E Pluribus Unum - The Unum test

[+Desertrat56]

https://time.com/5954170/partisanship-how-to-reunite-america/?emci=50e51dea-ce9b-eb11-85aa-0050f237abef&emdi=3a1937d1-669c-eb11-85aa-0050f237abef&ceid=77032&utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_emailThreeThings

Eighty percent of Americans say they are concerned about political polarization. Seventy-eight percent of Americans believe it’s important that Republicans and Democrats work together. How can we achieve that?

First, by changing the twisted incentive structure in our politics. The rigged system of congressional redistricting can result in parties losing the statewide vote but still winning more seats in Congress. Ronald Reagan called this the “antidemocratic and un-American practice of gerrymandering.” Today ninety percent of Members of Congress live in “safe seats” without meaningful congressional general elections while about 30% of state legislative races are not even contested. This empowers partisan extremes (especially in closed party primaries) and typically drives down turnout while disincentivizing bipartisan compromise.

...

Finally, growing concerns about political corruption need to be addressed before they fundamentally compromise the credibility of our democracy. It is past time for reforms that reduce the influence of big money on elections, compel legislators to disclose if any of the language in their bills have been drafted by people with a financial interest in its passage, while requiring more transparency about donors to dark money Super-PACs. Presidential candidates should be required to release their tax returns, family members of presidents should not work in the White House and presidential pardons should be processed through proper channels in the Justice Department.

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I hope you all will read the ful article.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Desertrat56

[Dreamer screamer]

Political polarization?  left and right?  why???  Doesn't make any sense. That is like workers creating a left and right in sainsburys as to what side wins rules when both sides answer to the corporation.   America is a massive corporation and why anyone that joins the ponzi scheme through the Citizenship test, joins the country and has to adhere to all the rules set out by the corporation.      

 

[Gromdor]

Yeah, that was one of the terrible things about gerrymandering.  Clumping people into "sure win" groups for politicians.  But with our current system, it's not like we can scrap these zones and just vote online as a state or country either.

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Political polarization?  left and right?  why???  Doesn't make any sense. That is like workers creating a left and right in sainsburys as to what side wins rules when both sides answer to the corporation.   America is a massive corporation and why anyone that joins the ponzi scheme through the Citizenship test, joins the country and has to adhere to all the rules set out by the corporation.      

 

Actually citizenship means very little.  Corporations routinely hire immigrants (both legal and nonlegal) and they function no differently in our society than regular citizens.  It's an awkward question, but I often ask, "Just what does the average American citizen actually contribute to the country anyways?"  The only muffled answer I ever received was "Pay taxes" or "Serve in the military" both of which immigrants do as well.

The attitude most seem to have is that citizenship grants them "Freedom" which they exercise in a fashion that is damaging to the country- for instance not wearing masks, not getting vaccines, rioting, burning, looting, and what not.  As former military, I swore to protect them and the country, but I don't particularly think they are anything special or even beneficial to the country at times.

[Myles]

the article wasn't realistic.   Not sure the political system can be fixed.  All the politicians are crooks and scoundrels and they won't vote to make it any different.  They tow the party line on almost everything.  A recent example is the House vote to add DC as a 51st state.   All Dems voted yes and all Reps voted no.   

[+Desertrat56]

15 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Yeah, that was one of the terrible things about gerrymandering.  Clumping people into "sure win" groups for politicians.  But with our current system, it's not like we can scrap these zones and just vote online as a state or country either.

They can be redistricted to a more reasonable districting.   There is a lot we can do without scrapping anything.   The gerrmandering causes redistricting all the time.  The article explains how it can be fixed.

[+Desertrat56]

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

the article wasn't realistic.   Not sure the political system can be fixed.  All the politicians are crooks and scoundrels and they won't vote to make it any different.  They tow the party line on almost everything.  A recent example is the House vote to add DC as a 51st state.   All Dems voted yes and all Reps voted no.   

There are ways to remove the grip of the two parties that they have on our system.

[aztek]

kind of too late, democracy is a decretory term and a joke now,  has 0 credibility

[Dreamer screamer]

6 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Actually citizenship means very little.  Corporations routinely hire immigrants (both legal and nonlegal) and they function no differently in our society than regular citizens.  It's an awkward question, but I often ask, "Just what does the average American citizen actually contribute to the country anyways?"  The only muffled answer I ever received was "Pay taxes" or "Serve in the military" both of which immigrants do as well.

That is ignorance.         Is there an agenda behind this hiring illegal immigrants in America?     Ever heard of a ponzi scheme?

6 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

The attitude most seem to have is that citizenship grants them "Freedom"which they exercise in a fashion that is damaging to the country-for instance not wearing masks, not getting vaccines, rioting, burning, looting, and what not.  As former military, I swore to protect them and the country, but I don't particularly think they are anything special or even beneficial to the country at times.

Citizenship is not about freedom    It's about joining a corporation.  You as a citizen have to abide by the rules set by the corporation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces

Fasces (English: /ˈfæsiːz/ FASS-eez, Latin: [ˈfaskeːs]; a plurale tantum, from the Latin word fascis, meaning "bundle";^[1] Italian: fascio littorio) is a bound bundle of wooden rods, sometimes including an axe with its blade emerging. The fasces is an Italian symbol that had its origin in the Etruscan civilization and was passed on to ancient Rome, where it symbolized a magistrate's power and jurisdiction

What jurisdiction is America in??

a. Authority or control

So you are free under an authority to pay taxes, do as you are told and that is someones idea of freedom....   not mine.  

Where did they get all their authority and bill of rights 1689 from, England.

why did a country win against the English and use our laws and constitutions?  Constitutions mean, mob rule!!   So why did the presidents at the time use mob rule to America under English rule?  

[Dreamer screamer]

9 minutes ago, aztek said:

kind of too late, democracy is a decretory term and a joke now,  has 0 credibility

Democracy = mobe rule.   who has 51% rules the 49%.   Sometime it works, Brexit happened because of Democracy.    But that was out of the left and right political rule though.

[Dreamer screamer]

15 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

There are ways to remove the grip of the two parties that they have on our system.

Don't vote? The lunatics always get in.

[Myles]

19 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

There are ways to remove the grip of the two parties that they have on our system.

I don't think so.   Those in control will not give up their job perks and hatred of each other.  Voting down party lines tells me everything I need to know.   They don't vote how they feel, they vote how the party wants them to.   Scoundrels.  

[+Desertrat56]

26 minutes ago, Myles said:

I don't think so.   Those in control will not give up their job perks and hatred of each other.  Voting down party lines tells me everything I need to know.   They don't vote how they feel, they vote how the party wants them to.   Scoundrels.  

Then you have to vote outside of party lines.  If enough people did that the two parties would not have the power they do have.  Any time an independent gets into the senate or congress that is a victory for the voters.  If people would quit choosing sides (neither represents them, unless they are big money) then we could get control back from the two parties.   You can use the defeatist excuses that you have no power if you want but I choose not to make excuses, rather to do what I can to make changes.   Too many lazy thinkers in this country.

[Myles]

7 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Then you have to vote outside of party lines.  If enough people did that the two parties would not have the power they do have.  Any time an independent gets into the senate or congress that is a victory for the voters.  If people would quit choosing sides (neither represents them, unless they are big money) then we could get control back from the two parties.   You can use the defeatist excuses that you have no power if you want but I choose not to make excuses, rather to do what I can to make changes.   Too many lazy thinkers in this country.

I like the idea, but don't see enough people doing it.   Heck, I voted for Ross Perot because I wanted a 3rd party.   Many are also only "Independents" in name only.  Bernie Sanders votes straight down the Democrat line.

I should say that Bernie has voted against the Democrats before, but over 80% of the time he is with them.   Almost all that he voted against were minor things like "closure motion agreed to" and "motion to proceed".  

Edited April 23, 2021 by Myles

[Gromdor]

50 minutes ago, Dreamer screamer said:

That is ignorance.         Is there an agenda behind this hiring illegal immigrants in America?     Ever heard of a ponzi scheme?

Citizenship is not about freedom    It's about joining a corporation.  You as a citizen have to abide by the rules set by the corporation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces

Fasces (English: /ˈfæsiːz/ FASS-eez, Latin: [ˈfaskeːs]; a plurale tantum, from the Latin word fascis, meaning "bundle";^[1] Italian: fascio littorio) is a bound bundle of wooden rods, sometimes including an axe with its blade emerging. The fasces is an Italian symbol that had its origin in the Etruscan civilization and was passed on to ancient Rome, where it symbolized a magistrate's power and jurisdiction

What jurisdiction is America in??

a. Authority or control

So you are free under an authority to pay taxes, do as you are told and that is someones idea of freedom....   not mine.  

Where did they get all their authority and bill of rights 1689 from, England.

why did a country win against the English and use our laws and constitutions?  Constitutions mean, mob rule!!   So why did the presidents at the time use mob rule to America under English rule?  

Comparing citizenship to fascism is new to me.  I do see how comparing it as a stockholder has some parallels, however.  People can own shares in a company and not care about a company or act against the interests of a company.

[+Desertrat56]

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

I like the idea, but don't see enough people doing it.   Heck, I voted for Ross Perot because I wanted a 3rd party.   Many are also only "Independents" in name only.  Bernie Sanders votes straight down the Democrat line.

I should say that Bernie has voted against the Democrats before, but over 80% of the time he is with them.   Almost all that he voted against were minor things like "closure motion agreed to" and "motion to proceed".  

Not too many people do it because, like you, they think their one vote doesn't make a difference.  That is what needs to change, everyone's defeatist attitude (slave mentality - slaves to what they perceive the system to be)

Deb Haaland is one congress person who actually represented her constituents.   Teresa Leger Fernandez may be another one, time will tell.  And we have to vote in a replacement for Deb in June which gives us the opportunity to vote for a 3rd party candidate.   The libertarian candidate is well known in the state so I am hoping he has some pull but I am disappointed in the lack of energy coming from that party.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Desertrat56

[Myles]

9 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Not too many people do it because, like you, they think their one vote doesn't make a difference.  That is what needs to change, everyone's defeatist attitude (slave mentality - slaves to what they perceive the system to be)

Deb Haaland is one congress person who actually represented her constituents.   Teresa Leger Fernandez may be another one, time will tell.  And we have to vote in a replacement for Deb in June which gives us the opportunity to vote for a 3rd party candidate.   The libertarian candidate is well known in the state so I am hoping he has some pull but I am disappointed in the lack of energy coming from that party.

It makes me think that they are choosing to or being forced to not go all in.  

Trump vs Hillary should have been a dream election to go full in for a 3rd party.  A large percentage of people voted for Trump because he wasn't Hillary and many others voted for Hillary because she was not Trump.   Even last year with a Trump vs Biden ticket.  3rd parties should have been going all in.  

[+Desertrat56]

7 minutes ago, Myles said:

It makes me think that they are choosing to or being forced to not go all in.  

Trump vs Hillary should have been a dream election to go full in for a 3rd party.  A large percentage of people voted for Trump because he wasn't Hillary and many others voted for Hillary because she was not Trump.   Even last year with a Trump vs Biden ticket.  3rd parties should have been going all in.  

AND there was one 3rd party candidate and he did his own campaigning, got himself on television interviews etc, and in our state he got 7% of the vote because we knew him.    Jo Jorgensen was not on national television as far as I could tell and she complained to me that the media shut her out.   If Gary Johnson could get around that (because they did the same to him) then she could have.   There is too much big money involved in our campaigns and we need to start voting with our money, quit supporting the corporations that are manipulating our politics.   Sometimes that means doing without something you like but don't need, sometimes that means switching to a different type of product (for example silicone bags instead of plastic, or laundry detergent that comes in a box and has no plastic involved, etc).

[aztek]

1 hour ago, Dreamer screamer said:

Democracy = mobe rule.   who has 51% rules the 49%.   Sometime it works, Brexit happened because of Democracy.    But that was out of the left and right political rule though.

yea i'm sure all middle eastern courtiers where we  exported our democracy just can't get enough of it,  

[+OverSword]

1 hour ago, Myles said:

the article wasn't realistic.   Not sure the political system can be fixed.  All the politicians are crooks and scoundrels and they won't vote to make it any different.  They tow the party line on almost everything.  A recent example is the House vote to add DC as a 51st state.   All Dems voted yes and all Reps voted no.   

The system can be fixed but it has to be done from the ground up.  First through grass roots initiatives all the rules we want for the federal government have to be implemented in town and city governments, then county, and finally state.  It will take a lot of involvement from the public and a lot of work gathering signatures etc.  If we can fix all the rules at those levels then we can more easily attract reformers into running for federally elected positions.  If all the states have strict campaign finance rules then they are beholden to no one when they get to DC and the strictly partisan version of politics will probably vanish.

[Dreamer screamer]

51 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Comparing citizenship to fascism is new to me.  I do see how comparing it as a stockholder has some parallels, however.  People can own shares in a company and not care about a company or act against the interests of a company.

New to you, but not new to the controllers. 

Isn't that the trick to taking over the company or destroying a Company?

We had a company called Carillion in the UK.  It was well funded by the government, but went into bankruptcy because the government was giving it too much money and the ownersship of that company was a LTD company.  To kill a corporation you give it to much money and many contracts.     In the End the legal owners walked away with millions while the little people got NOTHING!!

Take a look into Carillion because it shows you exactly how the system works and doesn't work.

 

[Dreamer screamer]

27 minutes ago, aztek said:

yea i'm sure all middle eastern courtiers where we  exported our democracy just can't get enough of it,  

Look it up.   Democracy = mob rule!!   Democracy = Constitution.  What was the first ever legal document signed into existence???

If you can't go into a country and control it, what do you do?

Edited April 23, 2021 by Dreamer screamer

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, OverSword said:

The system can be fixed but it has to be done from the ground up.  First through grass roots initiatives all the rules we want for the federal government have to be implemented in town and city governments, then county, and finally state.  It will take a lot of involvement from the public and a lot of work gathering signatures etc.  If we can fix all the rules at those levels then we can more easily attract reformers into running for federally elected positions.  If all the states have strict campaign finance rules then they are beholden to no one when they get to DC and the strictly partisan version of politics will probably vanish.

I guess that is a sliver of hope, but I'm not sure it'll happen.   Those in congress have access to too much money.   I think a limit on terms for those in congress could have the bigger effect.  I think they are not rocking the party boat because they think they may be there for years and years.   They want the gravy train to last as long as possible. 

[+OverSword]

40 minutes ago, Myles said:

I guess that is a sliver of hope, but I'm not sure it'll happen.   Those in congress have access to too much money.   I think a limit on terms for those in congress could have the bigger effect.  I think they are not rocking the party boat because they think they may be there for years and years.   They want the gravy train to last as long as possible. 

Term limits doesn't get rid of the money.  I think taking the money out will get rid of most career politicians and then politicians will be more likely to vote for what's best for the people and the nation instead of what's best for big business and their own wallet.  Especially if we outlaw their and their spouses ability to trade stocks while in office.  We would pretty much have politicians who are there to serve the public.  I bet another effect that would have is that we would soon be out of forever wars around the world. 

[Myles]

2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Term limits doesn't get rid of the money.  I think taking the money out will get rid of most career politicians and then politicians will be more likely to vote for what's best for the people and the nation instead of what's best for big business and their own wallet.  Especially if we outlaw their and their spouses ability to trade stocks while in office.  We would pretty much have politicians who are there to serve the public.  I bet another effect that would have is that we would soon be out of forever wars around the world. 

Unfortunately the money is going to stay.  They will not vote for anything that limits it. 

I like your idea and would pair it with a 2 term limit.    The longer one is there the more corrupt they become.  The money tends to go to the members who will be there for years to come.