Vaccination Boondoggle - Why spend so much tax dollars?

[+OverSword]

So I went and got my first dose at a mass vaccination site being run by the city.  I came prepared with my insurance card so that the money I spend on insurance would fulfill it's function in our society, but when I sat down to answer the questions about allergies, pre-existing health conditions, etc. and I asked if they need my insurance ID number they said no.  I asked "It's free?" (knowing that nothing is actually free) and they said yes, nobody pays, which of course is obvious bull crap since pfizer isn't doing this for free nor I suspect was the building in which it was being done in  and that certainly must include expensive things like event insurance, water, electricity.....

With all the money WASTED by the government in the last year doing asinine things like depositing $2,400 in my bank account for absolutely no reason, why would they proceed to waste even more paying for expensive vaccinations that would be covered by the insurance that the VAST majority of us pay for and not utilize the insurance to offset costs?

Cannot wait to see how profitable it is to be a drug company this year.  On top of all this huge needless waste of money by the government the senate is about to start talking about getting Americans the same deal for affordable drugs that the rest of the world gets.  How much you want to bet it won't go through because without our money they can't afford to do research on more and different lifesaving drugs and guess which industry donates tens of millions to both political parties?  I guarantee you our drug prices will go nowhere but up.

My two cents.  Thoughts?

[lightly]

Bingo !   This country buys economic " growth "  ...on time. Paying for it with more and more and more DEBT.   Both partys are equally guilty ...they just work for different 'interests'.     Same old story....follow the money if you want to know the TRUE reason for nearly ANY 'government' policy.

         ..including the newly conjoined Medicare/Private insurance entities.    PUBLIC MONEY INTO PRIVATE POCKETS. .      ..CORPORATISM (not socialism) rules this country.  

Edited May 4, 2021 by lightly

[+Desertrat56]

I was surprised when I got my vaccination that they did not ask for my insurance card.  The website said to be prepared to give the information, but no one asked.  I got my vaccine in an Albertson's parking lot, I am sure no one paid anything for that.  The nurses that gave the shots are paid, and someone paid for the vaccine, but you can't turn people away who have no insurance so why bother any insurance company for it?

This is the same thing that happened in the 70's when the flu vaccines were new.  There were nurses at bus stops in big cities, paid by the government, to give anyone who would have one a flu vaccine.  The army was encouraged to make sure everyone had a flu shot and it was the year Carter took office.   Something similar happened the year Obama took office, it was for the H1N1 vaccine.   This kind of thing has been going on for 50 years or more.   The pharmaceutical companies don't give anything away for free, so there was a deal made somewhere with government to pay for these vaccines just like in the past.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Desertrat56

[+OverSword]

Another thing I heard on the news this morning was that about 20,000 doses went unused in my county yesterday, which means they destroyed them.  I wonder how much money that is per dose?
 

Edited May 4, 2021 by OverSword

[+Desertrat56]

9 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Another thing I heard on the news this morning was that about 20,000 doses went unused in my county yesterday, which means they destroyed them.  I wonder how much money that is per dose?
 

Yeah, I wonder why Pfizer was allowed to make such easily ruined vaccines.  Even the Moderna is more robust, though it does expire fairly quickly too.   Imagine the cost that hospitals had to incur to get the right equipment to keep the Pfizer vaccine.  The largest hospital in the state, which is the only public hospital, which has stocks of everything, had to get a new freezer unit just for that vaccine.

[Gromdor]

The idea of making it free is so that everyone would get it without the constraint of having to worry about affording it.  The costs of not controlling this pandemic far outweigh the costs of the vaccines themselves.  

[Gromdor]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

Yeah, I wonder why Pfizer was allowed to make such easily ruined vaccines.  Even the Moderna is more robust, though it does expire fairly quickly too.   Imagine the cost that hospitals had to incur to get the right equipment to keep the Pfizer vaccine.  The largest hospital in the state, which is the only public hospital, which has stocks of everything, had to get a new freezer unit just for that vaccine.

Operation Warpspeed.  Cutting the red tape and regulations to get it out faster.  Pfizer won the race but it's vaccine is much more delicate than the second and third place contenders.

[+OverSword]

Just now, Gromdor said:

The idea of making it free is so that everyone would get it without the constraint of having to worry about affording it.  The costs of not controlling this pandemic far outweigh the costs of the vaccines themselves.  

Everybody with insurance could afford it, like any other vaccination it would have been zero out of pocket.  Uninsured would still get it for free and it would save probably billions of dollars.  WTF are we paying insurance premiums for?  The way it is now it's a payout to the insurance companies in not having to pay out money they would normally pay out and a huge payout to drug companies who are making more than can be injected before the expiration date comes and goes.  All paid for by tax payers.  There government is just being stupid, greedy and irresponsible. 

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

The idea of making it free is so that everyone would get it without the constraint of having to worry about affording it.  The costs of not controlling this pandemic far outweigh the costs of the vaccines themselves.  

Yes, that could be said now, but what about the 70's and in 2009?   By the time we got a flu vaccine the Hong Kong flu had run it's course, and even though there was a lot of hype, the H1N1 did not seem to be a pandemic, just a big news item.   Yet the behavior is the same, and as far as I am concerned all vaccinations should be free, especially if the government requires them, like DPT for 15 year olds who want to go to public school, or mumps, rubella for kindergarteners.  This shot cannot be required for the same reasons that the flu shot is not required.

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Everybody with insurance could afford it, like any other vaccination it would have been zero out of pocket.  Uninsured would still get it for free and it would save probably billions of dollars.  WTF are we paying insurance premiums for?  The way it is now it's a payout to the insurance companies in not having to pay out money they would normally pay out and a huge payout to drug companies who are making more than can be injected before the expiration date comes and goes.  All paid for by tax payers.  There government is just being stupid, greedy and irresponsible. 

Why do we even need a middle man like an insurance company for something like this for?  It would only add costs and bureaucracy. 

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Everybody with insurance could afford it, like any other vaccination it would have been zero out of pocket.  Uninsured would still get it for free and it would save probably billions of dollars.  WTF are we paying insurance premiums for?  The way it is now it's a payout to the insurance companies in not having to pay out money they would normally pay out and a huge payout to drug companies who are making more than can be injected before the expiration date comes and goes.  All paid for by tax payers.  There government is just being stupid, greedy and irresponsible. 

That is a good point.  Maybe the insurance companies have some leverage that we don't know about.  They obviously had leverage when congress finally made it mandatory for everyone to have health insurance.   The only reason that passed after 50 years is because the clause that kept the insurance companies from raising the rates (raping) their current customers was removed.

[Gromdor]

You guys do know that hospitals and medical institutions charge insurance rates and private rates separately.   The insurance rate is far higher than the private rate.  Next time you go to see a doctor ask what the private rate is as if you wanted to pay for it out of pocket.  Just tell them you are unsure if your insurance will cover it and you might opt for the out of pocket cost.  You will be surprised at the difference.  

[+OverSword]

5 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Why do we even need a middle man like an insurance company for something like this for?  It would only add costs and bureaucracy. 

A cent of bureaucracy in exchange for a paying $50 for a vaccine injection.  Give me a break, one extra piece of paper  three lines to fill out. 

• Group number
• Client number
• Carrier

All other paperwork would be the insurance carriers responsibility.  You're talking to a licensed agent fyi.

[+OverSword]

4 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

You guys do know that hospitals and medical institutions charge insurance rates and private rates separately.   The insurance rate is far higher than the private rate.  Next time you go to see a doctor ask what the private rate is as if you wanted to pay for it out of pocket.  Just tell them you are unsure if your insurance will cover it and you might opt for the out of pocket cost.  You will be surprised at the difference.  

Not for vaccinations which is why there is no out of pocket cost.  Is there a reason you think it's okay for the government to waste money?

Edited May 4, 2021 by OverSword

[Gromdor]

Just now, OverSword said:

A cent of bureaucracy in exchange for a paying $50 for a vaccine injection.  Give me a break, one extra piece of paper  three lines to fill out. 

• Group number
• Client number
• Carrier

All other paperwork would be the insurance carriers responsibility.  You're talking to a licensed agent fyi.

I still don't see why we even need insurance companies involved.  It's just an added cost and layer of bureaucracy.  What is it that you are thinking they bring positive to the table?

[+Desertrat56]

10 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

You guys do know that hospitals and medical institutions charge insurance rates and private rates separately.   The insurance rate is far higher than the private rate.  Next time you go to see a doctor ask what the private rate is as if you wanted to pay for it out of pocket.  Just tell them you are unsure if your insurance will cover it and you might opt for the out of pocket cost.  You will be surprised at the difference.  

Yeah, that is not always true.   The difference is that if you don't have insurance the doctors can write a large amount of it off, however that is not something they will tell you up front.   I have worked for doctors and there is a lot of paper work for uninsured patients, and a lot of dunning letters even when the practice knows the patient cannot pay.  AND there are now a lot of doctors who will refuse to even see you if you don't have insurance.   

[+OverSword]

4 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I still don't see why we even need insurance companies involved.  It's just an added cost and layer of bureaucracy.  What is it that you are thinking they bring positive to the table?

You don't know how insurance works?  Are you an American?  I thought you were.  Look,  every paycheck there is an amount taken out of my and most Americans check to pay for health insurance.  I haven't utilized it except for flu vaccinations and physicals since 2008.  So how much money does the insurer make off me every year?  So anyway this money is put in a pool for the purpose of paying for medical things like vaccinations.  They are super easy to process and included in all coverages 100% paid by law.  So do the math.  How many people have got a vaccination for covid?  How much do you suppose each vaccination costs we the tax payers? $50? $100?  Who knows.  Why waste all of that money when there is already a huge pile of money just for that very thing?  Please.  

[Gromdor]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

Yeah, that is not always true.   The difference is that if you don't have insurance the doctors can write a large amount of it off, however that is not something they will tell you up front.   I have worked for doctors and there is a lot of paper work for uninsured patients, and a lot of dunning letters even when the practice knows the patient cannot pay.  AND there are now a lot of doctors who will refuse to even see you if you don't have insurance.   

Well case in point.  My kid is hyperactive.  We didn't want to medicate him so we opted for Occupational Therapy.  He talks to a lady for 1/2  once a week and learns not to be a spaz.  Insurance costs are 600$/session.  Direct pay cost is $90/session.  No medication, or anything.  Just talk to a lady for 1/2hr.   Now I am willing to believe that this lady's labor might be $180/hr but it's a far stretch to say it is $1200/hr.

[Tatetopa]

26 minutes ago, OverSword said:

WTF are we paying insurance premiums for? 

A good question.

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

You don't know how insurance works?  Are you an American?  I thought you were.  Look,  every paycheck there is an amount taken out of my and most Americans check to pay for health insurance.  I haven't utilized it except for flu vaccinations and physicals since 2008.  So how much money does the insurer make off me every year?  So anyway this money is put in a pool for the purpose of paying for medical things like vaccinations.  They are super easy to process and included in all coverages 100% paid by law.  So do the math.  How many people have got a vaccination for covid?  How much do you suppose each vaccination costs we the tax payers? $50? $100?  Who knows.  Why waste all of that money when there is already a huge pile of money just for that very thing?  Please.  

Hah,  I think I see the problem.  You didn't know how Trump and Congress funded the Covid Vaccines: How Much Will COVID-19 Vaccines Cost Taxpayers? (msn.com)

Basically, our government signed a contract with the manufacturers, paid for the vaccine development, and paid for a set amount a vaccines before it was even developed.  All those doses are owned by the tax payers already- the insurance company doesn't need to buy them.  Trump and the previous administration took the socialized medicine route.

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Well case in point.  My kid is hyperactive.  We didn't want to medicate him so we opted for Occupational Therapy.  He talks to a lady for 1/2  once a week and learns not to be a spaz.  Insurance costs are 600$/session.  Direct pay cost is $90/session.  No medication, or anything.  Just talk to a lady for 1/2hr.   Now I am willing to believe that this lady's labor might be $180/hr but it's a far stretch to say it is $1200/hr.

Doesn't your son's occupational therapy include excercises?   My grand son had occupational therapy and part of it was paid by insurance but as soon as the insurance said he had used up his benefits my daughter had to find something else for him because she (and most people) could not afford the 600.00 a session.   He got an hour and it was balance and concentration and interacting with animals.  It was very helpful but I agree, too expensive.   So my daughter found a Ninja Gym that charged 40.00 a month and he could take classes every day if he wanted, he went twice a week and it gave him the same therapy that he got before except the additonal "therapy" of having to wait his turn in a group of kids, etc.   In some ways better than the therapist.

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Hah,  I think I see the problem.  You didn't know how Trump and Congress funded the Covid Vaccines: How Much Will COVID-19 Vaccines Cost Taxpayers? (msn.com)

Basically, our government signed a contract with the manufacturers, paid for the vaccine development, and paid for a set amount a vaccines before it was even developed.  All those doses are owned by the tax payers already- the insurance company doesn't need to buy them.  Trump and the previous administration took the socialized medicine route.

Yep, hence the bad press for J&J & Astra Zeneca because they did not get in on the greased palms deal.  Another reason I waited for the J&J instead of blindly just accepting which ever vaccine they claimed was available.

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

Hah,  I think I see the problem.  You didn't know how Trump and Congress funded the Covid Vaccines: How Much Will COVID-19 Vaccines Cost Taxpayers? (msn.com)

Basically, our government signed a contract with the manufacturers, paid for the vaccine development, and paid for a set amount a vaccines before it was even developed.  All those doses are owned by the tax payers already- the insurance company doesn't need to buy them.  Trump and the previous administration took the socialized medicine route.

Then you bill the insurance companies and re-coup the money. Do you understand that the government has no money and are currently trillions in debt?

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

Doesn't your son's occupational therapy include excercises?   My grand son had occupational therapy and part of it was paid by insurance but as soon as the insurance said he had used up his benefits my daughter had to find something else for him because she (and most people) could not afford the 600.00 a session.   He got an hour and it was balance and concentration and interacting with animals.  It was very helpful but I agree, too expensive.   So my daughter found a Ninja Gym that charged 40.00 a month and he could take classes every day if he wanted, he went twice a week and it gave him the same therapy that he got before except the additonal "therapy" of having to wait his turn in a group of kids, etc.   In some ways better than the therapist.

Nah, no animals.  He does try different foods sometimes because the wife wanted the OT to get him to open up to new things.  The kid already does soccer, taekwondo, and other things.  It's more to make the wife happy.

[Gromdor]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Then you bill the insurance companies and re-coup the money. Do you understand that the government has no money and are currently trillions in debt?

Did you read the article on how it is funded?  The vaccines have already been paid for before they were even developed.  They all belong to the tax payers.  I am not kidding when I said Trump and the previous administration went the full on socialized medicine route.  The insurance company isn't even in the loop.