRT-111SPRT53709.htm

Edited April 22, 2021 by Manwon Lender

[+joc]

23 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

the idiot Donald Rumsfeld

So...your entire argument for OB walking out of the mountains is political. 

Thanks...

[Grim Reaper 6]

Just now, joc said:

So...your entire argument for OB walking out of the mountains is political. 

Thanks...

Please don't try and twist my comments, I have proven my point with factual sources of information. You on the other hand have and are still only offering only your opinion, which is worthless concerning proving what you said is correct. So please your the one who said that Osama Bin Ladin was buried alive and died in the bombing of Tora Bora, its time you supply some source of information that supports the comments you made or you should just fade away into obscurity, because It is very obvious by your response here that you are unable to admit your wrong. 

So please again I ask you respectfully to back up your comments, or just don't respond again because that is another way you can bow out gracefully and save face?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:17 PM, Manwon Lender said:

Yes he was, like I said they tracked his calls and there is no doubt he was in Afghanistan. Then once he realized they could not win the battle or even hold their positions, the coward communicated that his fighters must hold out and that was the last communication in Afghanistan. Later early the next day he contacted his people in Afghanistan and after call he just disappeared.

I dont understand your next question why weren't what troops transferred to Pakistan?

The troops we had in Afghanistan.

If  US troops were dispatched to Afghanistan to get OBL (as we were told), then when OBL proved to be in Pakistan, why weren't these troops
that were in Afghanistan **looking for OBL** then sent to the right country, Pakistan, to *look for OBL*?

I've obviously tried to demonstrate that when troops were sent to Afghanistan in the first place, it was NOT about trying to get OBL. That's now obvious.
We also know that it did not make sense to send thousands of troops to get OBL when just a few soldiers from Seal Team six took out OBL in Operation Neptune Spear.

The long and short of it is... we do not know why troops were sent in to Afghanistan in the first place. The cover story was "to get OBL". 

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

On 4/22/2021 at 8:15 AM, Manwon Lender said:

@Earl.Of.Trumps Your belief that he was killed at Tora Bora is wrong, yes they tried to kill him by using bombs. But I reality they were never successful, be the US Government would not commit ground troops to block all the escape routes. Honestly believe what ever you want to, but, I am offering you a declassified document that explains how he escaped. If you choose to not believe it, that's fine with me!

I never said OBL was killed at Tora Bora - not sure where you got that, Manwon. And I believe that he may not have been in Afghanistan at all. I have yet to read
your text below so my opinion on that is subject to change.

On 4/22/2021 at 8:15 AM, Manwon Lender said:

Nah not on a Majic Donkey, he just walked away and left his people to die. That's what cowards do, they never put on the vest and blow themselves up, or drive the car bomb and detonated it. They leave those missions for their brain washed followers, scum bags like Osama Bin Ladin never believed all the BS about having a special seat next Allah, or the reward of a thousand virgins. That's just nonsense they make to brain wash the ignorant masses that will follow them. 

Here is what actually occurred, whether you choose to believe it is entirely up to you. I am completely certain like I have been saying throughout this thread that he was tracked by Radio from Tora Bora to Pakistan where the last communication from him was heard I wasn't at Tora Bora when they dropped the Big Widow Maker, at that point I was already in route back to the US. However, I had friends that were there to the very end and it was through bad judgement on the part of the US Government that he did escape.

The power that be at that time did not want to commit the troops to over run the caves and tunnels at Tora Bora. The Military Chain of Command, however, did want to make it a priority to capture or kill him, but the idiot Donald Rumsfeld would not give the Military Commander General Franks the authority to do what should have been done. Here is how they new he was there, however do to the short radio transmission they never were able to located his exact position. The best they could do was to get within a square mile of his location.

Below is a government document that explains it detail how they knew he was at Tora Bora, and also when he left and disappeared into the tribal areas of Pakistan.

Dalton Fury recounted his experiences in a book, Kill Bin Laden, which was published in 2008. He expanded on them in interviews with committee staff. Both the book and the interviews left no doubt that Fury's team knew bin Laden was holed up at Tora Bora and that he was eager to go get him. In the interviews, he explained that Al Qaeda fighters arrayed in the mountains used unsecure radios, which meant their communications were easily intercepted by his team and by a sophisticated listening post a few miles from the mountain.

As a result, the Delta Force and CIA operatives had real-time eavesdropping capabilities on Al Qaeda almost from their arrival, allowing them to track movements and gauge the effectiveness of the bombing. Even more valuable, a few days after arriving, one of the CIA operatives picked up a radio from a dead Al Qaeda fighter. The radio gave the Americans a clear channel into the group's communications on the mountain. Bin Laden's voice was often picked up, along with frequent comments about the presence of the man referred to by his followers as ``the sheikh.

Fury, who still uses his pen name to protect his identity, 
said there was no doubt the voice on the radios was bin Laden. 
``The CIA had a guy with them called Jalal and he was the 
foremost expert on bin Laden's voice,'' he said. ``He worked on 
bin Laden's voice for seven years and he knew him better than 
anyone else in the West. To him, it was very clear that bin 
Laden was there on the mountain.''
   
 Another special operations expert who speaks fluent Arabic 
and heard the intercepted communications in real time in 
Afghanistan told the committee staff that it was clearly bin 
Laden's voice. He had studied the Al Qaeda leader's speech 
pattern and word choices before the war and he said he 
considered the communications a perfect match. 

For several days in early December, Fury's special ops 
troops moved up the mountains in pairs with fighters from the 
Afghan militias. The Americans used GPS devices and laser range 
finders to pinpoint caves and pockets of enemy fighters for the 
bombers. The Delta Force units were unable to hold any high 
ground because the Afghans insisted on retreating to their base 
at the bottom of the mountains each night, leaving the 
Americans alone inside Al Qaeda territory. 

Still, it was clear from what they could see and what they were hearing in the 
intercepted conversations that relentless bombing was taking 
its toll. 

On December 9, a C-130 cargo plane dropped a 15,000-pound 
bomb, known as a Daisy Cutter, on the Tora Bora complex. The 
weapon had not been used since Vietnam, and there were early 
fears that its impact had not been as great as expected. But 
later reports confirmed that the bomb struck with massive 
force. A captured Al Qaeda fighter who was there later told 
American interrogators that men deep in caves had been 
vaporized in what he called ``a hideous explosion.'' That day 
and others, Fury described intercepting radio communications in 
which Al Qaeda fighters called for the ``red truck to move 
wounded'' and frantic pleas from a fighter to his commander, 
saying ``cave too hot, can't reach others. 

At one point, the Americans listened on the radio as bin 
Laden exhorted his men to keep fighting, though he apologized 
``for getting them trapped and pounded by American 
airstrikes.'' On December 11, Fury said bin Laden was heard on 
the radio telling his men that he had let them down and it was 
okay to surrender. Fury hoped the battle was over, but he would 
soon determine that it was part of an elaborate ruse to allow 
Al Qaeda fighters to slip out of Tora Bora for Pakistan.
    Fury is adamant that bin Laden was at Tora Bora until mid-
December. ``There is no doubt that bin Laden was in Tora Bora 
during the fighting,'' he wrote in Kill Bin Laden. ``From 
alleged sightings to the radio intercepts to news reports from 
various countries, it was repeatedly confirmed that he was 
there.''

Fury was not alone in his conviction. In some cases, 
confirmation that bin Laden was at Tora Bora has come from 
detainees at Guantanamo Bay. A ``summary of evidence'' prepared 
by the Pentagon for the trial of an unnamed detainee says 
flatly that the man ``assisted in the escape of Osama bin Laden 
from Tora Bora.'' The detainee was described as one of bin 
Laden's commanders in the fight against the Soviets. The 
document, which was released to the Associated Press in 2005 
through a Freedom of Information request, was the first 
definitive statement by the Pentagon that the mastermind of 9/
11 was at Tora Bora during the American bombing before slipping 
away into Pakistan.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CPRT-111SPRT53709/html/CPRT-111SPRT53709.htm

this---> "Fury hoped the battle was over, but he would soon determine that it was part of an elaborate ruse to allow Al Qaeda fighters to slip out of Tora Bora for Pakistan."

But Mawwon, it is not dated. I am thinking that when Fury says that OBL was in Tora Bora until "December" that he meant 2002. But that is just a guess. The doc lacks dates.

Manwon, thanks for the info. 

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

The troops we had in Afghanistan.

If  US troops were dispatched to Afghanistan to get OBL (as we were told), then when OBL proved to be in Pakistan, why weren't these troops
that were in Afghanistan **looking for OBL** then sent to the right country, Pakistan, to *look for OBL*?

I've obviously tried to demonstrate that when troops were sent to Afghanistan in the first place, it was NOT about trying to get OBL. That's now obvious.
We also know that it did not make sense to send thousands of troops to get OBL when just a few soldiers from Seal Team six took out OBL in Operation Neptune Spear.

The long and short of it is... we do not know why troops were sent in to Afghanistan in the first place. The cover story was "to get OBL". 

It's very obvious why troops were sent to Afghanistan, why I was sent there during the invasion. Originally it was to either capture or kill OBL, however, do to a very bad decision by a senior elected official in the Bush Administration he was allowed to escape into Pakistan. That foolish error caused a manhunt that lasted another 8 years. The reason we were sent to Afghanistan was because it was being used as a training base of operations for terrorist organizations by OBL, also it was where the terrorists that carried out the 9/11 attack in New York were trained and where the attack was planned. Not to mention that indirectly the Taliban the ruling Government were also responsible for allowing OBL to use their country for that purpose.

 

2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I never said OBL was killed at Tora Bora - not sure where you got that, Manwon. And I believe that he may not have been in Afghanistan at all. I have yet to read
your text below so my opinion on that is subject to change.

this---> "Fury hoped the battle was over, but he would soon determine that it was part of an elaborate ruse to allow Al Qaeda fighters to slip out of Tora Bora for Pakistan."

But Mawwon, it is not dated. I am thinking that when Fury says that OBL was in Tora Bora until "December" that he meant 2002. But that is just a guess. The doc lacks dates.

Manwon, thanks for the info. 

 

I am sorry if I was clear about OBL my comments were directed at Jock, not you I never intended to make those comments appear to apply to you forthat I apologize sincerely. Jock was the one making false and completely uniformed claims, not you, again I am sorry my friend.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Manwon Lender

[docyabut2]

Leave Afghanistan and start the war over again

[Tatetopa]

19 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Leave Afghanistan and start the war over again

If you wanted to start another war, you should have voted for Hillary in the first place.

[Grim Reaper 6]

12 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

If you wanted to start another war, you should have voted for Hillary in the first place.

Tate, I don't believe she meant to say we should leave and then come back and start the war all over again. I am pretty certain that she meant it would be terrible if that happened. There has been talk that if we pullout that in the future after the Taliban takes control of Afghanistan again. That they may start allowing terrorists to hide there or start using Afghanistan as a training location again, like they did when Osama Bin Laden as there before the 9/11 attack. I am pretty certain it makes her sad that the possibility exists that we may have to return again, I just think she was completely clear when she posted her comments.

Take Care My Friend, good to see you posting to day I have been a little worries about you. I have noticed that much of what is going on in the US has gotten you down!

32 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Leave Afghanistan and start the war over again

Docycie I understand your feelings very well, I also hope when I Soldiers come home that we never return to that hell hole. 

I hope you and your family are well and safe!

Edited April 24, 2021 by Manwon Lender

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I never said OBL was killed at Tora Bora - not sure where you got that, Manwon. And I believe that he may not have been in Afghanistan at all. I have yet to read
your text below so my opinion on that is subject to change.

this---> "Fury hoped the battle was over, but he would soon determine that it was part of an elaborate ruse to allow Al Qaeda fighters to slip out of Tora Bora for Pakistan."

But Mawwon, it is not dated. I am thinking that when Fury says that OBL was in Tora Bora until "December" that he meant 2002. But that is just a guess. The doc lacks dates.

Manwon, thanks for the info. 

 

I understand that, but the battle in Tora Bora was completed in early 2002, so it was obviously intended to depict December 2001. 

Take Care my friend.

[docyabut2]

 I m sorry we are  fighting that Afghanistan war with the Talibans that will take over again by our leavening . 

Talibans will  kill children ever in their learning

 

The Afghan Taliban have condemned a raid on a school in Peshawar that left 141 dead in the country's bloodiest ever terror attack, saying killing innocent children was against Islam:(

https://www.dawn.com/news/1151407

Edited April 24, 2021 by docyabut2

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

Tate, I don't believe she meant to say we should leave and then come back and start the war all over again. I am pretty certain that she meant it would be terrible if that happened. There has been talk that if we pullout that in the future after the Taliban takes control of Afghanistan again. That they may start allowing terrorists to hide there or start using Afghanistan as a training location again, like they did when Osama Bin Laden as there before the 9/11 attack. I am pretty certain it makes her sad that the possibility exists that we may have to return again, I just think she was completely clear when she posted her comments.

Take Care My Friend, good to see you posting to day I have been a little worries about you. I have noticed that much of what is going on in the US has gotten you down!

I bet you are right. 

As an outside force, we will never be able to instill Western Democratic values in people that don't want them.   This is gardening time in our area, pruning fruit trees, fertilizing, planting, harvesting overwintered onions.    It all seems so much more real and enjoyable than online craziness.  It is by far the most work I have done in the last 4 months.

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

 I m sorry we are  fighting that Afghanistan war with the Talibans that will take over again by our leavening . 

Talibans will  kill children ever in their learning

 

The Afghan Taliban have condemned a raid on a school in Peshawar that left 141 dead in the country's bloodiest ever terror attack, saying killing innocent children was against Islam:(

Hi Docy, now I understand you.  Yes it is sad.  War always brings the most suffering to the innocent, kids and moms.   

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

I bet you are right. 

As an outside force, we will never be able to instill Western Democratic values in people that don't want them.   This is gardening time in our area, pruning fruit trees, fertilizing, planting, harvesting overwintered onions.    It all seems so much more real and enjoyable than online craziness.  It is by far the most work I have done in the last 4 months.

I am glad you have found something you enjoy, I hope my comments didn't come off as offense. For me my Spiritual belief in the Philosophy of Buddhism reenergizes me when thing start to get me down. All I have to do is leave my home and drive less than 10 miles and I can be at favorite Meditation spot. During the week there isn't a soul around, and the countryside is so beautiful and peaceful. When I am mediating there many times I get a wonderful peaceful feeling, like Buddhist Priests of the past are standing beside on my journey. I know that sounds very corny but, I am very serious, however, I do realize that its only my mind playing tricks on me.    Below is where I go:

 Carved in either the late 6th or early 7th century CE, the carving consists of a Buddha standing on a lotus leaf, flanked by two Bodhisattva. Although this carving has been designated a National Treasure of Korea, it receives relatively few visitors due to its isolation.

 

 

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

 I m sorry we are  fighting that Afghanistan war with the Talibans that will take over again by our leavening . 

Talibans will  kill children ever in their learning

 

The Afghan Taliban have condemned a raid on a school in Peshawar that left 141 dead in the country's bloodiest ever terror attack, saying killing innocent children was against Islam:(

https://www.dawn.com/news/1151407

Yes that is really terrible, unfortunately it always the innocent who suffer the most at the hands of criminals like the Taliban. I am also with you, its going to be terrible fore the people when the US leaves, but I suppose I am selfish because I really want who Soldiers to come home, they have also suffered enough!!