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Hugh Mungus

Former U.S. Military Leaders Sign Bizarre Open Letter Pushing Election Lies

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Hugh Mungus

Its not April Fools day is it??

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Over 120 retired U.S. generals and admirals published a disturbing open letter earlier this week pushing the false conspiracy theory that President Joe Biden stole the election while arguing that he might be mentally unfit for office. 

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The letter begins by asserting that “Our Nation is in deep peril,” and that “We are in a fight for our survival as a Constitutional Republic like no other time since our founding in 1776. The conflict is between supporters of Socialism and Marxism vs. supporters of Constitutional freedom and liberty.”

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“Today, many are calling such commonsense controls ‘racist’ in an attempt to avoid having fair and honest elections,” the letter states. “Using racial terms to suppress proof of eligibility is itself a tyrannical intimidation tactic.” 

 

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/retired-generals-election-conspiracy-theories-letter_n_609c1d0ae4b0909247feb276

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Hugh Mungus

BTW, I deliberately posted the Huffington Post link as I thought it had the most "uncensorable" wording, pointing out that these peoples beliefs are clearly false

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, Hugh Mungus said:

BTW, I deliberately posted the Huffington Post link as I thought it had the most "uncensorable" wording, pointing out that these peoples beliefs are clearly false

Here is the actual letter complete uncensored.

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/fb7c7bd8-097d-4e2f-8f12-3442d151b57d/downloads/2021 Open Letter from Retired Generals and Adm.pdf?ver=1620740665549

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theotherguy

I'm always interested whenever an opposition party member brings up executive order rate. https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/executive-orders Donald Trump had the most executive orders per year since Jimmy Carter. The last president to average more than 100 executive orders per year over the course of their presidency was Truman. Since then, the rate of executive orders has been pretty consistently dropping. So huge numbers of executive orders, from presidents of either party, doesn't exactly mean the end of the world, or any section of it. Also, I don't think it's too unusual for a new president to reverse many of the outgoing president's policies if they're of opposing parties. And yet, every time, the newly out of power party screams "overreach" and "unconstitutional."

The rest of the letter's content has been fact-checked to death, pretty much literally. Why is any of this still disputed? I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a claim that Trump was working to illegally sabotage his own presidential campaign. Everyone else seems to be in on the grand anti-Trump conspiracy, why not himself?

(This is about as much of a political statement as I intend to make. Don't take this as any sort of endorsement for any party or candidate.)

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Trelane
Posted (edited)

I'll remain skeptical until I see verifiable proof of all 100+ individuals actually are involved. You can't get 10 officers to agree on a policy letter let alone 2 or 3 to approve annual training guidance in a timely fashion. But now they can coalesce this fast to pen this item? Yeah, nah. I'm going to need more proof.

Edited by Trelane
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psyche101
2 minutes ago, Trelane said:

I'll remain skeptical until I see verifiable proof of all 100+ individuals actually are involved. You can't get 10 officers to agree on a policy letter let alone 2 or 3 to approve a annual training guidance in a timely fashion. But now they can coalesce this fast to pen this item? Yeah, nah. I'm going to need more proof.

If there are any actual serving members of rank identified they should get a dishonourable discharge the same day that they are identified. 

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Freez1

Honestly it doesn’t matter Joe got the election and proving otherwise is down stream now. Enjoy them gas prices I didn’t vote for him and never would he’s a career politician who’s done nothing for Americans and he never will. 

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the13bats
Posted (edited)

Trump lost :tu:

Deal with it ;)

Edited by the13bats
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theotherguy
2 minutes ago, Freez1 said:

Honestly it doesn’t matter Joe got the election and proving otherwise is down stream now. Enjoy them gas prices I didn’t vote for him and never would he’s a career politician who’s done nothing for Americans and he never will. 

I have to ask, why do people consider "career politician" inherently a bad thing, almost to the point of redundancy? "I'm not going to let him treat me, he's a career doctor." "She'll never defend me! She's a career lawyer!" "Don't trust them. They're career athletes." I get that politicians have a bad reputation, often for excellent reasons that are completely justified. Politically, I distrust people across the entire spectrum. But I don't believe that every politician will take the sleazy route whenever possible. I have this small, possibly naive hope that some career politicians genuinely do try to act in their nation's best interests, even if they disagree on what those best interests are.

And yeah, I said I wasn't going to make any political statements, but I figure the anonymity of the Internet will let me ask questions I wouldn't ask someone face to face.

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the13bats
7 minutes ago, theotherguy said:

I have to ask, why do people consider "career politician" inherently a bad thing, almost to the point of redundancy? "I'm not going to let him treat me, he's a career doctor." "She'll never defend me! She's a career lawyer!" "Don't trust them. They're career athletes." I get that politicians have a bad reputation, often for excellent reasons that are completely justified. Politically, I distrust people across the entire spectrum. But I don't believe that every politician will take the sleazy route whenever possible. I have this small, possibly naive hope that some career politicians genuinely do try to act in their nation's best interests, even if they disagree on what those best interests are.

And yeah, I said I wasn't going to make any political statements, but I figure the anonymity of the Internet will let me ask questions I wouldn't ask someone face to face.

But, but, but....trump was a career buffoon and his incompetent life costing epicly disastrous onesy term reflected that.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
13 minutes ago, theotherguy said:

I have to ask, why do people consider "career politician" inherently a bad thing, almost to the point of redundancy?
 

because politics is the art of telling other people how to do things, a career politician then has spent their time telling people what to do and not actually doing. 

 

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Trelane said:

I'll remain skeptical until I see verifiable proof of all 100+ individuals actually are involved. You can't get 10 officers to agree on a policy letter let alone 2 or 3 to approve annual training guidance in a timely fashion. But now they can coalesce this fast to pen this item? Yeah, nah. I'm going to need more proof.

I agree with you, but who knows. I suspect if this is a hoax it will be debunked in time. Below is the original copy if the letter with all the names attached. However, while it has names attacked to it their are no signatures, so I sus peck this is a draft.

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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the13bats
12 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I agree with you, but who knows. I suspect if this is a hoax it will be debunked in time. Below is the original copy if the letter with all the names attached. However, while it has names attacked to it their are no signatures, so I sus peck this is a draft.

 

Plus he is always braying bs like this,

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Horta

The US has been sliding down the democracy index for quite a while. It now ranks even with Panama and Romania, slightly behind Argentina and Mongolia.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/special-report/2021/crisis-reform-call-strengthen-americas-battered-democracy#footnote2_mf63alg

When you consider how often the US meddles in foreign elections and their well known regime change operations, it's unsurprising that similar tactics are eventually going to be used domestically.

Also unsurprisingly people across the globe think the country that is the greatest threat to democracy worldwide is...not China.....nor Russia......but you guessed it, the good old US of A. Interestingly people in countries traditionally allied to the USA have much greater fear of US influence on their politics than people in either China or Russia.

https://latana.com/democracy-perception-index/

Which goes well with worldwide polling which has been showing for over a decade that the US is also considered the greatest threat to world peace

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-03/new-poll-says-these-nations-are-top-4-threats-world-peace-guess-whos-number-one

Taken together with the Covid 19 abject failure, high levels of civil unrest, institutionalised corruption, wars that it starts and can't win and the very poor quality of leadership for decades and the US is now basically failing and at risk of being a banana republic with lots of weapons. Given the trail of destruction around the world and penchant for "gunboat" diplomacy, it's a precarious position for the world to be in.

 

 

 

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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, the13bats said:

Plus he is always braying bs like this,

Yea I agree with you, but it is very difficult to say for certain. There are approximately 4700 General officers that are enjoying retirement in the United States right now, so I suppose it's more than possible for 125 not to like Biden.

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Cookie Monster
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Horta said:

The US has been sliding down the democracy index for quite a while. It now ranks even with Panama and Romania, slightly behind Argentina and Mongolia.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/special-report/2021/crisis-reform-call-strengthen-americas-battered-democracy#footnote2_mf63alg

When you consider how often the US meddles in foreign elections and their well known regime change operations, it's unsurprising that similar tactics are eventually going to be used domestically.

Also unsurprisingly people across the globe think the country that is the greatest threat to democracy worldwide is...not China.....nor Russia......but you guessed it, the good old US of A. Interestingly people in countries traditionally allied to the USA have much greater fear of US influence on their politics than people in either China or Russia.

https://latana.com/democracy-perception-index/

Which goes well with worldwide polling which has been showing for over a decade that the US is also considered the greatest threat to world peace

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-03/new-poll-says-these-nations-are-top-4-threats-world-peace-guess-whos-number-one

Taken together with the Covid 19 abject failure, high levels of civil unrest, institutionalised corruption, wars that it starts and can't win and the very poor quality of leadership for decades and the US is now basically failing and at risk of being a banana republic with lots of weapons. Given the trail of destruction around the world and penchant for "gunboat" diplomacy, it's a precarious position for the world to be in.

 

It sure will be an interesting decade.

The US is currently back on its way down following the election of Biden. In terms of GDP PPP (thats the purchasing power measure) China is already ahead of them. It is only the GDP measure based on currency exchange rates that has the USA a little ahead.

US hegemony is being eroded away. They are in their twilight years in terms of the greatest economic power, manufacturing has already been lost, technological dominance is maintained in military spheres but is lost to China on consumer products, GDP dominance will be lost this decade, and China is rapidly catching up militarily.

This has arisen not because China are better, but because we keep giving everything away to China. There is no economic nationalism, no self-preservation, no consideration of the long-term future. It is being driven by the type of moron who thinks everyone can all give each other a hug and be friends. As soon as China has got its hegemony in place it will do what it did in Hong Kong - whatever it wants, not what we want.

It will strive outwards to secure the resources it needs but lacks, such as oil. It will expand its naval sphere to secure all its trade routes. And it will do what we have done for centuries, which is spread its own national interest around the world along with ideology and form of government.

What we have playing out right now is a demonstration of how power is gained, maintained, and lost.

Edited by Cookie Monster

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Horta
4 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

It sure will be an interesting decade.

The US is currently back on its way down following the election of Biden. In terms of GDP PPP (thats the purchasing power measure) China is already ahead of them. It is only the GDP measure based on currency exchange rates that has the USA a little ahead.

US hegemony is being eroded away. They are in their twilight years in terms of the greatest economic power, manufacturing has already been lost, technological dominance is maintained in military spheres but is lost to China on consumer products, GDP dominance will be lost this decade, and China is rapidly catching up militarily.

This has arisen not because China are better, but because we keep giving everything away to China. There is no economic nationalism, no self-preservation, no consideration of the long-term future. It is being driven by the type of moron who thinks everyone can all give each other a hug and be friends. As soon as China has got its hegemony in place it will do what it did in Hong Kong - whatever it wants, not what we want.

It will strive outwards to secure the resources it needs but lacks, such as oil. It will expand its naval sphere to secure all its trade routes. And it will do what we have done for centuries, which is spread its own national interest around the world along with ideology and form of government.

What we have playing out right now is a demonstration of how power is gained, maintained, and lost.

Agree with almost everything you said. Except that I have doubts that China will try to spread it's own form of ideology or government. I doubt they will care, as long as their economic and other interests are served. Though I see a potential problem in that much of the developing world will look at the Chinese success, and use it as a model. This could end up with a world in which democracy plays an ever decreasing role. It sure will be an interesting decade. 

 

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Manwon Lender
34 minutes ago, Horta said:

The US has been sliding down the democracy index for quite a while. It now ranks even with Panama and Romania, slightly behind Argentina and Mongolia.

https://freedomhouse.org/report/special-report/2021/crisis-reform-call-strengthen-americas-battered-democracy#footnote2_mf63alg

When you consider how often the US meddles in foreign elections and their well known regime change operations, it's unsurprising that similar tactics are eventually going to be used domestically.

Also unsurprisingly people across the globe think the country that is the greatest threat to democracy worldwide is...not China.....nor Russia......but you guessed it, the good old US of A. Interestingly people in countries traditionally allied to the USA have much greater fear of US influence on their politics than people in either China or Russia.

https://latana.com/democracy-perception-index/

Which goes well with worldwide polling which has been showing for over a decade that the US is also considered the greatest threat to world peace

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-03/new-poll-says-these-nations-are-top-4-threats-world-peace-guess-whos-number-one

Taken together with the Covid 19 abject failure, high levels of civil unrest, institutionalised corruption, wars that it starts and can't win and the very poor quality of leadership for decades and the US is now basically failing and at risk of being a banana republic with lots of weapons. Given the trail of destruction around the world and penchant for "gunboat" diplomacy, it's a precarious position for the world to be in.

 

 

 

I find you comments here very interesting, and I must say that I agree with most of what is said. I find the Freedom House report very interesting and I am familiar with that organization and the fact that they are very reputable. What I find interesting is how far the country has fallen in the last four years alone. Being that the organization has right leaning political views, they have certainly been very critical of President Trump. The poll I least agree with is the 2014 poll stating that the US is the biggest threat to world peace. Now, I not saying that could not have some basis for fact in it, however do the fact that the poll is 7 years old thing may have changed a great deal in either direction. I also think there is difference between world peace and world domination which the poll doesn't address at all. 

I do have ask though, what country are you from?

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Cookie Monster
Just now, Manwon Lender said:

I find you comments here very interesting, and I must say that I agree with most of what is said. I find the Freedom House report very interesting and I am familiar with that organization and the fact that they are very reputable. What I find interesting is how far the country has fallen in the last four years alone. Being that the organization has right leaning political views, they have certainly been very critical of President Trump. The poll I least agree with is the 2014 poll stating that the US is the biggest threat to world peace. Now, I not saying that could not have some basis for fact in it, however do the fact that the poll is 7 years old thing may have changed a great deal in either direction. I also think there is difference between world peace and world domination which the poll doesn't address at all. 

I do have ask though, what country are you from?

We know low income households want a better life so they voted socialism.

Work needs to be done improving that, but the current Biden administration is dangerous. Not dangerous as in a threat to the world. Dangerous in that under Trump (whether people like him or not) the US was redressing its relationship with China. Now Biden is going backwards. You Americans have got to put your own country first rather than let everything slip to China. You are at the brink of losing your top position this decade.

We have seen nearly a century of the US shaping the world, which has been an advantage for Britain because we think in the same ways and are friends. Well, your friends across the pond are now telling you that you are letting your dominance slip. Once it is gone you wont get it back, you dont have a large enough population. China does not think the same way as the US, their hegemony will be against all the values that Americans like and enjoy living under.

The current Biden administration is in power because poverty hasn`t been dealt with, amongst other issues like the subversion of the media. But Americas poor have voted in their own demise. America right now needs a strong leader in charge who is going to go and `safeguard` its dominance. You can read into that what you want, and I think you will probably know exactly what I mean.

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Manwon Lender
2 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

We know low income households want a better life so they voted socialism.

Work needs to be done improving that, but the current Biden administration is dangerous. Not dangerous as in a threat to the world. Dangerous in that under Trump (whether people like him or not) the US was redressing its relationship with China. Now Biden is going backwards. You Americans have got to put your own country first rather than let everything slip to China. You are at the brink of losing your top position this decade.

We have seen nearly a century of the US shaping the world, which has been an advantage for Britain because we think in the same ways and are friends. Well, your friends across the pond are now telling you that you are letting your dominance slip. Once it is gone you wont get it back, you dont have a large enough population. China does not think the same way as the US, their hegemony will be against all the values that Americans like and enjoy living under.

The current Biden administration is in power because poverty hasn`t been dealt with, amongst other issues like the subversion of the media. But Americas poor have voted in their own demise. America right now needs a strong leader in charge who is going to go and `safeguard` its dominance. You can read into that what you want, and I think you will probably know exactly what I mean.

Cookie Monster, I don't think you are in a position to comment on the worlds current situation or the current situation in the United States. Your opinion on these subjects, is just that an opinion. 

Thanks for you commentary I always enjoy hearing from you.:D

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Manwon Lender
6 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

You do realize that there are close to 4700 general officers currently enjoying retirement in the United States. So even if this is correct 120 Generals is a very very small percentage of the retired Generals in the United States. 

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RAyMO
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

You are at the brink of losing your top position this decade.

This is not in the least bit surprising, and is almost inevitable from a economic GDP perspective. 

Simply by force of numbers - the US has a population of 333m, china 1.4billion - more than 3 times bigger. china thus has a much bigger workforce and internal market. 

As china catches up technologically and in 'market' concepts it will naturally outstrip the US in country v country GDP and will do it in this decade (nothing a Biden or Trump will / would do, will stop that).  On the GDP per person measure China will take much longer to catch up. 

China surpassing the USA on the crude GDP measure is not really a great concern. In fact for the Global economy its probably good that it does so. 

None of the above considers the military comparison or the political ideology comparison. On the first of these I don't see any challenge to the US in the near future, on the ideological issue, I believe  China will come under pressure internally as people become more prosperous.   

 

Edited by RAyMO
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Grey Area
3 hours ago, theotherguy said:

I have to ask, why do people consider "career politician" inherently a bad thing, almost to the point of redundancy? "I'm not going to let him treat me, he's a career doctor." "She'll never defend me! She's a career lawyer!" "Don't trust them. They're career athletes." I get that politicians have a bad reputation, often for excellent reasons that are completely justified.

It has its roots in the essence of democracy, ‘by the people, for the people’.

Take for example the U.K.  The country is governed by the House of Commons.  That is exactly what it sounds like, a house for the commoners to govern themselves.

The ideal was that your average Joe is elected to office because your average Joe knows what other average Joe’s need.  The term is limited, and there is infrastructure setup to guide your average Joe through their term in office.

In essence the career politician is not the ideal.  Of course the situation in the states is that running for office is only viable to those who have lots of money and connections, and are members of one of two political movements.

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