Eldorado Posted April 30, 2021 #1 Share Posted April 30, 2021 Intelligent aliens will soon have a space here on Earth where they can share how they made it through their technological adolescence. We haven't yet heard from any such beings, of course. Some researchers find this "Great Silence" puzzling, given how old the universe is and how many potentially habitable worlds dot its vast expanse. One possible explanation is that civilizations tend to destroy themselves once they become "advanced" enough to explore the cosmos in a meaningful way. Such power is inherently hard to control and can burn you to the ground more easily than it can fuel an outward push, the idea goes. Full article: https://www.space.com/library-of-great-silence-aliens-fermi-paradox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep73 Posted April 30, 2021 #2 Share Posted April 30, 2021 While they wait for the aliens, they could re-evaluate the Fermi paradox, 'coz it's lacking a lot of important considerations. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted April 30, 2021 #3 Share Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) Again. It's to do with the vastness of space. Unless they are local, looking for them is pointless. Edited April 30, 2021 by itsnotoutthere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethrofloyd Posted April 30, 2021 #4 Share Posted April 30, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted May 1, 2021 #5 Share Posted May 1, 2021 On 4/30/2021 at 2:02 PM, itsnotoutthere said: Again. It's to do with the vastness of space. Unless they are local, looking for them is pointless. Just for clarification's sake but what do you define as "local"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted May 1, 2021 #6 Share Posted May 1, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said: Just for clarification's sake but what do you define as "local"? Within our solar system i.e. from a moon of one of our closer planets. Edited May 1, 2021 by itsnotoutthere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted May 1, 2021 #7 Share Posted May 1, 2021 22 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said: Within our solar system i.e. from a moon of one of our closer planets. Would you still argue that it's pointless if we both identify an area in space that's suitable for life and we have the technology to attempt communication with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted May 2, 2021 #8 Share Posted May 2, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said: Would you still argue that it's pointless if we both identify an area in space that's suitable for life and we have the technology to attempt communication with them? Well, yes. As long as you don't mind waiting 20,30 or 50 years for a reply. Our next nearest star Proxima Centuri is 4.2 light years away which means even if we could communicate at the speed of light, we would have to wait 8.4 years for a reply. Now if we identify a planet on a star system 20 light years away, we'll have to wait 40 years for a reply..etc etc. Now considering the vast majority of stars in our galaxy 100s & 1000s of light years away from us, waiting 200 or 2000 years for a reply is unfathomable. Edited May 2, 2021 by itsnotoutthere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted May 2, 2021 #9 Share Posted May 2, 2021 33 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said: Our next nearest star Proxima Centuri is 4.2 light years away which means even if we could communicate at the speed of light, we would have to wait 8.4 years for a reply. Radio waves travel at the speed of light in a vacuum so we already can communicate "at the speed of light". 8.4 years for a response is nothing. Quote Now if we identify a planet on a star system 20 light years away, we'll have to wait 40 years for a reply..etc etc. If we identify a planet in a star system 20 light years away that is potentially capable of sustaining life then waiting 40 years for a reply could very well be worth it. Quote Now considering the vast majority of stars in our galaxy 100s & 1000s of light years away from us, waiting 200 or 2000 years for a reply is unfathomable. As we get into communication across such vast distances then I can agree here that yes, it would be relatively pointless given our current state of technology. That being said, I can only imagine that we will figure out faster, more efficient ways to communicate across such long distances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theotherguy Posted May 3, 2021 #10 Share Posted May 3, 2021 It's not too difficult to keep good records about what was sent into space, when it was sent, where, and how it was sent, and then to keep those records for several decades, or longer if needed. The question that comes to my mind is, would such a signal be intelligible by whatever might be there to receive it, and if so, would their response be intelligible to us? Even if the 1974 Arecibo message was sent out again, if the recipients' basic mathematics was based around triangles instead of rectangles, they might not recognize it as meaningful. I know I'm going deep into hypotheticals here, but 1, 4, 9, 16, 25 is as arbitrary a sequences as 1, (1+2=) 3, (1+2+3=) 6, (1+2+3+4=) 10, (1+2+3+4+5=) 15. How do Europans do math? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted May 3, 2021 #11 Share Posted May 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, theotherguy said: How do Europans do math? well to start with they call it maths because that's short for mathematics like stats is short for statistics. You're obviously next to a fireplace somewhere in America. Though you may not be in America right now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theotherguy Posted May 3, 2021 #12 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Europe, Europa, same thing, right? I freely admit my American-ness, and my inability to pick a moon of Jupiter that doesn't sounds like a continent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted May 5, 2021 #13 Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) On 5/2/2021 at 3:19 PM, Nuclear Wessel said: Radio waves travel at the speed of light in a vacuum so we already can communicate "at the speed of light". 8.4 years for a response is nothing. If we identify a planet in a star system 20 light years away that is potentially capable of sustaining life then waiting 40 years for a reply could very well be worth it. As we get into communication across such vast distances then I can agree here that yes, it would be relatively pointless given our current state of technology. That being said, I can only imagine that we will figure out faster, more efficient ways to communicate across such long distances. Er....faster than light?? You do know the physics involved in accelerating sub atomic particles to near the speed of light? I say 'near' because it hasn't been done yet. Einsteins equations still hold. https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/1557/accelerating-particles-to-speeds-infinitesimally-close-to-the-speed-of-light By special relativity, the energy needed to accelerate a particle (with mass) grow super-quadratically when the speed is close to c, and is ∞ when it is c. E=γmc2=mc21−(“percent of speed of light”)2−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−√E=γmc2=mc21−(“percent of speed of light”)2 Since you can't supply infinite energy to the particle, it is not possible to get to 100% c. (p.s. Which is another good explanation of why the chances of being visited by aliens in a physical spaceship stands at approximately zero percent) Edited May 5, 2021 by itsnotoutthere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted May 5, 2021 #14 Share Posted May 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, itsnotoutthere said: Er....faster than light?? You do know the physics involved in accelerating sub atomic particles to near the speed of light? I say 'near' because it hasn't been done yet. Einsteins equations still hold. https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/1557/accelerating-particles-to-speeds-infinitesimally-close-to-the-speed-of-light By special relativity, the energy needed to accelerate a particle (with mass) grow super-quadratically when the speed is close to c, and is ∞ when it is c. E=γmc2=mc21−(“percent of speed of light”)2−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−√E=γmc2=mc21−(“percent of speed of light”)2 Since you can't supply infinite energy to the particle, it is not possible to get to 100% c. (p.s. Which is another good explanation of why the chances of being visited by aliens in a physical spaceship stands at approximately zero percent) No, not "faster than light". This is currently not possible based on our understanding of physics. I imagine we will eventually leverage quantum entanglement to communicate across these distances, though for now I can agree that yes, it is essentially pointless to attempt communication across vast distances of, say, hundreds of light years. Edited May 5, 2021 by Nuclear Wessel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted May 6, 2021 #15 Share Posted May 6, 2021 "I imagine we will eventually leverage quantum entanglement to communicate across these distances" That's assuming we can find enough Dilithium crystals 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josellama2000 Posted May 7, 2021 #16 Share Posted May 7, 2021 BTW, interstellar is a small town in Siberia. So I doubt any alien will be interested. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godnodog Posted April 12, 2022 #17 Share Posted April 12, 2022 I've just uploaded my baked potatoes recipe. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrobeing Posted April 12, 2022 #18 Share Posted April 12, 2022 On 5/2/2021 at 7:19 AM, Nuclear Wessel said: Radio waves travel at the speed of light in a vacuum so we already can communicate "at the speed of light". 8.4 years for a response is nothing. It's not nothing. It's 8.4 years. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobu Posted April 13, 2022 #19 Share Posted April 13, 2022 On 4/30/2021 at 12:02 PM, itsnotoutthere said: Again. It's to do with the vastness of space. Unless they are local, looking for them is pointless. This is my hunch. I don’t think the human mind can typically comprehend the distances in space. I suspect there is other life but it’s just so far away we will never be in contact. The whole folding space thing for travel seems more fantasy than based in any future reality. The vast amount of energy ntroduced and released in some sort of space warp wouldn’t be very friendly to surrounding matter imo. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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