The Dove and Holy Spirit

[Guyver]

Greetings.  So, in the Bible, specifically the New Testament, but not the Old as I know it (please correct me if I’m wrong) the Holy Spirit is represented as a dove.  In the New Testament after Jesus’ baptism by John, in the gospels it is said that the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove.  You may insert a dozen other New Testament references demonstrating clearly that the Holy Spirit is symbolically represented as a dove.  In Christian theology, the “Holy Spirit” is either God, or one third God of the Trinity.  In any event, the New Testament God or his Spirit is represented as a dove.

     But, in my mind, a dove is a really dumb lucky animal with almost no skill or intelligence at all, but relies completely on instinct for survival.  I say this because I have been observing them and I don’t think they have enough intelligence to understand that they are being stalked by predatory birds, aka raptors....that wish to eat them.  But the crow, or the raven, they are smart enough to know that and they actually band together and drive away the predator.  But not the dove.  It just sits there like food to be eaten and doesn’t even plan a skillful escape route.  They fail on escaping.  But, the crow doesn’t.  Interesting the crow looks like the devil might be and has been represented as such.

[Guyver]

So, God is like a dumb animal.  I just have a problem with this theology.

[Guyver]

I think, if there be such a thing as God, it’s not like a dumb animal, so why refer to it as such?  The Native Americans called him Great Spirit.  That is so far superior in my mind, and it is older.

[XenoFish]

Considering its probably pure symbolism.

https://www.thehistorypress.co.uk/articles/peace-symbols-through-history

https://www.ancient-symbols.com/symbols-directory/dove.html

Edited April 15, 2021 by Xeno-Fish

[Guyver]

The problem I’m having is that my wife is a Christian, but she’s also really smart.  I try to respect her beliefs and her right to them, but as I examine these beliefs in my mind they seem foolish.  But, saying that is offensive, so I try to only insert my opinion if asked for, and I try to explain God as I know....him, her, it, Sir or Madam or whatever it is supposed to be called.  Anyway, I don’t know what to believe about God so I don’t say much, especially since I used to be a Christian, was a preacher and led her to faith in Christianity in the first place.

[Guyver]

It seems so crazy to me now, but at one time I was completely convinced it was real.

[Guyver]

In a way that really sucks, but on the other hand I’d rather have the truth.  And in my mind no one know who God is.

[zep73]

Bare in mind that Christianity is a Jewish sect, and the story you are referring to was written by someone who wasn't there. It probably never happened.
And the Jews don't have a trinity God. Just a single one.

[Guyver]

Some people say they know who God is.  Big deal.  You saying you know who God is doesn’t mean Jack diddley squat on a warmed silver platter.  There’s no way to show that God is real based upon their perceptions.  Your perceptions could be off because you had no other way to reconcile the information, which happens to be the same thing that happened to me, so I get it.

[Guyver]

2 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Bare in mind that Christianity is a Jewish sect, and the story you are referring to was written by someone who wasn't there. It probably never happened.
And the Jews don't have a trinity God. Just a single one.

Try telling that to a Southern Baptist or a snake handler.

[XenoFish]

In a bit of a rant mood tonight guyver?

[Guyver]

Anyway, I just thought it an interesting religious or superstitious juxtaposition to the black of the crow and the white of the dove and how silly the whole thing seems to me now.  So, thank you.

[Guyver]

1 minute ago, Xeno-Fish said:

In a bit of a rant mood tonight guyver?

Maybe just a touch.  I have a tooth ache that is killing me because unfortunately my dentist isn’t particularly skillful.  Yes, she is fired and I’m thankful to have found a new dentist who is very skillful.  So praise be.  Learned a lesson the hard way.  Pain sucks for me.  I’m not good with it.  Interesting that Christians used to torture people to death.  But, so did the Heathens so whatever.

[Guyver]

The Jehovah Witnesses won’t come near my door anymore because I made one of the Elders stroke out one day.  Seriously, he literally almost had a heart attack.  Yes, I invited he and his fellow elder into my home and debated them on the Bible.  It was quite a show, wish I could have put it on YouTube.  The old guy couldn’t handle it and went out shaking and screaming lol.  True story.

[psyche101]

1 minute ago, Guyver said:

The Jehovah Witnesses won’t come near my door anymore because I made one of the Elders stroke out one day.  Seriously, he literally almost had a heart attack.  Yes, I invited he and his fellow elder into my home and debated them on the Bible.  It was quite a show, wish I could have put it on YouTube.  The old guy couldn’t handle it and went out shaking and screaming lol.  True story.

Try just answering the door naked.

Much quicker result and no drama. 

[XenoFish]

7 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Maybe just a touch.  I have a tooth ache that is killing me because unfortunately my dentist isn’t particularly skillful.  Yes, she is fired and I’m thankful to have found a new dentist who is very skillful.  So praise be.  Learned a lesson the hard way.  Pain sucks for me.  I’m not good with it.  Interesting that Christians used to torture people to death.  But, so did the Heathens so whatever.

Hope you get to feeling better. Toothache's suck.

[Guyver]

1 minute ago, Xeno-Fish said:

Hope you get to feeling better. Toothache's suck.

I’ve had such great luck with teeth.  But no ones perfect and my dentist fumbled this one big time.  It was so simple, just a cap, but no...three months now and tooth not fixed.  Aaargh.  Anyway, I didn’t intend a b**** session so I should sign out, I’m drinking whiskey neet.

[XenoFish]

Just now, Guyver said:

I’ve had such great luck with teeth.  But no ones perfect and my dentist fumbled this one big time.  It was so simple, just a cap, but no...three months now and tooth not fixed.  Aaargh.  Anyway, I didn’t intend a b**** session so I should sign out, I’m drinking whiskey neet.

We all have our moments where we want to scream at the world. My wisdom teeth took out all but two of my molars, both have fillings. 

[Guyver]

I’ll just listen to y’all.  But I’ll try to post a picture from where I observe birds, and I observe many more species besides doves and crows.

[Guyver]

[Guyver]

That’s not the best picture, it doesn’t represent my view, but it shows the bird feeder, FWIW.

[Guyver]

BTW, I’m fixin to do a karaoke style number on Werewolves Of London semi-full volume because the Mrs had to work late tonight. Lol.  So, know you know more about me.  The source of this thread is now someone you know more about. I like to celebrate my golf wins with whiskey neet, then I play selected tunes, loudly....sometimes accompany on percussion, or vocals or both....and pretty much just have a man fest jam session.  Gotta live or you’re dying don’t cha no.

[Hankenhunter]

1 hour ago, Guyver said:

Greetings.  So, in the Bible, specifically the New Testament, but not the Old as I know it (please correct me if I’m wrong) the Holy Spirit is represented as a dove.  In the New Testament after Jesus’ baptism by John, in the gospels it is said that the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove.  You may insert a dozen other New Testament references demonstrating clearly that the Holy Spirit is symbolically represented as a dove.  In Christian theology, the “Holy Spirit” is either God, or one third God of the Trinity.  In any event, the New Testament God or his Spirit is represented as a dove.

     But, in my mind, a dove is a really dumb lucky animal with almost no skill or intelligence at all, but relies completely on instinct for survival.  I say this because I have been observing them and I don’t think they have enough intelligence to understand that they are being stalked by predatory birds, aka raptors....that wish to eat them.  But the crow, or the raven, they are smart enough to know that and they actually band together and drive away the predator.  But not the dove.  It just sits there like food to be eaten and doesn’t even plan a skillful escape route.  They fail on escaping.  But, the crow doesn’t.  Interesting the crow looks like the devil might be and has been represented as such.

Late to the party.

Not meaning to be disrespectful. From what I've gathered over the years is that you are the holy spirit. God, the son, and the holy spirit. God is well... God. The son is Jesus, and you are a holy spirit made by God. The holy Trinity. There is no devil, except for the ones living, and living off us. I think Satan, if he existed, would be hard pressed to keep up with the atrocities committed here on earth. We've gotten quite proficient at it. That's if you believe this stuff, and I do. To a point.

[Guyver]

Well, technically...you’re dying either way so it doesn’t matter what you do, but I’m thankful to try and have a good time along this crazy road.

[Guyver]

1 minute ago, Hankenhunter said:

Late to the party.

Not meaning to be disrespectful. From what I've gathered over the years is that you are the holy spirit. God, the son, and the holy spirit. God is well... God. The son is Jesus, and you are a holy spirit made by God. The holy Trinity. There is no devil, except for the ones living, and living off us. I think Satan, if he existed, would be hard pressed to keep up with the atrocities committed here on earth. We've gotten quite proficient at it. That's if you believe this stuff, and I do. To a point.

But, according to Christians of many varieties you’re not actually the Holy Spirit, you’re just sealed by the Holy Spirit until the Day of Redemtion.