My Grandfather's NDE

[psyche101]

28 minutes ago, the13bats said:

No one is ignoring legitimate evidence to support claims of an afterlife, 

They are ignoring evidence that the afterlife does not exist. I replied to preacherman about what a hypocrite Greyson is but I can't seem to spot that post all of a sudden. 

His claim of afterlife so called evidence are about as sound as Trump's election fraud claims.

[psyche101]

6 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

the only thing is scientists have to prove when the mind did dyed and it went on:)   the electrical activity in the brain.

It's been watched. People die. Nothing shows them going on. 

What we have seen isn't a way to survive death. It's the very opposite. The afterlife is a pipe dream. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

It's been watched. People die. Nothing shows them going on. 

What we have seen isn't a way to survive death. It's the very opposite. The afterlife is a pipe dream. 

Hey Psyche I hope you and yours are doing well. Ya know my friend, I don't know about NDEs, but I can tell you when I was severely injured in the Middle East and evacuated to Germany I did not have one. But, I am living on borrowed time, luck is the only reason I am typing this right now. But,there is one thing I can tell you. Having something to believe in eases ones pain and calms ones fear, in that respect Spirituality is not a negative attribute no matter what actually happens when we pass!

Take Care my friend. 

[the13bats]

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

They are ignoring evidence that the afterlife does not exist. I replied to preacherman about what a hypocrite Greyson is but I can't seem to spot that post all of a sudden. 

His claim of afterlife so called evidence are about as sound as Trump's election fraud claims.

Its a bit grim to some i suppose but after all the time of my interest in such subjects LAD ( life after death ) certainly has not been proven except to those who believe which is exactly what it is belief.

I also from what ive seen the most ardent believers many times believe in other supernatural paranormal subjects, ive come to think from things ive heard and seen them say they simply fear death, its human, to hope for a LAD is expected in my mind.

in my case i believe my epiphany came around oddly, years back 2 hurricanes hit fl hard one after the other no power or water for a while, my house was a hovel and i was very ill.

I was scared, deeply scared of a lot of things and it came to me that what i feared like the weather i couldnt do a thing about and i was too sick to do anything but hunker in, i now view death like that with an strange comfort.

I cant say i "fear" death perhaps a bit scared thats the end but not terrified, ive seen examples of things sherapy has posted on here, my 89 yo dad was worn out, tired, felt horrible in pain and knew it wasnt getting better so sure he welcomed anything over that, he was happy to rest.

He lived a great life and he was ready to shuffle off this mortal coil, im sure not ready to pass but i am not dodging it or trying to sugar coat it with unproven claims biased on fears.

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Its a bit grim to some i suppose but after all the time of my interest in such subjects LAD ( life after death ) certainly has not been proven except to those who believe which is exactly what it is belief.

I also from what ive seen the most ardent believers many times believe in other supernatural paranormal subjects, ive come to think from things ive heard and seen them say they simply fear death, its human, to hope for a LAD is expected in my mind.

in my case i believe my epiphany came around oddly, years back 2 hurricanes hit fl hard one after the other no power or water for a while, my house was a hovel and i was very ill.

I was scared, deeply scared of a lot of things and it came to me that what i feared like the weather i couldnt do a thing about and i was too sick to do anything but hunker in, i now view death like that with an strange comfort.

I cant say i "fear" death perhaps a bit scared thats the end but not terrified, ive seen examples of things sherapy has posted on here, my 89 yo dad was worn out, tired, felt horrible in pain and knew it wasnt getting better so sure he welcomed anything over that, he was happy to rest.

He lived a great life and he was ready to shuffle off this mortal coil, im sure not ready to pass but i am not dodging it or trying to sugar coat it with unproven claims biased on fears.

 

What ever gets you through the night, it alright!! John Lennon ( 1974 )

Take care my friend, and I truly believe Johns message.

 

[papageorge1]

5 hours ago, the13bats said:

 LAD ( life after death ) certainly has not been proven except to those who believe which is exactly what it is belief.

Nobody is talking 'proof' as that would be moving the goalposts to an impossible place given the instrumentation available to current science. Now one can believe life after death is highly likely based on an overall consideration of all the available evidence and argumentation from all sides. At that point then the 'belief' comes from 'objective reasoning' which is the best tool available at this time.

[preacherman76]

I think it’s strange the science and no proof guys can’t see NDE’s for the valuable information it is. Not to say it proves life after death, but there are more than enough experiences to search for patterns and apply mathematical probabilities. These are not just stories. A story would be me telling you about the 28 inch trout I caught this morning with no pictures. 
 

These are people who have been by every medical standard, clinically dead, coming back and telling similar experiences as millions of others who experienced the same. All through history right up till now. There is more than enough information to build a solid theory. To sit here and pretend this is all just faith based nonsense is ridiculous. 

[preacherman76]

And BTW I have never once said I know the after life exist. 

[the13bats]

10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Nobody is talking 'proof' as that would be moving the goalposts to an impossible place given the instrumentation available to current science. Now one can believe life after death is highly likely based on an overall consideration of all the available evidence and argumentation from all sides. At that point then the 'belief' comes from 'objective reasoning' which is the best tool available at this time.

Pretty much your biased opinions not facts.

Its lame to claim asking for proof or good evidence is moving goal posts thats the normal cry when you are running empty,

I fully agree with you there is no proof of life after death and the evidence is weak nada, those who claim stories of NDE being similar means its evidence of an afterlife are reaching and grasping and also showing an ignorance as to how the human brains responds to shock trama, "dying".

humans share a physiology and brains of course the shock trauma of dying will yeild similar experences its far from evidence of an afterlife its very much proof we are all human.

For people to make a jump its evidence of an afterlife is just fear, faith and belief talking, delusinal,

if you say no, bats science has evidence of afterlife then post it, happy happy joy joy clickbait stories of NDE and claims of afterlife are not scientific or evidence its just a story from those who fear death and need to feel better not live in fear of death.

In the end NDE is the result of shock trauma  on the brain and claims of afterlife are based on belief and fear not evidence.

My suggestion is get okay with the fact we all will die, then if i am correct you will never know i was right. If you are right the afterlife would be a rather ****ty place if you get to hound me you were right.

[papageorge1]

11 hours ago, the13bats said:

Pretty much your biased opinions not facts.

Its lame to claim asking for proof or good evidence is moving goal posts thats the normal cry when you are running empty,

I fully agree with you there is no proof of life after death and the evidence is weak nada, those who claim stories of NDE being similar means its evidence of an afterlife are reaching and grasping and also showing an ignorance as to how the human brains responds to shock trama, "dying".

humans share a physiology and brains of course the shock trauma of dying will yeild similar experences its far from evidence of an afterlife its very much proof we are all human.

For people to make a jump its evidence of an afterlife is just fear, faith and belief talking, delusinal,

if you say no, bats science has evidence of afterlife then post it, happy happy joy joy clickbait stories of NDE and claims of afterlife are not scientific or evidence its just a story from those who fear death and need to feel better not live in fear of death.

In the end NDE is the result of shock trauma  on the brain and claims of afterlife are based on belief and fear not evidence.

My suggestion is get okay with the fact we all will die, then if i am correct you will never know i was right. If you are right the afterlife would be a rather ****ty place if you get to hound me you were right.

My belief in the afterlife comes from multiple types of evidence and not just the NDE. Such as Afterlife Evidence. Anyway, I'm sure you will call all the different types of evidence 'no evidence'. As for me, I think the cumulative evidence for an afterlife is overwhelming and above 99% on the Papameter.

Edited May 3, 2021 by papageorge1

[the13bats]

6 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

My belief in the afterlife comes from multiple types of evidence and not just the NDE. Such as Afterlife Evidence. Anyway, I'm sure you will call all the different types of evidence 'no evidence'. As for me, I think the cumulative evidence for an afterlife is overwhelming and above 99% on the Papameter.

You listed Ouija boards, phychics and other unproven paranormal sources, surprised you didnt list Harry Potter you cant use unproven make believe to try to prove something is real, its ridiculous to claim a Ouija board is evidence of an afterlife, im still waiting for you to have your ghost buddy tell you where i lost my keys...still waiting and you have nada.

Going past unproven sources You rightly deliberately ignore the fact all you have are stories

( stories no matter how many are not evidence except for grasping true believers who have nothing more )

or you would post your best alleged evidence of an afterlife, if you have "different types" which you claim you do post your best non anidotial evidence,

Do not move goal posts, do not cop out with lame excuses if you have anything more than stories show us your best put your asinine make believe meter away, and post your best real non anidotial evidence to support your beliefs.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/848991/life-after-death-what-happens-when-you-die-quantum-physics

https://bigworldtale.com/science/life-after-death-bill-nye-says-overwhelming-evidence-proves-there-is-no-afterlife/

[preacherman76]

9 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

My belief in the afterlife comes from multiple types of evidence and not just the NDE. Such as Afterlife Evidence. Anyway, I'm sure you will call all the different types of evidence 'no evidence'. As for me, I think the cumulative evidence for an afterlife is overwhelming and above 99% on the Papameter.

Awesome link. Thanks for posting it 

[psyche101]

On 5/2/2021 at 3:05 PM, Manwon Lender said:

Hey Psyche I hope you and yours are doing well. Ya know my friend, I don't know about NDEs, but I can tell you when I was severely injured in the Middle East and evacuated to Germany I did not have one. But, I am living on borrowed time, luck is the only reason I am typing this right now.

Hey bud

Ive known a few who have been at deaths door and it's the only one I've ever heard personally. Just nothing.

I just can't overlook the science. I can't help but trust nature over humans. 

On 5/2/2021 at 3:05 PM, Manwon Lender said:

 But,there is one thing I can tell you. Having something to believe in eases ones pain and calms ones fear, in that respect Spirituality is not a negative attribute no matter what actually happens when we pass!

Take Care my friend. 

I reckon that's how we came up with it. Grief is a tough thing to go through and as we developed compassion it would only be harder to live with. 

[the13bats]

On 5/2/2021 at 6:13 AM, Manwon Lender said:

What ever gets you through the night, it alright!! John Lennon ( 1974 )

Take care my friend, and I truly believe Johns message.

 

It doesnt get me through anything.

I was in orlando my dad was in a hostpital in jacksonville, he was slipping the loving Step family waited to the last moments to clue me in,

I was contacted that his kidneys failed and i should head out, im not perfect you know of my mental issues yet i go tripping and stumbling to the car for a 3 hr drive i get a call hed gone.

I go lay down, to deal with my loss my grief my way latet i was dogged and damned for not rushing there to look at my dead father, i was told as he went he told my step mother he would ne waiting at the pearly gates for her, so manwon if my dad is standing at some pearly gates i hope there is a bench to sit at, perhaps do a crossword puzzle as step mom is still around.

And if dad is at pearly gates then his afterlife is different to what you and others believe, oh dear, who is right?

No, i dont believe my dads conscience entity is loitering around some pearly gates somewhere  where?

What i do take some comfort in is dad no longer is hurting.

[Grim Reaper 6]

22 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Hey bud

Ive known a few who have been at deaths door and it's the only one I've ever heard personally. Just nothing.

I just can't overlook the science. I can't help but trust nature over humans. 

I reckon that's how we came up with it. Grief is a tough thing to go through and as we developed compassion it would only be harder to live with. 

Yea I agree with you completely, Grief is a terrible thing and in my opinion if spirituality of some type can ease that pain, I see nothing wrong with it, I mean honestly it doesnt infringe or hurt anyone. So like John Lennon said " What ever gets you through the night, its all right - its all right "

Take care my friend

[Grim Reaper 6]

7 minutes ago, the13bats said:

It doesnt get me through anything.

I was in orlando my dad was in a hostpital in jacksonville, he was slipping the loving Step family waited to the last moments to clue me in,

I was contacted that his kidneys failed and i should head out, im not perfect you know of my mental issues yet i go tripping and stumbling to the car for a 3 hr drive i get a call hed gone.

I go lay down, to deal with my loss my grief my way latet i was dogged and damned for not rushing there to look at my dead father, i was told as he went he told my step mother he would ne waiting at the pearly gates for her, so manwon if my dad is standing at some pearly gates i hope there is a bench to sit at, perhaps do a crossword puzzle as step mom is still around.

And if dad is at pearly gates then his afterlife is different to what you and others believe, oh dear, who is right?

No, i dont believe my dads conscience entity is loitering around some pearly gates somewhere  where?

What i do take some comfort in is dad no longer is hurting.

Bats I understand what your saying about how painful loss can be, I mean lets face it, when it comes to grief we are all lone. There is no one who can really help us through it, while others can gives us support they cant take away our pain. That's why I quoted John lennon, and that statement ( Whatever gets you through the night, It all right ) is very true. Some people have spirituality and they can use that to justify their loss, and when we are talking about loss no two people experience grief the exact same way. So like you said above you could get comfort from knowing your dad was no longer in pain, that is a justification you used to help you with grief and that's a wonderful thing. Whenever, the worst happens in our lives we all grasp for something to help us except what has happened. It doesnt matter, if its God, Reincarnation, or the person simple doesnt feel pain any longer, whatever, we find that works is what we should focus on. One thing I can say for certain is that everyone finds something, and it doesnt matter what they use to help them through their grief as long as it does help them nothing else matters at all.

Peace my brother

[psyche101]

On 5/2/2021 at 8:03 PM, the13bats said:

Its a bit grim to some i suppose but after all the time of my interest in such subjects LAD ( life after death ) certainly has not been proven except to those who believe which is exactly what it is belief.

I also from what ive seen the most ardent believers many times believe in other supernatural paranormal subjects, ive come to think from things ive heard and seen them say they simply fear death, its human, to hope for a LAD is expected in my mind.

in my case i believe my epiphany came around oddly, years back 2 hurricanes hit fl hard one after the other no power or water for a while, my house was a hovel and i was very ill.

I was scared, deeply scared of a lot of things and it came to me that what i feared like the weather i couldnt do a thing about and i was too sick to do anything but hunker in, i now view death like that with an strange comfort.

I cant say i "fear" death perhaps a bit scared thats the end but not terrified, ive seen examples of things sherapy has posted on here, my 89 yo dad was worn out, tired, felt horrible in pain and knew it wasnt getting better so sure he welcomed anything over that, he was happy to rest.

He lived a great life and he was ready to shuffle off this mortal coil, im sure not ready to pass but i am not dodging it or trying to sugar coat it with unproven claims biased on fears.

 

If others need that to get through I can get that. It's not for me but where it all goes wrong is when people start telling the takes as if a truth rather than the hopeful anecdote it actually is. 

I'm not out to crush old people finding a way to ward of fear. But I do take issue with the likes of Eben Alexander and the fraud of a doctor being touted here. Lying for profit and fame. And these jokers big only lap it up, but spend numerous hours reading anecdotes to be experts on NDE stories but would put over a minute and a half into the very real science that refutes the afterlife myth soundly. 

NDE experts are only experts in BS. Very few even know the basics of physics that straight up knock those claims out of the park. 

[psyche101]

On 5/3/2021 at 3:09 AM, preacherman76 said:

I think it’s strange the science and no proof guys can’t see NDE’s for the valuable information it is. Not to say it proves life after death, but there are more than enough experiences to search for patterns and apply mathematical probabilities. These are not just stories. A story would be me telling you about the 28 inch trout I caught this morning with no pictures. 

I think your easily impressed when you hear what you want to hear. 

On 5/3/2021 at 3:09 AM, preacherman76 said:

These are people who have been by every medical standard, clinically dead, coming back and telling similar experiences as millions of others who experienced the same. All through history right up till now. There is more than enough information to build a solid theory. To sit here and pretend this is all just faith based nonsense is ridiculous. 

Name one that was actually proven dead. I hear this claim a lot when it's not true. 

[psyche101]

16 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

My belief in the afterlife comes from multiple types of evidence and not just the NDE. Such as Afterlife Evidence. Anyway, I'm sure you will call all the different types of evidence 'no evidence'. As for me, I think the cumulative evidence for an afterlife is overwhelming and above 99% on the Papameter.

Your belief is driven by a troll pump. The more ridiculous a claim the stronger you support it.

You have no credibility. Repetition on the claimed scales would have to produce evidence. That they have not only illustrates that the afterlife myth had to be incorrect.

Your meter is childish and stupid.

[psyche101]

7 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Awesome link. Thanks for posting it 

What the hell are you talking about? Semantics jumbled on legal speak? 

It's utter crap!!!!!

You don't know the physics but you will do these mental gymnastics to self validate. I don't get people like you at all. Never will.

[the13bats]

26 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

If others need that to get through I can get that. It's not for me but where it all goes wrong is when people start telling the takes as if a truth rather than the hopeful anecdote it actually is. 

I'm not out to crush old people finding a way to ward of fear. But I do take issue with the likes of Eben Alexander and the fraud of a doctor being touted here. Lying for profit and fame. And these jokers big only lap it up, but spend numerous hours reading anecdotes to be experts on NDE stories but would put over a minute and a half into the very real science that refutes the afterlife myth soundly. 

NDE experts are only experts in BS. Very few even know the basics of physics that straight up knock those claims out of the park. 

I came here for the UMs and tried to and still try to avoid religious topics as it is the only comfort some people have,

I get dragged into a few NDE and AL threads i guess because i just like to call out narcissists who think they have special gifts and try to be all condeseding to anyone who diesnt praise them,  yet never prove their claims and when asked to they hide or go ad hominem.

24 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I think your easily impressed when you hear what you want to hear. 

Name one that was actually proven dead. I hear this claim a lot when it's not true. 

A lot of people do.

I have found that pretty much all dear believers in NDE/AL base their beliefs on weak unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence.

I have never been presented even one documented proven case where a person has zero brain function, zero respiratory, and zero circulatory and warm dead and after several minutes was revived, you know all George Romero night of living dead style which is what we are talking because the brain just can not handle lack of oxygen.

100% of alleged NDE cases are just that "near death" the people are not "dead" and what tge report is the brains reaction to severe shock trauma.

As far as afterlife goes oddly wherever i kindly ask for a persons best evidence that isnt a story they either go ad hominem or present Ouija boards and phychics, and i already replied to that tripe.

They have only their faith and beliefs i have no idea why thats not good enough if of course their arent suffering the conflicts of self doubt.

 

[preacherman76]

6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

What the hell are you talking about? Semantics jumbled on legal speak? 

It's utter crap!!!!!

You don't know the physics but you will do these mental gymnastics to self validate. I don't get people like you at all. Never will.

Stop pretending you read it lol. 
 

Nor will I ever understand folks like yourself. At least on these types of subjects. That’s ok though. It doesn’t make either one of us bad, or dumb or whatever. We are just wired differently. 
 

It’s nothing to get upset over. 

[papageorge1]

<see following post>

Edited May 4, 2021 by papageorge1

[papageorge1]

8 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Your belief is driven by a troll pump. The more ridiculous a claim the stronger you support it.

You have no credibility. Repetition on the claimed scales would have to produce evidence. That they have not only illustrates that the afterlife myth had to be incorrect.

Your meter is childish and stupid.

 

1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

Stop pretending you read it lol. 
 

Nor will I ever understand folks like yourself. At least on these types of subjects. That’s ok though. It doesn’t make either one of us bad, or dumb or whatever. We are just wired differently. 
 

It’s nothing to get upset over. 

I think I can understand types like psyche101.    At some point scientism (the promotion of science as the best or only objective means by which society should determine normative and epistemological values) becomes a fervent fundamentalist belief system. Fundamentalists will react erratically to challenging information as it rubs a deeper insecurity in their fundamentalism.

Science was to smugly explain away all religious and superstitious thinking. Now when it appears there is some truth in this 'spiritual' stuff and that science is such a long way from understanding it, it is met with irrational anger and even name-calling. 

Science is a great thing, scientism is bad.

[docyabut2]

What about signs from the dead.  I had three signs from my passed dad and two signs from by passed husband.