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How does America's gun violence cycle end?


Grim Reaper 6

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4 hours ago, odas said:

But then, again, your use of BIG guns likely is your way to compensate for other shortcommings in the front mid area of your body. I mean, if we are to go with insults well...

Hey man, I'll tell ya the same thing I told the other gay men that approach me, when they tried to hit on me using that same gay code line with the same wording involving large guns and penis - dude, I'm straight as an arrow and I don't swing that way. Okay? But I'm flattered, honest, really I am, but naw man, just NO!

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Yeah, funny. You missed the point though. My condenscending attitude towards you is not your use of guns, but the lack of the use of your brain.

I practise Judo since I was 8. Only and strictly for my health and the occasional selfdefence if I was not able to run faster than my opponent.

You can joke about Bears and Boars as much as you want. 

 

Well when you type the specific sentences (that I bolded ) in your posts below, I got to wonder if you're using any part of your brain -

13 hours ago, odas said:

Wrong. Specifically in the US. My friends, you are a people full of fear. You live in fear of everything. You claim you are "free" but you are the most closed Country. Otherwise you would not need guns. Only free citizens do not need guns. You are also a country with the most cowards. Only cowards need a gun because they cannot handle a good old fistfight.

I don't say that because I hate, on the contrary, I really like America and that is a well meaning constructive critisizm. 

Get rid off the guns, train your police forces properly, pay them above avareage, fire them on spot for misconduct, lock people up for real crimes, no matter of background, and not for a pitty crime, get rid off for profitt private prisons...and you will be truly free.

 

13 hours ago, odas said:

People who are weak, elderly people, disabled..need to be taken care of. The money that is spent on guns should go instead to propper healthcare, financial support, education...and then the IT guy does not need to take UFC classes because there would not be a need for it.

Appart from some third world countries, where else in the civilized world do you have a need for citizens having guns? 

Education my friend is the only weapon a free man really needs.

 - because overall, the above tells me you don't think we need guns for anything and that we're chicken shitz because we don't even fight some of the dangerous wildlife with our bare hands using martial arts.Because you're coming off as some kind of deranged Internet tough guy that thinks he can face any encounter with your bare fists and feet. So i just like to see you try that martial arts crap with a few bears and wild hogs, without a gun. Seriously, if you could pull it off and prove me wrong as to why we don't need any guns to at least cull the wildlife, hell you'd be above Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee. You'd be a martial arts god if you could kick grisly bear ass without getting mauled to death. And I just wanted to see if a Internet tough guy like yourself could do it. That's all. Don't take it personally.

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56 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

And you think there werent mass killings and massacres back during the time of the founding fathers or of children playing with guns and various weapons and killing themselves or others on accident.  

Good to see your true opinion that any culture you dont agree with is barbaric and uncivilized.  Such belief in one's own moral superiority has historically lead to the most horrific incidents in human history.  

And you think your founders expected mass killings and children getting shot at school today with the globes highest numbers of killings? 

You don't think they expected that situation to improve?

We had massacres of the indigenous to be ashamed of today too. We had deadly weapons freely available too. We didn't continue with 1800 style 

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Being so civilized as yourself you should be able to get the concept that some ideas transcend any cost.

Not children's lives.

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Failures cause they held a different belief then yourself.   Considering what they wrote is still relevant seems they envisaged stuff rather well even if it goes against your self proclaimed moral superiority and level of civilization.

If they thought today's world would be as it was in the 1700s how do you see that as a success? What instances regarding weapons are you referring to i.e. what is relevant today regarding weapons? 

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You do seem to of fallen for the fallacy that being defenseless makes you moral and civilized when all it has done is left you harmless and completely at the mercy of others, but some people prefer living on their knees then living standing up.

You seem to have fallen for the fallacy that you're not on your knees everyday because you have a weapon that your actually hiding behind. Without weapons we walk freely and enjoy life instead of living perpetually in the rest that the one in a million chance that you might need it happens along. All the innocent people dying for that fear. 

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50 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I keep seeing blame put on Gun Culture. How many of the 330 million Americans are part of gun culture? 20%?? Assume that for now.

How many mass shootings has there been in the last 20 years. Let's say 150. 

So that's 150 out of 66 million. Or 0.0002% likelihood of a gun culture person committing a mass shootings. 

So the FIX, according to Democrats, is to punish the 99.9998% of people, who are obeying the law, because there's been 10+ people per year who had mental health issues and were under watch by the FBI already. 

Who thinks thats fair?

Usually the people in charge that want to control the rest of us without having to worry about us being armed. Disarm the people, bit by bit, until we have nothing and it would be a lot easier for them to deal with us. We'd be subservient under threats and tyranny.

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42 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I keep seeing blame put on Gun Culture. How many of the 330 million Americans are part of gun culture? 20%?? Assume that for now.

How many mass shootings has there been in the last 20 years. Let's say 150. 

So that's 150 out of 66 million. Or 0.0002% likelihood of a gun culture person committing a mass shootings. 

So the FIX, according to Democrats, is to punish the 99.9998% of people, who are obeying the law, because there's been 10+ people per year who had mental health issues and were under watch by the FBI already. 

Who thinks thats fair?

How many people were involved in 911 compared to how many died?

Gun culture is like a disease. It propagates and entices irresponsible gun handling usage and ownership. 

What's fair about kids in schools being shot? 

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21 minutes ago, Gunn said:

Usually the people in charge that want to control the rest of us without having to worry about us being armed. Disarm the people, bit by bit, until we have nothing and it would be a lot easier for them to deal with us. We'd be subservient under threats and tyranny.

As if guns would make any difference at all to a takeover. What do you think arming people accomplishes other than too many innocent people dying? What do you think people are to be disarmed for? 

You're not making any sense. Disarm people to control them for what? They need to be armed to prevent such control how?

Redcoats?

What's with all the tyranny BS? What sort of an immediate threat is that and what would having a gun do? Another raid on the Capitol? Kill any liberal or left leaning person?

Couldn't be as simple as slowing the death rates of innocent people by any chance? I mean that's just way too out there as a concept I take it? 

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1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

That was an island, with everyone agreeing it was a good idea, and a population equal to one of our big cities. Where 90% of the population is European in ancestry. 

Sorry, that's way oversimplifying the issue. 

No it's not 

The second line is the real hurdle. Not the first. So what. It's just a bloody big island. 

The people are the key. 

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Didn't seem to work here. Regulating guns might have worked, but the FBI working harder for SURE would have.

Never been tried on a national scale with any convictions there. Regulating guns does work. If everyone cares enough about community to contribute on a meaningful level. 

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41 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

And you think your founders expected mass killings and children getting shot at school today with the globes highest numbers of killings? 

You don't think they expected that situation to improve?

We had massacres of the indigenous to be ashamed of today too. We had deadly weapons freely available too. We didn't continue with 1800 style 

You do understand the vast majority of America doesnt have shootings right.  That most of the nations shootings, including mass shootings, occur in a handful of cities.  Why those cities have such a violence problem goes into various issues beyond the scope of this thread.  But your base assumption on gun violence in America is just wrong.

They expected people to remain the same which they have since the start of civilization and will be the same till civilization ends.

43 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Not children's lives.

What are you willing to sacrifice for children's lives.  Would you give up free speech entirely if it saved a few children, maybe give up the entirety of your wealth if it saved a child or two which it almost certainly would, what about being euthanized to save some children, you surely use up far more resources then s child does and those could easily be redirected to saving children.  You really dont care that much about children's lives as this is just another attempt at a call to emotion which is all you seem capable of doing.

46 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

If they thought today's world would be as it was in the 1700s how do you see that as a success? What instances regarding weapons are you referring to i.e. what is relevant today regarding weapons? 

People dont change over time which is something you dont seem to get.  People are still motivated by the same things today as they were decades, centuries, and millennia ago and they will be still motivated by the same things far in the future.

Right to protect oneself and one's belongings and property is still rather relevant to weapons today.  

48 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

You seem to have fallen for the fallacy that you're not on your knees everyday because you have a weapon that your actually hiding behind. Without weapons we walk freely and enjoy life instead of living perpetually in the rest that the one in a million chance that you might need it happens along. All the innocent people dying for that fear. 

You walk around freely and enjoy life for as long as you are allowed which isnt true freedom, if you dont have the ability to defend what's yours you dont really have it.

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22 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

You do understand the vast majority of America doesnt have shootings right.  That most of the nations shootings, including mass shootings, occur in a handful of cities.  Why those cities have such a violence problem goes into various issues beyond the scope of this thread.  But your base assumption on gun violence in America is just wrong.

Does any of that change the fact that America's gun death toll is the highest on the planet? And considering that, how are my assumptions incorrect? 

22 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

They expected people to remain the same which they have since the start of civilization and will be the same till civilization ends.

They haven't though. 

Minority groups have a voice. Hell slaves were common during the time of the founders.

22 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

What are you willing to sacrifice for children's lives.  Would you give up free speech entirely if it saved a few children, maybe give up the entirety of your wealth if it saved a child or two which it almost certainly would, what about being euthanized to save some children, you surely use up far more resources then s child does and those could easily be redirected to saving children.  You really dont care that much about children's lives as this is just another attempt at a call to emotion which is all you seem capable of doing.

I don't think dying is required to show care. I think caring is required. 

Needless deaths that can be averted by simply joining the civilised world. It's that easy. Community orientated cultures have the care factor which makes all the difference. It's something that America seems to lack. That way you don't have to be a drama queen and die for your values. You can promote and live them. 

Comparing regulation of deadly weapons with self sacrifice is dramatic and completely ridiculous. I'm not especially rich. My money wouldn't pay for a bloody ingrown toenail op and dying would leave my own children without a stable parent. So suicide would be hurting more than it helps. Sorry, but that's a really dumb scenario you gave there. The more I think about it, the dumber it is. 

22 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

People dont change over time which is something you dont seem to get.  People are still motivated by the same things today as they were decades, centuries, and millennia ago and they will be still motivated by the same things far in the future.

And yet other countries made the change successfully. 

So what's wrong with America if it cannot improve for the better? 

22 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Right to protect oneself and one's belongings and property is still rather relevant to weapons today.  

Other countries show that's not the case. So do some more sensible America's. Piney uses a fire extinguishers as a self defence measure. I don't believe it. Sounds like an excuse to me.

22 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

You walk around freely and enjoy life for as long as you are allowed which isnt true freedom, if you dont have the ability to defend what's yours you dont really have it.

What do you mean allowed to?

Who do you think is monitoring true freedom? Paranoia much? 

Yes I have the ability to defend. More so than you would. I reckon a lot of people there have guns because they know they have no other ability to defend, or even the mental awareness to defend themselves in a sudden crisis situation. And I enjoy a better life with lower all round risk as a bonus. Stronger safer and no guns.

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1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

How many people were involved in 911 compared to how many died?

And when the people involved were profiled, many said it was wrong to do so, and judge people from their home countries harshly.

There were 19 terrorists in the 911 attack. They killed nearly 3000. That was not my point though.

Is it fair to blame the millions in their home nation for those killings? Should those millions have to suffer being bombed, and invaded, as a result?

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Gun culture is like a disease. It propagates and entices irresponsible gun handling usage and ownership. 

What's fair about kids in schools being shot? 

I'd disagree. Gun culture if passed on with respect for the gun, and basic training, makes it very safe. 99.99% of gun owners would likely agree.

Kids in schools? Kids shouldn't have a gun without supervision, just as they shouldn't drive a car, or run a lawnmower, or chainsaw.

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1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

No it's not 

The second line is the real hurdle. Not the first. So what. It's just a bloody big island. 

The people are the key. 

Problem being the US is very diverse. Non homogenous. Australia, though you might deny it, is near enough homogenous. Makes getting things done easier.

50% of the nation isn't going to believe anything coming from the other 50%. That's been done on purpose, to sell internet advertising, and gain clicks. Its a shame and IMHO needs to be fixed before any other societal problem will be fixed.

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Never been tried on a national scale with any convictions there. Regulating guns does work. If everyone cares enough about community to contribute on a meaningful level.

But to take guns from those most likely to be a mass shooter would require a mass turn in, and house to house searches, to find the millions of illegal guns. Which smacks of tyranny. Those with illegal guns aren't very likely to turn them in.

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59 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

 Needless deaths that can be averted by simply joining the civilised world.

So does being an "industrialized" nation make one part of the "civilized" world. I keep seeing graphs and such online that show all the nations that have strict gun laws and how there is fewer deaths. But you don't see are the nations that don't fit that narrative/dynamic. And we're told those nations are not industrialized, or not civilized?

You'd call Mexico a non-civilized nation? They have four times the per capita death by firearm rate as the US.

 

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1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

And when the people involved were profiled, many said it was wrong to do so, and judge people from their home countries harshly.

There were 19 terrorists in the 911 attack. They killed nearly 3000. That was not my point though.

Its worse with gun culture though. It's not just the minority who lose their minds and go on a shooting spree, gun nuts enable them by making guns easy to access and insisting people should have deadly weapons. I don't think the Muslims your referring to there approve of the Wahabbi faith and it's teachings. Killers and the average gun nut have the same Ideology just different targets. 

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Is it fair to blame the millions in their home nation for those killings? Should those millions have to suffer being bombed, and invaded, as a result?

Does it matter?

What happened? They got blamed. Some will always blame them. Some will see through that and understand the situation. The average Muslim doesn't say a Wahabbi adherent had the right to a murderous ideology either. You can't change that fair or not. 

In the instance of gun culture again it's worse because it's very preventable. There's been no real effort to change things. As you say, the average American will turn on such a suggestion regardless of if it is beneficial or not. There's no denouncing everyone being able to kill each other. 

The Muslims being blamed want the radical faiths revised. Gun culture proponents don't want revisions to suit to suit today's world.  

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

I'd disagree. Gun culture if passed on with respect for the gun, and basic training, makes it very safe. 99.99% of gun owners would likely agree.

And how do you tell who will snap?

Why should guns be a part of growing up at all? Why force that belief to live through new generations? What's the benefit?

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Kids in schools? Kids shouldn't have a gun without supervision, just as they shouldn't drive a car, or run a lawnmower, or chainsaw.

They should be able to go to school without the possibility of being shot. That's a basic right and one that IMHO well outweighs the perceived right to own a gun. 

Here, with regulations they can do that. Yet look at how another poster tried to paint that as temporary freedom. That's a clear example of gun culture gone wrong. 

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1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Problem being the US is very diverse. Non homogenous. Australia, though you might deny it, is near enough homogenous. Makes getting things done easier.

50% of the nation isn't going to believe anything coming from the other 50%. That's been done on purpose, to sell internet advertising, and gain clicks. Its a shame and IMHO needs to be fixed before any other societal problem will be fixed.

We have huge diversity but what your calling homogeneous is what I'm referring to with community. Yes. We do that better than you guys and that why regulation worked here. 

Yes it's a big problem. That adversity instead of diversity. It's potentially a vary dangerous mix with gun culture from my perspective. Removing weapons would be a very positive move but won't be successful without that community support. 

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

But to take guns from those most likely to be a mass shooter would require a mass turn in, and house to house searches, to find the millions of illegal guns. Which smacks of tyranny. Those with illegal guns aren't very likely to turn them in.

Yes, again it's up to the community. Searches wouldn't be required if America was more community minded. 

For sure illegals won't be turned in. Thing is if everyone pulls together, then illegals stick out like sore thumbs, giving them a limited shelf life and a rapidly increasing black market price. Change supply and demand will suffer. It's only a matter if time before they are extremely difficult and expensive to procure. I don't know if things can get worse, but with regulations they would definitely move forward. 

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1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

So does being an "industrialized" nation make one part of the "civilized" world. I keep seeing graphs and such online that show all the nations that have strict gun laws and how there is fewer deaths. But you don't see are the nations that don't fit that narrative/dynamic. And we're told those nations are not industrialized, or not civilized?

You'd call Mexico a non-civilized nation? They have four times the per capita death by firearm rate as the US.

 

Mexico run by cartels and with people leaving the country in droves constantly, what would you call that? Civilised? Or a long way to go? 

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7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I don't think people with muskets envisioned uzis. Change my mind. 

It was never about gun evolution, it was about power, tyranny, despotism.  America is a Corporation, and the bad guys have taken control of the office.

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3 hours ago, DieChecker said:

And when the people involved were profiled, many said it was wrong to do so, and judge people from their home countries harshly.

There were 19 terrorists in the 911 attack. They killed nearly 3000. That was not my point though.

Is it fair to blame the millions in their home nation for those killings? Should those millions have to suffer being bombed, and invaded, as a result?

I'd disagree. Gun culture if passed on with respect for the gun, and basic training, makes it very safe. 99.99% of gun owners would likely agree.

Kids in schools? Kids shouldn't have a gun without supervision, just as they shouldn't drive a car, or run a lawnmower, or chainsaw.

He's doing his usual.   But what about the Children?   People could use children to argue against anything.    Like my usual:

More children die in swimming pools than die of gun shots.   We should outlay swimming pools.   Children are dying!  

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6 hours ago, Gunn said:

Hey man, I'll tell ya the same thing I told the other gay men that approach me, when they tried to hit on me using that same gay code line with the same wording involving large guns and penis - dude, I'm straight as an arrow and I don't swing that way. Okay? But I'm flattered, honest, really I am, but naw man, just NO!

Well when you type the specific sentences (that I bolded ) in your posts below, I got to wonder if you're using any part of your brain -

 

 - because overall, the above tells me you don't think we need guns for anything and that we're chicken shitz because we don't even fight some of the dangerous wildlife with our bare hands using martial arts.Because you're coming off as some kind of deranged Internet tough guy that thinks he can face any encounter with your bare fists and feet. So i just like to see you try that martial arts crap with a few bears and wild hogs, without a gun. Seriously, if you could pull it off and prove me wrong as to why we don't need any guns to at least cull the wildlife, hell you'd be above Chuck Norris and Bruce Lee. You'd be a martial arts god if you could kick grisly bear ass without getting mauled to death. And I just wanted to see if a Internet tough guy like yourself could do it. That's all. Don't take it personally.

So homophobic too? Of course. No I am not gay but sure keep your homophobic insults comming. Don't bother me at all because that is all you have from your misarable pitty life.

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Anyone think it strange that the FBI admits to having prior information about all of these shooters instability, yet they never act? ALMOST like they are politically motivated to push the agenda of the corrupt officials who absolutely must disarm us before we can finally prove their corruption.. The second amendment never was about hunting as they claim, it was designed to overthrow the tyrannical. 

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1 hour ago, odas said:

So homophobic too? Of course. No I am not gay but sure keep your homophobic insults comming. Don't bother me at all because that is all you have from your misarable pitty life.

To be fair, you are the one who brought up his private parts in this thread.   Not sure why you felt the need to do that.

He shouldn't have responded though.

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4 minutes ago, Redacted File said:

Anyone think it strange that the FBI admits to having prior information about all of these shooters instability, yet they never act? ALMOST like they are politically motivated to push the agenda of the corrupt officials who absolutely must disarm us before we can finally prove their corruption.. The second amendment never was about hunting as they claim, it was designed to overthrow the tyrannical. 

You know when you make statements you need to back them up with a source, so please supply one???

 

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7 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

You do understand the vast majority of America doesnt have shootings right.  That most of the nations shootings, including mass shootings, occur in a handful of cities.  Why those cities have such a violence problem goes into various issues beyond the scope of this thread.  But your base assumption on gun violence in America is just wrong.

They expected people to remain the same which they have since the start of civilization and will be the same till civilization ends.

What are you willing to sacrifice for children's lives.  Would you give up free speech entirely if it saved a few children, maybe give up the entirety of your wealth if it saved a child or two which it almost certainly would, what about being euthanized to save some children, you surely use up far more resources then s child does and those could easily be redirected to saving children.  You really dont care that much about children's lives as this is just another attempt at a call to emotion which is all you seem capable of doing.

People dont change over time which is something you dont seem to get.  People are still motivated by the same things today as they were decades, centuries, and millennia ago and they will be still motivated by the same things far in the future.

Right to protect oneself and one's belongings and property is still rather relevant to weapons today.  

You walk around freely and enjoy life for as long as you are allowed which isnt true freedom, if you dont have the ability to defend what's yours you dont really have it.

Your comments above about mass shooting only occurring in a handful of states in completely inaccurate. Below is a link that shows all mass shooting from 1982 - 2021 and they are spread out across the entire United States. These shooting cover 4 victims or more, where no other violence is associated with them. Cavet, mass shooting do not include any of the following, Drive by shootings, Gang related Shootings, and Drug related shootings.

Mass Shootings Database, 1982 - 2021

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1b9o6uDO18sLxBqPwl_Gh9bnhW-ev_dABH83M5Vb5L8o/htmlview#gid=0

Map that shows mass shooting That have occurred Nationwide

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map/

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Your comments above about mass shooting only occurring in a handful of states in completely inaccurate. Below is a link that shows all mass shooting from 1982 - 2021 and they are spread out across the entire United States. These shooting cover 4 victims or more, where no other violence is associated with them. Cavet, mass shooting do not include any of the following, Drive by shootings, Gang related Shootings, and Drug related shootings.

Mass Shootings Database, 1982 - 2021

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1b9o6uDO18sLxBqPwl_Gh9bnhW-ev_dABH83M5Vb5L8o/htmlview#gid=0

Map that shows mass shooting That have occurred Nationwide

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map/

 

 

That's odd to leave all those out.   I actually think it should include all shootings except maybe suicides.  

In Chicago alone, 875 people were killed by gun violence last year.   

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23 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Very civilized. Truly the enlightened viewpoint. 

The thing is, he truly believes this and sees nothing wrong with it.  Blanket statements about tens of millions of people are, by their very nature, ignorance on display.

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On 4/17/2021 at 4:15 PM, spartan max2 said:

I feel like it would be similar to how people get pink slipped to pysch wards now when deemed a threat to themselves or others.

I'd have ZERO problems with arresting someone if their family or close acquaintances make a report to authorities that they are behaving irrationally or threatening others.  Lock them up for a specific period of time while a professional evaluates them and IF they are found mentally incompetent BY A JUDGE, then by all means, take their weapons and arrange for them to receive treatment until they no longer need it.

Most existing red flag laws are much more invasive against a persons rights than this, however.  All it takes is an accusation and these Nazis become door kickers.  There have already been several cases where they come in like the Cavalry, kick a door and if the person tries to resist they get DEAD... 

THAT isn't public safety. THAT is the work of Sturmtruppen and eventually it will lead this nation into REAL conflict.  

 

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10 minutes ago, and then said:

I'd have ZERO problems with arresting someone if their family or close acquaintances make a report to authorities that they are behaving irrationally or threatening others.  Lock them up for a specific period of time while a professional evaluates them and IF they are found mentally incompetent BY A JUDGE, then by all means, take their weapons and arrange for them to receive treatment until they no longer need it.

Most existing red flag laws are much more invasive against a persons rights than this, however.  All it takes is an accusation and these Nazis become door kickers.  There have already been several cases where they come in like the Cavalry, kick a door and if the person tries to resist they get DEAD... 

THAT isn't public safety. THAT is the work of Sturmtruppen and eventually it will lead this nation into REAL conflict.  

 

Yep.  An ex-girlfriend can really mess with a person if they wanted to.  

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