A Case Against A Wuhan Lab

[Holyspirit]

 

 

Of course the government blamed it on the bats how convenient.  Yet for years the Wuhan lab was researching the Virus using bats and engineering it.  I have the full paper below it gives all the details why covid-19 is a lab virus.  As I have stated before humans kill humans 2nd to the mosquito.

Dr Li-Meng Yan is mentioned by Dr. Roland Wiesendanger repeatedly. He cites many who were involved with covid-19 as the paper goes into depth regarding the nature of its origin. He does an excellent job with covid-19 history sourcing the timeline and background on how we got here.

In fact covid-19 came from a special bat that lived in cave 2000 kilometers away from Wuhan that was brought to the lab. That sort of bat was not even sold at the wet markets and in the beginning of the infection not a single person was at the wet market who became infected. Wiesendanger shows a cover up by China as well at the Wuhan lab by trying to remove and delete a scientist from ever working at the lab. Yet they were not thorough enough. The scientist had evidence for Wuhan labs being the epicenter of covid-19 being that it was doing sars-covid research with bats for 10 years. Furthermore it was known that the level 4 lab was not safe enough and there were many mistakes regarding security at the lab. It's well documented in the past that this lab was lax on security and that the scientists were working with bats and covid for many years as there are many papers regarding this.

I'm no virologist, but what I think Wuhan labs scientist achieved was that they used a bat from a cave along with the virus to link to human cells. The scientist engineered how the virus gains entry to a human cell and its replication from the bat virus. This research in virology is called gain of function.

Then due to a horrible mistake at the lab at about October of 2019 one of the scientists fell ill and here we are today. In October Wuhan lab put up a security wall and something regarding the cell phone data during those month's was very unusual according to Wiesendanger. The subsequent cover up and many gain of function scientists hurriedly fell inline with China stating the virus made an evolutionary leap from nature. Neither theories are proven, but the race to say if you believe the obvious that the virus came from the lab where science has been studying covid-19 with bats for a decade with lax security makes you conspiracy theorist leaves me astonished by how many tout this crap.

To the reader I believe I found the source of Covid-19 courtesy of Wiesendanger. What we are going through at the moment is the realization we all have little time. I cope with it by knowing there is something beyond life. I prayed today sure this world is sad, but it helps to know I'm loved beyond this dimension. Believe, be kind, share and love take care. Oh yes the world is not always sad look at your big blue sky or go meditate in a bit of nature go find it.

Quote

 

TAIPEI (Taiwan News) — A new study based on a year of research by a German physicist has concluded that the Wuhan coronavirus started with an accident at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV).

Well-suited for hACE2 receptors

The researcher claimed that the SARS-CoV-2 virus is \"astonishingly effective\" at binding to human receptor cells (hACE2). He said this is due to its special hACE2 binding domains paired with the furin cleavage sites of the virus' telltale spike protein.

He stated that this is the first time a coronavirus has exhibited both characteristics and that it points to a \"non-natural origin.\" Within the betacoronaviruses of sarbecovirus lineage B, the polybasic furin cleavage site is unique to SARS-CoV-2, according to News Medical Life Sciences.
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4134301

 

 

Dr. Roland Wiesendanger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Wiesendanger

"Study on the Origin of the Coronavirus Pandemic."
The link below full pdf paper
https://drive.google.com/file/d/159xDU7cQ1LrTH2IP1LBbLqBTy6WXyUZi/view?usp=sharing

[+OverSword]

Four hour video?  Well I already believe it originated in that lab so I'll skip the vid.

[the13bats]

Unproven speculation belongs in the CT section.

[spartan max2]

24 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Unproven speculation belongs in the CT section.

The WHO hasen't ruled it out as one of the possible origins. 

If only proven things can be posted out of the conspiracy section than that gets rid of most of the politics section 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by spartan max2

[Holyspirit]

19 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Unproven speculation belongs in the CT section.

This Doctor of Virology offers evidence which points to Wuhan lab as the source of the Pandemic during an interview.

 

[the13bats]

6 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

The WHO hasen't ruled it out as an option.

If only proven things can be posted out of the conspiracy section than that gets rid of most of the politics section 

 

and the U.S. political section is a garbage dump of CT posted by sore losers .

 

WHO keeping all options open isnt proof its open minded thinking.

As much as some wish it was and others believe it is, youtube clickbait isnt an accredited scientific source.

Back up claims with published for peer review scientific works, not self promoted agendas.

If a person has proof covid was made in a lab post it, if they believe it was released be it accident or on purpose prove it, theories? Some have theories the earth is flat and trump really won 2020.

 

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, the13bats said:

and the U.S. political section is a garbage dump of CT posted by sore losers .

 

WHO keeping all options open isnt proof its open minded thinking.

As much as some wish it was and others believe it is, youtube clickbait isnt an accredited scientific source.

Back up claims with published for peer review scientific works, not self promoted agendas.

If a person has proof covid was made in a lab post it, if they believe it was released be it accident or on purpose prove it, theories? Some have theories the earth is flat and trump really won 2020.

 

The WHO pretty much said China hasen't given them enough access to information to rule it out.

Theoretically, the lab theory should of been easy proven false or true. But they can't due to China not cooperating.

It makes it pretty suspect.

Edited May 3, 2021 by spartan max2

[Knob Oddy]

3 minutes ago, the13bats said:

and the U.S. political section is a garbage dump of CT posted by sore losers .

 

WHO keeping all options open isnt proof its open minded thinking.

As much as some wish it was and others believe it is, youtube clickbait isnt an accredited scientific source.

Back up claims with published for peer review scientific works, not self promoted agendas.

If a person has proof covid was made in a lab post it, if they believe it was released be it accident or on purpose prove it, theories? Some have theories the earth is flat and trump really won 2020.

 

Just curious. Why do you discount that an institute, which was studying and manipulating bat caronavirus' exactly in the epicenter of a bat caronavirus outbreak, could be the cause of the outbreak?

[+OverSword]

36 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Unproven speculation belongs in the CT section.

It's not a conspiracy theory.  the WHO is investigating the possibility of a lab leak.  Many virologists back a lab leak possibility.  Elimination of possibilities through investigation is science.  Sorry that you made your mind up and are too stubborn to possibly think there is a chance you were wrong, but what you are doing is the conspiracy theory.

[the13bats]

I see the normal flies are buzzing and mullet jumping so here you go.

I never said that covid wasnt studied or even created in a lab and was by accident or on purpose released what i say and at this moment since i dont have alternative agendas is i have seen no proof to support the claims made by some,  theories and speculations are not proof, clickbait video isnt proof and a waste of time.

So....to repeat...

27 minutes ago, the13bats said:

Back up claims with published for peer review scientific works, not self promoted agendas.

If a person has proof covid was made in a lab post it, if they believe it was released be it accident or on purpose prove it, theories? Some have theories the earth is flat and trump really won 2020.

That covers my thoughts and until something new is posted im done here.

By all means rant and rave about me all you want.

Edited May 3, 2021 by the13bats
i am the typo king

[Holyspirit]

6 minutes ago, the13bats said:

I see the normal flies sre buzzing and mullet jumping so here you go.

I never said that covid wasnt studied or even created in a lab and was by accident or on purpose released what i say and at this moment since i dont have alternative agendas is i have seen no proof to support the claims made by some,  theories and speculations are not proof, clickbait video isnt proof and a waste of time.

So....to repeat...

That covers my thoughts and until something new is posted im done here.

By all means rant and rave about me all you want.

I have provided circumstantial evidence from two Doctors and within their reports is greater basis of claims of evidence that points to a Wuhan lab which out weighs the theory of a leap from nature.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Tom O'Neil

[+OverSword]

5 minutes ago, the13bats said:

i have seen no proof to support the claims made by some

And are not qualified to recognize it if you do.  

[the13bats]

   ^^^ ad hominem 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by the13bats

[TigerBright19]

Last year when it was first suggested that it came from a Wuhan lab the BBC were quick to rule it out and said it was not even worth considering, despite the fact that no external investigation had been done.  That alone made me suspect it was a lab leak and the BBC's complacency and arrogance to quickly dismiss it and not even acknowledge the remote possibility that it was a lab leak could indicate that they were bought by the Chinese government to keep their mouth shut so that the BBC could continue to broadcast in China.  What is interesting is that in February the BBC was finally banned from China.  Makes you wonder what was going on behind closed doors in 2020 and 2021.  One minute the BBC were pro China and denounced the lab leak, and now this year their relationship has resulted in the BBC getting banned from China.

 

China bans BBC news.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-56030340

 

Friendship between nations and news organizations.  i.e. paid propaganda.  Goebbels wasn't the only one.

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by TigerBright19

[Grim Reaper 6]

@the13bats Bats it isn't worth the energy to argue about this issue, these is no scientific proof that supports the Lab theory. In fact all the Scientific evidence points in the opposite direct. I dont blame anyone for supporting these theories, but I certainly feel that media manipulation plays a major role in this. I also agree that the reason people will except these Conspiracy Theories is because it is easier to do so than to do any actual personal research on the subject. I mean research requires a real interest in what has occurred not just something that supports an uninformed personal perception of events.

So Bats, in the end I think it useless to try and convince anyone about something that they have already made up their minds about. I also think that ignorance is truly a blissful state of mind!!

Take care my friend

[Nosy.Matters]

Conspiracy

 . .

until it's true.

Interesting word.

[Grim Reaper 6]

20 minutes ago, Nosy.Matters said:

Conspiracy

 . .

until it's true.

Interesting word.

You know my friend, I absolutely loves your droll sense of humor every time I read one of posts it makes my entire day brighter. So, only for you I post proof that the entire Lab theory is a conspiracy theory and nothing else. I have researched this subject since the very beginning of this Pandemic and I have saved more then 100 links on topics concerning Covid19. I have put together a group of topics that show how foolish this claim is. The biggest problem that the Conspiracy therorist have is that  first the infections from this Virus started in the country side a great distance from Wuhan.

Next, the first infections were not detected in Dec 2019, they were actually first reported in September 2019. Now considering that the first infections where not located in Wuhan or even close to it, how could a Lab leak in Wuhan have caused infections so far away, and not created infections in Wuhan first. Below is a previous post I made in another thread, I see no reason to not use it here. 

Ok I wanted to assemble some papers presented by different members of the Academic Community. I do not believe that COVID 19 was the end result of  laboratory experimentation that some escaped from the Biocontainment Level 4 Research Laboratory located in Wuhan, China. I have come to this conclusion because I have done a great deal of research on the subject and collected articles and papers written on the subject over the last year and a half. The one key factor that has jumped on a number of occasions is that general idea that the Virus was first detected in Wuhan in Dec 2019 is not accurate. According to information I have assembled the Virus was first detected as early as September 2019, many miles from Wuhan and apparently it left a trail from where it was first located to Wuhan. some of the papers located near the bottom of the links are Peer Reviewed Scientific investigations into the genetics of this Virus, and they go some very convincing detail that according to them this virus is a naturally occurring Zoonic Coronavirus.

With the information I have provided below, anyone interested can form an educated opinion of this subject.

Coronavirus Outbreak May Have Started as Early as September, Scientists Say:

Coronavirus Outbreak May Have Started as Early as September, Scientists Say (newsweek.com)

1st known case of coronavirus traced back to November in China:

1st known case of coronavirus traced back to November in China | Live Science

France's early COVID-19 case may hold clues to pandemic's start:

France's early COVID-19 case may hold clues to pandemic's start | Reuters

Intelligence report warned of coronavirus crisis as early as November: Sources US Defense Intelligence Agency. Intelligence report warned of coronavirus crisis as early as November: Sources - ABC News (go.com)

The pangolin’s revenge: SARS-CoV-2 did not emerge from a lab but from wildlife exploitation

079_082_Cazzolla (oekom.de)

Escaping Pandora’s Box — Another Novel Coronavirus

Escaping Pandora’s Box — Another Novel Coronavirus | NEJM

A Proposed Origin for SARS-CoV-2 and the COVID-19 Pandemic

(PDF) A Proposed Origin for SARS-CoV-2 and the COVID-19 Pandemic https://www.independentsciencenews.org/commentaries/a-proposed-origin-for-sars-cov- 2-and-the-covid-19-pandemic (researchgate.net)

Edited April 25 by Manwon Lender

•  

Edited May 4, 2021 by Manwon Lender

[Nosy.Matters]

5 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

You know my friend, I absolutely loves your droll sense of humor every time I read one of posts it makes my entire day brighter. So, only for you I post proof that the entire Lab theory is a conspiracy theory and nothing else. I have researched this subject since the very beginning of this Pandemic and I have saved more then 100 links on topics concerning Covid19. I have put together a group of topics that show how foolish this claim is. The biggest problem that the Conspiracy therorist have is that  first the infections from this Virus started in the country side a great distance from Wuhan.

Next, the first infections were not detected in Dec 2019, they were actually first reported in September 2019. Now considering that the first infections where not located in Wuhan or even close to it, how could a Lab leak in Wuhan have caused infections so far away, and not created infections in Wuhan first. Below is a previous post I made in another thread, I see no reason to not use it here. 

Friend, other notes of interest,

Feng Zhang , first use CRISPR as tool to edit genes in 2015 C.E. |n the states, the public on the eastern sea board where talking about it at functions/symposiums ah parties Apx.: 2018~2019. Then naturally it was common knowledge by 2020 C.E.
Additional note: A Repeating DNA Sequence was reportedly being looked at in various labs all over the world in 1997.

 

i think at this juncture man can do anything in that field.

 

UPDATE, true . . " actually first reported in September 2019. Now considering that the first infections where not located in Wuhan or even close to it, how could a Lab leak in Wuhan have caused infections so far away, and not created infections in Wuhan first. "

Edited May 4, 2021 by Nosy.Matters

[Grim Reaper 6]

 I understand your point and on the surface it makes sense however it is actually a flawed concept for the following reasons. 

1) Where did Bats get the Coronavirus: It appears that bats are the reservoir hosts of this coronavirus, it probably co-evolved with them over millions of years of their evolutionary history. Recent research has found that coronaviruses and bats had been coexisting for at least 10,000 years, probably for hundreds of thousands of years, and possibly millions of years. Fish are at the sort of base of the vertebrate evolutionary tree, they evolved about 500 million years ago and all vertebrates have come from that lineage. So fish virus's tend to be the ancestors of all Virus's today that infect all other vertebratates, such as birds, mammals, and reptiles. To make this clear fish have even been found to carry the genetic relatives of both HIV and Ebola viruses. https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-04-09/how-did-coronavirus-start-where-did-bats-get-covid-19-from/12132312

2) Why wouldn't a Virology Lab not have  bat related virus that was know to previously evolve (perhaps from another animal) into SARS and MARS:  Since it has been determined that Bats are the actual reservoir host where all Coronavirus actually evolved there would not be any need to have mutated forms of the Virus from other animals. Especially because it is still unknown which animal was infected that allowed the Virus to break the animal / human boundary. To get to humans it would have to cross a metaphorical valley, to genetically adapt to be transmissible between humans. SARS-CoV-2 or COVID19 is 96 per cent similar genetically to a bat coronavirus. 

And both SARS-CoV-1, the virus which caused the SARS outbreak in 2003, and MERS‐CoV, the virus that causes MERS, are found in bats. Both these viruses jumped to humans via an intermediate, in the case of SARS via civet cats, and with MERS a couple of times via camels. We don't know pangolins are the intermediate [between bats and humans], but it's clear they obviously have a similar virus, so pangolins could be the break through animal for COVID19. https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-04-09/how-did-coronavirus-start-where-did-bats-get-covid-19-from/12132312    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/05/200506133614.htm

3) Virology research labs won't use natural occurring viruses as a starting point: This statement is completely inaccurate, when ever a Novel Virus appears upon the scene, the first thing scientists do is try to find the viral reservoir. This is because the pure unmutated strain of the Virus is most important in developing Vaccines. The only reason it's important to find the intermediate animal that the Virus jump to humans from is because that same animal could allow future viruses to also jump to humans. However that animal is not important in finding a cure, only the main reservoir ( Bats ) is needed for that.  https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-04-09/how-did-coronavirus-start-where-did-bats-get-covid-19-from/12132312

4) The idea the virus came from a bat in no way excludes it escaping (after being modified) from a government lab: The genetic makeup or “genome” of SARS-CoV-2 has been sequenced and publicly shared thousands of times by scientists all over the world. If the virus had been genetically engineered in a lab there would be signs of manipulation in the genome data. This would include evidence of an existing viral sequence as the backbone for the new virus, and obvious, targeted inserted (or deleted) genetic elements.

 But no such evidence exists. It is very unlikely that any techniques used to genetically engineer the virus would not leave a genetic signature, like specific identifiable pieces of DNA code.

The genome of SARS-CoV-2 is similar to that of other bat coronaviruses, as well as those of pangolins, all of which have a similar overall genomic architecture. Differences between the genomes of these coronaviruses show natural patterns typical of coronavirus evolution. This suggests that SARS-CoV-2 evolved from a previous wild coronavirus.

 

So at the end of the day when everything is looked from the science involved to makes a decision. It's very obvious that Covid19 was a naturally occurring Virus that was either transmitted to humans directly from the Horseshoe Bat or by an intermediate animal at this time that has not been positively identified. While the WHO says there is a very very unlikely chance the Virus cane from a Lab. 

This is because of the politics involved, some very influential people were sucked in by the Conspiracy Theories that have circulated from the beginning of this Pandemic and that were further blown out of proportion by our last President. An organization like the WHO must be politically correct when they make a statement.

So even thought they know this Virus did not escape from a Lab the Director of The Who said there was a very very unlikely chance it did to placate those who believe the Conspiracy Theories, while they actually continue their research in the areas where the real answers can be found.

Take Care, and just a foot note. I don't care if you believe me or not, no one else on this forum has proven me wrong to date on this subject. If you choose to follow your convictions, fine with me. But, if you do at least do some additional research so that you are certain that you are right. If you need any research materials on this subject let's me know, I have around 100 pages on this subject I would be glad to share with anyone who is interested.

Peace to all

[Nosy.Matters]

i rest my case,< breezy levity>

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, Nosy.Matters said:

Friend, other notes of interest,

Feng Zhang , first use CRISPR as tool to edit genes in 2015 C.E. |n the states, the public on the eastern sea board where talking about it at functions/symposiums ah parties Apx.: 2018~2019. Then naturally it was common knowledge by 2020 C.E.
Additional note: A Repeating DNA Sequence was reportedly being looked at in various labs all over the world in 1997.

 

i think at this juncture man can do anything in that field.

Yet that doesnt explain that the first infections occurred in September and very far away from Wuhan. in fact if you go through the links I have supplied it clearly shows a trail from the first known infection to Wuhan and the explosive effect that occurred once the infected people reached Wuhan and spread the infect into a major population center. This occurred because the infected where looking for medical care at hospitals and Wuhan was the closest population center for them to go.

Take care my friend. Like I have said, I doubt that anyone have followed this Pandemic closer than I have on this forum. In addition this subject is part of my back ground that I have been involved in for more than 30 years. 

[Nosy.Matters]

Okay now , i hear dinner bell ringing, no seriously , i will look into your articles. Thanks, take care of yourself and i do mean that.

[Grim Reaper 6]

17 minutes ago, Nosy.Matters said:

i rest my case,< breezy levity>

You see my friend, unlike others who have a preconceived notion about where and what caused this Pandemic to occurred I have really put in enough research to form an educated theory about the chain of events that lead to this Pandemic. I have no preconceived notions or bias concerning this situation, I believe that the scientific facts should be used to form a theory and based upon that I dont believe that a Lab had anything to do with this Pandemic. However, if reliable information is presented in the future that disproves my theory,  my theory can easily change. That is what theories are designed for and that is how i approach this situation.

Take care my friend

Edited May 4, 2021 by Manwon Lender

[Horta]

2 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Just curious. Why do you discount that an institute, which was studying and manipulating bat caronavirus' exactly in the epicenter of a bat caronavirus outbreak, could be the cause of the outbreak?

There is evidence indicating the earliest known infections were in Italy (as early as Sept. 2019). There are also indications that the virus was circulating in Barcelona as early as March 2019.

That the virus originated in Wuhan is speculation in itself. It was first discovered in Wuhan, but that doesn't mean it originated there.

 

Quote

"Our results indicate that SARS-CoV-2 circulated in Italy earlier than the first official COVID-19 cases were diagnosed in Lombardy, even long before the first official reports from the Chinese authorities, casting new light on the onset and spread of the COVID-19 pandemic," the authors wrote in the study. 

 

[Grim Reaper 6]

11 minutes ago, Nosy.Matters said:

Okay now , i hear dinner bell ringing, no seriously , i will look into your articles. Thanks, take care of yourself and i do mean that.

Thank you and the same to you. I hope this post find you and family safe, health, and very happy.

Peace man