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Manwon Lender

Why I’m Not Woke, By Romy Dolgin

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)

The word "woke" implies that to support the liberal viewpoint is to be socially aware. Woke people are heavily informed and actively involved with liberal social issues. This biased nomenclature is rooted in a belief held by some on the left that people are only conservative because they are uneducated. Some of the most woke—socially informed and engaged—people I know are woke from the right. I know conservatives who watch the news 24/7 and don’t let a single current event slip their notice. Conservatism is not about being misinformed and being woke is not about liberalism. 

Such a usage of language is merely one example of rampant political polarization in the United States. We fail to realize that people are more than their votes for Joe Biden or Donald Trump. People have families, friends, hobbies, passions, thoughts, and priorities. A Trump voter is not necessarily a raving racist, and a Clinton voter is not necessarily trying to leech off your hard-earned money.If you are shaking your head right now, I implore you to pause for a moment. Can you look at yourself and label one single opinion that comprehensively defines your entire identity? I certainly hope not.

Then we should extend this same courtesy to others. So, I don’t want to be woke. I don’t want to restrict my definition of activism and intelligence to only include those who agree with me politically. I want to be open-minded and engaged. I want to be informed and passionate. I want to be an advocate and a human being beyond political issues. Maybe we can broaden the definition of “woke” to include these characteristics from both sides of the political spectrum, but until then I remain contently un-woke

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/4/6/dolgin-why-im-not-woke/

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Helen of Annoy

I like wordplay. Since English is not my first language, I'm still amazed each time I can actually understand a pun or am able to appreciate the humor in a newly coined word. So, I do love newly made words. Some are useful, some are funny. 

What I do not like is the need to invent a whole new vocabulary and "explain" the immensely complex reality through a limited set of neologisms.

Like that "woke" thing. Yes, I've noticed it and I also noticed it's mostly used in derogatory context. I'm probably "woke" to some people I've been arguing with lately :D  And in very deep "conservative" sleep to others.  

But I never was exclusively conservative or liberal, in the sense of purging my own thoughts to fit into one of those narratives, so I certainly won't start labeling or purging myself now. There're so many so very proven "conservative" ideas and so many so very obviously good "liberal" ideas it's just common sense to keep everything old that is good and embrace everything new that is good. 

Just common sense.    

 

3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

 

Such a usage of language is merely one example of rampant political polarization in the United States.

In my opinion, yes, that's true. 

But not just in the US. Damn polarization is everywhere and it's breeding conflicts there, where the above mentioned common sense would eliminate any need for fruitless, endless arguing. 

I'd say that the problem is that what is common sense for me and similar naive, common people (I want my whole society to thrive) is not common sense for someone who lives and thrives on conflict within a society. 

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DieChecker

A word means what society overall wants it to mean.

Gay used to mean one thing and now it means another. 

Woke might have meant someone that thinks at one point, but today it means a presumptive liberal, who, more often then not, is ignorant about most of the subjects they are hot about.

To be woke is to be a fanatic to some degree. 

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Manwon Lender
6 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I like wordplay. Since English is not my first language, I'm still amazed each time I can actually understand a pun or am able to appreciate the humor in a newly coined word. So, I do love newly made words. Some are useful, some are funny. 

What I do not like is the need to invent a whole new vocabulary and "explain" the immensely complex reality through a limited set of neologisms.

Like that "woke" thing. Yes, I've noticed it and I also noticed it's mostly used in derogatory context. I'm probably "woke" to some people I've been arguing with lately :D  And in very deep "conservative" sleep to others.  

But I never was exclusively conservative or liberal, in the sense of purging my own thoughts to fit into one of those narratives, so I certainly won't start labeling or purging myself now. There're so many so very proven "conservative" ideas and so many so very obviously good "liberal" ideas it's just common sense to keep everything old that is good and embrace everything new that is good. 

Just common sense.    

 

In my opinion, yes, that's true. 

But not just in the US. Damn polarization is everywhere and it's breeding conflicts there, where the above mentioned common sense would eliminate any need for fruitless, endless arguing. 

I'd say that the problem is that what is common sense for me and similar naive, common people (I want my whole society to thrive) is not common sense for someone who lives and thrives on conflict within a society. 

My Dear, I completely agree with you on all points, the reason I wanted you to read the article is because it clearly identifies the problems that the entire world is facing concerning WOKENESS. Also, because I find those who frequently use that word here on this forum use it in a manner they think somehow elevates them above those they have weaponized it against. I find that the young lady who wrote that article understands very clearly how foolish placing yourself in that position can be. I hope the other members I shared this with, and their were many learn something from the comments in the article, because they clearly need to wake up.

Take care Helen and thanks for your comments, they are always appreciated my Sister:tu:

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Cookie Monster
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

The word "woke" implies that to support the liberal viewpoint is to be socially aware. Woke people are heavily informed and actively involved with liberal social issues. This biased nomenclature is rooted in a belief held by some on the left that people are only conservative because they are uneducated. Some of the most woke—socially informed and engaged—people I know are woke from the right. I know conservatives who watch the news 24/7 and don’t let a single current event slip their notice. Conservatism is not about being misinformed and being woke is not about liberalism. 

Such a usage of language is merely one example of rampant political polarization in the United States. We fail to realize that people are more than their votes for Joe Biden or Donald Trump. People have families, friends, hobbies, passions, thoughts, and priorities. A Trump voter is not necessarily a raving racist, and a Clinton voter is not necessarily trying to leech off your hard-earned money.If you are shaking your head right now, I implore you to pause for a moment. Can you look at yourself and label one single opinion that comprehensively defines your entire identity? I certainly hope not.

Then we should extend this same courtesy to others. So, I don’t want to be woke. I don’t want to restrict my definition of activism and intelligence to only include those who agree with me politically. I want to be open-minded and engaged. I want to be informed and passionate. I want to be an advocate and a human being beyond political issues. Maybe we can broaden the definition of “woke” to include these characteristics from both sides of the political spectrum, but until then I remain contently un-woke

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/4/6/dolgin-why-im-not-woke/

Lets look at who would normally join each political party, and having never lived in the USA I can only give a British perspective.

Conservatives vs Socialists: This would be those with decent skills and money vs those stuck in low skilled and poorly paid jobs. The conservative side also want to maintain a class social structure where are the socialists want to break this down to give people upwards mobility who dont have skills. The socialists want to give people skills to do this so they spend a lot on state education.

Conservatives vs Liberals: From the conservative side this would be maintaining traditions, family values, Christian values, and a class social structure. The liberal side wants those things eroded because they dont favour the interests of its supporters.

Socialists vs Liberals: In the UK they are largely on the same side. And its because the liberals have focused on the low income minority vote. Our liberal party is different than the Democrat Party because it has some odd policies as they attempt to pick up the fringe votes the other two parties have missed. Such as dismantling our nuclear deterrent.

With the above in mind then people who are woke tend to fall within the socialist and liberal categories, but more so liberal. Its the ones who are on the fringes of our society and their emotions run high because of it. Hence the term snowflake - over emotional, angry, aggressive, cannot cope unless they get their way. 

I disagree that Conservatives are more likely to have no education, its the opposite. They near enough all have decent skills and support this party because they want to maintain their associated income while removing taxes so more of it is their own. The socialists and liberals with the educated amongst their ranks are more likely to have the educated people who got no where. That is if  they see society as having held them back.

The British public are traditionally centre-right and that determines election strategies. Tony Blair got millions of people hooked on child benefits aligning them with his Labour Party even though a lot were centre-right. Because the Tories dont like benefits, they always cut them to the bone. But our current Tory Party did so well at the last election simply because of Brexit. Socialists and Liberals who didnt agree with their parties `we must stay in the EU at any cost mantras` crossed the lines and voted Conservative.

I still think that Trump won the US election, and by a landslide, by playing to the popular vote. Whether we have to wait 50 years or not for the truth to come out then it will. I think it will happen a lot sooner than that. Biden cannot go through his term in office without making some enemies as its impossible to get his followers everything they want. He is still in his honeymoon period but when the dirt starts coming out we will see just how much election corruption went on.

Edited by Cookie Monster

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

A word means what society overall wants it to mean.

Gay used to mean one thing and now it means another. 

Woke might have meant someone that thinks at one point, but today it means a presumptive liberal, who, more often then not, is ignorant about most of the subjects they are hot about.

To be woke is to be a fanatic to some degree. 

No that's were I disagree with you, but I will say that I respect your opinion even though we dont agree on this subject. Like the article described its actually both a Liberal and Conservative thing. In fact the word was stolen from the American Black community and weaponized against them and the Liberals. When in fact Woke only means that a person is awake to the political environment that Americans are living in today. Now, you can agree of disagree but the word was weaponized by the Right to state a perceived intellectual superiority which was pushed by right-winged news media like Fox News. It is always very obvious when a forum member is a Fox News fan, because when one of the news anchors uses a new word, those members jump right on it and start using it on the forum!!!:lol: Its very comical because they are just Parroting what they have just heard to show they are part of the cool gang!!!!:lol:

In my opinion the comments expressed in the article were designed to bring unity not discord, but sadly the discord is so deeply rooted it is falling upon deaf ears and blind eyes.

Take Care my friend:tu:

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Manwon Lender
47 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Lets look at who would normally join each political party, and having never lived in the USA I can only give a British perspective.

Conservatives vs Socialists: This would be those with decent skills and money vs those stuck in low skilled and poorly paid jobs. The conservative side also want to maintain a class social structure where are the socialists want to break this down to give people upwards mobility who dont have skills. The socialists want to give people skills to do this so they spend a lot on state education.

Conservatives vs Liberals: From the conservative side this would be maintaining traditions, family values, Christian values, and a class social structure. The liberal side wants those things eroded because they dont favour the interests of its supporters.

Socialists vs Liberals: In the UK they are largely on the same side. And its because the liberals have focused on the low income minority vote. Our liberal party is different than the Democrat Party because it has some odd policies as they attempt to pick up the fringe votes the other two parties have missed. Such as dismantling our nuclear deterrent.

With the above in mind then people who are woke tend to fall within the socialist and liberal categories, but more so liberal. Its the ones who are on the fringes of our society and their emotions run high because of it. Hence the term snowflake - over emotional, angry, aggressive, cannot cope unless they get their way. 

I disagree that Conservatives are more likely to have no education, its the opposite. They near enough all have decent skills and support this party because they want to maintain their associated income while removing taxes so more of it is their own. The socialists and liberals with the educated amongst their ranks are more likely to have the educated people who got no where. That is if  they see society as having held them back.

The British public are traditionally centre-right and that determines election strategies. Tony Blair got millions of people hooked on child benefits aligning them with his Labour Party even though a lot were centre-right. Because the Tories dont like benefits, they always cut them to the bone. But our current Tory Party did so well at the last election simply because of Brexit. Socialists and Liberals who didnt agree with their parties `we must stay in the EU at any cost mantras` crossed the lines and voted Conservative.

I still think that Trump won the US election, and by a landslide, by playing to the popular vote. Whether we have to wait 50 years or not for the truth to come out then it will. I think it will happen a lot sooner than that. Biden cannot go through his term in office without making some enemies as its impossible to get his followers everything they want. He is still in his honeymoon period but when the dirt starts coming out we will see just how much election corruption went on.

You have missed the point of this thread completely, it doesn't say that conservatives are uneducated or that liberals view point are based upon socialism. If you read the article in the link ( Which you obviously didn't ) you would have clearly seen the distinction of the foolish nature of the word and how it is intended to divide and attempt to conquer. The words meaning is part of the young American Black vocabulary it is based in that cultures Roots. The word was first used in 1938 by a very famous blues singer known as Lead Belly. Again in 2008 it was used by another soul singer for the same purpose which was to stay alert, and stay in tune to the world around you. 

Next it was used by Black lives matter activists in 2014 during demonstrations over the shooting of Michael Brown. The word then received entry into the Oxford Dictionary in 2017. In 2018 the GOP weaponized the word Woke and since that time they used it as a negative term to identify anyone and everyone who doesn't support their cause. In addition the words usage has used for the same purpose by conservatives worldwide. It's more recent use outside the US was in the U.K. to describe Prince Harry and his wife in a negative manner.

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XenoFish

The only thing I know about Woketheism (the cult of wokeness) is that if you don't agree, you're a "nazi" or something like that....

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Manwon Lender
5 hours ago, Xeno-Fish said:

The only thing I know about Woketheism (the cult of wokeness) is that if you don't agree, you're a "nazi" or something like that....

That is exactly the point of the comments in the OP, thecway the word has been weaponized it prevents open discussion. It also presents the fact that everyone is much than the identity given to them based upon their political party.

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XenoFish
30 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

That is exactly the point of the comments in the OP, thecway the word has been weaponized it prevents open discussion. It also presents the fact that everyone is much than the identity given to them based upon their political party.

I think it's a way for the echo chamber idiots to "shut down" a conversation with anyone who makes them think. (challenges their beliefs)

Belief structures have been weaponized. You either agree with the blue haired land whale about the right topping on the pizza or you're a white supremist nazi bigot (even if you're not white). Oh, that also applies to anyone who dare's suggest that people take responsibility for their own lives. (I got called that on here of all places). 

Which is why I absolutely hate politics of all types. 

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Manwon Lender
16 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

I think it's a way for the echo chamber idiots to "shut down" a conversation with anyone who makes them think. (challenges their beliefs)

Belief structures have been weaponized. You either agree with the blue haired land whale about the right topping on the pizza or you're a white supremist nazi bigot (even if you're not white). Oh, that also applies to anyone who dare's suggest that people take responsibility for their own lives. (I got called that on here of all places). 

Which is why I absolutely hate politics of all types. 

I certainly agree, that's why I started this thread and that was basically the point of the author. The article is from 2018 shortly after the word Woke became a political weapon. The intent of the author was to give a different perspective in an attempt to show people on both side the foolish nature of their actions.

Peace

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Grey Area

Yes @Manwon Lender this illustrates the sheer folly of the polarised political system we are all forced to adhere to.

‘Woke’ has indeed become a slur.  These boards are full of lefty this, right that.  Who can honestly say they are 100% on one side or another.

It is party politics that forces this issue.  I get so fed up during election campaigns, firstly for having to decide a one size fits all  manifesto and secondly having to then watch each party not only sell their manifesto but also attack the opposition, then thirdly you choose the personality you like best, cos that’s what it comes down to, which idiot looks the least like an idiot at the end of all the campaigning.  That person then chooses the cabinet, that also should be part of the campaigning.

I do feel especially sorry for folks in the US, as the sheer costs of even thinking about going on the presidential campaign makes available only to the very elite minority of people, totally unrepresentative of your average citizen.

If I could I would completely change the system.  I would outlaw party politics completely.  I would make each cabinet seat an independent position that required voting into so each candidate would set out what they would do in that position.  The prime ministers job would be very simply to ensure that the elected cabinet do their job and stick to their mandate.

The House of Lords would be gone.  In its place would be a brand new system of Advocacy.  Advocates would be appointed to every region, their job very simply would be to get public feedback on any issues, bills etc, these are then debated through the House of Advocates ultimately to be approved or not.  Doing this every decision made is passed by the people.  Advocacy would replace the MP roles currently in place giving a totally independent form of representation that is able to hold the government to account on behalf of the people without whip forcing them to tow the line.

Sorted :tsu:

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Manwon Lender
5 minutes ago, Grey Area said:

Yes @Manwon Lender this illustrates the sheer folly of the polarised political system we are all forced to adhere to.

‘Woke’ has indeed become a slur.  These boards are full of lefty this, right that.  Who can honestly say they are 100% on one side or another.

It is party politics that forces this issue.  I get so fed up during election campaigns, firstly for having to decide a one size fits all  manifesto and secondly having to then watch each party not only sell their manifesto but also attack the opposition, then thirdly you choose the personality you like best, cos that’s what it comes down to, which idiot looks the least like an idiot at the end of all the campaigning.  That person then chooses the cabinet, that also should be part of the campaigning.

I do feel especially sorry for folks in the US, as the sheer costs of even thinking about going on the presidential campaign makes available only to the very elite minority of people, totally unrepresentative of your average citizen.

If I could I would completely change the system.  I would outlaw party politics completely.  I would make each cabinet seat an independent position that required voting into so each candidate would set out what they would do in that position.  The prime ministers job would be very simply to ensure that the elected cabinet do their job and stick to their mandate.

The House of Lords would be gone.  In its place would be a brand new system of Advocacy.  Advocates would be appointed to every region, their job very simply would be to get public feedback on any issues, bills etc, these are then debated through the House of Advocates ultimately to be approved or not.  Doing this every decision made is passed by the people.  Advocacy would replace the MP roles currently in place giving a totally independent form of representation that is able to hold the government to account on behalf of the people without whip forcing them to tow the line.

Sorted :tsu:

Its a dam shame more people are not able to comprehend the utter foolishness of the way they allow themselves to be manipulated by their political affiliations. Your idea about getting rid of the political parties is very wise and it is a wonderful idea. However, I doubt that the powers to be would ever consider such a new way of thinking about politics, if this were the 1400 or 1500 hundreds they would attempt to try you as a Witch!!! :lol: Because that kind of free thinking would be viewed as dangerous to their hold on power. :yes: 

What's really hilarious is that the individuals using this word to day don't even realize the history of the word Woke. The first recorded usage of the word was used a in a Blues song by a very famous Blues Artist Lead Belly in a Blues Song Scotsboro Boys. The song was written about 9 Black Teenagers who were accused of raping two White Women, the word Woke in the song was meant to say it was very wise to pay attention if you were in that area. Woke meant to stay alert and keep your eyes open to situation for your own safety and since that time it has been used been used many times until it morphed into what his become today. 

Thank for your comments my friend they were very inspirational.:tu:

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docyabut2
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

The word "woke" implies that to support the liberal viewpoint is to be socially aware. Woke people are heavily informed and actively involved with liberal social issues. This biased nomenclature is rooted in a belief held by some on the left that people are only conservative because they are uneducated. Some of the most woke—socially informed and engaged—people I know are woke from the right. I know conservatives who watch the news 24/7 and don’t let a single current event slip their notice. Conservatism is not about being misinformed and being woke is not about liberalism. 

Such a usage of language is merely one example of rampant political polarization in the United States. We fail to realize that people are more than their votes for Joe Biden or Donald Trump. People have families, friends, hobbies, passions, thoughts, and priorities. A Trump voter is not necessarily a raving racist, and a Clinton voter is not necessarily trying to leech off your hard-earned money.If you are shaking your head right now, I implore you to pause for a moment. Can you look at yourself and label one single opinion that comprehensively defines your entire identity? I certainly hope not.

Then we should extend this same courtesy to others. So, I don’t want to be woke. I don’t want to restrict my definition of activism and intelligence to only include those who agree with me politically. I want to be open-minded and engaged. I want to be informed and passionate. I want to be an advocate and a human being beyond political issues. Maybe we can broaden the definition of “woke” to include these characteristics from both sides of the political spectrum, but until then I remain contently un-woke

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/4/6/dolgin-why-im-not-woke/

Joe Biden is on the left to support their socialism in communisn  :( he put us in a trillion dollar debt  to raised everyone`s taxes    

Edited by docyabut2
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docyabut2

Joe Biden is a liar :):)

 

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Manwon Lender
15 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

Joe Biden is on the left to support their socialism in communist  :( he put us in a trillion dollar debt  to raised everyone`s taxes    

Oh come on Docy, give him a chance he can't do any worst than Trump had done to the country and the American people.

You know I love girl, so please give it a chance.:)

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docyabut2
5 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Oh come on Docy, give him a chance he can't do any worst than Trump had done to the country and the American people.

You know I love girl, so please give it a chance.:)

Trump  has did everything to support our country, but  Joe Biden has done nothing but reverse it .

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docyabut2
Posted (edited)

When good men do nothing

The statement that "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke#"When_good_men_do_nothing"

Biden  does nothing :(:( but trump did something against the evil :) 

Edited by docyabut2
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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Xeno-Fish said:

The only thing I know about Woketheism (the cult of wokeness) is that if you don't agree, you're a "nazi" or something like that....

Racist.<_< It's a woke joke, Xeno.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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docyabut2
1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

Trump  has did everything to support our country, but  Joe Biden has done nothing but reverse it .

 but reverse any thing trump had started :) 

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

When good men do nothing

The statement that "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke#"When_good_men_do_nothing"

Biden  does nothing :(:( but trump did something against the evil :) 

Honestly Docy what did the Don actually do in the 4 years he was President. I tell you what just give me his finest achievement based on your opinion, that is not much to ask my sister!:)

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Thanks very much for the link, and I mean no offense you for suppling it.  However, any document produced by the Trump Administration has been proven  to not be a true reflection of the accomplishments described. President Trump was known for one accomplishment that no other President has ever equaled. and that is concerning the number of lies he tweeted, and publicly stated. Now, I do recognize that he did actually achieve some great things for the Country and the American people. However, his libelous nature of not being truthful, along with many other crimes he committed or had other commit at his request tarnish anything positive he did accomplish. In fact the last few months he was in office after he lost the election, he completely abandoned the needs of the American people in the middle of the worst health crisis our Nation has ever faced. In favor of his own self centered need to try to steal any election anyway possible. By spreading Conspiracy theories and using unethical people to represent his intentional misinformation and outright lies concerning his loss of the election. 

Trump's biggest accomplishments and failures from his 1-term presidency: Trump link.

Presidential historian on President Trump's final days in office: 'There's nothing in history that's remotely like this: Presidential historian Link

Will There Be a Trump Presidential Library? Don’t Count On It. Will Link. 

History won't forgive Trump's transgressions, presidential historian says: Trump's legacy Link.

 
Edited by Manwon Lender
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joc
23 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

There're so many so very proven "conservative" ideas

Please share a few. :)

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XenoFish
12 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Racist.<_< It's a woke joke, Xeno.

Sorry, my sense of humor is on life support at the moment. I figured you meant something like that.

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