My Grandfather's NDE

[preacherman76]

4 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Here.

Probably, but I gotta ask, so what?? Have you really become so ridged that you cant even let someone who is clearly grieving have that moment?? 
 

Is the actual cause, whatever  that may be, really important in that moment? Make sure you don’t lose your humanity in your need to support your beliefs. Just my 2 cents. 

[ChrLzs]

It seems some folks have forgotten where they are, namely at a site designed to explain 'mysteries' so as to find those that are .. actually mysteries.

Why would it surprise them to see people trying to get to the truth?  Those who are secure in their beliefs and comforted by them in times of grief should probably pick a different type of forum, don't you think?

The thing is, you cannot claim that all of this is always harmless and comforting - there are those who would, and do, profit from things like warm and cold reading, or seminars and books, or evangelical events, psychic healing, .. the list goes on and on.  Me, I don't like people who profit from cheating and misinformation...

If someone is here, then I don't think it's a long shot to suggest they are likely curious if their particular event has an earthly explanation... or is instead a genuine unexplained mystery.

 

Or is it just coincidence that is what the site is called... ?     ... ...  I don't think so... 

[XenoFish]

2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Probably, but I gotta ask, so what?? Have you really become so ridged that you cant even let someone who is clearly grieving have that moment?? 
 

Is the actual cause, whatever  that may be, really important in that moment? Make sure you don’t lose your humanity in your need to support your beliefs. Just my 2 cents. 

I saw my grandfather after he was buried. The combination of grief and my desire to see him again caused it. Our emotions and beliefa can shift our perception of reality. 

[ChrLzs]

2 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

I saw my grandfather after he was buried. The combination of grief and my desire to see him again caused it. Our emotions and beliefa can shift our perception of reality. 

And allow me to be a devil's advocate and ask...  Why do we not value THAT?  The fact that our emotions are so strong that we manifest the event through the power of the mind?  Is that not good enough, not special enough?

To quote my favourite philosopher, Tim Minchin:

Isn't this enough?  Just this world?

Just this beautiful, complex, wonderfully unfathomable, natural world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention that we have to
Diminish it with the invention of cheap, man-made myths and monsters?

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

And allow me to be a devil's advocate and ask...  Why do we not value THAT?  The fact that our emotions are so strong that we manifest the event through the power of the mind?  Is that not good enough, not special enough?

To quote my favourite philosopher, Tim Minchin:

Isn't this enough?  Just this world?

Just this beautiful, complex, wonderfully unfathomable, natural world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention that we have to
Diminish it with the invention of cheap, man-made myths and monsters?

If it allows someone to move forward after a loss it should be valued. The thing is to some, it has to be paranormal. Just a way of probably subconsciously validating an afterlife. 

[preacherman76]

5 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

It seems some folks have forgotten where they are, namely at a site designed to explain 'mysteries' so as to find those that are .. actually mysteries.

Why would it surprise them to see people trying to get to the truth?  Those who are secure in their beliefs and comforted by them in times of grief should probably pick a different type of forum, don't you think?

The thing is, you cannot claim that all of this is always harmless and comforting - there are those who would, and do, profit from things like warm and cold reading, or seminars and books, or evangelical events, psychic healing, .. the list goes on and on.  Me, I don't like people who profit from cheating and misinformation...

I was speaking about one very specific post. Not the whole thread. No one was trying to make any money.

 

5 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

If someone is here, then I don't think it's a long shot to suggest they are likely curious if their particular event has an earthly explanation... or is instead a genuine unexplained mystery.

Some times. Other times maybe they just want to share an experience and talk with folks who have had similar. There is plenty of room for us all. 

5 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

 

Or is it just coincidence that is what the site is called... ?     ... ...  I don't think so... 

The site is not called find me a earthly explanation for my unexplained mystery lol. These conversations often go in any number of directions. It’s all good. 

[preacherman76]

5 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

And allow me to be a devil's advocate and ask...  Why do we not value THAT?  The fact that our emotions are so strong that we manifest the event through the power of the mind?  Is that not good enough, not special enough?

To quote my favourite philosopher, Tim Minchin:

Isn't this enough?  Just this world?

Just this beautiful, complex, wonderfully unfathomable, natural world?
How does it so fail to hold our attention that we have to
Diminish it with the invention of cheap, man-made myths and monsters?

I don’t think it has anything to do with it being enough. It’s a matter of perception. Myself I don’t buy into a person’s ability to cause a hallucination where they see something or someone that looks as real as anything they have ever seen because of an emotional state. At the very least I can’t relate. I’ve been in all kinds of emotional states in my lifetime. I’ve never hallucinated anything. 
 

For me that explanation just doesn’t make sense. Not to say I’m right about that. I just don’t know. Now let’s say X really did see his grandfather, I don’t understand why anyone would think that makes anyone special. I guess with some rare fly by posters it can come across that way, but not for us normies. I don’t see anyone who is here regularly proclaiming themselves to be special. 

[preacherman76]

5 hours ago, Xeno-Fish said:

I saw my grandfather after he was buried. The combination of grief and my desire to see him again caused it. Our emotions and beliefa can shift our perception of reality. 

Shifting perception is one thing. Causing one to see things that are not there is another. I don’t know if you actually saw your grandfather, or if you are right and it was some sort of hallucination. I guess belief can work both ways. 

[XenoFish]

4 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Shifting perception is one thing. Causing one to see things that are not there is another. I don’t know if you actually saw your grandfather, or if you are right and it was some sort of hallucination. I guess belief can work both ways. 

We're not always in control of how we see things, even what we see. 

[preacherman76]

41 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

We're not always in control of how we see things, even what we see. 

Definitely not what we see. 
 

I just read a little bit on hallucinations brought on by grief. Very interesting stuff. Unfortunately at least from what I’ve read there doesn’t seem to be a known cause, neurologically. Obviously that can be difficult to study. 
 

This again though seems to be another example of the experts describing something, then calling it a hallucination with no actual reason to call it so other than the implications of it not being one. 
 

Anyhow thanks for pointing to the subject. I’d like to explore it further. 

[XenoFish]

Our entire perception of the world around us is basically a hallucination. One created and interpretated by our senses. The blue I see, might not match your blue. In fact it might not even be blue at all. 

[psyche101]

17 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Probably, but I gotta ask, so what?? Have you really become so ridged that you cant even let someone who is clearly grieving have that moment?? 

Someone who is constantly posting nonsense is politely called out. That's all there was too it. Don't exaggerate. 

17 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Is the actual cause, whatever  that may be, really important in that moment? Make sure you don’t lose your humanity in your need to support your beliefs. Just my 2 cents. 

My humanity is fine. I'm not propagating untruths and dragging others down with my insecurities.

[the13bats]

12 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I don’t think it has anything to do with it being enough. It’s a matter of perception. Myself I don’t buy into a person’s ability to cause a hallucination where they see something or someone that looks as real as anything they have ever seen because of an emotional state. At the very least I can’t relate. I’ve been in all kinds of emotional states in my lifetime. I’ve never hallucinated anything. 
 

For me that explanation just doesn’t make sense. Not to say I’m right about that. I just don’t know. Now let’s say X really did see his grandfather, I don’t understand why anyone would think that makes anyone special. I guess with some rare fly by posters it can come across that way, but not for us normies. I don’t see anyone who is here regularly proclaiming themselves to be special. 

It didnt make sense to you meditation and or weed will give me a panic attack but it doesnt care what you think it does that to me, open your mind to other possibilities not just ones you agree with.

[preacherman76]

11 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Someone who is constantly posting nonsense is politely called out. That's all there was too it. Don't exaggerate. 

I didn't post it, assuming you are talking about me and your obsession to constantly personally attack me cause I say things that give you the feelz. 

 

Quote

My humanity is fine. I'm not propagating untruths and dragging others down with my insecurities.

You are the one here who cant stand the thought of others believing a afterlife may be possible. I'm perfectly fine with how any of us feel about it. Cause I like everyone here, really just don't know. You are the one demanding everyone here think like you, to the point of anger and insults. Talk about "dragging others down with my insecurity" 

Who has been "dragged down" by anything I've said? If anything through similar experiences I've in a small way helped someone deal with a very difficult situation. You are the one who crapped on it. 

Edited May 6, 2021 by preacherman76

[preacherman76]

8 hours ago, the13bats said:

It didnt make sense to you meditation and or weed will give me a panic attack but it doesnt care what you think it does that to me, open your mind to other possibilities not just ones you agree with.

I would never tell you to smoke weed, so I have no idea where that came from.

Meditation doesn't give people panic attacks. The literature is more than clear that it is basically the number one natural means to help with such things. I offered that advice, and when you rejected it, I didn't push you on it at all. So WTH are you talking about?

Edit to add- and WTH does any of that have to do with the post you quoted?

Edited May 6, 2021 by preacherman76

[the13bats]

17 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I would never tell you to smoke weed, so I have no idea where that came from.

Meditation doesn't give people panic attacks. The literature is more than clear that it is basically the number one natural means to help with such things. I offered that advice, and when you rejected it, I didn't push you on it at all. So WTH are you talking about?

Edit to add- and WTH does any of that have to do with the post you quoted?

Relax its not personal and no need to get so emotional, you have a style of being snide if a person has even an opinion that doesnt match yours this reply to me proves that,

Weeks back in some thread i posted meditation and or weed for that matter does give me panic you scoffed in disbelief, the point i made was just because you do not share the opinion or in this case do not understand something doesnt mean its not a fact, i suggested you open your mind to other possibilities, yes, meditation has cased me panic attacks.

I will ignore you again if you get so emotionally charged over it.

[preacherman76]

1 hour ago, the13bats said:

Relax its not personal and no need to get so emotional, you have a style of being snide if a person has even an opinion that doesnt match yours this reply to me proves that,

Weeks back in some thread i posted meditation and or weed for that matter does give me panic you scoffed in disbelief, the point i made was just because you do not share the opinion or in this case do not understand something doesnt mean its not a fact, i suggested you open your mind to other possibilities, yes, meditation has cased me panic attacks.

I will ignore you again if you get so emotionally charged over it.

I'm not emotional. I'm confused. I don't smoke weed, nor would I ever advocate anyone does. Especially someone who suffers panic attacks. I would never scoff at that. I've seen it first hand. And you obviously are not following this thread very well. I'm the only one here saying there is enough room for everyone's opinion. I'm the one catching the snide remarks, not handing them out. 

 

BTW I don't care what you do, so threatening to ignore me is a waste of time. If you are going to do it than just do it. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Unless you directly quote me, I don't respond to anything you say anyway.  

[XenoFish]

Thanks for reminding me why I'm taking a less active role on here. 

Believe whatever you wish, so long as no one is being harmed, who really cares. 

I don't see how believing in a possible paranormal experience is harmful. Just because you don't have them and can't shift your reality tunnel enough to just "listen" to another, that's on you. 

Anyways, I'm bored. Have a good day.

[preacherman76]

36 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

Thanks for reminding me why I'm taking a less active role on here. 

Believe whatever you wish, so long as no one is being harmed, who really cares. 

I don't see how believing in a possible paranormal experience is harmful. Just because you don't have them and can't shift your reality tunnel enough to just "listen" to another, that's on you. 

Anyways, I'm bored. Have a good day.

I feel ya. I keep telling myself to spend less time here, and for some reason I just keep coming back. 

[XenoFish]

2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

I feel ya. I keep telling myself to spend less time here, and for some reason I just keep coming back. 

I'm just bored of the same arguments and dogmatic views. Guess I've gotten intellectually lazy. 

[the13bats]

All the ad hominem,  reality tunnels,  and dogma spewing are fine, in context of the thread NDE is real, its the brains reaction to shock trauma.

As far as claims of afterlife evidence doesnt support it just like with claims of paranormal it very well may be real but the only evidence is anecdotal so it doesnt matter to me if someone wants to believe from faith its just not what i do they have the problems with me i have no problems with them.

Its easy to avoid things you find are boring wastes of time here ill show you.

Edited May 7, 2021 by the13bats

[preacherman76]

Neurological trauma while the brain is dying is no longer the consensus for explaining many NDE’s. Often while the experience is happening there is zero brain activity. If you are still playing that card you are way behind in medical theories. 
 

Ive listen to many doctors explain that there is no way many of these patients were able to hear what they had, or seen what they did in the room while literally having no measurable brain activity. It has made a believer out of many of these doctors. 
 

If you are looking for the smoking gun case I believe her name is Pam Reynolds. Underwent a brain surgery to remove a very difficult tumor. In order to get to it they had to remove her blood and lower her body temperature. They blind folded her, and put head phones in her ears that made a constant clicking noise. They did that to measure her brain activity to make sure there was none. 
 

She knew conversations the doctor and nurse had. Was able to describe surgical instruments they used. Saw this all from the ceiling. This women was clinically dead, intentionally. Look her up. 

[XenoFish]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:17 PM, the13bats said:

All the ad hominem,  reality tunnels,  and dogma spewing are fine, in context of the thread NDE is real, its the brains reaction to shock trauma.

As far as claims of afterlife evidence doesnt support it just like with claims of paranormal it very well may be real but the only evidence is anecdotal so it doesnt matter to me if someone wants to believe from faith its just not what i do they have the problems with me i have no problems with them.

Its easy to avoid things you find are boring wastes of time here ill show you.

You can basically cut and paste every comment you make into any thread with a few minor changes. Wouldn't even change much. 

Eventually it's a waste of time repeating yourself. I think by now everyone understand that you don't believe insert thing here.

[XenoFish]

I find it tedious to even discuss much around here any more. The same song and dance. Same naysayers and believers. Same conversations about how wrong a point of view is.

I guess I finally realized that 90% of this stuff doesn't affect my life in any capacity. Plus I no longer have a mood to rage against someone beliefs. It's so pointless and honestly a waste of time. 

People either want answers or not. And I'm just too tired to care any longer.

[the13bats]

1 hour ago, Xeno-Fish said:

You can basically cut and paste every comment you make into any thread with a few minor changes. Wouldn't even change much. 

Eventually it's a waste of time repeating yourself. I think by now everyone understand that you don't believe insert thing here.

And the very same applies to you, except i stay steady you dont even do that.

For a top contributor you sure cry alot about how bored you are here and how pointless you find most posting,

Isnt it about time for one of your for attention grabbing threats of tantruming off the forum for a while?