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Scholar4Truth

Russian Troops withdraw in Ukraine Return to Base

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Scholar4Truth
Manwon Lender
8 hours ago, Scholar4Truth said:

Great thread, thanks for bringing this subject up, so Putin blinked what coward!!!!!:tu:

With Trump out of the picture he grip is totally gone now!!!!!:tu:

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NE1
5 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Great thread, thanks for bringing this subject up, so Putin blinked what coward!!!!!:tu:

With Trump out of the picture he grip is totally gone now!!!!!:tu:

Agreed Manwon, once Putin saw how quick Ukraine and NATO were to react, he bottled it, merely sabre rattling after that. 

Not sure what you mean with regards to the Trump comment but I’m not really bothered about the bloke either way. 

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keithisco
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, NE1 said:

Agreed Manwon, once Putin saw how quick Ukraine and NATO were to react, he bottled it, merely sabre rattling after that. 

Not sure what you mean with regards to the Trump comment but I’m not really bothered about the bloke either way. 

Actually, all he did was what he said the build-up was for - Military Exercises. Where does the "Coward" comment come from:whistle:

I guess you were really hoping for conflict

Edited by keithisco
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Helen of Annoy
5 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Great thread, thanks for bringing this subject up, so Putin blinked what coward!!!!!:tu:

With Trump out of the picture he grip is totally gone now!!!!!:tu:

Trump being gone is the most important reason why Putin is frothing :yes:

Putin's attempt to destroy the US from within has failed and it also makes his other operations, such as Brexit, more than likely to fail. 

Which is why there're so many "peacenik" Brexiters defending their beloved Putin and his expansionist aggression. 

 

The latest proclaimed Russian troops movements do cast loser light at Putin, but they are not to be taken seriously. They are not the sign of sudden turn away from Russian expansionist politics, they're probably the trap: Russians might claim they withdrew and Ukraine attacked their undefended positions. 

They've been screeching about Ukrainian "provocations" since they started the aggression on Ukraine. 

That being said, it's also likely someone told Putin the West will sanction him back to stone age. No nukes needed if finances are nuked and kicking Russia out of international financial system is how it's easily done :) 

 

By the way, I had to acknowledge a warning before I could post this. Apparently, a whole pack of Putin's poodles was scared of me alone :lol:  

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NE1
1 hour ago, keithisco said:

Actually, all he did was what he said the build-up was for - Military Exercises. Where does the "Coward" comment come from:whistle:

I guess you were really hoping for conflict

I wasn’t hoping for a conflict at all. 

Do you not feel there was any intent or provocation at all on the side of Russia to escalate it further? 

 

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keithisco
9 minutes ago, NE1 said:

I wasn’t hoping for a conflict at all. 

Do you not feel there was any intent or provocation at all on the side of Russia to escalate it further? 

 

Possibly "Testing the water", or to see how quickly they could deploy a large force

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Manwon Lender
4 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Trump being gone is the most important reason why Putin is frothing :yes:

Putin's attempt to destroy the US from within has failed and it also makes his other operations, such as Brexit, more than likely to fail. 

Which is why there're so many "peacenik" Brexiters defending their beloved Putin and his expansionist aggression. 

 

The latest proclaimed Russian troops movements do cast loser light at Putin, but they are not to be taken seriously. They are not the sign of sudden turn away from Russian expansionist politics, they're probably the trap: Russians might claim they withdrew and Ukraine attacked their undefended positions. 

They've been screeching about Ukrainian "provocations" since they started the aggression on Ukraine. 

That being said, it's also likely someone told Putin the West will sanction him back to stone age. No nukes needed if finances are nuked and kicking Russia out of international financial system is how it's easily done :) 

 

By the way, I had to acknowledge a warning before I could post this. Apparently, a whole pack of Putin's poodles was scared of me alone :lol:  

It's so surprising to me that so many of my fellow Americans would rather see Putin disgrace the United States, than to see what happened here today. Since the tension began, I started a number of threads to keep the situation up to date. While most here realize that Russia and Putin need to be put in their place, their are a select group who have cheered Putin efforts. They also gleefully anticipated that Biden would end up embarrassed because of his support for the Ukraine, which I never believed for a second, and the reason they did this was because they would rather see Putin win than see President Biden victorious. Putin is claiming that this was training exercise in a useless attempt to save face. In reality in was a major miscalculation on his part, he really believed that he would be able to walk into the Ukraine unopposed. He never thought that with the regained support of the United States( President Biden ) that NATO and the EU would draw a line in the sand and dare the idiot to cross it, and that scared the crap out him.

I think your aware of the fact that President Trump intentionally attempted to destroy the unity of NATO Nations and hamstringed NATO. I also think that this entire situation was part of a plan that involved the Russian Federations annexation of the Ukraine and that is why Putin tried to get Trump reelected. I believe that this entire exercise was planned between 2019 and 2020 and since the wheels were placed in motion, Putin just attempted to carry it out. But, now with this failure, Putin's days could be numbered in the violent political atmosphere of the Russian Federation a major failure like this makes Vlad look weak, and weakness in Russian politics can get you killed. I agree that sanctions were part of the decision that helped make Putin see the light, and I also agree that this is not the end of Russian expansionism. But, it would be the perfect time to send a message to Putin by NATO joining with Ukrainian forces and expelling all the Russian forces from Ukrainian soil.:yes: That would send a very clear and very strong message to the Russian Federation that they would not soon forget.

Anyway, wherever you are when you read this lift a glass to Putin's Poodles and know that I am also lifting a glass,:yes: I imagine when they saw this news they wet themselves my sister!!!!!!!:lol: Maybe now we can send Putin's Poodles to the Poodle pound, because I doubt we will hear from for a while, I can picture them licking their wounds as we speak!!!:lol:

Hope you and your family are well and safe!:tu:

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, keithisco said:

Actually, all he did was what he said the build-up was for - Military Exercises. Where does the "Coward" comment come from:whistle:

I guess you were really hoping for conflict

You dont really believe that do you, you must be joking!:lol: In reality Putin thought he could walk unopposed into the Ukraine just like he did when he annexed the Crimea. I spent over 33 years in military Service and your comments do not pass any common sense test. No military in the history of warfare has or would ever conduct a Military Training Exercise on the Border of another Nation.:no: If you really do believe that, I have some Ocean Front property I will sell you in the Sahar Desert!!!:lol:

Let me help you out here, the coward comment comes from the fact that Putin turn and put his tiny tail between his legs and backed down when the United States, EU, and NATO confront him and would not back down. Hopeful the weakness he has shown may end his days, weakness is not viewed lightly in dictatorships!.

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Manwon Lender
42 minutes ago, NE1 said:

I wasn’t hoping for a conflict at all. 

Do you not feel there was any intent or provocation at all on the side of Russia to escalate it further? 

 

You in no way, based upon your comments intimated that you were hoping for a conflict. Dont let people bait you into answering comments that you never made. Your a new member and maybe your not use to people intentionally trying to bend what you say to fit their agenda, but on internet forums this a common practice.

Take care

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keithisco
16 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

You dont really believe that do you, you must be joking!:lol: In reality Putin thought he could walk unopposed into the Ukraine just like he did when he annexed the Crimea. I spent over 33 years in military Service and your comments do not pass any common sense test. No military in the history of warfare has or would ever conduct a Military Training Exercise on the Border of another Nation.:no: If you really do believe that, I have some Ocean Front property I will sell you in the Sahar Desert!!!:lol:

I am sorry to disagree, but this is exactly what major Military Training Exercises are all about. Training in representative theatres to find your weaknesses in deployment and ability to re-supply. NATO and Russia have done this for decades, and will do so for decades to come.

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, keithisco said:

I am sorry to disagree, but this is exactly what major Military Training Exercises are all about. Training in representative theatres to find your weaknesses in deployment and ability to re-supply. NATO and Russia have done this for decades, and will do so for decades to come.

Ok, please supply another example of any Nation that has ever moved all their military assets to another Nations boarders and practiced a mock invasion of their enemy. All you have to do is name one, that should be a very easy task for you to accomplish since you have stated this is normal Military Training procedures.

 Oh and by the way, I have trained and been in conflicts around the world and in the 33 years of my Military service I have never seen another Nation perform a training exercise like this. I personally wish that Putin was froggy enough to jump, because it would have ended Russian Expansion worldwide. 

Thanks for your reply, and I will gladly wait for your response!

Edited by Manwon Lender
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keithisco
1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

Ok, please supply another example of any Nation that has ever moved all their military assets to another Nations boarders and practiced a mock invasion of their enemy. All you have to do is name one, that should be a very easy task for you to accomplish since you have stated this is normal Military Training procedures.

Thanks for your reply, and I will gladly wait for your response!

Easy to reply, Russia did not move ALL of its Military Assets to the Ukraine border, just 10% and many of these went to Crimea. No nuclear launch capabilities were mobilised at all. China, India, North and South Korea, NATO along the Arctic and sub-Arctic borders with Russia... the list goes on

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Manwon Lender
2 minutes ago, keithisco said:

Easy to reply, Russia did not move ALL of its Military Assets to the Ukraine border, just 10% and many of these went to Crimea. No nuclear launch capabilities were mobilised at all. China, India, North and South Korea, NATO along the Arctic and sub-Arctic borders with Russia... the list goes on

You say no Nuclear launch capabilities were mobilized, can you prove that ?

Your list doesn't fit what has occurred over the last 30 days, none of those Nations have moved their military forces up to their enemies boarder and conducted training exercises. Since you appear to disagree please post some sources that show that military training exercises were conducted in the manner that the Russian Federation just did?

 I have personally participated in exercises at some of the locations you described, and we never conducted our exercises on those Nation boarders. 

 

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Helen of Annoy
54 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

You say no Nuclear launch capabilities were mobilized, can you prove that ?

Your list doesn't fit what has occurred over the last 30 days, none of those Nations have moved their military forces up to their enemies boarder and conducted training exercises. Since you appear to disagree please post some sources that show that military training exercises were conducted in the manner that the Russian Federation just did?

 I have personally participated in exercises at some of the locations you described, and we never conducted our exercises on those Nation boarders. 

 

I think some people have a problem (on top of trying to find excuses for Putin) with understanding the difference between reconnaissance (that does happen near and at the borders) and actual exercises. 

You tell them that no exercises take place near borders (logically) but they confuse it (out of lack of knowledge or maliciously) with military presence at the borders. 

Presence of NATO on the same continent with Russia is peddled by Putin's propaganda machine as something that gives Russia right to attack neighbouring countries. It would be funny if it was limited to official current Russian regime's channels - but when it's parroted by pro-Russians in the West, it becomes something that can't be ignored anymore. 

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Jon the frog
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, keithisco said:

Possibly "Testing the water", or to see how quickly they could deploy a large force

It was probably a deployment training like all big nations do to p*ss off nemesis. It worked incredibly well, Nato probably spent ten times the money in reaction than Russia bringing a ton of old stuff near the border with trains...

Edited by Jon the frog
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Manwon Lender
4 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I think some people have a problem (on top of trying to find excuses for Putin) with understanding the difference between reconnaissance (that does happen near and at the borders) and actual exercises. 

You tell them that no exercises take place near borders (logically) but they confuse it (out of lack of knowledge or maliciously) with military presence at the borders. 

Presence of NATO on the same continent with Russia is peddled by Putin's propaganda machine as something that gives Russia right to attack neighbouring countries. It would be funny if it was limited to official current Russian regime's channels - but when it's parroted by pro-Russians in the West, it becomes something that can't be ignored anymore. 

I agree that they do not understand the difference between reconnaissance and training exercises. The reason is clear, it is not subject matter they have any knowledge of. Did you notice that the individual I quoted never answered the questions I asked him, the reason why is simple. He was only offering an opinion that wasn't fact based, and this is a major problem on Internet forums. People love to express their thoughts and offer their opinions, which find so long as they don't represent them as facts. 

Under President Trump, Putin had free rain to peddle his Propaganda and to threaten his neighbors unchecked. After what occurred over the last two days his bully status is severely damaged. By backing down like he did his credibility in the eyes of other Nations he has threatened that were not members of NATO will now try to join. He has opened the door for a cascade effect that may destroy the power and fear he once held over many neighboring Nations. In my opinion now is the time for the United States, the EU, and NATO to dictate terms to him concerning the Crimea. 

People like him only know and understand one thing and that is strength through superior fire power. At this point in time that superior fire power is facing his Nation, and now is the time to exploit that advantage. I am not advocating armed conflict, I have seen the results of that too many times, and .I do understand how terrible it is. What I am saying is now as soon as possible it's time to force Russia to the negotiating table, and to make the Crimea the topic of that summit. When an enemy is down and you don't want to face further conflict with them, by applying pressure when they are most vulnerable, it will have a permanent and lasting effect psychologically on them.

As far as the Pro-Russians in the west and even those here on the forum are concerned,  the best way to shut them up was accomplished by making Putin blink. The Moment he lost face, they also lost face and unless he returns to his previous position as the bully, their voices will be mute. People like we are discussing here are cowards, and they have no spine. Once their hero falls they will scurry back into the shadows like the rats they are. But, look on the bright side by coming forward and making their support known they have exposed themselves and no one will forget what they have said and done. So maybe in that respect it is a positive factor not a negative one that the Putins Poodles ( I love that term ) did come out and let  everyone know who and what they stand for.

Well my Sister I have gotten a little long winded, sorry if my comments bore you!!:lol: But I honestly really enjoy our conversations, and I always learn something new from you, and fir that I thank you very much.:tu:

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keithisco
2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

You say no Nuclear launch capabilities were mobilized, can you prove that ?

Your list doesn't fit what has occurred over the last 30 days, none of those Nations have moved their military forces up to their enemies boarder and conducted training exercises. Since you appear to disagree please post some sources that show that military training exercises were conducted in the manner that the Russian Federation just did?

 I have personally participated in exercises at some of the locations you described, and we never conducted our exercises on those Nation boarders. 

 

So now you restrict it to the last 30 Days? You are the person with claimed 30 years service...do not think should have all the data to hand?

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keithisco
9 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I agree that they do not understand the difference between reconnaissance and training exercises. The reason is clear, it is not subject matter they have any knowledge of. Did you notice that the individual I quoted never answered the questions I asked him, the reason why is simple. He was only offering an opinion that wasn't fact based, and this is a major problem on Internet forums. People love to express their thoughts and offer their opinions, which find so long as they don't represent them as facts. 

Under President Trump, Putin had free rain to peddle his Propaganda and to threaten his neighbors unchecked. After what occurred over the last two days his bully status is severely damaged. By backing down like he did his credibility in the eyes of other Nations he has threatened that were not members of NATO will now try to join. He has opened the door for a cascade effect that may destroy the power and fear he once held over many neighboring Nations. In my opinion now is the time for the United States, the EU, and NATO to dictate terms to him concerning the Crimea. 

People like him only know and understand one thing and that is strength through superior fire power. At this point in time that superior fire power is facing his Nation, and now is the time to exploit that advantage. I am not advocating armed conflict, I have seen the results of that too many times, and .I do understand how terrible it is. What I am saying is now as soon as possible it's time to force Russia to the negotiating table, and to make the Crimea the topic of that summit. When an enemy is down and you don't want to face further conflict with them, by applying pressure when they are most vulnerable, it will have a permanent and lasting effect psychologically on them.

As far as the Pro-Russians in the west and even those here on the forum are concerned,  the best way to shut them up was accomplished by making Putin blink. The Moment he lost face, they also lost face and unless he returns to his previous position as the bully, their voices will be mute. People like we are discussing here are cowards, and they have no spine. Once their hero falls they will scurry back into the shadows like the rats they are. But, look on the bright side by coming forward and making their support known they have exposed themselves and no one will forget what they have said and done. So maybe in that respect it is a positive factor not a negative one that the Putins Poodles ( I love that term ) did come out and let  everyone know who and what they stand for.

Well my Sister I have gotten a little long winded, sorry if my comments bore you!!:lol: But I honestly really enjoy our conversations, and I always learn something new from you, and fir that I thank you very much.:tu:

Your comments bore me... you have backed nothing up (despite your supposed 30 yrs of service). I am NOT pro-Russian, quite the opposite, but I will not accept outright lies for some to try and prop up their arguments.

Instead of "sucking up" to Helen of annoy you need to express your own beliefs and then support them. 

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Hammerclaw

Putin is looking for an excuse to enter Ukraine in force, no pretense, no little green men. NATO entering Ukraine in force to bolster it's ally would have been that pretext for invasion. They would have swept south in a blitzkrieg, to Donetsk, then West linking up with their forces in Crimea, all the way to Odessa and Moldova, effectively landlocking the rest of Ukraine. This would secure the land approaches to their naval infrastructure in Crimea and link Moldova with Mother Russia. NATO should be on it's guard, that the troop withdrawals aren't in fact, troop rotations.

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keithisco
8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Putin is looking for an excuse to enter Ukraine in force, no pretense, no little green men. NATO entering Ukraine in force to bolster it's ally would have been that pretext for invasion. They would have swept south in a blitzkrieg, to Donetsk, then West linking up with their forces in Crimea, all the way to Odessa and Moldova, effectively landlocking the rest of Ukraine. This would secure the land approaches to their naval infrastructure in Crimea and link Moldova with Mother Russia. NATO should be on it's guard, that the troop withdrawals aren't in fact, troop rotations.

Except... this never happened

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Helen of Annoy
46 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I agree that they do not understand the difference between reconnaissance and training exercises. The reason is clear, it is not subject matter they have any knowledge of. Did you notice that the individual I quoted never answered the questions I asked him, the reason why is simple. He was only offering an opinion that wasn't fact based, and this is a major problem on Internet forums. People love to express their thoughts and offer their opinions, which find so long as they don't represent them as facts. 

Under President Trump, Putin had free rain to peddle his Propaganda and to threaten his neighbors unchecked. After what occurred over the last two days his bully status is severely damaged. By backing down like he did his credibility in the eyes of other Nations he has threatened that were not members of NATO will now try to join. He has opened the door for a cascade effect that may destroy the power and fear he once held over many neighboring Nations. In my opinion now is the time for the United States, the EU, and NATO to dictate terms to him concerning the Crimea. 

People like him only know and understand one thing and that is strength through superior fire power. At this point in time that superior fire power is facing his Nation, and now is the time to exploit that advantage. I am not advocating armed conflict, I have seen the results of that too many times, and .I do understand how terrible it is. What I am saying is now as soon as possible it's time to force Russia to the negotiating table, and to make the Crimea the topic of that summit. When an enemy is down and you don't want to face further conflict with them, by applying pressure when they are most vulnerable, it will have a permanent and lasting effect psychologically on them.

As far as the Pro-Russians in the west and even those here on the forum are concerned,  the best way to shut them up was accomplished by making Putin blink. The Moment he lost face, they also lost face and unless he returns to his previous position as the bully, their voices will be mute. People like we are discussing here are cowards, and they have no spine. Once their hero falls they will scurry back into the shadows like the rats they are. But, look on the bright side by coming forward and making their support known they have exposed themselves and no one will forget what they have said and done. So maybe in that respect it is a positive factor not a negative one that the Putins Poodles ( I love that term ) did come out and let  everyone know who and what they stand for.

Well my Sister I have gotten a little long winded, sorry if my comments bore you!!:lol: But I honestly really enjoy our conversations, and I always learn something new from you, and fir that I thank you very much.:tu:

Don't worry, it wasn't long winded at all. And I vigorously agree with you on all accounts. 

Putin blinked but he will continue to support the separatists in Ukraine, just as he will continue to support anyone in the West who looks like a divisive factor.

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Helen of Annoy
11 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Putin is looking for an excuse to enter Ukraine in force, no pretense, no little green men. NATO entering Ukraine in force to bolster it's ally would have been that pretext for invasion. They would have swept south in a blitzkrieg, to Donetsk, then West linking up with their forces in Crimea, all the way to Odessa and Moldova, effectively landlocking the rest of Ukraine. This would secure the land approaches to their naval infrastructure in Crimea and link Moldova with Mother Russia. NATO should be on it's guard, that the troop withdrawals aren't in fact, troop rotations.

Exactly. 

I disagree that there's danger in Ukraine entering NATO, in the sense of giving Putin excuse to invade. If he thought he can invade, openly, he'd do it under any excuse. Civilian victim of mutual mortar exchange, for example. 

Ukraine must be admitted to NATO urgently, now, yesterday, because it is the only deterrent strong enough to repel Putin's creeping invasion (that consists of support for separatists).  

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, keithisco said:

Except... this never happened

Not yet. Surely your not saying Mother Russia would never do this sort of thing, foment revolt in it's Eastern provinces and enter the country clandestinely and seize and annex territory, which, in fact it already has? Putin is far more subtle than Stalin, but he is Russian. 

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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Exactly. 

I disagree that there's danger in Ukraine entering NATO, in the sense of giving Putin excuse to invade. If he thought he can invade, openly, he'd do it under any excuse. Civilian victim of mutual mortar exchange, for example. 

Ukraine must be admitted to NATO urgently, now, yesterday, because it is the only deterrent strong enough to repel Putin's creeping invasion (that consists of support for separatists).  

If his intentions are what I suspect, it will be no deterrent. He will move quickly and present NATO with a fait accompli, daring them to do anything about it. He's positioned his military assets precisely where he needs them to effect what I hypothesize. It all boils down to how willing NATO members are to resigning themselves to policing a frozen conflict. They have fostered a dependence on Russian natural gas that's problematic. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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