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Manwon Lender

'Elusive' herd immunity likely won't stop COVID-19 in US but vaccines can control it, experts say

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Manwon Lender

But even as more than half of Americans have received at least one dose of vaccine and many others are protected by recent infections, health experts are moving away from the idea of reaching some magic number for herd immunity.What Dr. Fauci doesn't explicitly state, but others do, is that with about a quarter of Americans saying they might not want to be immunized, herd immunity is simply not an attainable goal.    

 

 

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and then

There is so much confused crap coming from these "experts" that the idea they understand it at all is laughable.  We have about as much chance of herd immunity for this as we do the seasonal influenza.  

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Timothy
6 minutes ago, and then said:

There is so much confused crap coming from these "experts" that the idea they understand it at all is laughable.  We have about as much chance of herd immunity for this as we do the seasonal influenza.  

Might be worth people wearing face masks for the moment then...

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spartan max2
8 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Might be worth people wearing face masks for the moment then...

You mean for the the rest of your life?

If herd immunity isn't possible, even with high vaccination rates. Than what youre effectively saying is to wear a mask for the rest of your life.

 

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Desertrat56
2 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

You mean for the the rest of your life?

If herd immunity isn't possible, even with high vaccination rates. Than what youre effectively saying is to wear a mask for the rest of your life.

 

No, probably for the  next year, but eventually it will be like the flu.  A lot of people have never had a flu shot and herd immunity is not possible for any virus, like the flu or other corona virus, that mutates constantly.   That is the part people keep misunderstanding or forgetting, the mutations make it impossible for true "herd immunity".    So if you feel better having a vaccine every year get it, just like the flu and pneumonia shots, which are annual.  And if you don't want the vaccine just be careful and stay away from everyone when you feel ill, no matter what the symptoms.

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toast

There will be no herd immunity by infection but by vaccination only. As a consequence, the antivaxxers will get the bill for their orders resulting into an increase in the average global IQ by their numerical reduction. Hell, the evolution is damn smart. I like it.

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third_eye

Current vaccination does not mean immunization... 

Quote
26 Mar 2021 — Even vaccinated individuals can be infected with COVID-19. But they usually only have mild symptoms, as the ...
 
10 Mar 2021 — Natural infections do not seem to protect against reinfection, yet vaccines remain to be seen. While Faria found  ...
 
9 Apr 2021 — What we know (and don't know) about natural immunity to COVID-19 · Yes, you should still get vaccinated even if you' ve ...

~

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Desertrat56
13 minutes ago, toast said:

There will be no herd immunity by infection but by vaccination only. As a consequence, the antivaxxers will get the bill for their orders resulting into an increase in the average global IQ by their numerical reduction. Hell, the evolution is damn smart. I like it.

If that were true influenza would have already done that and I think we have evidence that intelligence is diminishing, not increasing.

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spartan max2
33 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

No, probably for the  next year, but eventually it will be like the flu.  A lot of people have never had a flu shot and herd immunity is not possible for any virus, like the flu or other corona virus, that mutates constantly.   That is the part people keep misunderstanding or forgetting, the mutations make it impossible for true "herd immunity".    So if you feel better having a vaccine every year get it, just like the flu and pneumonia shots, which are annual.  And if you don't want the vaccine just be careful and stay away from everyone when you feel ill, no matter what the symptoms.

I think we are mostly saying the same thing.

I'm fine with wearing a mask for now, while the world is rolling out vaccines.

But assuming the virus forever mutates and dosen't go away than at some point I'm going to stop wearing the mask. I don't like wearing it at all lol.

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spartan max2
11 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Current vaccination does not mean immunization... 

~

It's true for all vaccines that a minority of people will still get sick.

That's why no vaccine is said to be 100% effective.

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Desertrat56
1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

I think we are mostly saying the same thing.

I'm fine with wearing a mask for now, while the world is rolling out vaccines.

But assuming the virus forever mutates and dosen't go away than at some point I'm going to stop wearing the mask. I don't like wearing it at all lol.

I plan on wearing a mask in public at least until there is enough data to determine whether the vaccine is useful or not.   If people have to get vaccinated every 6 months because of the rapid mutations then we just as well keep wearing the masks.

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Desertrat56
3 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

It's true for all vaccines that a minority of people will still get sick.

That's why no vaccine is said to be 100% effective.

If you get vaccinated for the flu and it keeps you healthy but the next year you get vaccinated and encounter a strain of flu that is not accounted for in the vaccine you will get sick, or your immune system will keep you from getting sick whether the vaccine is for the right strain or not.  The key is to keep your immune system as strong as possible, healthy habits go a lot further than the vaccine can.   I am not denying we need the vaccine I am just saying there is more to it and you can never be dependent on a vaccine for virus' that mutate.

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spartan max2
6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

I plan on wearing a mask in public at least until there is enough data to determine whether the vaccine is useful or not.   If people have to get vaccinated every 6 months because of the rapid mutations then we just as well keep wearing the masks.

This is where I disagree and where alot of people probably disagree.

I'm not wearing a mask for the next 5,10,15 years.

If it ends up being something that is around every year than that's just how it is. Life has risk involved. I'm not going to endlessly cover my face everytime I walk in a building.

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Desertrat56
2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

This is where I disagree and where alot of people probably disagree.

I'm not wearing a mask for the next 5,10,15 years.

If it ends up being something that is around every year than that's just how it is. Life has risk involved. I'm not going to endlessly cover my face everytime I walk in a building.

The thing I have been thinking about concerning the mask is that pollution is getting worse and more and more people have respiratory issues due to that, so it might not be so bad to always wear a mask for multiple reasons.  But it is not required so you are right.

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spartan max2
Just now, Desertrat56 said:

The thing I have been thinking about concerning the mask is that pollution is getting worse and more and more people have respiratory issues due to that, so it might not be so bad to always wear a mask for multiple reasons.  But it is not required so you are right.

It is commonly done in alot of asian nations for that reason. Pollution.

I'm not going to hold it against anyone who continues to wear a mask, but I will eventually stop myself.

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Xeno-Fish

I've stopped wearing my mask. Just don't care anymore. 

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Princess Serenity
38 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

I've stopped wearing my mask. Just don't care anymore. 

Wish I could do that. But I'll get fired if I don't. ): I hate wearing them!! 

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and then
4 hours ago, Timothy said:

Might be worth people wearing face masks for the moment then...

I do.  When I'm in public I continue to wear them NOT because I believe they are as effective as they are touted to be but out of simple respect for my neighbors and their peace of mind.  My state dropped the mandate just after Easter and half or more of the people I see in public have stopped wearing them.  It's kind of a hit or miss proposition based on which retail store a person shops in.  This is also allergy season and I sneeze and cough a bit and have no problem wearing the face diaper to keep others from cringing around me ;)  I've been fortunate not to encounter any hard core mask Nazis and I'm glad of that.  

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Desertrat56
2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Israel got rid of their mask mandate two days ago.  But they achieved an 80% vaccine rate: Israel drops outdoor mask mandate with 80% of adults vaccinated | Fox News

I personally think we in the US are doomed to wear masks for many more months to come  

Any who are concerned about getting the virus will.   Ted Nugent didn't.

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Katniss
2 hours ago, and then said:

This is also allergy season and I sneeze and cough a bit and have no problem wearing the face diaper to keep others from cringing around me ;)  I've been fortunate not to encounter any hard core mask Nazis and I'm glad of that.  

That's also a legit reason too. I get allergies really bad this time of year. And that's exactly what I would tell any aggressive mask Nazi. It's allergies! :yes:

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Desertrat56
8 minutes ago, Katniss said:

That's also a legit reason too. I get allergies really bad this time of year. And that's exactly what I would tell any aggressive mask Nazi. It's allergies! :yes:

I have my worst allergies in the fall.  In my area Juniper blooms are the most common cause of respiratory allergies but I am more allergic to what ever happens in the fall.    I think wearing a mask any time you have respiratory issues not only keeps others from getting what you might have, but keeps you from breathing in the stuff that causes your allergies or issues.   

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Manwon Lender
8 hours ago, and then said:

There is so much confused crap coming from these "experts" that the idea they understand it at all is laughable.  We have about as much chance of herd immunity for this as we do the seasonal influenza.  

Well there is a great deal of confusing information out there, I agree. But, a very big percentage of the misinformation isn't actually come from the experts, it's coming from idiots who claim to be experts. Any situation that gets worldwide attention draws the wack jobs that want their name in the lime light, and there is always some person or group that will listen because the blind always lead the blind.

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Manwon Lender
2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Israel got rid of their mask mandate two days ago.  But they achieved an 80% vaccine rate: Israel drops outdoor mask mandate with 80% of adults vaccinated | Fox News

I personally think we in the US are doomed to wear masks for many more months to come  

 

8 hours ago, Timothy said:

Might be worth people wearing face masks for the moment then...

Hey Tim, I agree with you. But, the reason we are at the point we are right now is because in the early days of this Pandemic not enough was done. The reason the US has so. many problems right now, and will never most likely reach Herd immunity is because of the foolish nonsense that was pushed by our Government during 2020. Do to that lack of action and a great deal of misinformation and out right lies, we are trying to play catch up, and I don't think it is possible any longer. The vaccine is the only route to Herd immunity now, but with the antivacers and those convince the vaccine is dangerous we will never reach the 70+% needed for Herd immunity. 

Now personally I could careless what others do, I all comes down to what we do for ourselves. If other want to risk the lives of their families and them self so be it and I wish them well.

Peace

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spartan max2
4 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The vaccine is the only route to Herd immunity now, but with the antivacers and those convince the vaccine is dangerous we will never reach the 70+% needed for Herd immunity. 

The most recent poll has only 21% of americans saying they will never get the vaccine.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/18/988574518/more-than-half-of-u-s-adults-have-gotten-at-least-one-covid-19-vaccine-dose

(The poll pdf link is within that link)

So close to 80% seems plausable to me.

 

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