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Are new offshore vertical wind turbines the future?


Hankenhunter

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9 hours ago, susieice said:

think they were very good eating. I sure have seen a lot of them down there over the years

People will eat anything if nothing better is available. If they taste anything like crab, I feel sorry for the poor b*****s. From what I've gathered, they're being farmed now.

I hope you slept well, and I apologise for any angst I may have inflicted on you early this morning during our debate. Such was not my intent, but I can get carried away sometimes, as a mod demonstrated by removing our debate posts. Cheers,

Hank

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9 hours ago, susieice said:

Horseshoe crabs are not good eating and they are protected by law. It's their blood that's so important to medicine.

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/horseshoe-crab-blood-miracle-vaccine-ingredient.html

Also:

The motion urges that the Service can only allow harvesting to resume after it has complied with its legal responsibilities under the Endangered Species Act and the National Wildlife Refuge System Improvement Act. “This harvest of horseshoe crabs is illegal and should not be allowed to continue one more year.Mar 9, 2021

Very good news indeed. Thank you.

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2 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Very good news indeed. Thank you.

The conservationists also tag sea turtles and whales as they come into the bay and on the shore also. Two years ago (we didn't go last year because of covid) I got a neighbor who feeds my cat for me when I'm gone, a bracelet that has a locket on it that opens and it tracks one of the tagged sea turtles. She can see where in the world her turtle is at any given moment. The sales help to raise money and she's real into conservation also. I hope her turtle is still well and pinging. I'll have to ask her. My friend and I will both be fully vaccinated by this fall and are planning our trip down this year. Hopefully we can make it. I'll probably buy one for myself this time.

I knew the Delaware Bay, Cape May coastline was an important wildlife refugee but even I didn't know how important. Delaware Bay is the only place in North America that has this species of horseshoe crab. The other three species are all in Asia and are very endangered. 

Edited by susieice
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2 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

People will eat anything if nothing better is available. If they taste anything like crab, I feel sorry for the poor b*****s. From what I've gathered, they're being farmed now.

I hope you slept well, and I apologise for any angst I may have inflicted on you early this morning during our debate. Such was not my intent, but I can get carried away sometimes, as a mod demonstrated by removing our debate posts. Cheers,

Hank

That's probably my fault for putting that link into that thread. I was just tired and didn't want to start another one. We were talking about laws being made independently by states so I just put it there.

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12 minutes ago, susieice said:

The conservationists also tag sea turtles and whales as they come into the bay and on the shore also. Two years ago (we didn't go last year because of covid) I got a neighbor who feeds my cat for me when I'm gone, a bracelet that has a locket on it that opens and it tracks one of the tagged sea turtles. She can see where in the world her turtle is at any given moment. The sales help to raise money and she's real into conservation also. I hope her turtle is still well and pinging. I'll have to ask her. My friend and I will both be fully vaccinated by this fall and are planning our trip down this year. Hopefully we can make it. I'll probably buy one for myself this time.

I knew the Delaware Bay, Cape May coastline was an important wildlife refugee but even I didn't know how important. Delaware Bay is the only place in North America that has this species of horseshoe crab. The other three species are all in Asia and are very endangered. 

Awesome information. I think I'm going to adopt a Sea Turtle. Perhaps even carve one from a moose antler. Thank you.:nw:

Edited by Hankenhunter
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1 hour ago, susieice said:

The conservationists also tag sea turtles and whales as they come into the bay and on the shore also. Two years ago (we didn't go last year because of covid) I got a neighbor who feeds my cat for me when I'm gone, a bracelet that has a locket on it that opens and it tracks one of the tagged sea turtles. She can see where in the world her turtle is at any given moment. The sales help to raise money and she's real into conservation also. I hope her turtle is still well and pinging. I'll have to ask her. My friend and I will both be fully vaccinated by this fall and are planning our trip down this year. Hopefully we can make it. I'll probably buy one for myself this time.

I knew the Delaware Bay, Cape May coastline was an important wildlife refugee but even I didn't know how important. Delaware Bay is the only place in North America that has this species of horseshoe crab. The other three species are all in Asia and are very endangered. 

For you to make you smile while you're kinda laid up. The women have their own channel dedicated to same. Tried to p.m it to you, but your office was closed. Many more where this came from. Heart warming and funny.

Hank

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4 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

For you to make you smile while you're kinda laid up. The women have their own channel dedicated to same. Tried to p.m it to you, but your office was closed. Many more where this came from. Heart warming and funny.

Hank

LOL  Gummy snakes I'll eat but not the real thing. No bugs or snails or eels either. No creepy crawlies for me.

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23 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

The now-familiar sight of traditional propeller wind turbines could be replaced in the future with wind farms containing more compact and efficient vertical turbines.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2021-04/obu-vtc042621.php

The more you put the turbine high off the ground, the better it is.... It's why we see bigger and bigger propeller wind turbine. Don't know if you can gain more when putting these on high mast ?

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2 hours ago, Jon the frog said:

The more you put the turbine high off the ground, the better it is.... It's why we see bigger and bigger propeller wind turbine. Don't know if you can gain more when putting these on high mast ?

I think it may be to reduce the damage caused to birds. Also they may be cheaper to build, and last longer with out the catastrophic, and spectacular failures we've been seeing with the huge propellor style. You Tube has some vids showing these failures. Also, perhaps these might be more efficient in ocean winds, which tend to be faster, and more violent than on land. I'd like to see this design on land.     

      I do know that many off grid homes use a variation of this propellerless design for safety reasons. I built one simaler from a plastic barrel, and folded the cut flaps back to catch the wind. Just add an alternator, and a long auto belt. It worked, but better materials would have made it much better, and more efficient. Looked wild when it started spinning. I've also seen a horizontal screw variation, but have never built one. People are clever animals. Too bad fossil fuel companies buy up most of the patents, and sit on them. Free energy may be one of these sat upon on inventions. Didn't Nicholai Tesla invent something along these lines? If I'm wrong, please forgive me. 

Edited by Hankenhunter
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 I see no reason a protective cage couldn't be installed around this design using two inch mesh screening to keep the birds from getting shredded. Surprised they haven't thought of this already.

Edited to add; They do now, I sent them a text, and an Email.:D

Edited by Hankenhunter
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Good job Hank. How about air currents. A lot of shore birds ride air currents and soar to save their strength because they go long distances. Would the turbines affect them? Like a fan moves air. I've been thinking about that also. If they're out far enough from the migration path, they shouldn't, should they?

Anyone have an idea?

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5 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

Also they may be cheaper to build, and last longer with out the catastrophic, and spectacular failures we've been seeing with the huge propellor style. You Tube has some vids showing these failures.

All turbine failures where caused by bad construction/bad maintenance/technical malfunction/inadequate foundation but not by size.

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22 minutes ago, toast said:

All turbine failures where caused by bad construction/bad maintenance/technical malfunction/inadequate foundation but not by size.

Agree, but the bigger they are, the bigger they fail. Simpler is better. The top heavy nature is the propeller versions own downfall. Smaller overall signature, more and longer lasting with less vibration problems. Plus, easier,  cheaper,  and more efficiently faster to inspect them.

I do agree that the earlier versions were poorly built. But, I can understand the haste to get them up, and running. Plus hopefully they've learned from the mistakes. Hence the new model design?

Thank you for the illumination. Every post helps. 

Edited by Hankenhunter
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15 hours ago, Hankenhunter said:

 I see no reason a protective cage couldn't be installed around this design using two inch mesh screening to keep the birds from getting shredded. Surprised they haven't thought of this already.

Edited to add; They do now, I sent them a text, and an Email.:D

Cause for a wind turbine to work it needs laminar air flow and a cage would cause the air flow to be turbulent.  Even then wind turbines rarely kill birds but instead decimate bat populations.  

As for vertical wind turbines those are just a scam.  There is the Betz limit, derived from Bernoulli equation, that limits the maximum amount of energy that can be extracted out of wind by wind turbines and the theoretical limit is about 59%.  Practically that limit is less, for 3 bladed wind turbines it's about 49% while for vertical wind turbines it's around 15%.  

There there is the fact verticle wind turbines require far more maintenance and are more prone to mechanical failure then traditional wind turbines.  

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39 minutes ago, DarkHunter said:

Cause for a wind turbine to work it needs laminar air flow and a cage would cause the air flow to be turbulent.  Even then wind turbines rarely kill birds but instead decimate bat populations.  

As for vertical wind turbines those are just a scam.  There is the Betz limit, derived from Bernoulli equation, that limits the maximum amount of energy that can be extracted out of wind by wind turbines and the theoretical limit is about 59%.  Practically that limit is less, for 3 bladed wind turbines it's about 49% while for vertical wind turbines it's around 15%.  

There there is the fact verticle wind turbines require far more maintenance and are more prone to mechanical failure then traditional wind turbines.  

One would think that the bats would avoid a confusing radar signal, but I'm not a biologist so your probably right. As for a scam, you'd have to tell that to off gridders who are using that design to power their homes. My version of it worked, and I just slapped it up. Not efficiently perhaps, but it's enough to recharge my emergency batteries. It's kinda noisy though. No birds or bats killed either. Frankly I'm sure it scares the bejesus out if them. My neighbor points, and laughs at it. It's all good though. He's cool. Thank you for your post. I'd post a pic if someone could show me how to post from my phone photos to forum. I am not a smart man. More dogged than anything else. Dogged because when people say can't to me, I have to prove otherwise. It's a failing I have. But electronics scare me.  

Hank.

 

Edited by Hankenhunter
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9 minutes ago, Hankenhunter said:

One would think that the bats would avoid a confusing radar signal, but I'm not a biologist so your probably right. As for a scam, you'd have to tell that off gridders who are using that design to power their homes. My version of it worked, and I just slapped it up. Not efficiently perhaps, but it's enough to recharge my emergency batteries. It's kinda noisy though. No birds or bats killed either. Frankly I'm sure it scares the bejesus out if them. My neighbor points, and laughs at it. It's all good though. He's cool. Thank you for your post.

Hank.

 

It's not clear why bats are drawn to wind turbines but they are.  It's not the blades that kill the bats but the decent sized under pressure region that forms behind each blade that kills them, essentially the bats fly into the low pressure region and get the bends instantly.  If the bends doesnt kill them then the drop does.  

Vertical wind turbines will produce energy from wind but as an energy solution on a national scale they simply wont be a viable option as a three bladed wind turbine is just strictly better in almost every metric.  Someone living off grid with limited energy needs it wont effect much but a three bladed wind turbine would give them about three times the energy.  

Edited by DarkHunter
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