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Manwon Lender

[Merged] World War II - Hidden History

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)

On December 16, 1944, the German Army began the Ardennes offensive known as the Battle of the Bulge.  On December 17, 113 American soldiers surrendered to a German armored column under the command of SS Colonel Joachim Peiper [variant: Piper]. After the American prisoners were disarmed, they were assembled in a field near Malmedy, Belgium, and shot. The German soldiers involved in this massacre of the American prisoners were later prosecuted by the U.S. Army for war crimes in 1946 in what is known as the Malmedy Massacre Trial.Malmedy Massacre Investigation: Military Legal Resources (Federal Research Division: Customized Research and Analytical Services, Library of Congress) (loc.gov) 

By the time the war ended, the U.S. public knew all about the Malmedy massacre and clamored for revenge. On May 16, 1946, a year after the end of hostilities in Europe, Peiper and seventy of his men (almost one in ten of the surviving members of Kampfgruppe Peiper) were placed on trial for war crimes connected with the massacre. The trials were deliberately held on the site of the Dachau concentration camp, to garner maximum symbolism from the event. Not all of the presumed guilty could be punished—both Major Poetschke and Sergeant Beutner died in action during the war.

But at the end of the proceedings, all seventy of the SS men, as well as Peiper, had been convicted of war crimes by a six-man panel of U.S. officers. Forty-three of them, including Peiper, were sentenced to die by hanging, twenty-two to life imprisonment, and the rest to ten- to twenty-year sentences. However, the trials were tainted by later testimony that the SS men had been tortured by U.S. interrogators (see “The First Guantanamo”) before their trials. All of the death sentences were commuted to imprisonment and, in 1956, Jochen Peiper became the last member of the group to walk out of jail. 65 Years Later: The Malmedy Massacre, December 17, 1944 | History News Network

Edited by Saru
Video removed due to graphic content
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susieice
Posted (edited)

I read books about this and the stories from the few survivors were horrifying. The SS just rounded them up together and then mowed them down. I knew about Peiper's release. I didn't know he had such an illustrious career after that, but I did read about his death. 

He had moved to France, where the book I read, said he spent time translating books and papers to English. Peiper spoke English very well. Even during the war. Some of the people in the French village found out who he was. In the end, they burned his house to the ground with him in it. A fitting end I'd say.

Here's an article I found about his post prison life. This gives much more detail than my book did. The book was focused on the Massacre at Malmedy. IIRC, Peiper led the deepest penetrating spearhead into the allied lines in the Battle of the Bulge, before the allies turned the offensive back.

https://durangoherald.com/articles/374534

Edited by susieice
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Manwon Lender
1 minute ago, susieice said:

I read books about this and the stories from the few survivors were horrifying. The SS just rounded them up together and then mowed them down. I knew about Peiper's release. I didn't know he had such an illustrious career after that, but I did read about his death. 

He had moved to France, where the book I read, said he spent time translating books and papers to English. Peiper spoke English very well. Even during the war. Some of the people in the French village found out who he was. In the end, they burned his house to the ground with him in it. A fitting end I'd say.

Here's an article I found about his post prison life.

https://durangoherald.com/articles/374534

I totally agree with you, Peipers end was just and very fitting. I love history, especially military history and WWII shaped all of the Worlds military tactics even today. What they called Blitzkreg ( lightening War ) changed Warfare forever. I am going to start more threads concerning little known events that occurred during the War, hopefully more members will get involved.

Thanks very much for your comments I appreciate them:tu:

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susieice
8 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I totally agree with you, Peipers end was just and very fitting. I love history, especially military history and WWII shaped all of the Worlds military tactics even today. What they called Blitzkreg ( lightening War ) changed Warfare forever. I am going to start more threads concerning little known events that occurred during the War, hopefully more members will get involved.

Thanks very much for your comments I appreciate them:tu:

I'm a history buff who went through a period of about 5 years where I read everything about the ETO in WWII that I could get my hands on. I read about the Warsaw Ghetto, the concentration camps and the German POW camps in the US. I just got really into it. 

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)

This plane has been recently called “Hitler’s Stealth fighter”, despite the fact that the plane’s stealth capacities may have been accidental. As per William Green, creator of “Warplanes of the Third Reich,” the Ho 229 was the first “flying wing” aircraft with a jet engines. Engineers of the Northrop-Grumman Corporation began restoration at Storage Facility on the outskirts of Washington DC in Suitland, Maryland. In the late 1970s and beginning of the 1980s, data started to break to the media that the United States was doing some important work on airplanes with stealth innovation.   It was eventually added to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum’s collection. Decades after the war, engineers from Northrop supposedly studied the surviving Ho-229. Its design helped inform the development of the B-2 stealth bomber

The only surviving Horten Ho 229 - "Hitler's Stealth fighter" (warhistoryonline.com)

 

 

 

Enjoy.

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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ted hughes
29 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

This plane has been recently called “Hitler’s Stealth fighter”, despite the fact that the plane’s stealth capacities may have been accidental. As per William Green, creator of “Warplanes of the Third Reich,” the Ho 229 was the first “flying wing” aircraft with a jet engines. Engineers of the Northrop-Grumman Corporation began restoration at Storage Facility on the outskirts of Washington DC in Suitland, Maryland. In the late 1970s and beginning of the 1980s, data started to break to the media that the United States was doing some important work on airplanes with stealth innovation.   It was eventually added to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum’s collection. Decades after the war, engineers from Northrop supposedly studied the surviving Ho-229. Its design helped inform the development of the B-2 stealth bomber

The only surviving Horten Ho 229 - "Hitler's Stealth fighter" (warhistoryonline.com)

 

 

 

Enjoy.

 

The bottom video is so rare it isn't even real!

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, susieice said:

I'm a history buff who went through a period of about 5 years where I read everything about the ETO in WWII that I could get my hands on. I read about the Warsaw Ghetto, the concentration camps and the German POW camps in the US. I just got really into it. 

My mother and father immigrated from Germany in the early 1950s, and my father worked for the US Government until the early 1970s when he retired. I was the first American Citizen in my family and we had no other relatives in the United States. So yea the history of WWII was actual part of my families history. Like you I have always been a history buff, but the history of WWII holds a special place for me. It amazes me to this day what men can and will do to their fellow man if left unchecked. I cant even imagine the horrible way some many people were killed, it makes me sick to even think about it. During my Military Career, I was stationed in Karlsruhe, Germany and while there I went to Dachau Concentration Camp that was sponsored by the unit I was in. 

That dam place was so creepy, the day we went it was cloudy and raining. When you enter the camp, you enter through the original metal gate, and at the top of the gate in large letters it says Arbeit Macht Frei, which translated means, Work Will Free.  At Ft. Lewis, Washington there was a German POW Camp during the 1940s. Some of the soldiers died in captivity and they were buried in the Ft. Lewis Military Cemetery, with American war dead. That actually kind of surprised me, I suppose our Government just viewed them as soldiers. 

Here is a link that talks about the German POWs buried at Ft. Lewis: WWII POWs at Fort Lewis - Online Newspapers - Northwest Military - Home of The Ranger, NW Airlifter & Weekly Volcano

This the gate you enter Dachau through, and I believe this was a standard theme at most of the other Concentrations Camps.

See the source image

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ted hughes

The worst of it is that after the Battle of Stalingrad was lost, WW2 was effectively over. I think only Hitler couldn't see it.

Certainly the Battle of the Bulge was a wasted effort, as well as defending fortress Berlin at the end.

What a waste of lives ( not that any of the rest of it was an effective use of lives. Hitler should have nibbled away at his Lebensraum by diplomatic stealth, not war ). 

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, ted hughes said:

The bottom video is so rare it isn't even real!

Yes the bottom video is actual footage from a German Test flight during WWII. The reason I started this thread was because most people don't realize that the US captured the only facilities that were producing these Jet Aircraft. It's also interesting to note that the Germans didn't realize that the aircrafts design alone decreased its radar signature until the first test flight. During the flight they were tracking the aircraft on radar, and they were amazed about the signature they were receiving. 

In the 1960s when Northrop-Grumman discovered that these aircraft existed, they started to restore one of three that were captured in Germany in 1945. This was the start of the Stealth aircraft programs in the United States, with the end result being the Stealth Fighter and the Stealth Bomber. It's amazing that those programs started with a design that was a proto-type built and flown in Germany during WWII.

take Care my friend

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Manwon Lender
53 minutes ago, ted hughes said:

The worst of it is that after the Battle of Stalingrad was lost, WW2 was effectively over. I think only Hitler couldn't see it.

Certainly the Battle of the Bulge was a wasted effort, as well as defending fortress Berlin at the end.

What a waste of lives ( not that any of the rest of it was an effective use of lives. Hitler should have nibbled away at his Lebensraum by diplomatic stealth, not war ). 

I personally think the best thing that could have happened was Hitler's death in WWI. During the war he was exposed to Mustard Gas attack that blinded him for months, if he would have only taken a deep breath it would have killed him. Can you imagine what the world would be like today if so many lives, so materials, and so much destruction had never occurred. It very possible we could already have made landings on Mars. The entire Eastern Europe would have fallen under the Soviet Unions boot. 

Take Care. 

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susieice
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

My mother and father immigrated from Germany in the early 1950s, and my father worked for the US Government until the early 1970s when he retired. I was the first American Citizen in my family and we had no other relatives in the United States. So yea the history of WWII was actual part of my families history. Like you I have always been a history buff, but the history of WWII holds a special place for me. It amazes me to this day what men can and will do to their fellow man if left unchecked. I cant even imagine the horrible way some many people were killed, it makes me sick to even think about it. During my Military Career, I was stationed in Karlsruhe, Germany and while there I went to Dachau Concentration Camp that was sponsored by the unit I was in. 

That dam place was so creepy, the day we went it was cloudy and raining. When you enter the camp, you enter through the original metal gate, and at the top of the gate in large letters it says Arbeit Macht Frei, which translated means, Work Will Free.  At Ft. Lewis, Washington there was a German POW Camp during the 1940s. Some of the soldiers died in captivity and they were buried in the Ft. Lewis Military Cemetery, with American war dead. That actually kind of surprised me, I suppose our Government just viewed them as soldiers. 

Here is a link that talks about the German POWs buried at Ft. Lewis: WWII POWs at Fort Lewis - Online Newspapers - Northwest Military - Home of The Ranger, NW Airlifter & Weekly Volcano

This the gate you enter Dachau through, and I believe this was a standard theme at most of the other Concentrations Camps.

See the source image

I lived for a year and a half or so in Houlton, Maine right after I got married. They had a German prisoner of war camp there too. I was in my WWII reading spree at that time. It's been about 30-35 years but I still remember a lot. There was a man who lived there that showed me some things he had, like a letter opener that had the swastika on it and some old newspapers. He told me about how SS were separated in the camps from Wehrmacht troops because they would harass them. He told me about a farmer who lives there who often takes his family to Germany to visit one of the former POWs and vice versa. I wonder if they still do. I doubt it. They would be in their 90s by now if they are still living. Perhaps the children still have a friendship.

https://thecounty.me/2018/07/29/news/community/photographs-offer-new-insights-into-houlton-pow-camp/

As I see names and places, I can remember. Arbeit Macht Frei was over the Auschwitz entrance also. Dachau was one of the first camps used mostly for political prisoners in the beginning iirc. There are so many pictures that were taken by the army at the time of liberation. From the time Eisenhower entered Buchenwald, he was determined to document everything, and he did. Through photographs and film. He even sent a letter to Washington asking Congress to send a delegation and see for themselves what they found. The reporters who traveled with the armies at that time also documented the camps. How can people today deny this happened? 

I have German ancestry through my maternal grandmother and great grandmother, but French from my mother's father and great grandfather and back. British from my dad's family.

Edited by susieice

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ted hughes
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Yes the bottom video is actual footage from a German Test flight during WWII. The reason I started this thread was because most people don't realize that the US captured the only facilities that were producing these Jet Aircraft. It's also interesting to note that the Germans didn't realize that the aircrafts design alone decreased its radar signature until the first test flight. During the flight they were tracking the aircraft on radar, and they were amazed about the signature they were receiving. 

In the 1960s when Northrop-Grumman discovered that these aircraft existed, they started to restore one of three that were captured in Germany in 1945. This was the start of the Stealth aircraft programs in the United States, with the end result being the Stealth Fighter and the Stealth Bomber. It's amazing that those programs started with a design that was a proto-type built and flown in Germany during WWII.

take Care my friend

On YouTube it says:

Attention: In this video fictitious facts are related in order to entertain. Enjoy! First of all, I want to thank Pilicast for his video "How to Make War Thunder Look Like a WWII Documentary (Premiere)" as his video helped me a lot in making this video possible. Pilicast Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkJW... The next thing I want to improve is to add an intro, outro and sound. I will try to cover the most iconic and rare vehicles of the WW2 and recreate real events if possible but I find fictional events more fun to do. Any feedback it is well received!

so that is why I doubt it is genuine. It would be nice if it was real.

Edited by ted hughes
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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, susieice said:

I lived for a year and a half or so in Houlton, Maine right after I got married. They had a German prisoner of war camp there too. I was in my WWII reading spree at that time. It's been about 30-35 years but I still remember a lot. There was a man who lived there that showed me some things he had, like a letter opener that had the swastika on it and some old newspapers. He told me about a farmer who lives there who often takes his family to Germany to visit one of the former POWs and vice versa. I wonder if they still do.

https://thecounty.me/2018/07/29/news/community/photographs-offer-new-insights-into-houlton-pow-camp/

As I see names and places, I can remember.

I have German ancestry through my maternal grandmother and great grandmother, but French from my mother's father and great grandfather and back. British from my dad's family.

That was a real good article, thanks for providing it. The POW Camp on Ft. Lewis is completely gone, the only reason I found out about it, was because I had soldiers putting small American Flags on graves for Memorial Day, and I went down to check out the Cemtary and that's when I saw the German Graves. So I went back and did some research and found out about the POW Camp. My family came from Flensberg Germany, which is located very close to Norway.

My heritage is German Norwegian, on both my mothers and fathers sides, my mom, had beautiful blond hair and Blue eyes, and my dad had sandy blond hair and blues. Now what's very funny is I born with Black hair, and my eyes turned emerald green, I found out that I had the same traits as my grandfather. It's funny how things like that work out, but there is nothing wrong with being different,

Edited by Manwon Lender

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susieice
Posted (edited)

I remember reading about this one. The first jet.

 

Also this one. It was a dive bomber. I read a book by a man who piloted one of these on the Eastern Front. Hans Ulrich.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87

Edited by susieice
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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, ted hughes said:

On YouTube it says:

Attention: In this video fictitious facts are related in order to entertain. Enjoy! First of all, I want to thank Pilicast for his video "How to Make War Thunder Look Like a WWII Documentary (Premiere)" as his video helped me a lot in making this video possible. Pilicast Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkJW... The next thing I want to improve is to add an intro, outro and sound. I will try to cover the most iconic and rare vehicles of the WW2 and recreate real events if possible but I find fictional events more fun to do. Any feedback it is well received!

so that is why I doubt it is genuine. It would be nice if it was real.

I dont think that is the case with the video I uploaded. I did a little checking on the guy who posted the video I up loaded and his academic credentials in my opinion would not allow something posted by him to be faked. However, what ever you choose to believe is fine with me, but i must say I don't agree with you. 

Here the his credentials:

Alexander Degtyarev (1951-2020) (iafastro.org)

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Manwon Lender
54 minutes ago, susieice said:

I remember reading about this one. The first jet.

 

Also this one. It was a dive bomber. I read a book by a man who piloted one of these on the Eastern Front. Hans Ulrich.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87

That is a great video thanks for sharing it, I always loved these aircraft.

For their time they were so far ahead in both speed and maneuverability. These aircraft could have been in production in 1942, but Hitler did not think Jets were worth the effort to produce he was more interested in building bombers.

 

Below is the first operational Jet Bomber, this aircraft was way beyond it's time. The late models even had a pressurize crews cabin.

 

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toast

We were all very lucky that a.) Hitler was a simple minded infantry guy (big cannons, big vessels, big tanks, bigbigbig) and not a high technology nerd from the beginning on of his reign, and b.) that fat Göring failed to manage the Luftwaffe to perfection. Just think if these technologies had been developed in Nazi Germany 10 years earlier because its the same kind of military high technology which are the pillars of superior military technology of today, like ICBMs, cruise missiles, stealth aircrafts, supersonic aircrafts, guided bombs and nukes. Horror.

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toast

Northrop Grumman made a full size rebuild to test its radar signature and the guys were amazed about the result.

 

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Manwon Lender
24 minutes ago, toast said:

We were all very lucky that a.) Hitler was a simple minded infantry guy (big cannons, big vessels, big tanks, bigbigbig) and not a high technology nerd from the beginning on of his reign, and b.) that fat Göring failed to manage the Luftwaffe to perfection. Just think if these technologies had been developed in Nazi Germany 10 years earlier because its the same kind of military high technology which are the pillars of superior military technology of today, like ICBMs, cruise missiles, stealth aircrafts, supersonic aircrafts, guided bombs and nukes. Horror.

There is little doubt what would have occurred if Hitler wasn't a real fool. Lets face it, the more he involved himself in the actual planning of military operations the more failed. Then he blamed his Generals for his own mistakes, like you said my thank God they did develop the technology they were capable of because most likely they would have won the war.

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Manwon Lender
10 minutes ago, toast said:

Northrop Grumman made a full size rebuild to test its radar signature and the guys were amazed about the result.

 

I have seen the video and it's great, it also leaves little doubt where Americas stealth technology came from. If you search the subject online you will not find any information saying that the United States used this aircraft to develop their stealth technology. In 1945 the US Military captured the factory that was producing the Horten Ho-229, the US took a number of aircraft and all the parts they could find and then destroyed the rest. They did this because they did not want the remaining aircraft to fall into Russian hands. What's interesting is the main portion of the aircraft was built in one location and the wings were built at a different location. But, the American military got lucky and actually captured a complete set of wings for one aircraft.

Anyway my friend, this is another interesting story that many people know nothing about!:tu:

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ted hughes
2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

There is little doubt what would have occurred if Hitler wasn't a real fool. Lets face it, the more he involved himself in the actual planning of military operations the more failed. Then he blamed his Generals for his own mistakes, like you said my thank God they did develop the technology they were capable of because most likely they would have won the war.

The allies weren't convinced assassinating Hitler would be a good idea. Hitler dead would be a propaganda coup, but alive he was a military asset to the allies: Britain Reveals Plot to Kill Hitler - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

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ted hughes

My grandfather was responsible for downing 35 German planes in World War 2. He still holds the record as the worst mechanic the Luftwaffe ever had.

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Manwon Lender
6 hours ago, ted hughes said:

The allies weren't convinced assassinating Hitler would be a good idea. Hitler dead would be a propaganda coup, but alive he was a military asset to the allies: Britain Reveals Plot to Kill Hitler - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

That may be true, but like I said in a previous post if he was killed in WWI things could have been completely different. 

Take care dude

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Manwon Lender

In 1955 a new German Army was created, the Bundeswehr. A number of WW2-era German generals and admirals were enlisted to command and shape this new force, including four Knight's Cross holders. Following World War II the Allies dissolved the Wehrmacht with all its branches on 20 August 1946. However already one year after the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany in May 1949 and because of its increasing links with the West under German chancellor Konrad Adenauer, the Consultative Assembly of Europe began to consider the formation of a European Defense Community with German participation on 11 August 1950. Former high- ranking  Wehrmacht officers outlined in the Himmerorder Memorandum a plan for a "German contingent in an international force for the defense of Western Europe." For the German land forces the memorandum envisioned the formation of a 250,000 strong army. The officers saw the need for the formation of twelve Panzer Divisions and six corps staffs with accompanying Corps troops, as only armored divisions could muster a fighting force to throw back the numerically far superior forces of the Warsaw Pact. For decades former Nazi Generals were appoint to the highest positions in the New German Bundeswehr  in the highest echelons of NATO European Command. These men were highly decorated former members of the German Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe and the Krieg's Marine.

German Army - Wikipedia

Nazi war criminals became high ranking commanders in NATO after WW2 (dispropaganda.com)

 


 

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