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The Origin of the Sumerians


Manwon Lender
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1 hour ago, Hanslune said:

Some myths may have some basis but others are so bizarre or impossible that they can be discounted as religious imagery.

Shinto creation myth

...for some reason I don't think Japan was formed by a spear dripping water...that's just me of course.

A spear dripping water?

With a bit of creative thinking I can come up with a flaming meteor (spear) impacting into the shallow western Pacific, near China, hitting the seafloor causing volcanic eruptions, and creating proto-Japan.

But that's just me of course.

:P

Edited to add:

Of course no Japanese were present during the formation of Japan. But some may have seen an impacting meteor causing earthquakes and rising new volcanos in the Ring of Fire, and by that spectacle assumed that that's how their country came into existence.

Edited by Abramelin
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42 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

A spear dripping water?

With a bit of creative thinking I can come up with a flaming meteor (spear) impacting into the shallow western Pacific, near China, hitting the seafloor causing volcanic eruptions, and creating proto-Japan.

But that's just me of course.

:P

Edited to add:

Of course no Japanese were present during the formation of Japan. But some may have seen an impacting meteor causing earthquakes and rising new volcanos in the Ring of Fire, and by that spectacle assumed that that's how their country came into existence.

Or they could have assumed the spear thing.

The real point is, creation myths don't tell anyone anything about any creation.

Harte

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3 minutes ago, Harte said:

Or they could have assumed the spear thing.

The real point is, creation myths don't tell anyone anything about any creation.

Harte

True.

But I just wanted to show how such a creation myth could have come into existence.

 

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Probably just created by some respected person who could tell a good story. Homer was such a person he created a great story but we are uncertain as how much is real and how (for much of it was clearly made up) wasn't.

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I was raised by a father, a farmer's son, a man raised in an extremely poor area of the Netherlands. No newspapers, no radio, of course no tv, and so on.

All they had was telling eachother stories when they all came together.

My father was a master story teller. And I can only hope I inherited the most important of his genes.

Homer, my hero (and I don't mean the 'The Simpsons' version, lol!).

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2 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Some myths may have some basis but others are so bizarre or impossible that they can be discounted as religious imagery.

Shinto creation myth

...for some reason I don't think Japan was formed by a spear dripping water...that's just me of course.

 

>>>

 

Myths are largely figurative, not literal. One needs step outside the modern western mindset.

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1 hour ago, closed for business said:

Of course that is true but what seasmith linked to was about reptilian aliens and not standard mythology

 

>>>

 

I linked to images of actual  hard artifacts. 
Don't  know anything about the alien reptile website you're referring to.

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ubaid_lizardmen-768x432.png

 

These were the first images that showed up in a googy search. I'll look for a museum website to steal from next time, since we are all purists here  :>)

 

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41 minutes ago, seasmith said:

 

>>>

 

Myths are largely figurative, not literal. One needs step outside the modern western mindset.

Okay, given I don't think I have a western mind set, so please tell us what your non-western mindset makes of the Shinto creation myth ( I used the Shinto one because I was born in Japan).

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37 minutes ago, seasmith said:

 

>>>

 

I linked to images of actual  hard artifacts. 
Don't  know anything about the alien reptile website you're referring to.

It was in the link you gave I am not in the habit of making stuff up.

 

Small clay figurines unearthed by archaeologists in the Ubaid ruins yielded mostly female forms adorned with colored ornaments, and with heads resembling those of lizards. The reptilian shape used for these figurines has confused many researchers. It has also lead many to speculate that the lizard-headed figurines may depict alien beings.

 

Lizardmen, reptilians, humanoid lizards, and other similar monikers have been applied to beings who have distinct reptilian features and characteristics combined with human-like traits. These creatures are said to be shape-shifting humanoid aliens with the power to control the world from underground bases. And, they are claimed to be related to most of the world’s leaders who are bent on carrying out a nefarious agenda. 

David Icke has long been a proponent of the theory that a race of reptilian extraterrestrials has been manipulating humanity by pulling the strings of politicians and financiers at a global level.

Icke’s theory comes from interpretations of Gnostic texts including the Nag Hammadi, as well as biblical Apocrypha like the Dead Sea Scrolls. He says he believes these texts contain evidence that certain higher vibrational beings of frequency, known as Archons, appear on Earth as humans, masking their true reptilian form. He says these “Archontic” forces are undoubtedly evil, intent on enslaving humanity for their own selfish reasons.

They were statues of imaginary entities and new age dreamers impose false meanings

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34 minutes ago, seasmith said:

ubaid_lizardmen-768x432.png

 

These were the first images that showed up in a googy search. I'll look for a museum website to steal from next time, since we are all purists here  :>)

 

Yep and take a look at Ancient Egyptian Sumerian, Hindu, Chinese and Japanese. etc, etc and you'll find 'non-humans' there too. People have imaginations and dreams - they often created art that was not a picture of reality. Heck look at modern stuff and you'll find tons too

 

Edited by Hanslune
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Are we sure they’re lizard people and not stylised representations of humans with slanted eyes in dresses?

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6 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Are we sure they’re lizard people and not stylised representations of humans with slanted eyes in dresses?

Artistic license. If archaeologists from 10000 AD dug of a habitation and found a Pablo Picasso or cubist paintings in it would he take that as evidence we had aliens - or severely deformed people in our society?

il_570xN.1236975363_sjjm.jpg

visitors-in-front-of-pablo-picassos-les-

 

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Some of my favourite ancient figures were from the Aegean

rD9iU54E8en9NCavif16-g.jpg

All sightless mutes.....sad (Cycladic culture)

Edited by Hanslune
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6 hours ago, Hanslune said:

...IF there 'knowledge' came from the 'Elder race', where did THEY get it from and where are they? This just passes the question on and doesn't answer it.

If you like you can take this to absurd levels - insisting everything we know came from somewhere/one else and ends 2.6 million or more years in the past with a fine gal or fellow picking up a rock and using it for something.

I don't believe that, that was a response to another member. I don't want to take anything to absurd I think you misunderstood my post.

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3 hours ago, seasmith said:

 

>>>

 

Myths are largely figurative, not literal. One needs step outside the modern western mindset.

Yes, but any methodology you create that cannot be used definitively separate what is totally fictional and what has a kernel of truth is ultimately useless: all you’re left with is wish-list of what you /want/ to be true. 

…and that’s called religion, not history.

—Jaylemurph 

Edited by jaylemurph
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2 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Artistic license. If archaeologists from 10000 AD dug of a habitation and found a Pablo Picasso or cubist paintings in it would he take that as evidence we had aliens - or severely deformed people in our society?

Artistic license, maybe, but more likely to be adherence to previously-established convention. Every piece of art rests in the spectrum between convention and innovation. 

In fact, the more instances of similarity you find, the more likely it is to be a convention. That’s why you need at least a decent background in the conventions of a culture before even attempting to pontificate the “meaning” of art. You risk looking as foolish as people finding UFOs in medieval art who can’t even find Serbia on a map.

—Jaylemurph 

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1 hour ago, jaylemurph said:

Artistic license, maybe, but more likely to be adherence to previously-established convention. Every piece of art rests in the spectrum between convention and innovation. 

In fact, the more instances of similarity you find, the more likely it is to be a convention. That’s why you need at least a decent background in the conventions of a culture before even attempting to pontificate the “meaning” of art. You risk looking as foolish as people finding UFOs in medieval art who can’t even find Serbia on a map.

—Jaylemurph 

Don't you just turn right at Budapest?

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7 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Yep and take a look at Ancient Egyptian Sumerian, Hindu, Chinese and Japanese. etc, etc and you'll find 'non-humans' there too. People have imaginations and dreams - they often created art that was not a picture of reality. Heck look at modern stuff and you'll find tons too

 

ubaid_lizardmen-768x432.png

 

 

Please don't conflate Ubaid clay fetishes with Sumerian creation myths.
Different eras and different things altogether.

 

I don't know Shinto from Shinola, you will have to do the interpreting there.

 

>>>

 

Manwon wrote:

" So actually their origin leave a very large hole in the historical account of these people. While it is a mystery I also believe it's a matter of time to discover this. "

 

Will it be in the lifetime of this thread ?

 

 

 

Oriental Institute of Chicago University

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHDPGUuAjIo

 

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31 minutes ago, seasmith said:

ubaid_lizardmen-768x432.png

 

 

Please don't conflate Ubaid clay fetishes with Sumerian creation myths.
Different eras and different things altogether.

 

I don't know Shinto from Shinola, you will have to do the interpreting there.

 

>>>

 

Manwon wrote:

" So actually their origin leave a very large hole in the historical account of these people. While it is a mystery I also believe it's a matter of time to discover this. "

 

Will it be in the lifetime of this thread ?

 

 

 

Oriental Institute of Chicago University

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHDPGUuAjIo

 

Its possible we might find some connection between the Sumerian and people x it is also possible we won't. There are fertile places to look, Persian Gulf, Zagros mountains the northern flood plains of Iraq,, northern Arabia, etc.

As I have noted before people have been sloshing around the earth for hundreds of thousands of years it can be difficult to pin them down and say 'this was the homeland of the Wakakrapi'.

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11 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Its possible we might find some connection between the Sumerian and people x it is also possible we won't. There are fertile places to look, Persian Gulf, Zagros mountains the northern flood plains of Iraq,, northern Arabia, etc.

As I have noted before people have been sloshing around the earth for hundreds of thousands of years it can be difficult to pin them down and say 'this was the homeland of the Wakakrapi'.

>>>

 

Exactly. 

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18 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Its possible we might find some connection between the Sumerian and people x it is also possible we won't. There are fertile places to look, Persian Gulf, Zagros mountains the northern flood plains of Iraq,, northern Arabia, etc.

As I have noted before people have been sloshing around the earth for hundreds of thousands of years it can be difficult to pin them down and say 'this was the homeland of the Wakakrapi'.

You don't need to bring my Ascended Master's people into this.

Harte

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7 hours ago, Harte said:

You don't need to bring my Ascended Master's people into this.

Harte

That's not a good idea, I have meet those Ascended Masters and they are not my kind of people.:tu:

119E6E9F-2778-4D34-8505-96440D6A774C-4239-0000047225617729.jpg

9B5E6141-7C00-4331-8D42-FB885DFCA0CC-4239-0000047279916151.jpg

EC301BE5-EBB4-4447-B2F2-418AB3AF3E8F-4239-0000047312C16E09.jpg

Edited by Manwon Lender
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On 6/15/2021 at 12:40 PM, seasmith said:

ubaid_lizardmen-768x432.png

 

 

Please don't conflate Ubaid clay fetishes with Sumerian creation myths.
Different eras and different things altogether.

 

I don't know Shinto from Shinola, you will have to do the interpreting there.

 

>>>

 

Manwon wrote:

" So actually their origin leave a very large hole in the historical account of these people. While it is a mystery I also believe it's a matter of time to discover this. "

 

Will it be in the lifetime of this thread ?

 

 

 

Oriental Institute of Chicago University

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHDPGUuAjIo

 

I tried to keep this thread on track with papers written on subjects that address the topic of the theories on the Sumerian Origin. You unknowingly or intentionally slip this nonsense concerning Lizard Humanoids in to the mix, and you also brought up the topic of an Elder Race. I don't agree with you on the subject, and I have no idea why you thought it should be added to an otherwise reasonable thread. Whatever, your motive was I think we are all past that now, so let's move on.:yes:

Oh and by the way Seasmith this ones for you!:D

 

E277AF14-EC16-4E20-B789-E0B05EE317D3-1478-000001F8F2E622D3.gif

Edited by Manwon Lender
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7 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

That's not a good idea, I have meet those Ascended Masters and they are not my kind of people.:tu:

119E6E9F-2778-4D34-8505-96440D6A774C-4239-0000047225617729.jpg

9B5E6141-7C00-4331-8D42-FB885DFCA0CC-4239-0000047279916151.jpg

EC301BE5-EBB4-4447-B2F2-418AB3AF3E8F-4239-0000047312C16E09.jpg

My personal Ascended Master, Bool Krappi, is not concerned with your opinion of him.

Harte

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