Dream of proof of god?

[eileen87]

So. When I was 15 I was living in a terrible situation to be fair, for background, my mum was a heroin addict and prostitute and it was basically a crack den. im also a vivid dreamer, i was then and still am at 33 now.

So it was my first and last lucid dream ever. I don't remember the full content, but I was having a big talk with a being, could have been man or woman, i could never see their face, it was kind of shrouded in darkness. It remined me of a cheesy scene in a film where a suspect is being interrogated with a light on them and they couldn't see the interregator, but it was more than that. I could almost see but the face kept shifting and I couldn't get a firm hold on it.

The general theme was a grandiose talk about life and death, the meaning of existence, and, basically, deep. We talked a great deal and I can't remember most of it, unfortunately. The only thing I remember, which is still very real in my memory, is this part of the conversation, which was the end. He/she/it said, 'do you believe in god'? I said no. They said, why not? I said, I've never seen any proof, my parents are atheists. They said, what proof do you require? So I said, I know this is a dream. When I wake up, why don't you send an exotic bird to my window, I left it open.

I woke up to birdsong close by, still not quite remembering the dream, but as I rolled over, I saw a lovebird inside my window tweeting away, and the dream rushed back to me. I was so shocked I stood up slowly to go towards it, but it got spooked and flew away. 

A lot of people have said I heard a bird in my dream and my brain did the rest, and I'm a cynic and usually I'd accept that. But it's just the specifity of the tropical bird, in England. I never found out where it came from. Lovebirds do not exist in nature in the UK. I'd agree with the bird thing in my dream usually, but my request was so specifically answered?

I've always wondered about it. I'm not religious, maybe it meant something else. My heritage is 100% Irish Catholic though. Any thoughts?

[eileen87]

I don't suppose anyone has an answer really, just one of those weird things. Just always haunted me I guess

Edited May 11, 2021 by eileen87

[Timothy]

Hi @eileen87, lovebirds are common pet birds, also it could have been a hypnopompic hallucination.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnopompic

Proof of god is a bit of a stretch with anything dream/sleep related.

And as a disclaimer, I am a hardened sceptic 

[+OverSword]

@eileen87 Very cool. I personally believe in God but not really in religion so much, at least not in the organized sense.  If you choose to take that as a sign then it was.  The people that say it was influenced by the bird could be right too as I know I have had dreams in which aspects of what was on television leaked into my dream.  On the other hand who says that god didn't send the bird there to influence your dream question?  

It's all up to you.

[bison]

 That's an impressive experience, in any case. Suppose you did hear the bird in your sleep, and this gave you the idea for the proof you requested. If so, it seems that a part of you must have wanted to receive such a proof.

Edited May 11, 2021 by bison

[eight bits]

24 minutes ago, eileen87 said:

Any thoughts?

Welcome aboard.

If it helps, that kind of dream-waking experience synchronicity is familiar. There are two especially famous instances in Jungian lore. One is Jung's analysand who dreamt of an Egyptian-style scarab-beetle jewelry piece, came to Jung to rell hm about it, and the session was interrupted by a beetle trying to get into the room thorugh the window. The other is Jung himself finding the corpse of a rare (in Switzerland) variety of kingfisher just as he was having visions of a man with wings - kingfisher pattern wings.

You do have the complication of the alternative "dream incorporation" (searchable) explanation, that you heard the bird while asleep or half-awake, which really wasn't an issue in the two cases just mentioned.

I can't break the deadlock - both interpretations of the event are possible, and both happen often enough for each to be a candidate and that's all I know.

If I can ask a quaetion ot two: You say this was your only lucid dream. Were you already interested in lucid dreams, or did you first encounter the term only after you'd had the dream, maybe while researching or talking about it with others? Have you ever wondered about why you hadn't dreamt lucidly except on this one occason?

 

[jmccr8]

40 minutes ago, eileen87 said:

So. When I was 15 I was living in a terrible situation to be fair, for background, my mum was a heroin addict and prostitute and it was basically a crack den. im also a vivid dreamer, i was then and still am at 33 now.

Hi Eileen

Welcome to the forum. I have known families that each generation of children grew up in the kind of early life you have had and hope that you have found some value in life and yourself that you have exceeded your past and best wishes.

45 minutes ago, eileen87 said:

So it was my first and last lucid dream ever. I don't remember the full content, but I was having a big talk with a being, could have been man or woman, i could never see their face, it was kind of shrouded in darkness. It remined me of a cheesy scene in a film where a suspect is being interrogated with a light on them and they couldn't see the interregator, but it was more than that. I could almost see but the face kept shifting and I couldn't get a firm hold on it.

The general theme was a grandiose talk about life and death, the meaning of existence, and, basically, deep. We talked a great deal and I can't remember most of it, unfortunately. The only thing I remember, which is still very real in my memory, is this part of the conversation, which was the end. He/she/it said, 'do you believe in god'? I said no. They said, why not? I said, I've never seen any proof, my parents are atheists. They said, what proof do you require? So I said, I know this is a dream. When I wake up, why don't you send an exotic bird to my window, I left it open.

I woke up to birdsong close by, still not quite remembering the dream, but as I rolled over, I saw a lovebird inside my window tweeting away, and the dream rushed back to me. I was so shocked I stood up slowly to go towards it, but it got spooked and flew away. 

A lot of people have said I heard a bird in my dream and my brain did the rest, and I'm a cynic and usually I'd accept that. But it's just the specifity of the tropical bird, in England. I never found out where it came from. Lovebirds do not exist in nature in the UK. I'd agree with the bird thing in my dream usually, but my request was so specifically answered?

It is an interesting dream and I am not going to try to interpret it but if you found something in it and applied it to see what gain there was then it served a purpose to move ahead.

47 minutes ago, eileen87 said:

I've always wondered about it. I'm not religious, maybe it meant something else. My heritage is 100% Irish Catholic though. Any thoughts?

I'm Canadian Irish and have a lot of thoughts I won't talk about.

It is healthy to ask questions and not jump to conclusions without looking at all the arguments pro and con. I don't know what you experienced but have had a couple of interesting situations I just put in the I don't know bin but if anything relevant comes up then I look at it again and weigh it's value.

jmccr8

[+Desertrat56]

37 minutes ago, eileen87 said:

So. When I was 15 I was living in a terrible situation to be fair, for background, my mum was a heroin addict and prostitute and it was basically a crack den. im also a vivid dreamer, i was then and still am at 33 now.

So it was my first and last lucid dream ever. I don't remember the full content, but I was having a big talk with a being, could have been man or woman, i could never see their face, it was kind of shrouded in darkness. It remined me of a cheesy scene in a film where a suspect is being interrogated with a light on them and they couldn't see the interregator, but it was more than that. I could almost see but the face kept shifting and I couldn't get a firm hold on it.

The general theme was a grandiose talk about life and death, the meaning of existence, and, basically, deep. We talked a great deal and I can't remember most of it, unfortunately. The only thing I remember, which is still very real in my memory, is this part of the conversation, which was the end. He/she/it said, 'do you believe in god'? I said no. They said, why not? I said, I've never seen any proof, my parents are atheists. They said, what proof do you require? So I said, I know this is a dream. When I wake up, why don't you send an exotic bird to my window, I left it open.

I woke up to birdsong close by, still not quite remembering the dream, but as I rolled over, I saw a lovebird inside my window tweeting away, and the dream rushed back to me. I was so shocked I stood up slowly to go towards it, but it got spooked and flew away. 

A lot of people have said I heard a bird in my dream and my brain did the rest, and I'm a cynic and usually I'd accept that. But it's just the specifity of the tropical bird, in England. I never found out where it came from. Lovebirds do not exist in nature in the UK. I'd agree with the bird thing in my dream usually, but my request was so specifically answered?

I've always wondered about it. I'm not religious, maybe it meant something else. My heritage is 100% Irish Catholic though. Any thoughts?

Love birds are common pets.  Maybe one escaped.   Even so it is an unusual dream.

[eileen87]

It must have been an escaped pet, there's no other possibility. and coincidences do happen, and i am a sceptic. And it's not the only inexplicable thing that's ever happened to me, no. It just felt profound and incredible but I guess that's no reason to think it wasn't just 'one of those things'. I just still wonder because of how deep the feeling felt.

@Desertrat56 yes you're right, of course! but it's just if i'd asked for a bird and a pigeon came... fine. The coincidence of a pet escaping nearby at the same eaxact point of the request in my dream is weird, that's all. Just weird! Don't know what else to think of it really.

Edited May 12, 2021 by eileen87

[eileen87]

@eight bits No, I had never heard of lucid dreams before, someone told me after I described it to them what it was. Very strange to hear! I have also dreamed of scarab beetles regularly, but no live beetles when I've woken up. Still weird you mentioned them. I guess coincidences are quie common then lol!

Edited May 12, 2021 by eileen87

[eileen87]

@jmccr8 i assume you're referring to catholic guilt  which I am familar with. it's in the DNA

[Brandy333]

I too believe in God and want to say you had an extraordinary dream and a very unique response to your request an exotic bird come to your window.   I've had some experiences as well where God has spoken to my heart with words of comfort and encouragement.  Bless you and cherish your memory of what took place.

[jmccr8]

4 minutes ago, eileen87 said:

@jmccr8 i assume you're referring to catholic guilt  which I am familar with. it's in the DNA

My Dad and all his kin were Orangemen and he had to convert to marry my mom so he was a Catholic with a Presbyterian stomach we ate fish he ate meat.

I don't belong to a religion I belong to a species so the only guilt I have is if by some means caused harm to another and make amends personally then it's done and move on.

jmccr8

[papageorge1]

2 hours ago, eileen87 said:

Any thoughts?

I've heard so many stories of people receiving requested physical signs from the spiritual planes that I do believe this does really occur. 

Your case strikes me as quite possibly one such case. It seems reasonable too that the spirit world would reach out in a dream to you under your circumstances.

 

[Knob Oddy]

All I can say is if that happened to me I'd take it as a sign. Hope your life is going well now. All the best

[the13bats]

What traumas for a 15yo girl to endure i will assume you are not a junkie prostitute living in the den and pleased your life got better.

Dreams can and are an escape and the mind can and does self comfort, have you ever see the movies "Sucker punch" or "Pans labyrinth" ?

I have no idea if your dream was contach from God no one does as its a quedtiom based in belief and faith

i would question why come all mystic in a dream and how did the bird help did it prove something? 

The dream seems to have given you things you needed at the time hope and peace and nothing wrong with that.

 

[+Desertrat56]

13 hours ago, eileen87 said:

It must have been an escaped pet, there's no other possibility. and coincidences do happen, and i am a sceptic. And it's not the only inexplicable thing that's ever happened to me, no. It just felt profound and incredible but I guess that's no reason to think it wasn't just 'one of those things'. I just still wonder because of how deep the feeling felt.

@Desertrat56 yes you're right, of course! but it's just if i'd asked for a bird and a pigeon came... fine. The coincidence of a pet escaping nearby at the same eaxact point of the request in my dream is weird, that's all. Just weird! Don't know what else to think of it really.

There is always more going on in the universe than we can fathom.   We are more than the sum of our physical parts and there is nothing wrong with you wanting to know and understand.   You needed that dream for what ever reason that is personal to you and no one can judge you about that.  I really do believe that there are no coincidences, all things are connected whether we see the connection or not.   

[Raptor Witness]

This is called a personal mystical experience.

I agree that your subconscious mind could have weaved a thread around the bird singing in your ear, while you slept.

However, the opposite could just as easily be true.

If you believe in guardian angels, it’s of course possible that your guardian angel helped to orchestrate the experience.

You don’t need others to validate your personal mystical experiences. It was meant for you.

Faith built upon such experiences can be very strong. It’s up to you to weigh the odds of your personal mystery.

The odds, to me would seem to be quite profound, and in favor of your faith. If daily prayers of thanks result, you can expect more experiences.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Raptor Witness

[Robotic Jew]

On 5/11/2021 at 7:13 PM, eileen87 said:

So. When I was 15 I was living in a terrible situation to be fair, for background, my mum was a heroin addict and prostitute and it was basically a crack den. im also a vivid dreamer, i was then and still am at 33 now.

So it was my first and last lucid dream ever. I don't remember the full content, but I was having a big talk with a being, could have been man or woman, i could never see their face, it was kind of shrouded in darkness. It remined me of a cheesy scene in a film where a suspect is being interrogated with a light on them and they couldn't see the interregator, but it was more than that. I could almost see but the face kept shifting and I couldn't get a firm hold on it.

The general theme was a grandiose talk about life and death, the meaning of existence, and, basically, deep. We talked a great deal and I can't remember most of it, unfortunately. The only thing I remember, which is still very real in my memory, is this part of the conversation, which was the end. He/she/it said, 'do you believe in god'? I said no. They said, why not? I said, I've never seen any proof, my parents are atheists. They said, what proof do you require? So I said, I know this is a dream. When I wake up, why don't you send an exotic bird to my window, I left it open.

I woke up to birdsong close by, still not quite remembering the dream, but as I rolled over, I saw a lovebird inside my window tweeting away, and the dream rushed back to me. I was so shocked I stood up slowly to go towards it, but it got spooked and flew away. 

A lot of people have said I heard a bird in my dream and my brain did the rest, and I'm a cynic and usually I'd accept that. But it's just the specifity of the tropical bird, in England. I never found out where it came from. Lovebirds do not exist in nature in the UK. I'd agree with the bird thing in my dream usually, but my request was so specifically answered?

I've always wondered about it. I'm not religious, maybe it meant something else. My heritage is 100% Irish Catholic though. Any thoughts?

Just gotta say it....Come on Eileen....

 

As an atheist I'm prone to discount your experience as either you heard the bird and your dream formed around it or you saw the bird and then form your memory of the dream. Dreams are hard to remember and memory is always highly suspect.

[Raptor Witness]

44 minutes ago, Robotic Jew said:

 

As an atheist I'm prone to discount your experience as either you heard the bird and your dream formed around it or you saw the bird and then form your memory of the dream. Dreams are hard to remember and memory is always highly suspect.

Your philosophy is why almost no one prepared for the solar virus, as announced here in 2019, repeatedly.

Atheism has the same limitations as the opposite end of the spectrum, which is manifested in some forms of right wing conservatism.

We cannot see the coronavirus without assistance. Likewise, we cannot see the Holy Spirit of Truth, without assistance, and that assistance may come in the form of dreams, and other personal mystical experiences.

Dreams are sometimes like a powerful microscope. Denying a virus, that is unavailable to our naked eye, is at our peril, also.

[XenoFish]

54 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

Your philosophy is why almost no one prepared for the solar virus, as announced here in 2019, repeatedly.

Atheism has the same limitations as the opposite end of the spectrum, which is manifested in some forms of right wing conservatism.

We cannot see the coronavirus without assistance. Likewise, we cannot see the Holy Spirit of Truth, without assistance, and that assistance may come in the form of dreams, and other personal mystical experiences.

Dreams are sometimes like a powerful microscope. Denying a virus, that is unavailable to our naked eye, is at our peril, also.

You sure do you love taking credit for things after the fact. 

[Raptor Witness]

An important gauge that I use to determine if a dream is of special importance, in terms of the supernatural, is to first determine if the dream has an unexpected result, and is less likely to be purely the result of my conscious mind working things out.

For example, my recent dream about Joe Biden, even though I was not a fan of Joe Biden and did not support him in the U.S. presidential primary. To see him acting as my President, and appearing to do a good job repairing my country, was an unexpected result. I wasn’t a fan, so to dream about his efforts well before the election, was totally unexpected. 

I pay special attention to these dreams, based upon prior experience.

The American Indians were so profoundly sure that something or someone was helping them in their lives, that they attributed the help, quite often, to their ancestors, because they felt that only their ancestors had the motive to do this. It’s not their belief that interests me, so much as their motive for that belief, suggesting that something real was in fact occurring, they just didn’t know who to thank.

Quote

Raptor Witness     2,630

•  
•   #227  
•  

Posted July 19, 2020

I dreamed last night that I was climbing around inside a tree, which represented the United States. Joe Biden was working on the tree, as a laborer, as was I. He asked me to help him repair some of the signs attached to the tree, and pointed to the parts that he couldn’t reach himself, which were incomplete. I eagerly agreed to help him, and I worked overtime on reaching the more difficult parts. There were other laborers present, who were assisting me, but they were unrecognizable.

This is the only time I have ever dreamed of any politician, much less one speaking directly to me in any dream.  Since I am no fan of Joe Biden as a candidate for President, nor have I actively supported him, the dream qualifies as beyond what I would expect my brain to kick out as a normal activity, or a way of dealing with stress or anxiety. It’s still possible, but Joe Biden speaking directly to me, is unusual enough to make the cut here.

The repairing of the small signs attached to the ends of tree’s branches, like fruit, were particularly intriguing.

 

[XenoFish]

@Raptor Witness

Are you really here to help the OP or are you just here to toot your own horn? 

[XenoFish]

On 5/11/2021 at 7:13 PM, eileen87 said:

So. When I was 15 I was living in a terrible situation to be fair, for background, my mum was a heroin addict and prostitute and it was basically a crack den. im also a vivid dreamer, i was then and still am at 33 now.

So it was my first and last lucid dream ever. I don't remember the full content, but I was having a big talk with a being, could have been man or woman, i could never see their face, it was kind of shrouded in darkness. It remined me of a cheesy scene in a film where a suspect is being interrogated with a light on them and they couldn't see the interregator, but it was more than that. I could almost see but the face kept shifting and I couldn't get a firm hold on it.

The general theme was a grandiose talk about life and death, the meaning of existence, and, basically, deep. We talked a great deal and I can't remember most of it, unfortunately. The only thing I remember, which is still very real in my memory, is this part of the conversation, which was the end. He/she/it said, 'do you believe in god'? I said no. They said, why not? I said, I've never seen any proof, my parents are atheists. They said, what proof do you require? So I said, I know this is a dream. When I wake up, why don't you send an exotic bird to my window, I left it open.

I woke up to birdsong close by, still not quite remembering the dream, but as I rolled over, I saw a lovebird inside my window tweeting away, and the dream rushed back to me. I was so shocked I stood up slowly to go towards it, but it got spooked and flew away. 

A lot of people have said I heard a bird in my dream and my brain did the rest, and I'm a cynic and usually I'd accept that. But it's just the specifity of the tropical bird, in England. I never found out where it came from. Lovebirds do not exist in nature in the UK. I'd agree with the bird thing in my dream usually, but my request was so specifically answered?

I've always wondered about it. I'm not religious, maybe it meant something else. My heritage is 100% Irish Catholic though. Any thoughts?

What did the dream mean to you? Are you perhaps soul searching? Maybe trying to work through a few things? If this avian visit was a sign, has it affected your life in any way? 

It looks to me like you've had a moment of synchronicity. It is all in what you take from this experience really.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Xeno-Fish
I can not spell today.

[+ouija ouija]

On 5/12/2021 at 12:13 AM, eileen87 said:

The general theme was a grandiose talk about life and death, the meaning of existence, and, basically, deep. We talked a great deal and I can't remember most of it, unfortunately. The only thing I remember, which is still very real in my memory, is this part of the conversation, which was the end. He/she/it said, 'do you believe in god'? I said no. They said, why not? I said, I've never seen any proof, my parents are atheists. They said, what proof do you require? So I said, I know this is a dream. When I wake up, why don't you send an exotic bird to my window, I left it open.

I woke up to birdsong close by, still not quite remembering the dream, but as I rolled over, I saw a lovebird inside my window tweeting away, and the dream rushed back to me. I was so shocked I stood up slowly to go towards it, but it got spooked and flew away. 

A lot of people have said I heard a bird in my dream and my brain did the rest, and I'm a cynic and usually I'd accept that. But it's just the specifity of the tropical bird, in England. I never found out where it came from. Lovebirds do not exist in nature in the UK. I'd agree with the bird thing in my dream usually, but my request was so specifically answered?

 

Hi, Eileen, welcome to UM

I know it happens that the brain is good at incorporating real life sounds into dreams, but I just wonder if you would distinguish the sound you heard as exotic rather than just 'birdsong' ? Having said that, there are 30,000 wild parakeets living in London and the south. They originally escaped from an aviary but have adapted really well to our climate and are thriving.