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docyabut2

The Ark of the Covenant

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Sir Wearer of Hats
16 minutes ago, Thanos5150 said:

But I do it on purpose. Is that bad? 

Only if you’re caught.

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Festina
6 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Maybe something running Encarta 95?*
 

 

 

 

 

 

* which is the pet “theory” of an occasional poster here.

 

The World has a “Virus” (of sorts) does it not?

 

 

 

 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
2 hours ago, Festina said:

 

The World has a “Virus” (of sorts) does it not?

Only of the Homo Sapiens Sapiens variety.

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Windowpane
7 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

The Ark was likely melted down by the Babylonians, or someone else. That’s what happened to most, if not all of the gold in Jerusalem.

It could have been buried by someone, who died, but if the Ethiopians had it, why the secrecy? ….

But, when the Temple was rebuilt in 538 BC, all the valuable items that had previously been carried off from the Temple by the Babylonians were returned.  

So, if those items weren't melted down, it makes it less likely that the Ark was melted down.

The problem is that there is no mention in the Old Testament of the Temple Ark and its fate ...

 

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Tom1200
8 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

The Ark was likely melted down by the Babylonians, or someone else. That’s what happened to most, if not all of the gold in Jerusalem.

It could have been buried by someone, who died, but if the Ethiopians had it, why the secrecy?  Is anything truly sacred, a secret?

The entire Temple was replaced by Jesus Christ. He is the New Covenant. The Ark, is a relic with no present power or sacred purpose. End of story ….

I do believe this is Raptor's first ever post that makes the slightest sense!  (The first two lines, at least.)  What's happened - has someone hacked your account?

12 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

But, when the Temple was rebuilt in 538 BC, all the valuable items that had previously been carried off from the Temple by the Babylonians were returned.  

So, if those items weren't melted down, it makes it less likely that the Ark was melted down.

The problem is that there is no mention in the Old Testament of the Temple Ark and its fate ...

 

Is there any detailed information about this?  Such as a catalogue of treasures and trophies collected by the triumphant Nebuchadnezzar?  Is there reason to believe/hope that any of these still exist?  

As far as I'm aware descriptions of the Ark are vague and open to interpretation - cherubim and wings and stuff - so, in your opinion, which is most likely:

  • The Babylonians would have kept the Ark intact as a thing of beauty/religious importance/curiosity
  • The Babylonians placed no value on the Ark per se and stripped it down for its gold
  • The Ark's design/significance offended the Babylonians so they destroyed it 
  • The Babylonians never took the Ark, leading to the possibility it remains hidden somewhere

I'd love to think that something like this has survived the ravages of time and conquest, but we know that, regrettably, many 'civilisations' believe the best way to project their mastery over others is through the wanton destruction of all that is different.  Could anyone here say whether the Babylonians were known for their tolerance of others or if they preferred the Taliban approach to cultures?

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Abramelin
Posted (edited)

@Tom1200, I think you'll have to google "Silver Scroll".

Well, that's what popped up in my mind when I read your post.

Edited to add:

I meant a list of things stolen by the Babylonians. Or recovered, I forgot.

Edited by Abramelin
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Windowpane
1 hour ago, Tom1200 said:

I do believe this is Raptor's first ever post that makes the slightest sense!  (The first two lines, at least.)  What's happened - has someone hacked your account?

Is there any detailed information about this?  Such as a catalogue of treasures and trophies collected by the triumphant Nebuchadnezzar?  Is there reason to believe/hope that any of these still exist?  

As far as I'm aware descriptions of the Ark are vague and open to interpretation - cherubim and wings and stuff - so, in your opinion, which is most likely:

  • The Babylonians would have kept the Ark intact as a thing of beauty/religious importance/curiosity
  • The Babylonians placed no value on the Ark per se and stripped it down for its gold
  • The Ark's design/significance offended the Babylonians so they destroyed it 
  • The Babylonians never took the Ark, leading to the possibility it remains hidden somewhere

I'd love to think that something like this has survived the ravages of time and conquest, but we know that, regrettably, many 'civilisations' believe the best way to project their mastery over others is through the wanton destruction of all that is different.  Could anyone here say whether the Babylonians were known for their tolerance of others or if they preferred the Taliban approach to cultures?

 

The source for the information in my post was pgs 155-6 here.

I know of no detailed list.  But, apparently, everything taken was returned ... apart from the Ark (and Cherubim, winged sphinxes), about which there is no mention whatsoever.  If the Ark had been destroyed, why wasn't everything else destroyed as well?

Elliott Friedman does raise the question of whether the Ark actually ever existed (156).  It's certainly mentioned in Kings and Chronicles as being placed in the Temple: but that's about it.

 

 

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Abramelin
1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

@Tom1200, I think you'll have to google "Silver Scroll".

Well, that's what popped up in my mind when I read your post.

Edited to add:

I meant a list of things stolen by the Babylonians. Or recovered, I forgot.

It's actually a copper scroll, and nothing to do with this topic:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_Scroll

Sorry.

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Raptor Witness
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Windowpane said:

But, when the Temple was rebuilt in 538 BC, all the valuable items that had previously been carried off from the Temple by the Babylonians were returned.  

So, if those items weren't melted down, it makes it less likely that the Ark was melted down.

The problem is that there is no mention in the Old Testament of the Temple Ark and its fate ...

 

I don’t think they actually gave back all or even most of the loot. It flies in the face of logic. You can’t get away with saying an Ark was returned, when there’s nothing to show for it.

Conquests don’t work like that. I’m sorry. It’s great story, but we should expect certain embellishments, especially for non-prophetic or non-moral issues.

Edited by Raptor Witness

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jaylemurph
4 hours ago, Windowpane said:

Elliott Friedman does raise the question of whether the Ark actually ever existed (156).  It's certainly mentioned in Kings and Chronicles as being placed in the Temple: but that's about it.

I mean, it’s not as if it only ever appears in a book that also has talking animals, jealous, rampaging gods, religious proscriptions against midgets, and golden hemorrhoids. 

—Jaylemurph 

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Harte
3 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

I mean, it’s not as if it only ever appears in a book that also has talking animals, jealous, rampaging gods, religious proscriptions against midgets, and golden hemorrhoids. 

—Jaylemurph 

tenor.gif?itemid=15970871

Harte

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jaylemurph
43 minutes ago, Harte said:

tenor.gif?itemid=15970871

Harte

First Samuel, Chaps. 5 and 6, detailing the plague of hemorrhoids god smote the Philistines with, and the golden hemorrhoids they made to appease His holy, sane, and not at all fictional anger. 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Samuel 6&version=KJV

And before you lot say /anything/, this is directly related to the Ark of the Covenant. 

It’s not my fault you didn’t go to Sunday School. 

—Jaylemurph 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
Posted (edited)

I think, operating within the mythic framework presented by the sections of the Bible wherein the Ark is mentioned, it is safe to say that “the Ark will have protects itself”. Furthermore, as we are operating within layers of myth and propaganda and subtle and unsubstantiated imagery and iconography - the Ark will have returned to Israel after the Babylonians because the Ark represented Gods divine presence within the lives of the Hebrew Peoples and His Presence left them as a culture (still sticking around to make a fool of Nebuchanzaar and others from time to time) during the Diaspora and Exile and returned with the return of the Exilic Hebrew. It needed have been a magic box in order for it to return, metaphor and myth after all ...

Edited by Sir Wearer of Hats
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jaylemurph

Wait, what colour is the Ark? Any chance it’s dark blue? 

…it’d explain a lot and be more reasonable than 90% of Ark pseudo-nonsense. 

—Jaylemurph 

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Sir Wearer of Hats
28 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Wait, what colour is the Ark? Any chance it’s dark blue? 

…it’d explain a lot and be more reasonable than 90% of Ark pseudo-nonsense. 

—Jaylemurph 

And “cherubim” is a mistranslation of the word meaning “light”.

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Abramelin
18 hours ago, Abramelin said:

It's actually a copper scroll, and nothing to do with this topic:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_Scroll

Sorry.

Well...

https://thejerusalemconnection.us/blog/2009/03/01/the-copper-scroll-and-the-ark-of-the-covenant/

 

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Harte
11 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

First Samuel, Chaps. 5 and 6, detailing the plague of hemorrhoids god smote the Philistines with, and the golden hemorrhoids they made to appease His holy, sane, and not at all fictional anger. 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Samuel 6&version=KJV

And before you lot say /anything/, this is directly related to the Ark of the Covenant. 

It’s not my fault you didn’t go to Sunday School. 

—Jaylemurph 

Why so defensive? You were supposed to be answering for me when they called the roll at Sunday School.

Besides, this is good stuff. I rate it at about a 0.75 Vergina.

Harte

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Windowpane
20 hours ago, Raptor Witness said:

I don’t think they actually gave back all or even most of the loot. It flies in the face of logic. You can’t get away with saying an Ark was returned, when there’s nothing to show for it.

Conquests don’t work like that. I’m sorry. It’s great story, but we should expect certain embellishments, especially for non-prophetic or non-moral issues.

 

To repeat - the items that were taken from the Temple are described as having been returned: all except the Ark (and Cherubim).

It doesn't say the Ark was returned.

It  simply doesn't say anything at all about the Ark.

I think I have asked in the past whether the Ark was perhaps of such an age that the wood from which it was made simply disintegrated at some point, and the priests, not quite knowing what to do in such circumstances, simply kept quiet about it.  However, this is of course no more than speculation.

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Hanslune
4 hours ago, Windowpane said:

 

To repeat - the items that were taken from the Temple are described as having been returned: all except the Ark (and Cherubim).

It doesn't say the Ark was returned.

It  simply doesn't say anything at all about the Ark.

I think I have asked in the past whether the Ark was perhaps of such an age that the wood from which it was made simply disintegrated at some point, and the priests, not quite knowing what to do in such circumstances, simply kept quiet about it.  However, this is of course no more than speculation.

Termites also exist in the middle-east as do some other wood boring beetles and wood eating insects.

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Raptor Witness
4 hours ago, Windowpane said:

I think I have asked in the past whether the Ark was perhaps of such an age that the wood from which it was made simply disintegrated at some point, and the priests, not quite knowing what to do in such circumstances, simply kept quiet about it.  However, this is of course no more than speculation.

Quote

Moreover, how was the Ark of the Covenant built?

According to the Book of Exodus, God instructed Moses on Mount Sinai during his 40-day stay upon the mountain where God was and he was shown the pattern for the tabernacle and furnishings of the Ark to be made of shittim wood to house the Tablets of Stone. Source

Quote

There can be little doubt that this acacia was once abundant in the Sinai region and is the shittim of Scripture. Shittim-wood (Acacia). Source  

01B86404-CDB7-4641-98EB-F26DABFE2F96.thumb.jpeg.25d1c017282dd20213de12babc19888b.jpeg

Source

Quote

You see, when you expose acacia wood to direct heat, the wood often cracks or bows.

In general, acacia is an extraordinarily durable wood; however, too much heat can slowly break down the fibers, causing the wood to be brittle. Source

You may be correct. This wood is not going to last in an uncontrolled environment, especially if it’s not oiled.

We might be tempted to imagine that covering the wood with gold might help, but probably not for generations.

The priests wouldn’t want to say it couldn’t endure, but it wasn’t meant to. The law must be written on the hearts of men to be truly effective. That becomes the overriding point.

The Ark was a stepping stone to the real Law, Jesus Christ. A living tree, tabernacle, all of it.

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Abramelin
6 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Quote:

"Could the Copper Scroll now sitting in a museum in Jordan be the Luach Nehoshet?  The possibility is tantalizing.  Excluding Jones and Barfield, however, few Copper Scroll experts have given the connection any merit—mostly because archeologist frown upon using ancient literary texts to aid in finding artifacts.

Even still, outside of a Hollywood movie studio, never before has there been a treasure map that held this kind of promise and suspense.  The Copper Scroll may be our closest witness to the Ark’s fate.  Watch Raiders of the Lost Ark one too many times and you can not put down the sneaking suspicion that if the Ark is ever meant to be found it will be the Luach Nehoshet—not Prof. Indiana Jones—that leads us to it.:

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docyabut2

The Ark of the Covenant and the Noah`s Ark , I believe didn't really exist the way the writers wrote it. 

Moses made the ark in a drum. The Exodus view was exaggerated ,

Noah `s flood was a local flood,  where he put two barges together , his family and his animals on it and where they landed .

Ararat was named a country 

 

What is ARARAT? - WebBible Encyclopedia - ChristianAnswers.Net

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Abramelin
Posted (edited)

I don't even have to click your link, Docy: it's Urartu.

But I do hope you clicked on the link to the blog about the Copper Scroll.

If there is ANY lead to where that socalled ark of the covenant might be, it's written on the Copper Scroll.

Edited by Abramelin

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jaylemurph
1 hour ago, docyabut2 said:

The Ark of the Covenant and the Noah`s Ark , I believe didn't really exist the way the writers wrote it. 

Moses made the ark in a drum. The Exodus view was exaggerated ,

Noah `s flood was a local flood,  where he put two barges together , his family and his animals on it and where they landed .

Ararat was named a country 

 

What is ARARAT? - WebBible Encyclopedia - ChristianAnswers.Net

Welp, you’ve just p***ed off a lot of Armenians. 

—Jaylemurph 

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Abramelin
47 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Welp, you’ve just p***ed off a lot of Armenians. 

—Jaylemurph 

And you told me to ignore here... heh.

Docy is playing a game with us.

And you do know she does.

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