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Manwon Lender

The Origin of the Sumerians

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seasmith
4 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I tried to keep this thread on track with papers written on subjects that address the topic of the theories on the Sumerian Origin. You unknowingly or intentionally slip this nonsense concerning Lizard Humanoids in to the mix, and you also brought up the topic of an Elder Race. I don't agree with you on the subject, and I have no idea why you thought it should be added to an otherwise reasonable thread. Whatever, your motive was I think we are all past that now, so let's move on.:yes:

Oh and by the way Seasmith this ones for you!:D

 

E277AF14-EC16-4E20-B789-E0B05EE317D3-1478-000001F8F2E622D3.gif

 

cfb brought in the "Lizard Humanoids" theory , I brought in images of Ubaidian idols.
Hanslune brought in the "Elder RACE", I introduced you to Andrew Collin's term "Elder Culture".

 

The Ubaid 'question' preceeds your "Sumerian Question", because the Ubaids were the people there Before the Sumerins rose to prominence in the area. That is very well attested.
So either the Ubaids became the Sumerians, or the Sumerians displaced and assimilated the Ubaids.
Which is it pal, can you answer any questions, or is this just a dating site for you ?

 

Money lender, you are obviously not a serious researcher or person,
so I leave you to your childish cartoons and endless chit-chat.

 

Read over this thread and notice how personally insecure you come across, I feel for you...

 

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Hanslune
16 minutes ago, seasmith said:

 

cfb brought in the "Lizard Humanoids" theory , I brought in images of Ubaidian idols.
Hanslune brought in the "Elder RACE", I introduced you to Andrew Collin's term "Elder Culture".

 

The Ubaid 'question' preceeds your "Sumerian Question", because the Ubaids were the people there Before the Sumerins rose to prominence in the area. That is very well attested.
So either the Ubaids became the Sumerians, or the Sumerians displaced and assimilated the Ubaids.
Which is it pal, can you answer any questions, or is this just a dating site for you ?

 

Money lender, you are obviously not a serious researcher or person,
so I leave you to your childish cartoons and endless chit-chat.

 

Read over this thread and notice how personally insecure you come across, I feel for you...

 

The Sumerians appear to have overlaid themselves over the Ubaidian perhaps in the same way the Norman French did  with the "British", and were slowly transformed into a single society. The details of this are obscure partially because skeletons don't survive well in the acidic soil of the TE basin (we cannot easily ascertain who was who. etc..

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CuriousEye
Posted (edited)
On 4/25/2021 at 4:04 AM, Manwon Lender said:

This has been highly debated subject for many years, and finally I found a Peer Reviewed Paper that appears to answer this question. I would like some input from anyone who has some knowledge of this subject or who wishes to discuss this subject further. Since the Sumerians were one of the earliest Civilizations or the oldest Civilization depending upon how you define the word Civilization their original homeland is for me is a very important topic. According to what I read in the Peer reviewed papers and Journals below I believe that their true origin has finally been identified.

Who were the Sumerians? Where did they originate? For those who are not familiar with this remarkable, resourceful and intelligent people, who not only invented writing but also established the true mythological foundations of all main religions of the world, simply put, they taught us almost everything. Four different points regarding the current known archeological evidence are evaluated separately, and the Sumerians’ unique and strongly sacred mythological beliefs related to the lapis lazuli stone and the myth’s origin are analyzed.  The only possible and provable location of their original homeland, “based on the analysis” is; between the Caspian Sea and the Hindu Kush and Kopet Mountains, which is in Turkmenistan. This analysis and conclusion are based on “multiple independent factors”: current archeological excavations, the uniqueness of metamorphic lapis lazuli as a stone and over 6000 years of lapis lazuli mining at a fixed location (absolutely necessary requirements for the origin of strong lapis mythology) and current credible biogeographic DNA evidence and the distribution of R1b haplogroup of “Arbins”, as recently described by Dr. Anatole A. Klyosov. The Sumerians initial migration presumably began with a persistent drought in their original homeland, that eventually forced them to abandon their home migrate and resettle in the southern fertile lands of the Middle East between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers and eventually further south near the banks of Nile River in north east Africa.

The Origin of Sumerians ——Re-Evaluation Following Remarkable Excavations at Turkmenistan Gonur Tepe and Other Sites

The Origin of Sumerians (scirp.org)

Gonur Depe (Turkmenistan) and its Role in the Middle Asian Interaction Sphere

Appropriating Innovations.indb (d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net)

µ-XRF Analysis of Trace Elements in Lapis Lazuli-Forming Minerals for a Provenance Study

CUP_MAM_1500015 526..533 (d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net)

Sumer was merely but a Bronze Age historical region and civilization that emerged some 4,800 years ago from a previous succession of early Chalcolithic and Early Bronze Age urban development phases in the history of prehistorical South Mesopotamia, and the earliest civilization thriving in the said latter region.

Their ancient native inhabitants descended from millennia of recurrent inter-ethnocultural mixings between the early Neolithic West Eurasian farmers along a succession of:

  • first Proto Afro-Asiatic speaking, Neolithic technology-crafting agropastoralists native from the regions of Mesolithic Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia via Faiyum and the Levant, and foremost originating from the regions of the Abyssinian Highlands and Central Africa (the protohistoric civilizer-race of tall-bodied, Gigantism-prone, hyperdolicocephalic/elongated-cranial, so called Homo Paracas-bred, both spiritually and technologically hyper-advanced, unnaturally long-lived and presumably demi-immortal Æthiopian-descended colonists that would remains in ancient Egyptian both historiography and mythology known under the denomination of the mythical Anu tribe; and whose rival Ra or Anu-descended archaic kindred "Royal Houses" of Min or Aker or Harsiesis or An-Hur/Apedemek/Maahes (Mehrem/Maher or Mithra in Aksumite and ancient Arabian religions) , Keb/Geb, earthly Thoth, Neith, Opet, and later the descent branchs of the Shemsu Sutekh/Set and Shemsu Hor/Horus/Hermes Trismegistus, partly defined in such unspeakable measures all aspects of the ancient world's collective unconsciousness/noosphere/Jungian Tree of Life, and oecumenia; and could have likely too inspired the myth about the earthly gods or Rephim-descended Nephim and Anakim in Canaanite and Phoenician religions, the Biblical Benei Elohim or Iyrin or Rephaim-descended Nephilim and Anakim in Abrahamic religions, the kindred Anakim race of Benu Jurhum/Gorrhamites (Havilaites from the Arabian banks of the Red Sea and tall-bodied Himyarites/Homerites of central-west Arabia) and some fewer of the Jinn-descended mythical tribes in Islamic lore, the Titans and some of the Olympians, Gigantes and heroes of Greek mythology, then various deities (mahadevas, devas, asuras, dakinis, semi-peris/semi-asparas, etcetera) and heroes from Dravidian and Indo-Aryan religions, the Imanujelas or Tembuzis/Ba-Tembuzis in the African Great Lakes lores, the early Bena ya Mungu in the Ngala lore of Central Africa, the early progenitors of the Amazulus in the Nguni lore of Southern Africa, etcetera) who might have later inspire the myths about the earthly civilizing races of early Annunakis and Apkallus ;
  • the Levantine Natufians, themselves issued from recurrent mixings between Proto Afro Asiatics, a North African subgroup of Super-Tropical Saharans genetically akin to the modern-day Nilotes, Iberomaurusians from Northern Africa, and Ancient West Eurasians with Harifian hunter-gatherers from the Mesolithic era;
  • the Neolithic Anatolian Farmer-descended Chalcolithic Ubaid Culture (which descend itself from Levantine Natufians mixed up with South Caucasian Farmers) whose Anu-descended nobility brought advanced Neolithic technology and urban structure as well as newer states of social stratification and later kingship in South Mesopotamia, and might have been the inspiration behind the later procession of Anunnaki colonists descending into Sumer in myths about the Postdiluvian Age;
  • some hypothetical lasting Early Bronze Age Proto Semitic influence brought from the Arabian Peninsula and the Red Sea;
  • then, at last both the East Semitic speaking Akkadians from Northern Mesopotamia, and West Semitic speaking Eblaites from the Northern Levant, with likely a continuous inter-cultural exchanges back-and-forth from the older expansionist cultures of Ta-Sety and Pharaonic Egypt/Ta-Mery to south Mesopotamia.

They spoke a now-extinct language, heavily implied as much as their neighboring rival Elamite speakers, to carry some strong linguistic affinities with Dravidian languages, and stated themselves from having, much like the ancient Hamito-Semitic breeds of Canaanites and Phoenicians or the Hamitic branch of Ægyptians, a predominant inclination for a dark brown-reddish skin colour-- although light eyes and light brown skin could prevails among the elites too, thanks to the light skin gene bore by the Neolithic Anatolian Farmers and their descendants.

 

Simple. End of the story. I don't know why Westerners are so obssessed about Mesopotamia. It reminds me a lot about the Hoteps, Hebrew Vegan Wokes and Shabbaz Scientologists.

Edited by CuriousEye
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CuriousEye
On 6/14/2021 at 1:59 PM, Abramelin said:

A spear dripping water?

With a bit of creative thinking I can come up with a flaming meteor (spear) impacting into the shallow western Pacific, near China, hitting the seafloor causing volcanic eruptions, and creating proto-Japan.

But that's just me of course.

:P

Edited to add:

Of course no Japanese were present during the formation of Japan. But some may have seen an impacting meteor causing earthquakes and rising new volcanos in the Ring of Fire, and by that spectacle assumed that that's how their country came into existence.

Some people in this forum suffers of idealizing bankruptcy, creative intelligence wise.

As I said once in a previous topic, there has a large gap between healthy skepticism and gadfly intellectual Onanism.

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jmccr8
9 hours ago, CuriousEye said:

first Proto Afro-Asiatic speaking, Neolithic technology-crafting agropastoralists native from the regions of Mesolithic Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia via Faiyum and the Levant, and foremost originating from the regions of the Abyssinian Highlands and Central Africa (the protohistoric civilizer-race of tall-bodied, Gigantism-prone, hyperdolicocephalic/elongated-cranial, so called Homo Paracas-bred, both spiritually and technologically hyper-advanced, unnaturally long-lived and presumably demi-immortal Æthiopian-descended colonists that would remains in ancient Egyptian both historiography and mythology known under the denomination of the mythical Anu tribe; and whose rival Ra or Anu-descended archaic kindred "Royal Houses" of Min or Aker or Harsiesis or An-Hur/Apedemek/Maahes (Mehrem/Maher or Mithra in Aksumite and ancient Arabian religions) , Keb/Geb, earthly Thoth, Neith, Opet, and later the descent branchs of the Shemsu Sutekh/Set and Shemsu Hor/Horus/Hermes Trismegistus, partly defined in such unspeakable measures all aspects of the ancient world's collective unconsciousness/noosphere/Jungian Tree of Life, and oecumenia; and could have likely too inspired the myth about the earthly gods or Rephim-descended Nephim and Anakim in Canaanite and Phoenician religions, the Biblical Benei Elohim or Iyrin or Rephaim-descended Nephilim and Anakim in Abrahamic religions, the kindred Anakim race of Benu Jurhum/Gorrhamites (Havilaites from the Arabian banks of the Red Sea and tall-bodied Himyarites/Homerites of central-west Arabia) and some fewer of the Jinn-descended mythical tribes in Islamic lore, the Titans and some of the Olympians, Gigantes and heroes of Greek mythology, then various deities (mahadevas, devas, asuras, dakinis, semi-peris/semi-asparas, etcetera) and heroes from Dravidian and Indo-Aryan religions, the Imanujelas or Tembuzis/Ba-Tembuzis in the African Great Lakes lores, the early Bena ya Mungu in the Ngala lore of Central Africa, the early progenitors of the Amazulus in the Nguni lore of Southern Africa, etcetera) who might have later inspire the myths about the earthly civilizing races of early Annunakis and Apkallus 

Got any links to reference to

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Hanslune
On 7/22/2021 at 12:11 PM, CuriousEye said:

Simple. End of the story. I don't know why Westerners are so obssessed about Mesopotamia. It reminds me a lot about the Hoteps, Hebrew Vegan Wokes and Shabbaz Scientologists.

..okay, so what SHOULD 'we' be 'obsessed' with? I wonder because Mesopotamia is not remotely as 'popular' in the west as is Egypt so not sure why  you said that.

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Harte
On 7/22/2021 at 2:11 PM, CuriousEye said:

 the protohistoric civilizer-race of tall-bodied, Gigantism-prone, hyperdolicocephalic/elongated-cranial, so called Homo Paracas

tenor.gif?itemid=15970871

Harte

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Harte
15 hours ago, Hanslune said:

..okay, so what SHOULD 'we' be 'obsessed' with? I wonder because Mesopotamia is not remotely as 'popular' in the west as is Egypt so not sure why  you said that.

Apparently "Homo Paracas."

Harte

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Hanslune
43 minutes ago, Harte said:

Apparently "Homo Paracas."

Harte

What those fat headed nuts? I think not! Folks with heads shaped like cashews should not be trusted.

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CuriousEye
Posted (edited)
On 7/24/2021 at 7:46 AM, Harte said:

tenor.gif?itemid=15970871

Harte

I assume that you are confusing skepticism with "complete lack of regard to nuance in written form" .

I mean... what else do you need to figure out about the lexicological use of the terms "myths" , "legends" and "so-called" to get the evidence that I am referencing from an euhemerist point of view about the hypothetical possibility of a prehistoric group whose tall stature, culture, prowess, elongated heads (whether designed by ritualistically cosmetic means or whatever physiological mutation they had) and precocious agricultural Neolithic technology may obviously have left a deep-seated imprint onto the minds of some impressionable Stone Age hunting gathering and early Neolithic groups, and thus plausibly inspiring the recurrent mythography about gigantic demigods/angels and civilization builders in both Africa and various Eurasian societies, to get that this commentary has never meant to be taken on the first degree, aside a functional cognitive loci and an average I.Q. ??
 

That is not even a fringe science theory: there has a massive load of written record all over the globe, made by various scholarly and religious groups from different time periods and civilizations in History: ancient Greeks, Phoenicians, Romans, ancient Egyptians, medieval Abyssinians, Persians, Hindus, the Chinese, a few Western scholars from the Age of Enlightenment, some Jewish and Christian theology circles, various sub-Saharan African scholars and oral lore practitioners alike, then at last even our ow postmodern Western academic status quo, who all evoked or still evokes the probability that some untold millennia, some group/s of ancient anatomically modern Humans had clashed or been subjugated by a relatively advanced human population group, for over the past 2,500 years!

The only nuance is that they cannot decide whether these people were simply prehistoric humans of a superior intellect and a genetic inclination toward gigantism, the remnants of hybrid ancient hominids possessing such virtues prior they wound up getting assimilated into the early Homo Sapiens gene pool (like it happened to so many of the other lasting hominoid genus after we spreaded like grass across the whole Eufrasian landmass) , or whether the recurrent statement in myths and legends about them being hyper-evolved alter-human beings of part non-human hybrid ancestry, was more likely.

We can only surmise about three factors: 1) their ethnogenetic background lifeline as a genotype of their own had been ancient enough, so that an 40,000-years-old offshoot of their population native from Minor Asia and South Caucasus went east along the Eurasian migratory flux of other modern human groups, and that the same branch in matter wounded up migrating in the Americas wherein some latter Pre-Columbian remnants of their group formed elite classes amid a fewer indigenous American societies too whilst still retaining both the gigantism and typical elongated craniums, even as late as some 2,000 years before our days ; 2) They were certainly not as high as a sequoia tree or mountain, but seemed at least to have heights of a mean average of 6-7 feet tall (a trait still observed among some Cushitic and Nilo-Cushitic ethnic groups such as the Rwandan Watutsis, Gallas/Oromos, Nuer, Dinkas, Masaais and others to this day) with some notable more ancient effed-up cases of a mean average of 7-12 feet tall instead... quite life-threatening from an evolutionary standpoint I got to admit, as modern human physiology has never been meant to withstand such proportions-- but again, we are talking about a population who used to be so grotesquely taller on a mean average than even the tallest human groups at any time than even our prehistoric and ancient ancestors concluded, based upon whatever epistemological knowledge they already have about human anatomy and the laws of physics at these time periods and regions, that it was impossible they might be fully human/Homo Sapiens ; and 3) at some point of time prior the invention of writing, the said group self-styled themselves as the ruling classes of the societies they built their might and influence upon. Had their both cultural traits, sociopolitical views and sets of beliefs bleeding within their sphere/s of influences, and later became deified by the lesser classes-- perhaps even they were actually the ones who begun to conceptualize the notion of deification, to begin with!

 

You folks here are even too thick to even get some basic notions in regard to conventional History, Archeology, Religion and mythology. So pitifully American.

6c09fff23fd6eba97f216786f569ab26.gif

Edited by CuriousEye

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jmccr8
On 7/22/2021 at 1:11 PM, CuriousEye said:

Sumer was merely but a Bronze Age historical region and civilization that emerged some 4,800 years ago from a previous succession of early Chalcolithic and Early Bronze Age urban development phases in the history of prehistorical South Mesopotamia, and the earliest civilization thriving in the said latter region.

Their ancient native inhabitants descended from millennia of recurrent inter-ethnocultural mixings between the early Neolithic West Eurasian farmers along a succession of:

  • first Proto Afro-Asiatic speaking, Neolithic technology-crafting agropastoralists native from the regions of Mesolithic Upper Egypt and Lower Nubia via Faiyum and the Levant, and foremost originating from the regions of the Abyssinian Highlands and Central Africa (the protohistoric civilizer-race of tall-bodied, Gigantism-prone, hyperdolicocephalic/elongated-cranial, so called Homo Paracas-bred, both spiritually and technologically hyper-advanced, unnaturally long-lived and presumably demi-immortal Æthiopian-descended colonists that would remains in ancient Egyptian both historiography and mythology known under the denomination of the mythical Anu tribe; and whose rival Ra or Anu-descended archaic kindred "Royal Houses" of Min or Aker or Harsiesis or An-Hur/Apedemek/Maahes (Mehrem/Maher or Mithra in Aksumite and ancient Arabian religions) , Keb/Geb, earthly Thoth, Neith, Opet, and later the descent branchs of the Shemsu Sutekh/Set and Shemsu Hor/Horus/Hermes Trismegistus, partly defined in such unspeakable measures all aspects of the ancient world's collective unconsciousness/noosphere/Jungian Tree of Life, and oecumenia; and could have likely too inspired the myth about the earthly gods or Rephim-descended Nephim and Anakim in Canaanite and Phoenician religions, the Biblical Benei Elohim or Iyrin or Rephaim-descended Nephilim and Anakim in Abrahamic religions, the kindred Anakim race of Benu Jurhum/Gorrhamites (Havilaites from the Arabian banks of the Red Sea and tall-bodied Himyarites/Homerites of central-west Arabia) and some fewer of the Jinn-descended mythical tribes in Islamic lore, the Titans and some of the Olympians, Gigantes and heroes of Greek mythology, then various deities (mahadevas, devas, asuras, dakinis, semi-peris/semi-asparas, etcetera) and heroes from Dravidian and Indo-Aryan religions, the Imanujelas or Tembuzis/Ba-Tembuzis in the African Great Lakes lores, the early Bena ya Mungu in the Ngala lore of Central Africa, the early progenitors of the Amazulus in the Nguni lore of Southern Africa, etcetera) who might have later inspire the myths about the earthly civilizing races of early Annunakis and Apkallus ;
  • the Levantine Natufians, themselves issued from recurrent mixings between Proto Afro Asiatics, a North African subgroup of Super-Tropical Saharans genetically akin to the modern-day Nilotes, Iberomaurusians from Northern Africa, and Ancient West Eurasians with Harifian hunter-gatherers from the Mesolithic era;
  • the Neolithic Anatolian Farmer-descended Chalcolithic Ubaid Culture (which descend itself from Levantine Natufians mixed up with South Caucasian Farmers) whose Anu-descended nobility brought advanced Neolithic technology and urban structure as well as newer states of social stratification and later kingship in South Mesopotamia, and might have been the inspiration behind the later procession of Anunnaki colonists descending into Sumer in myths about the Postdiluvian Age;
  • some hypothetical lasting Early Bronze Age Proto Semitic influence brought from the Arabian Peninsula and the Red Sea;
  • then, at last both the East Semitic speaking Akkadians from Northern Mesopotamia, and West Semitic speaking Eblaites from the Northern Levant, with likely a continuous inter-cultural exchanges back-and-forth from the older expansionist cultures of Ta-Sety and Pharaonic Egypt/Ta-Mery to south Mesopotamia.

They spoke a now-extinct language, heavily implied as much as their neighboring rival Elamite speakers, to carry some strong linguistic affinities with Dravidian languages, and stated themselves from having, much like the ancient Hamito-Semitic breeds of Canaanites and Phoenicians or the Hamitic branch of Ægyptians, a predominant inclination for a dark brown-reddish skin colour-- although light eyes and light brown skin could prevails among the elites too, thanks to the light skin gene bore by the Neolithic Anatolian Farmers and their descendants.

 

Simple. End of the story. I don't know why Westerners are so obssessed about Mesopotamia. It reminds me a lot about the Hoteps, Hebrew Vegan Wokes and Shabbaz Scientologists.

Hi Curious

you might want to read through some of these links. There is a video called the "Green Sahara" from National Geographics that Ihad posted several years ago and will see if I can find it for you.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080815101317.htm

Stone Age Graveyard Reveals Lifestyles Of A 'Green Sahara'

Date:
August 15, 2008
Source:
National Geographic Society
Summary:
The largest Stone Age graveyard found in the Sahara, which provides an unparalleled record of life when the region was green, has been discovered in Niger by National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence and University of Chicago Professor Paul Sereno, whose team first happened on the site during a dinosaur-hunting expedition.
https://www.nigerheritage.org/archaeology

Archaeology of the Green Sahara

Discovery and Excavation

In 2000 while prospecting for dinosaurs, a team led by Prof. Paul Sereno discovered an exceptional archaeological site called Gobero, preserving an unprecedented 5,000 years of habitation by peoples living in the latter part of the African Humid Period, from ~14,000-5,500 years ago. The site preserves an exceptional record of human burials, artifacts and fauna, providing the best window into life in the “Green Sahara,” a period of cultural diversification among lakeside inhabitants during the Early and Mid Holocene (~10,000 to 5,000 years ago).

Gobero was explored, sampled, mapped and excavated on six expeditions to Niger (2003, 2005, 2011, 2012, 2018, 2019), during which approximately 100 burials were excavated and more than 1,000 artifacts and key specimens of Gobero’s fauna and flora were collected. More than 100 radiometric dates anchor Gobero’s astounding record —some 5,000 years of near continuous occupation near shallow lakes rich in fish and attractive to wildlife (Sereno et al., 2008).

sahara-aerial-square.jpgAerial view of the Gobero site

Gobero’s Central Mysteries

Most Saharan archaeological sites record a single short-lived occupation lasting decades or perhaps a century or two, before changing conditions force the inhabitants to move. No other site approaches the longevity of Gobero, some 5,000 years. That duration, that resiliency in the middle of the Earth’s greatest desert, ranks as one of it’s greatest mysteries. How and why?

The duration also gives rise to a second great mystery. At Gobero there are hundreds of burials, far more than any other site of comparable age, as well as thousands of artifacts and rock fragments from a very active stone tool industry. The site complex, then, was not just a longstanding cemetery but also a place of active habitation. Yet, only one disturbed burial has ever been excavated out of nearly 200. How is it possible to find burials-- sometimes in proximity and separated by thousands of years of time-- that are preserved as intact as the ancient day they were closed?

The answer to these mega-mysteries has taken years of field and laboratory research by scholars of many disciplines to unravel. Gobero’s ancient shallow lake, dubbed “Paleolake Gobero,” was supported by nearby groundwater gushers of freshwater, coming to the surface against a deep fault in the underlying dinosaur-age sandstones. Gobero’s steady water supply, thus, came from underground and was not dependent on rainfall.

The lake level at times flooded the gravesites and habitation areas, hardening and darkening the older skeletons, helping to preserve them. Longstanding lake levels, in turn, formed a hard rock in the root zone of reeds (called swamp ores) surrounding the occupied islands and peninsulas. This rock protected Gobero’s gravesites, otherwise buried in soft paleodune sand, through the millennia up to today.

dunes.jpgSaharan sand dunes

Spectacular Burials

More than a dozen Gobero burials were excavated intact to provide a detailed record of skeletal position, grave goods and associated fauna. This was accomplished with a field jacket technique modified from that we use for older fossils in rock. Once prepared in the lab, the skeletons were CT-scanned to create a complete digital record of burials from predynsatic time. These digital files could then be segmented and animated to unfold the skeletons without disturbing a single bone. In that way, we could understand how the dead were positioned in the more complicated burials and calculate such metrics as stature.

 
https://anthropology.net/2008/08/14/the-kiffian-tenerean-occupation-of-gobero-niger-perhaps-the-largest-collection-of-early-mid-holocene-people-in-africa/
 
 

This site has been called Gobero, after the local Tuareg name for the area. About 10,000 years ago (7700–6200 B.C.E.), Gobero was a much less arid environment than it is now. In fact, it was actually a rather humid lake side hometown of sorts for a group of hunter-fisher-gatherers who not only lived their but also buried their dead there. How do we know they were fishing? Well, remains of large nile perch and harpoons were found dating to this time period.

Of the 67 burials excavated, five of them date to an occupation span from 9,750 to 9,500 years ago. That’s 250 years or so. Looking at photos of the field site, it is hard to believe these prehistoric people got comfortable in Gobero. They began making pottery and ritually burying their dead. One of these guys, G3B8, is a 2 meter tall dude (that’s like 6 feet 6 inches!). He’s pictured below, buried rather utilitarian, with hands covering his mouth and crossed feet, just as he was found:

G3B8, a 6 foot 6 individual from Gobero, Nigeria G3B8, a 6 foot 6 individual from Gobero, Nigeria. Photo (c) Mike Hettwer, courtesy Project Exploration.

G3B8 is not alone in his stature and robustness. There other burials, both male and female, from this time frame are of similar height. These Early Holocene hunter-gathering fishermen also have characteristic skulls — long and low, with a unique occipital bun and broad nasals. These features aren’t restricted to only adults, in fact, juveniles as young as 4 years exhibit similar traits which are not shared by the later inhabitants of Gobero. These bodies were tightly bound when buried.

If you read the links it is noted that the Kiffian people were tall and not some supernatural beings just human like the rest of us.

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jmccr8
1 hour ago, CuriousEye said:

You folks here are even too thick to even get some basic notions in regard to conventional History, Archeology, Religion and mythology. So pitifully American.

Hi Curiou

I find your approach somewhat limited as I asked earlier for links to support your claim and you come back with this BS, I am asking for a second time that you provide credible links that support your claim.

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jaylemurph
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CuriousEye said:

You folks here are even too thick to even get some basic notions in regard to conventional History, Archeology, Religion and mythology. So pitifully American.

I will gladly take up your implicit challenge here and discuss conventional history, archaeology, religion, and mythology. 

And since it’s traditionally the opponent who chooses the medium of the duel, I’ll go ahead and select “political ramifications of ninth- and tenth-century Quem Quaeritis trope(s).”

Go ahead. Start talking. We’ll see just how far you get. 

—Jaylemurph 

Edited by jaylemurph
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CuriousEye
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, closed for business said:

Hi Curiou

I find your approach somewhat limited as I asked earlier for links to support your claim and you come back with this BS, I am asking for a second time that you provide credible links that support your claim.

You can practically read every single book, piece of work, serious documentary and magazine article made about Mesopotamia, ancient migration flux, the ancient Middle East and Northeast Africa, because to ask me to resume about twenty years worth of reading, collegial studies and hobbyist researching into one single infographic source is like asking you to give me a Moon stone right now. Feasible in a few dozens of years worth of investing money and becoming rich enough to send a private expedition to the Earth's closest neighbor (or just paying somebody to steal the NASA) , but painfully long.

Just read, man. I don't care about whether you see BS in my commentary or not. I am not there to educate you, only to make people s%ut up about this BS topic.
 

 

Edited by CuriousEye

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jmccr8
1 hour ago, CuriousEye said:

You can practically read every single book, piece of work, serious documentary and magazine article made about Mesopotamia, ancient migration flux, the ancient Middle East and Northeast Africa, because to ask me to resume about twenty years worth of reading, collegial studies and hobbyist researching into one single infographic source is like asking you to give me a Moon stone right now. Feasible in a few dozens of years worth of investing money and becoming rich enough to send a private expedition to the Earth's closest neighbor (or just paying somebody to steal the NASA) , but painfully long.

Just read, man. I don't care about whether you see BS in my commentary or not. I am not there to educate you, only to make people s%ut up about this BS topic.
 

 

Hi curious

Actually this is a discussion forum and me asking you to provide sources is a part of how this works. I called your attitude BS not the subject at hand so grow up old man

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jaylemurph
3 hours ago, CuriousEye said:

You can practically read every single book, piece of work, serious documentary and magazine article made about Mesopotamia, ancient migration flux, the ancient Middle East and Northeast Africa, because to ask me to resume about twenty years worth of reading, collegial studies and hobbyist researching into one single infographic source is like asking you to give me a Moon stone right now. Feasible in a few dozens of years worth of investing money and becoming rich enough to send a private expedition to the Earth's closest neighbor (or just paying somebody to steal the NASA) , but painfully long.

Just read, man. I don't care about whether you see BS in my commentary or not. I am not there to educate you, only to make people s%ut up about this BS topic.

No, thank you.

You insulted me (and everyone else here), so I want the chance for you to prove your boasts.

You certainly appear to be running your claims back, so [redacted] or get off the pot, or at least recognize the fact if you do get off, you'll be considered intellectually dishonest.

--Jaylemurph

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jaylemurph

Just as I thought. 

All talk and no trousers, as Mrs Slocombe would say. 

I don’t think anyone’s too surprised. 

—Jaylemurph 

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Harte
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, CuriousEye said:

I assume that you are confusing skepticism with "complete lack of regard to nuance in written form" .

I mean... what else do you need to figure out about the lexicological use of the terms "myths" , "legends" and "so-called" to get the evidence that I am referencing from an euhemerist point of view about the hypothetical possibility of a prehistoric group whose tall stature, culture, prowess, elongated heads (whether designed by ritualistically cosmetic means or whatever physiological mutation they had) and precocious agricultural Neolithic technology may obviously have left a deep-seated imprint onto the minds of some impressionable Stone Age hunting gathering and early Neolithic groups, and thus plausibly inspiring the recurrent mythography about gigantic demigods/angels and civilization builders in both Africa and various Eurasian societies, to get that this commentary has never meant to be taken on the first degree, aside a functional cognitive loci and an average I.Q. ??

Guess you don't understand. Let me spell it out for you.

THERE IS NO "HOMO PARACAS."

Not only that, there is NO tendency toward Giantism.

Lastly, there is NO "protohistoric civilizer race."

Moving forward, let me tell you that when you make up crap out of thin air, you can count on me responding. In this particular instance, I was quite gentle with you. That will not be the case in the future.

Harte

Edited by Harte
"Homo Fatfingerus"
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jaylemurph
5 hours ago, Harte said:

Lastly, there is NO "protohistoric civilizer race."

Well, someone just lost their invite to the Feast of a Thousand Hams. 

—Jaylemurph 

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ShadowSot
42 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Well, someone just lost their invite to the Feast of a Thousand Hams. 

—Jaylemurph 

He said civilizer race. Basset hounds were a civilizer species. Very different. 

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