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How does America's gun violence cycle end?


Grim Reaper 6

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On 4/27/2021 at 3:29 AM, Dreamer screamer said:

What is strange is that freedom to have a gun doesn't mean everyone will just shoot everyone.  If this was the case, the govenrment wouldn't have a problem.

Doesn't mean it indeed, but some will do it and everyone will pay the price with restrictive gun laws...

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46 minutes ago, acute said:

The Rest Of the World all know the answer to this question, but people in the US don't like hearing it.

Here's a clue:

The Telegraph.

Coffee? Is that right?

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On 4/27/2021 at 5:41 AM, preacherman76 said:

The Dems think there is sauce, that’s why they sent an army of lawyers to AZ, to try and stop transparency. 

Did you complain when Republicans flooded the court system with unsubstantiated complaints? When a private company whose  top exec has already said the election was stolen  is conducting an audit in secret, I would hardly call that transparency.  Why don't we just let Facebook do it then?  I am sure they would be transparent and impartial.  

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7 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Coffee? Is that right?

The main problem is automatic and semi-automatic coffee machines. :yes:

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9 hours ago, acute said:

The main problem is automatic and semi-automatic coffee machines. :yes:

The only solution to a bad guy with a Breveille is a good guy with a De’Longhi.

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On 4/27/2021 at 3:33 PM, Manwon Lender said:

Please don't use the words God Given,

Please don’t pull your Leftist cancel culture with me.  I’ll use whatever words I please.  GOD-given is precisely the phrase to use.  That is what our Rights are referred to as.  Our Rights do not come from man.

 

that term is ludicrous and flys in the face of reality,

That term *IS* reality.

 

because if there was a god he would be laughing right now!!  

Not in your case.  I would imagine that he’d be very sad with such a waste.  But Jesus told us about Tares such as you.

 

The problems we are seeing have little to do with the immature or the un-knowledgeable,

It is precisely those things.  Not being able to deal with issues and not knowing enough in how to avoid them are key to the problem.  The Left is completely incapable in handling them.  Their only answer is centralized big government.  Always the wrong choice.

 

the problems Statistically are Proven to be a direct result of mental illness, whether it is drug induced or a chemical imbalance in people brains.

That is more or less correct, but it is basically just a symptom.  These are results from actions of immaturity and lack of knowledge (more specifically, Ignorance and Apathy).  One of my pet peeves is Ignorance and Apathy.  I am always railing against them and there has been just too much of that lately.  It’s usually always bankrupted leaders and ideologies that are behind it.

 

The knee jerk response you stated loud and clear above is a symptom of the problems not away to correct them.

Your comment is knee-jerk.  My comment is common sense.  That’s the difference between us.  I don’t think I offered a full solution, merely an observation.  Many of the details would need to be worked out.  You are not ready for a solution anyway.  As Tim Scott said that the Left does not want solutions, they want the situation.  The more chaos, the more control they try to seize.

 

Last the comments you made above, and the thoughts you expressed are exactly what has allowed things to go as far as they have and caused the terrible loss of life we are seeing right now Nationwide. 

Nope!  It is your lack of understanding (of human nature and natural rights and where they come from) that has allowed things to go as far as they have (Ignorance and Apathy).  And you’re not even done.  If you want to see loss of life, then give government control over the 2A.  The way that the Dyscognitive-in-chief is fermenting hate, something is ready to blow.  This may be what the Left wants but they are playing with fire.  This will bring blowback that will clean the slate with them.  And the Left will reap the whirlwind if they continue to mess with American culture and liberties.  Such a nation conceived in liberty can endure but it requires its patriots to step up to fight the tyranny of the Left.  We are rotting from the inside, yet we can put a stop to it.

 

Very very Sad!

That doesn’t begin to explain it.

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On 4/27/2021 at 3:38 PM, Manwon Lender said:

You killing me Dude, I just choked on my coffee!!:D Even the color is fitting because that is exactly how many members of the Extreme Right look today. They are holding their breath and clutching their guns tight because they are afraid the big bad US Government is coming to take them!!

Why are you singling out a very small group of gun owners?  I would imagine that there are more gun owners on the Left than there are on the extreme Right.  *ALL* gun owners and Bill of Rights supporters are concerned.  But that doesn’t mean we are holding our breath.  We’re just wondering what will set things off?  The government *IS* coming after them.  Have you not been following what St Bidet has been saying and what the Socialists that have been doing to usurp the government?  That is no CT.  You have to be a paid Maoist troll.  Remember Manuel Martinez or even Artur Pawlowski?  (I’m expanding this into a new thread)

 

If you don’t think the government isn’t coming for our guns, then in your opinion, what would you think it would look like if they did?

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On 4/27/2021 at 6:15 PM, psyche101 said:

Your god doesn't apply to me so

Yes, he does.  You just don’t recognize him.  Which is fine.

 

I don't recognise that alleged right. 

That’s why you don’t have it.  A Right requires personal responsibility and self-respect.  Only an American has enjoyed their full Rights.  Any place else does not know what it means.  Most think that Rights are granted by a government.  That’s ok, it’s understandable.

 

History shows gun culture is outdated and barbaric.

What history have you been watching?  History shows that an unarmed populace is at the mercy of the government.  Does not matter what the period is.  The government is not for the people, it is for the state.  The whole Constitution thing was about that truth to place limits on the government to protect our Rights.  The government has no Right to restrict our natural GOD-given Rights.  But that’s what the Left wants to do.  They want us to believe that they can.  They want a cultural revolution.  The Left also thinks that the Constitution is outdated.  That just shows how threatened by the Constitution they are.  We are not the government.  The government is our agent established to safeguard our rights, not dictate them.

 

That's why progressive nations have acted sensibly with regulations.

Have they acted sensibly, or have they stolen a few more Rights from the people?  In who’s point of view is that sensible?

 

The USA is well behind on that issue.

Government does not grant us Rights.  We still have most of our Rights intact.  I’d say we are way ahead of the game.  This basically boils down to which existence one wants.  A government that “takes care” of the people cradle to grave?  That it will regulate ones most intimate experiences?  Or the kind of human being that has full expression of their rights?  There have been numerous futurists that have given us glimpses into the cradle to grave utopia.  Are there people that actually prefer that?  Those are probably Ignorant or Apathetic or both.  It’s truly a mental disorder.

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1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

Government does not grant us Rights.

Sorry but your rights are not ‘God Given’.  Thomas Jefferson was quite clear on that.

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Questions of natural right are triable by their conformity with the moral sense & reason of man. Those who write treatises of natural law, can only declare what their own moral sense & reason dictate in the several cases they state.

It is government that defines your rights.  Take for example the myriad conventions of the UN, in particular the UN Convention for the rights of the child.  These are rights asserted by millions worldwide, the US government is not a signatory however and so these rights are unenforceable.  If rights are fundamentally god given, how is the government able to pick and choose the rights.

We are all in the coming decades going to see the rights we enjoy eroding.  It’s got nothing to do with leftist politics it’s all to do with population density and one persons rights infringing on another’s.

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34 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

Sorry but your rights are not ‘God Given’.  Thomas Jefferson was quite clear on that.

It is government that defines your rights.  Take for example the myriad conventions of the UN, in particular the UN Convention for the rights of the child.  These are rights asserted by millions worldwide, the US government is not a signatory however and so these rights are unenforceable.  If rights are fundamentally god given, how is the government able to pick and choose the rights.

We are all in the coming decades going to see the rights we enjoy eroding.  It’s got nothing to do with leftist politics it’s all to do with population density and one persons rights infringing on another’s.

I liked the George Carlin explanation of rights.  It's a bit profane due to his speaking style so I can't link it but it is spot on. 

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America was founded on, expanded on, and defended by  Gun Violence.   As long as guns and bombs are upheld as 'solutions' ...we will all suffer ,and or reap, the consequences of that mindset.   

If mankind survives long enough, we will learn how to live without them...and we will rise above that primitive level of violent behavior.

the shot heard round the world !  :nw:

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3 hours ago, lightly said:

America was founded on, expanded on, and defended by  Gun Violence.   As long as guns and bombs are upheld as 'solutions' ...we will all suffer ,and or reap, the consequences of that mindset.   

If mankind survives long enough, we will learn how to live without them...and we will rise above that primitive level of violent behavior.

the shot heard round the world !  :nw:

We are always going to need guns and the biggest f’ing bombs money can buy.  Preferably bigger than the other guy and more of them.

Humans are tribal, that’s not going to change any time soon.  In some respects I am a bit of a lefty, but I agree that on governmental level defence spending should be paramount.

What makes me laugh, and not in a good way is the tyranny bit as an excuse for firearm ownership. The US claims the largest and most advanced fighting force in the world, it is designed to be able to sustain 2 separate fronts and the industry to start producing fresh materiel en masse to support its forces.  Can anyone here seriously argue that if the government wanted to start getting all ‘tyrannical’ an unorganised armed civilian uprising would have any sort of chance against a military that no one else in the world would risk going up against?

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46 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

 

What makes me laugh, and not in a good way is the tyranny bit as an excuse for firearm ownership. The US claims the largest and most advanced fighting force in the world, it is designed to be able to sustain 2 separate fronts and the industry to start producing fresh materiel en masse to support its forces.  Can anyone here seriously argue that if the government wanted to start getting all ‘tyrannical’ an unorganised armed civilian uprising would have any sort of chance against a military that no one else in the world would risk going up against?

now that is what makes me laugh, good one, lol

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4 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Why are you singling out a very small group of gun owners?  I would imagine that there are more gun owners on the Left than there are on the extreme Right.  *ALL* gun owners and Bill of Rights supporters are concerned. 

Why am I singling out the Mentally unbalanced, because they are the individuals who are carrying out the Mass Shootings. In addition they are White Males who are extreme right in their political leanings and who are disenfranchised members of our society who blame their lot in life on minorities, and immigrants who they blame for their lot in life. They feel they are entitled because they were born in America, than those who have worked hard through education to get where they are. 

Statistics on number of mass shooting between 1982-2021 concerning mentally ill. :• U.S. mass shootings, by prior signs of shooter's mental health issues 2021 | Statista

Mass shooting by state: • Mass shootings in the U.S. by state 1982-2021 | Statista

There have been a hundred and 123 mass shooting in the US, where at least 3 or more people were killed between 1982-2021. During that time there have been 952 Americans killed and 1,315 wounded. The link breaks this down by date and location: Mass Shootings in the US: See 37 Years in One Chart | Time

Statistics who carries out the Mass Shooting from 1982-2021: White males carried out 66% of all mass shooting during this time frame: • Mass shootings by shooter’s race in the U.S. 2021 | Statista

Statistics based upon age 1982-2021: Average ages based upon statistics - Males 18 years old to 35 years old. :White Men Have Committed More Mass Shootings than Any Other Group (newsweek.com)

Why White Males carry out mass shooting "There's a feeling of entitlement that white men have that black men don't," criminologist James Alan Fox told The Washington Post in 2012. "They often complain that their job was taken by blacks or Mexicans or Jews. They feel that a well-paid job is their birthright. It's a blow to their psyche when they lose that. . . . If you're a member of a group that hasn't historically experienced unemployment, there's a far greater stigma to [losing a job] than those who have. : White Men Have Committed More Mass Shootings than Any Other Group (newsweek.com) Politifact factcheck: PolitiFact | Are white males responsible for more mass shootings than any other group?

Political affiliation of Mass Shooters in America between 1982-2021: There is no demographics that clearly outlines without bias commits the largest percentage of Mass Shootings in America. However, again the fact is constant:

While perpetrators of mass violence can be categorized with respect to motivation, the characteristics of individual perpetrators cut across demographic, sociologic, cultural and occupational groups. The characteristics that most frequently occur are males, often hopeless and harboring grievances that are frequently related to work, school, finances or interpersonal relationships; feeling victimized and sympatizing with others who they perceive to be similarly mistreated; indifference to life; and often subsequently dying by suicide. They frequently plan and prepare for their attack and often share information about the attack with others, though often not with the intended victims.

Incidents of mass violence — especially those that appear to be senseless, random acts directed at strangers in public places — are so terrifying and traumatic that the community responds defensively and demands an explanation. After such events, political leaders often invoke mental illness as the reason for mass violence, a narrative that resonates with the widespread public belief that mentally ill individuals in general pose a danger to others. Since it is difficult to imagine that a mentally healthy person would deliberately kill multiple strangers, it is commonly assumed that all perpetrators of mass violence must be mentally ill. f job opportun

The American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DMS-5), provides a catalog of diverse brain-related health conditions that impair a person’s normal ability to reason and perceive reality, regulate mood, formulate and carry out plans and decisions, adapt to stress, behave and relate to others in socially appropriate ways, experience empathy, modulate consumption and refrain from intentional self-injury — or various combinations of such problems. 

While there is increasing demand to identify potential perpetrators of violence and develop preventive measures, there has been insufficient research on the root causes of the problem or resources to address them. Such causes include social alienation and social problems (including deficiencies in the educational system, poverty, discrimination, the lack of job opportunities, etc.), as well as the lack of quality and comprehensive mental health care.

esn’t mean we are holding our breath.  We’re just wondering what will set things off?  The government *IS* coming after them.  Have you not been following what St Bidet has been saying and what the Socialists that have been doing to usurp the government?  That is no CT.  You have to be a paid Maoist troll.  Remember Manuel Martinez or even Artur Pawlowski?  (I’m expanding this into a new thread)

You opinions about the right / left thing are Ludacris and nothing but virtual singling. Calling me a communist does support your cause it only makes you personally look foolish. :lol: But this is your typical way of handling any situation where you are given facts that dispute your grandiose personal opinion, sad very sad!!:(

If you don’t think the government isn’t coming for our guns, then in your opinion, what would you think it would look like if they did?

They would knock on your door because of comments posted on Chat Forums and take a persons gun by force if necessary. But, there are signs of that occurring, and your fear doesnt justify your comments.

 

 

4 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Yes, he does.  You just don’t recognize him.  Which is fine.

That’s why you don’t have it.  A Right requires personal responsibility and self-respect.  Only an American has enjoyed their full Rights.  Any place else does not know what it means.  Most think that Rights are granted by a government.  That’s ok, it’s understandable.

What history have you been watching?  History shows that an unarmed populace is at the mercy of the government.  Does not matter what the period is.  The government is not for the people, it is for the state.  The whole Constitution thing was about that truth to place limits on the government to protect our Rights.  The government has no Right to restrict our natural GOD-given Rights.  But that’s what the Left wants to do.  They want us to believe that they can.  They want a cultural revolution.  The Left also thinks that the Constitution is outdated.  That just shows how threatened by the Constitution they are.  We are not the government.  The government is our agent established to safeguard our rights, not dictate them.

Again Your God has nothing to do with this, your comments are just another form of virtual signaling!:lol: You keep bring up the Constitution, however, by comments you are not as familiar with as you claim to be. Yes the government is an agent that was established to safe guard our rights, and to protect the lives of the citizens that are Governed. Buy excepting money from the Gun Lobbyists the rights of Americans have been infringed upon and have also caused a needless loss of life. The thing that is giving the anti-gun lobby power is the mass shooting that plague American, and because all the Politicians on both sides of the fence have overlooked this problem for so many years it has now reached a point where something must be done. The American people are demanding it, and those that are far out number those who continue to turn a blind eye to the problem. So continue to live in sad Left and Right world and continue to overlook the reality of the situation, what you do is certainly not important to me, it your life live it.:)

Have they acted sensibly, or have they stolen a few more Rights from the people?  In who’s point of view is that sensible?

Government does not grant us Rights.  We still have most of our Rights intact.  I’d say we are way ahead of the game.  This basically boils down to which existence one wants.  A government that “takes care” of the people cradle to grave?  That it will regulate ones most intimate experiences?  Or the kind of human being that has full expression of their rights?  There have been numerous futurists that have given us glimpses into the cradle to grave utopia.  Are there people that actually prefer that?  Those are probably Ignorant or Apathetic or both.  It’s truly a mental disorder.

Mental disorders can also be political in nature and certainly ignorance and apathy certainly do play a major role in how people relate to their leaders, this has been very obvious over the past 4 years, and it still continues today.

 

 

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10 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Yes, he does.  You just don’t recognize him.  Which is fine.

No he her or it most certainly does not. Your god can bite me. I don't need your mental crutch, nor do I recognise any validity when you invoke your imaginary friend. 

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That’s why you don’t have it. 

No, that doesn't even make sense. 

We don't convince ourselves that we need to retain barbaric ways and we enacted that. Australia is way in font of the US on that issue. We co-operate where America is divided.

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A Right requires personal responsibility and self-respect.  Only an American has enjoyed their full Rights. 

Not at all. Only America has failed in that respect and American bystanders and children pay the price. I don't call that freedom. You are held to ransom by middle America. 

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Any place else does not know what it means.  Most think that Rights are granted by a government.  That’s ok, it’s understandable.

You don't understand rights by the sound of it. 

You do understand that governments are voted in by the people? And impeached by them and held accountable by them? 

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What history have you been watching? 

Reading mostly thanks. 

Modern history looking back over the past that America is stuck in. When redcoats become popular again your claims might be considered less than hysterical. 

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History shows that an unarmed populace is at the mercy of the government.  Does not matter what the period is. 

Yes it does matter what the time period is. Rather silly of you to suggest otherwise. It's simply egotistical to think in this day and age that it would make any difference at all.

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The government is not for the people, it is for the state. 

Your not really adept at putting two and two together are you? 

Where do the people have to live? The state. We have to choose the government wisely to make sure our state is a place we want to live. 

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The whole Constitution thing was about that truth to place limits on the government to protect our Rights.  The government has no Right to restrict our natural GOD-given Rights.

Yes it does 

Simply put the government is real. The god idea is not. I don't vote for God's so I don't and will not recognise any such false proclamation. I reject and do not recognise your god, or any other gods words. 

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  But that’s what the Left wants to do.  They want us to believe that they can.  They want a cultural revolution.  The Left also thinks that the Constitution is outdated.  That just shows how threatened by the Constitution they are.  We are not the government.  The government is our agent established to safeguard our rights, not dictate them.

Recognising am outdated document isn't fear. Where do you get such an imaginative delusion from? Laws are repealed all the time not out of fear bit redundancy. The American Constitution is outdated and redundant.

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Have they acted sensibly, or have they stolen a few more Rights from the people?  In who’s point of view is that sensible?

Of course they have acted sensibly and it has resulted in safer communities. Here in Australia we have more freedom right now than America may ever know. We have the freedom to choose and steer our government which seem to be a concept very foreign to Americans. 

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Government does not grant us Rights.  We still have most of our Rights intact.  I’d say we are way ahead of the game.  This basically boils down to which existence one wants.  A government that “takes care” of the people cradle to grave?  That it will regulate ones most intimate experiences?  Or the kind of human being that has full expression of their rights? 

You're way behind

Half your country is held to ransom by the other half. Because of your individualistic nature, you have no community spirit. Because of that you can not know true freedom. 

Your presidents are just pandering to one half or another continuing to divide your nation. You all like to blame the media and propoganda but it's you lot that disseminate and accept that disjointed arrangement. And that why America hasn't been the greatest country in the planet for some time. It's behind the times. 

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There have been numerous futurists that have given us glimpses into the cradle to grave utopia.  Are there people that actually prefer that?  Those are probably Ignorant or Apathetic or both.  It’s truly a mental disorder.

So what? Opinions vary. But you already have an imaginary friend so I guess an imaginary future is your sort of thing. 

I'm gonna laugh if you quote Orwell too. 

 

If you have trouble reading glasses might be a good idea. Save space with your silly fonts.

Edited by psyche101
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1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

No he her or it most certainly does not. Your god can bite me. I don't need your mental crutch, nor do I recognise any validity when you invoke your imaginary friend. 

No, that doesn't even make sense. 

We don't convince ourselves that we need to retain barbaric ways and we enacted that. Australia is way in font of the US on that issue. We co-operate where America is divided.

Not at all. Only America has failed in that respect and American bystanders and children pay the price. I don't call that freedom. You are held to ransom by middle America. 

You don't understand rights by the sound of it. 

You do understand that governments are voted in by the people? And impeached by them and held accountable by them? 

Reading mostly thanks. 

Modern history looking back over the past that America is stuck in. When redcoats become popular again your claims might be considered less than hysterical. 

Yes it does matter what the time period is. Rather silly of you to suggest otherwise. It's simply egotistical to think in this day and age that it would make any difference at all.

Your not really adept at putting two and two together are you? 

Where do the people have to live? The state. We have to choose the government wisely to make sure our state is a place we want to live. 

Yes it does 

Simply put the government is real. The god idea is not. I don't vote for God's so I don't and will not recognise any such false proclamation. I reject and do not recognise your god, or any other gods words. 

Recognising am outdated document isn't fear. Where do you get such an imaginative delusion from? Laws are repealed all the time not out of fear bit redundancy. The American Constitution is outdated and redundant.

Of course they have acted sensibly and it has resulted in safer communities. Here in Australia we have more freedom right now than America may ever know. We have the freedom to choose and steer our government which seem to be a concept very foreign to Americans. 

You're way behind

Half your country is held to ransom by the other half. Because of your individualistic nature, you have no community spirit. Because of that you can not know true freedom. 

Your presidents are just pandering to one half or another continuing to divide your nation. You all like to blame the media and propoganda but it's you lot that disseminate and accept that disjointed arrangement. And that why America hasn't been the greatest country in the planet for some time. It's behind the times. 

So what? Opinions vary. But you already have an imaginary friend so I guess an imaginary future is your sort of thing. 

I'm gonna laugh if you quote Orwell too. 

 

If you have trouble reading glasses might be a good idea. Save space with your silly fonts.

Whether it's God or the bomb
It's just the same
It's only fear under another name

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7 hours ago, Grey Area said:

We are always going to need guns and the biggest f’ing bombs money can buy.  Preferably bigger than the other guy and more of them.

Humans are tribal, that’s not going to change any time soon.  In some respects I am a bit of a lefty, but I agree that on governmental level defence spending should be paramount.

What makes me laugh, and not in a good way is the tyranny bit as an excuse for firearm ownership. The US claims the largest and most advanced fighting force in the world, it is designed to be able to sustain 2 separate fronts and the industry to start producing fresh materiel en masse to support its forces.  Can anyone here seriously argue that if the government wanted to start getting all ‘tyrannical’ an unorganised armed civilian uprising would have any sort of chance against a military that no one else in the world would risk going up against?

Sure, because those civilians are from the same TRIBE as the soldiers working in the military. 

The civilians don't have to win a straight up war, they merely have to hold out till the ranks of soldiers start to get sick of it.

Attacking foreign "bad guys" that don't speak your language, and have an alien culture, is one thing, bombing your own friends and family is another bowl of soup altogether.

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On 4/27/2021 at 5:30 PM, psyche101 said:

I know the SFF had been trying but the support from voters is overwhelming. I am of the understanding that about 85% of people support maintaining or tightening gun laws. It would surely be political suicide to ignore that. 

That's true, and about 90% also believe everyone should have the right to own a weapon.

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13 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Please don’t pull your Leftist cancel culture with me.  I’ll use whatever words I please.  GOD-given is precisely the phrase to use.  That is what our Rights are referred to as.  Our Rights do not come from man.

You are right in that our Rights are not given to us. They are ours by simply existing. The government does set some limits though. We can scream fire in a movie theater. We can't own a tomahawk missile.

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights dont actually mention God. They don't innumerable, that I know of, where the rights came from. They simply acknowledge they exist. 

God doesn't care about "rights". God wants us to live a Christ like life of love, and serving others. He doesn't care if you own a gun or not, or can say what you wish, or that you can gather together.

I do wonder where the term " God given...", came from?

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4 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

You are right in that our Rights are not given to us. They are ours by simply existing. The government does set some limits though. We can scream fire in a movie theater. We can't own a tomahawk missile.

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights dont actually mention God. They don't innumerable, that I know of, where the rights came from. They simply acknowledge they exist. 

Which makes me ask-  If it is something that is ours because we exist, then why do other people that exist in this world not have this right or even recognize it as a right to be had?  How can something that is yours by existing be taken away?  

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15 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Which makes me ask-  If it is something that is ours because we exist, then why do other people that exist in this world not have this right or even recognize it as a right to be had?  How can something that is yours by existing be taken away?  

When the people let the government take it away. People can abdicate their rights, but their Natural rights never change.

I'd say what is a Natural Right is mainly cultural. Culture is what a community believes. And what rights people have fits under that umbrella. Wars have been fought to offer "Rights" to people who didn't want them, due to cultural differences.

I think that if your nation believes in specific rights, it then DOES mean those rights should apply to everyone everywhere. So a person in the US generally does believe everyone should (does?) have the right to chose their religion and practice free speech, and the right to vote. 

The UN punishes nations that violate Human Rights. I'll see what their definition is.

https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/human-rights#:~:text=Human rights are rights inherent,and education%2C and many more.

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What Are Human Rights?
Human rights are rights inherent to all human beings, regardless of race, sex, nationality, ethnicity, language, religion, or any other status. Human rights include the right to life and liberty, freedom from slavery and torture, freedom of opinion and expression, the right to work and education, and many more.  Everyone is entitled to these rights, without discrimination.

The UN Declaration of Human Rights doesn't include self-defence in any way, as far as I see.

That's a American Right.

Edited by DieChecker
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4 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

When the people let the government take it away. People can abdicate their rights, but their Natural rights never change.

I'd say what is a Natural Right is mainly cultural. Culture is what a community believes. And what rights people have fits under that umbrella. Wars have been fought to offer "Rights" to people who didn't want them, due to cultural differences.

I think that if your nation believes in specific rights, it then DOES mean those rights should apply to everyone everywhere. So a person in the US generally does believe everyone should (does?) have the right to chose their religion and practice free speech, and the right to vote. 

The UN punishes nations that violate Human Rights. I'll see what their definition is.

So what happens when our culture evolves away from the desire to possess guns or just gets disgusted with the all the needless deaths associated with them?  Does it cease to become a right?  I personally think gun ownership should be a privilege for those who demonstrate a sound mind and proper training.  Having it as a right means that even our mentally ill are deserving of it. 

Edited by Gromdor
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11 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

So what happens when our culture evolves away from the desire to possess guns or just gets disgusted with the all the needless deaths associated with them?  Does it cease to become a right? 

I'd have to say Yes. It would be superceded by everyone agreeing it wasnt needed anymore.

Hopefully we evolve away from suicide, which is the main cause of shooting deaths. 

Hopefully we get past crime altogether also. Where robbery, burglary, murder, rape, selling deadly drugs.... all are not practiced anymore.

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I personally think gun ownership should be a privilege for those who demonstrate a sound mind and proper training.  Having it as a right means that even our mentally ill are deserving of it.

Ahh. But thats where regulation comes in. All rights are regulated. You don't get freedom of religion to found a Strangler Cult, or to create a Polygamist fantasy. Just as you can't have a Tomahawk Missile. Thus felons (in many places), children (in most places), and the mentally unsound, are deemed too dangerous to be allowed to own firearms.

Edited by DieChecker
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1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Sure, because those civilians are from the same TRIBE as the soldiers working in the military. 

The civilians don't have to win a straight up war, they merely have to hold out till the ranks of soldiers start to get sick of it.

Attacking foreign "bad guys" that don't speak your language, and have an alien culture, is one thing, bombing your own friends and family is another bowl of soup altogether.

I don't know why Americans keep insisting it would be hand to hand combat. Seems more a romantic than likely idea to me. If your going to overthrow America, I just can't see that happening. 

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1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

That's true, and about 90% also believe everyone should have the right to own a weapon.

Where are you getting that figure from?

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