Grim Reaper 6 Posted May 8, 2021 #1 Share Posted May 8, 2021 (edited) The Holy Spear is also known as the Holy Lance. This is the spear believed to have been used to stab Jesus during His crucifixion. The Holy spear has a great significance to all Christians. Many people believe that the holy spear is the relic that is today housed in St. Peters basilica although it is very hard to prove this. Currently there are 3 Holy Spears that exist, however, to date no one has been able to prove which one is real. Below are locations where these Spears currently are: The Holy Spear (vatican.com) 1.) The Holy Spear in Rome: The first person to refer this as the Holy Spear was pilgrim Antoninus of Piacenza in 570 AD: Anonymous pilgrim of Piacenza - Wikipedia 2.) The Holy Spear in Vienna: This particular spear is known as the lance of St. Maurice: Saint Maurice - Wikipedia 3.) The Holy Spear in Echmiadzin: It is believed that the spear was brought in the country by the Apostle Thaddeus: Geghard - Wikipedia 4.) Where is the true Holy Spear, which pierced the side of Jesus: Where is the true Holy Lance, which pierced the side of Christ? (aleteia.org) Edited May 8, 2021 by Manwon Lender 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rlyeh Posted May 8, 2021 Popular Post #2 Share Posted May 8, 2021 What makes you think any of them are real? 7 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piney Posted May 8, 2021 #3 Share Posted May 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said: no one has been able to prove which one is real. None..... First they have to prove there was a Rabbi named Jesus who was crucified...... 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted May 8, 2021 Author #4 Share Posted May 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Rlyeh said: What makes you think any of them are real? I am not in any position to say what is real or false when it comes to Christianity. Because I do not believe in Universal all powerful deity's that can snap their fingers and create of destroy all we know. You see I am a practicing Buddhist, and as a Buddhist it is not my place to judge another's religious beliefs. The reason I started this thread is because I am also a history buff. I have always wanted to discuss this subject for the historical content of the stories alone. Hopefully other members will chime in and offer more information on this subject, that's what is wonderful about this forum. There are number of very intelligent people who have a background in many forms of ancient history. Hope I answered your question, and thanks for your post! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted May 8, 2021 Author #5 Share Posted May 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, Piney said: None..... First they have to prove there was a Rabbi named Jesus who was crucified...... My friend I realize that, however, I am interested in the historical back stories on these objects. Hopefully, you or others can shed some light on the claims made about the Spears. Peace 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted May 8, 2021 Author #6 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Note: I am not making the claim that any of these relics were used by a Roman soldier to pierce the side of Jesus Christ. I realize according to biblical scripture that Jesus was Crucified on Mount Golgotha, which is now where the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is currently located. The reason I started this thread was because I am interested in the back stories of the 3 Spears that are spoken about at the Vatican.Com/Archive. The information I am interested in is when these items were first spoken about historically, and where according to the same information they originated from. I would appreciate, any information on this subject. Thanks very much in advance!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ouija ouija Posted May 8, 2021 #7 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Maybe the 'real' one was lost at the time? After all, it wouldn't have seemed to have any significance at the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted May 8, 2021 Author #8 Share Posted May 8, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, ouija ouija said: Maybe the 'real' one was lost at the time? After all, it wouldn't have seemed to have any significance at the time. That's a very good point, it hard to say. But, may be if this thread progresses someone will add some information that will point us in that direction. Here is something I have found that you may be interested in. 56487859.pdf (uib.no) Edited May 8, 2021 by Manwon Lender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ouija ouija Posted May 8, 2021 #9 Share Posted May 8, 2021 32 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said: That's a very good point, it hard to say. But, may be if this thread progresses someone will add some information that will point us in that direction. Here is something I have found that you may be interested in. 56487859.pdf (uib.no) I'm not interested enough to read all that! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted May 8, 2021 Author #10 Share Posted May 8, 2021 45 minutes ago, ouija ouija said: I'm not interested enough to read all that! That's fine, take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ouija ouija Posted May 8, 2021 #11 Share Posted May 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said: That's fine, take care. Suddenly realised that may have sounded a bit snippy and rude; it wasn't meant to be.Sorry. I was taken aback by how much reading there was to do! I think it would be mainly Roman Catholics that would be interested/believe in this subject. I don't belong to any religion, but having been brought up in the Church of England I occasionally find stuff like this briefly interesting. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz_Light_Year Posted May 8, 2021 #12 Share Posted May 8, 2021 I thought it was common knowledge that the Spear of Destiny was in Castle Wolfenstein. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted May 8, 2021 Author #13 Share Posted May 8, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, ouija ouija said: Suddenly realised that may have sounded a bit snippy and rude; it wasn't meant to be.Sorry. I was taken aback by how much reading there was to do! I think it would be mainly Roman Catholics that would be interested/believe in this subject. I don't belong to any religion, but having been brought up in the Church of England I occasionally find stuff like this briefly interesting. That's ok, please don't give it another thought, but thank you for clearing that up.. I agree it is a lot to read, I also have not read it all yet myself. I was baptized at birth as a Catholic, according to that tradition I was given a God Father. However, by my teenage years, I had turned my back on all organized religion and I never looked back. I married my wife in 1986, she is South Korean and a Buddist. In the late 1990s, I also became interested in Buddhas teachings. So since that time I have been practicing Buddhism, the thing that I found most interesting about Buddhism is the lack of a God figure. Buddha was just a man who was born and died like anyone man. The only thing that sets him apart is the manner in which he viewed the world, and life. The way he chose to reach an understanding of life and the world that could lead to enlightenment if followed. Take care Edited May 8, 2021 by Manwon Lender 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted May 8, 2021 #14 Share Posted May 8, 2021 it would be nice if Gungnir turns up during the search. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted May 8, 2021 Author #15 Share Posted May 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Tatetopa said: it would be nice if Gungnir turns up during the search. That would be pretty cool Tate, in fact I would rather find Gungnir than the Holy Spear! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted May 8, 2021 #16 Share Posted May 8, 2021 44 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said: That would be pretty cool Tate, in fact I would rather find Gungnir than the Holy Spear! It tasted the blood of many kings and heroes before they found their places on the feasting benches in Valholl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted May 8, 2021 Author #17 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Just now, Tatetopa said: It tasted the blood of many kings and heroes before they found their places on the feasting benches in Valholl. Well, correct me if I am wrong but according what I have read concerning the Norse legends of Valhalla. Each day there are great battles fought in Valhalla were pretty much everyone dies, and than at night all are resurrected and they feast all night until the next morning!!!! Sounds like a very interesting version of the afterlife, but it certainly does reflect upon the Norse Society general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted May 9, 2021 #18 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said: Well, correct me if I am wrong but according what I have read concerning the Norse legends of Valhalla. Each day there are great battles fought in Valhalla were pretty much everyone dies, and than at night all are resurrected and they feast all night until the next morning!!!! Sounds like a very interesting version of the afterlife, but it certainly does reflect upon the Norse Society general. Yeah. You will have to read some of the eddas to get the whole story. Odin was a self-serving, dishonorable, conniving god; not the benevolent proto Santa Claus new agers like to think. Oracles told him he would die during the final battle of the gods. He knew he couldn't avoid it, but he was trying. He was gathering an army of heroes to fight for the gods. He manipulated men, raised great families up to become heroes, betrayed them, set kings against each other to pick the best for his einherjar. His daughters, the Valkyrs were harvesting the best off the battlefields. Everybody else went to Helheim or one of the other afterlife realms, even warriors who did not make the cut to first string. It is way off topic, but here is are a few verses by Egil Skallagrimsson lamenting the loss of his son, Odin is mentioned, as the giver of poetry, dark destroyer of kin, lord of spears. . Ran is the sea god. It is a mixture of grief and defiance, they were a complex people, not so one sided as movies portray. Its a bit long. 4. My stock Stands on the brink Pounded as planar-trees On the forest’s rim No man is glad Who carries the bones Of his dead kinsman Out of the bed 7. The sea-goddess Has ruffled me Stripped me bare Of my loved ones: The ocean severed My family’s bonds The tight knot That ties me down 8. If by sword I might Avenge that deed The brewer of waves Would meet his end; Smite the wind’s brother That dashes the bay Do battle against The sea-god’s wife 9. Yet I felt I lacked the might To seek justice against The killer of ships For it is clear To all eyes How an old man Lacks helpers 15. It is rare to find One to trust Amongst men who dwell Beneath Odin’s gallows For the dark-minded Destroyer of kin Swaps his brother’s Death for treasure 18. I do not relish The company of men Though each of them might Live in peace with me; My wife’s son Has come in search Of friendship To One-Eye’s hall 22. I was in league With the lord of spears Pledged myself loyal To believe in him Before he broke off His friendship with me The guardian of chariots Architect of victory 23. I do not worship Vilir’s brother Guardian of the gods Through my own longing Though in good ways too The friend of wisdom Has granted me Redress for affliction 24. He who does battle And tackles the hell-wolf Gave me the craft That is beyond reproach And the nature That I could reveal Those who plotted against me As my true enemies 25. Now my course is tough: Death, close sister Of Odin’s enemy Stands on the ness: With resolution And without remorse I shall gladly Await my own 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted May 9, 2021 Author #19 Share Posted May 9, 2021 36 minutes ago, Tatetopa said: Yeah. You will have to read some of the eddas to get the whole story. Odin was a self-serving, dishonorable, conniving god; not the benevolent proto Santa Claus new agers like to think. Oracles told him he would die during the final battle of the gods. He knew he couldn't avoid it, but he was trying. He was gathering an army of heroes to fight for the gods. He manipulated men, raised great families up to become heroes, betrayed them, set kings against each other to pick the best for his einherjar. His daughters, the Valkyrs were harvesting the best off the battlefields. Everybody else went to Helheim or one of the other afterlife realms, even warriors who did not make the cut to first string. It is way off topic, but here is are a few verses by Egil Skallagrimsson lamenting the loss of his son, Odin is mentioned, as the giver of poetry, dark destroyer of kin, lord of spears. . Ran is the sea god. It is a mixture of grief and defiance, they were a complex people, not so one sided as movies portray. Its a bit long. 4. My stock Stands on the brink Pounded as planar-trees On the forest’s rim No man is glad Who carries the bones Of his dead kinsman Out of the bed 7. The sea-goddess Has ruffled me Stripped me bare Of my loved ones: The ocean severed My family’s bonds The tight knot That ties me down 8. If by sword I might Avenge that deed The brewer of waves Would meet his end; Smite the wind’s brother That dashes the bay Do battle against The sea-god’s wife 9. Yet I felt I lacked the might To seek justice against The killer of ships For it is clear To all eyes How an old man Lacks helpers 15. It is rare to find One to trust Amongst men who dwell Beneath Odin’s gallows For the dark-minded Destroyer of kin Swaps his brother’s Death for treasure 18. I do not relish The company of men Though each of them might Live in peace with me; My wife’s son Has come in search Of friendship To One-Eye’s hall 22. I was in league With the lord of spears Pledged myself loyal To believe in him Before he broke off His friendship with me The guardian of chariots Architect of victory 23. I do not worship Vilir’s brother Guardian of the gods Through my own longing Though in good ways too The friend of wisdom Has granted me Redress for affliction 24. He who does battle And tackles the hell-wolf Gave me the craft That is beyond reproach And the nature That I could reveal Those who plotted against me As my true enemies 25. Now my course is tough: Death, close sister Of Odin’s enemy Stands on the ness: With resolution And without remorse I shall gladly Await my own I had no Idea you were into the Norse sagas. I have never read them myself but they seem interesting, so maybe I will read some of them. I have always been interested in the Norse ending of the World. ( Ragnarok ) I think maybe later I will start by reading that one, hey thanks for the idea. Did you ever think about starting thread about the Norse Sagas, I think it would stir an interesting conversation. Since you obviously know a great deal about it maybe you should start it? If you do please link me to it, I will certainly support it! Take Care my friend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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