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Eldorado

'Library of the Great Silence' invites E.T. to share strategies

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Eldorado

Intelligent aliens will soon have a space here on Earth where they can share how they made it through their technological adolescence.

We haven't yet heard from any such beings, of course. Some researchers find this "Great Silence" puzzling, given how old the universe is and how many potentially habitable worlds dot its vast expanse.

One possible explanation is that civilizations tend to destroy themselves once they become "advanced" enough to explore the cosmos in a meaningful way. Such power is inherently hard to control and can burn you to the ground more easily than it can fuel an outward push, the idea goes.

Full article: https://www.space.com/library-of-great-silence-aliens-fermi-paradox

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zep73

While they wait for the aliens, they could re-evaluate the Fermi paradox, 'coz it's lacking a lot of important considerations.

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itsnotoutthere
Posted (edited)

Again. It's to do with the vastness of space. Unless they are local, looking for them is pointless. 

Edited by itsnotoutthere

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jethrofloyd

9342bb207d604ca198c91762f3100858.jpg

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Nuclear Wessel
On 4/30/2021 at 2:02 PM, itsnotoutthere said:

Again. It's to do with the vastness of space. Unless they are local, looking for them is pointless. 

Just for clarification's sake but what do you define as "local"?

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itsnotoutthere
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Just for clarification's sake but what do you define as "local"?

Within our solar system i.e. from a moon of one of our closer planets.

 

Edited by itsnotoutthere

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Nuclear Wessel
22 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Within our solar system i.e. from a moon of one of our closer planets.

 

Would you still argue that it's pointless if we both identify an area in space that's suitable for life and we have the technology to attempt communication with them?

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itsnotoutthere
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Would you still argue that it's pointless if we both identify an area in space that's suitable for life and we have the technology to attempt communication with them?

Well, yes. As long as you don't mind waiting 20,30 or 50 years for a reply. Our next nearest star Proxima Centuri is 4.2 light years away which means even if we could communicate at the speed of light, we would have to wait 8.4 years for a reply. Now if we identify a planet on a star system 20 light years away, we'll have to wait 40 years for a reply..etc etc. Now considering the vast majority of stars in our galaxy 100s & 1000s of light years away from us, waiting 200 or 2000 years for a reply is unfathomable.

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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Nuclear Wessel
33 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Our next nearest star Proxima Centuri is 4.2 light years away which means even if we could communicate at the speed of light, we would have to wait 8.4 years for a reply.

Radio waves travel at the speed of light in a vacuum so we already can communicate "at the speed of light". 8.4 years for a response is nothing. 

Quote

Now if we identify a planet on a star system 20 light years away, we'll have to wait 40 years for a reply..etc etc.

If we identify a planet in a star system 20 light years away that is potentially capable of sustaining life then waiting 40 years for a reply could very well be worth it.

Quote

Now considering the vast majority of stars in our galaxy 100s & 1000s of light years away from us, waiting 200 or 2000 years for a reply is unfathomable.

As we get into communication across such vast distances then I can agree here that yes, it would be relatively pointless given our current state of technology. That being said, I can only imagine that we will figure out faster, more efficient ways to communicate across such long distances.

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theotherguy

It's not too difficult to keep good records about what was sent into space, when it was sent, where, and how it was sent, and then to keep those records for several decades, or longer if needed. The question that comes to my mind is, would such a signal be intelligible by whatever might be there to receive it, and if so, would their response be intelligible to us? Even if the 1974 Arecibo message was sent out again, if the recipients' basic mathematics was based around triangles instead of rectangles, they might not recognize it as meaningful. I know I'm going deep into hypotheticals here, but 1, 4, 9, 16, 25 is as arbitrary a sequences as 1, (1+2=) 3, (1+2+3=) 6, (1+2+3+4=) 10, (1+2+3+4+5=) 15. How do Europans do math?

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Dejarma
14 minutes ago, theotherguy said:

How do Europans do math?

well to start with they call it maths because that's short for mathematics like stats is short for statistics.

You're obviously next to a fireplace somewhere in America. Though you may not be in America right now:D

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theotherguy

Europe, Europa, same thing, right?

I freely admit my American-ness, and my inability to pick a moon of Jupiter that doesn't sounds like a continent.

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itsnotoutthere
Posted (edited)
On 5/2/2021 at 3:19 PM, Nuclear Wessel said:

Radio waves travel at the speed of light in a vacuum so we already can communicate "at the speed of light". 8.4 years for a response is nothing. 

If we identify a planet in a star system 20 light years away that is potentially capable of sustaining life then waiting 40 years for a reply could very well be worth it.

As we get into communication across such vast distances then I can agree here that yes, it would be relatively pointless given our current state of technology. That being said, I can only imagine that we will figure out faster, more efficient ways to communicate across such long distances.

Er....faster than light?? :hmm:

You do know the physics involved in accelerating sub atomic particles to near the speed of light? I say 'near' because it hasn't been done yet. Einsteins equations still hold.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/1557/accelerating-particles-to-speeds-infinitesimally-close-to-the-speed-of-light

By special relativity, the energy needed to accelerate a particle (with mass) grow super-quadratically when the speed is close to c, and is ∞ when it is c.

E=γmc2=mc21(“percent of speed of light”)2E=γmc2=mc21−(“percent of speed of light”)2

Since you can't supply infinite energy to the particle, it is not possible to get to 100% c.

(p.s. Which is another good explanation of why the chances of being visited by aliens in a physical spaceship stands at approximately zero percent)

Edited by itsnotoutthere

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Nuclear Wessel
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Er....faster than light?? :hmm:

You do know the physics involved in accelerating sub atomic particles to near the speed of light? I say 'near' because it hasn't been done yet. Einsteins equations still hold.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/1557/accelerating-particles-to-speeds-infinitesimally-close-to-the-speed-of-light

By special relativity, the energy needed to accelerate a particle (with mass) grow super-quadratically when the speed is close to c, and is ∞ when it is c.

E=γmc2=mc21(“percent of speed of light”)2E=γmc2=mc21−(“percent of speed of light”)2

Since you can't supply infinite energy to the particle, it is not possible to get to 100% c.

(p.s. Which is another good explanation of why the chances of being visited by aliens in a physical spaceship stands at approximately zero percent)

No, not "faster than light". This is currently not possible based on our understanding of physics.

I imagine we will eventually leverage quantum entanglement to communicate across these distances, though for now I can agree that yes, it is essentially pointless to attempt communication across vast distances of, say, hundreds of light years.

Edited by Nuclear Wessel

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itsnotoutthere

"I imagine we will eventually leverage quantum entanglement to communicate across these distances"

That's assuming we can find enough Dilithium crystals  ;)

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josellama2000

BTW, interstellar is a small town in Siberia. So I doubt any alien will be interested. :)

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