Corvus corone, the common crow

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

 My point was that in ANY society   the different or the powerless will always be she most common victims. Any   society expects (and often even requires)  each member  to fit within certain expectations and parameters. 

Those who challenged the beliefs, as well as the authority, of a society were often punished 

Hi Walker

Then rather than just say something why not give a couple of links that show that persecution of witches, witch doctors or shaman through out history from diverse cultures that were not Christian.

5 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

The control by druids of the population Then the "extermination" of the druids by the  Romans 

Okay yes and they were Roman Catholics (Christians) how does that support your position?

[eight bits]

55 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

But you will understand my excuse. I had  to go walk the dogs and didn't take the time to check  

God's work. Carry on.

[Abramelin]

On 5/15/2021 at 2:15 PM, Abramelin said:

Many here will know that I am interested in corvids, or crows, rooks, ravens, jackdaws, magpies, and so on.

I was googling for some nice photos of the common crow, or in latin: corvus corone.

But I made a typo and googled "corvus corona" instead, and after some clicks, I arrived at the next site:

https://www.constellationsofwords.com/corvus/

I downloaded the image of the constellation, and started reading.

I of course knew of the Greek myth. Quote from the link:

"Another myth tells us that Corvus, the raven, was given a task by Apollo of keeping a watchful eye on Apollo’s pregnant lover Coronis (her name might relate to crow or crown, one of the Hyades in Taurus is named Coronis). The raven reported back to Apollo the unwelcome news that she was having an affair with someone else. Apollo in anger cursed the raven, and its color changed from its former silver hue to the present black. Corona was killed by Apollo’s sister Artemis. The unborn child of Coronis and Apollo was rescued and raised as Asclepius who is identified with Ophiuchus".

Then I noticed the typo in the text:

"CoronA was killed by Apollo's sister Artemis" ...

Corona killed by Artemis??

Now I also happen to be interested in herbal medicine (no, that's most certainly nòt the same as homeopathy), and I thought, "hey, could artemisia (= wormwood, mugwort) help fight Covid19??"

Ok, I googled again and found this:

https://www.wpi.edu/news/early-research-finds-extracts-sweet-wormwood-plant-can-inhibit-covid-19-virus

Quote:

Wormwood Plant Can Inhibit the COVID-19 Virus

May 4, 2021

A team of researchers that includes Worcester Polytechnic Institute Biology Professor Pamela Weathers has found that extracts from the leaves of the Artemisia annua plant, a medicinal herb also known as sweet wormwood, inhibit the replication of the SARS-CoV-2 virus and two of its recent variants.

The team, which included researchers from Columbia University in New York and the University of Washington at Seattle, also found that extracts of the plant were more effective against the virus when levels of a key therapeutic compound in the plant, artemisinin, were low. The in vitro findings led the researchers to suggest that one or more compounds in Artemisia annua, or A. annua, that have not yet been identified may point to a safe, low-cost therapeutic treatment for SARS-CoV-2, the virus responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic.

The work was described in an article published in the Journal of Ethnopharmacology.

Nice going: 2 typo's (mine and someone else's), and then finding some herb that MAY help fight covid19.

The little extra connected to this, is a translation of the word 'wormwood': chernobyl.

At the moment I thought nothing of it, and continued with just the herb vs. Covid-19 for a topic. Well, it sounded better than Chernobyl killing the corona virus.

I just remembered this today after I learned that the Russians have taken Chernobyl:

https://m.dw.com/en/russians-take-chernobyl-what-we-know/a-60921177

Edited February 26, 2022 by Abramelin

[Mr Walker]

On 2/25/2022 at 10:59 AM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Then rather than just say something why not give a couple of links that show that persecution of witches, witch doctors or shaman through out history from diverse cultures that were not Christian.

Okay yes and they were Roman Catholics (Christians) how does that support your position?

The druids had a  religious government Those who offended them ie didn't follow thier rules  were persecuted   Then the romans came and did the same  to them Ie its not  just about Christianity but about any beliefs system Outsiders are ostracised feared and persecuted 

Shamans  etc before Christianity were less persecuted although still feared because the y were the  ones with power  (eg Australian Aboriginal kadaicha men.)

quote

Witchcraft (maleficium) was indeed common in pre-Christian Europe, and it was an ancient pagan custom for those who believed maleficium was being used against them or their kin to take personal retaliation. Death by burning was thought to be a proper penalty and was practised by the German tribes who worshipped Odin, Thor and the other deities of the Teutonic pantheon (Cohn 1975:147-149). Similar practices were found in the "civilised" society of the Roman Empire (Williams 1959:305). "The pagan Romans, like most ancient peoples and modern tribal societies, prescribed the death penalty for those who killed or who harmed property by witchcraft: in a system which believes in magic and has cap- ital punishment for normal murder and arson, there is no other logical situation" (Hutton 1991:255). The hunting and killing of suspected witches was thus an established pagan practice long before the coming of Christianity.

https://people.ucalgary.ca/~nurelweb/papers/hayes/witch.html

quote

 

Most people think that witches are a Christian invention. But the idea of the witch who flies in the night and draws power from dark cosmic forces to work her ill will on others pre-dates Christianity, probably by many centuries. 

In Homer’s Odyssey (c.800 BC), Circe – who turns men into animals – is described as a witch, and Plutarch refers to witchcraft in his treatise On Superstition (c.AD 100). Illicit magic features heavily in Roman law statutes, some of which are passed down to the Christian world. However, many of those early laws were really laws against sorcery, which unlike witchcraft can be beneficial, and which requires special skills, tools and words.

Archaeologists have found hundreds of ancient Greek curse tablets, which the Greeks called katares, ‘curses that bind tight’, and they appear to have invented them, with a great number focused on sporting competitions or legal contests. The inscribed tablets were left in graves, wells or fountains, where the dead could better work their magic.

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/learn/histories/journey-into-witchcraft-beliefs/

[Abramelin]

[quiXilver]

Very good Mr. Walker.  That's another lovely story.  We're going to hang that one on the refrigerator where eeeevvvvveryone can see it.

[AlonaLameDeer]

While it's already been address that it's just some Native American Communities, and that those groups are not a monolith.
I would like to add to this.

Ravens are VERY common were I live (The North Slope of Alaska) But crows don't normally get up this far.

Ravens are one of the big three animals in Yupik culture.
The Otter.
The Lynx.
The Raven.

Each is very culturally important.
Crows are interesting in that they should never be up this far, but every now and then... you see one, and it's always been a sigh of bad tidings.
The raven itself is a strange figure in that it's seen as a bringer of death, but also the animal that it needed to reach the afterlife. So combination grim reaper and Valkyr. 

[Abramelin]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:48 AM, AlonaLameDeer said:

While it's already been address that it's just some Native American Communities, and that those groups are not a monolith.
I would like to add to this.

Ravens are VERY common were I live (The North Slope of Alaska) But crows don't normally get up this far.

Ravens are one of the big three animals in Yupik culture.
The Otter.
The Lynx.
The Raven.

Each is very culturally important.
Crows are interesting in that they should never be up this far, but every now and then... you see one, and it's always been a sigh of bad tidings.
The raven itself is a strange figure in that it's seen as a bringer of death, but also the animal that it needed to reach the afterlife. So combination grim reaper and Valkyr. 

I always thought that Raven was considered to be a Trickster God and the Creator god for NW-American.peoples.

[AlonaLameDeer]

20 minutes ago, locomekipkachelfantje said:

I always thought that Raven was considered to be a Trickster God and the Creator god for NW-American.peoples.

That’s kind of my point. North American natives are pretty diverse. That’s everyone from Lakota to Inuit to the Aztecs. Pretty much no interpretation is going to be universal. Yupik as a side note is an odd tribal group is in half of the group is actually in Siberia. We actually settled the beering strait back before it was a strait. So it likely represents a more Mongolian / shamanistic tradition. 

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, AlonaLameDeer said:

That’s kind of my point. North American natives are pretty diverse. That’s everyone from Lakota to Inuit to the Aztecs. Pretty much no interpretation is going to be universal.

That's why I said NW-American. I was thinking of the Haïda and Kwakiutl.

[AlonaLameDeer]

20 minutes ago, locomekipkachelfantje said:

That's why I said NW-American. I was thinking of the Haïda and Kwakiutl.

Ahh okay gotcha. Sorry missed the NW part. Ya Yupik are kind of oddballs up here to be honest. Most of groups feel tangentially connected. The Yupik normally are the outliers in a lot of things. 

[Piney]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:40 AM, locomekipkachelfantje said:

I always thought that Raven was considered to be a Trickster God and the Creator god for NW-American.peoples.

One group of Eastern Iranians (Sarmatian) were called the "Grandchildren of the Crow" in The Bamboo Annuals. A hybrid Turkic- Iranian tribe known as the Cumans also used a crow tagma as their totem. I always wondered if the Corvin Clan among the Polish aristocracy were their descendants considering the Polish-Sarmatian connection.

[Abramelin]

On 4/21/2022 at 3:43 PM, locomekipkachelfantje said:

That's why I said NW-American. I was thinking of the Haïda and Kwakiutl.

I just now remembered the Tlingit.

I always loved the art these NW coastal tribes produced, and especially their totem poles. They were great sailors too.

Here an informative website about these people:

https://luonnonkansat.livejournal.com/11311.html

 

[Abramelin]

54 minutes ago, Piney said:

One group of Eastern Iranians (Sarmatian) were called the "Grandchildren of the Crow" in The Bamboo Annuals. A hybrid Turkic- Iranian tribe known as the Cumans also used a crow tagma as their totem. I always wondered if the Corvin Clan among the Polish aristocracy were their descendants considering the Polish-Sarmatian connection.

Is there not a connection with the Alans who spread out all over Europe and also ended up in Brittain and North Africa?

There are those who think that the origin of the tale of King Arthur is based on Alan mythology.

In the OLB thread we dug up quite a lot about these Alans. And I often found these sidetracks more interesting than the original topic, heh.

Edited to add:

I remember - I say that a lot lately - that both or one of the two, Sarmatians and Alans, had a depiction of a dragon as their banner.

Edited April 27, 2022 by locomekipkachelfantje

[Piney]

6 minutes ago, locomekipkachelfantje said:

Is there not a connection with the Alans who spread out all over Europe and also ended up in Brittain and North Africa?

There are those who think that the origin of the tale of King Arthur is based on Alan mythology.

In the OLB thread we dug up quite a lot about these Alans. And I often found these sidetracks more interesting than the original topic, heh.

Edited to add:

I remember - I say that a lot lately - that both or one of the two, Sarmatians and Alans, had a depiction of a dragon as their banner.

The "Sarmatian Theory" the Clive Owen movie promoted. There's a good chance it contributed to the legend.

The Normans were mostly Alan with a Norse ruling class. My mother's family, the Jowetts, show a genetic connection to the Alans.

The "dragon" banner of the Alans was originally a IE wolf warrior class totem also found among Dacians, Thracians and Spartans. The ancient IE had a teenage warrior cult which acted like wolves and raided other villages. This evolved into the Spartan training method. The Cumans also preserved a similar practice where they howled and acted like wolves to get their pre-battle vibe going.

[lightly]

Good thinking loco!  (may I call you loco?)     I think many, if not most, modern pharmaceuticals were developed by replicating the effects of healing plants?    
      I love Ravens.   We camp out all winter in the desert and they are everywhere we go.  They (usually pairs) visit us with a little fly over nearly every sun up.  I talk to them…just say.  “hi raven!”   And lift my arms ..in flight.   They seem to like our company..and visit often 

[Abramelin]

18 hours ago, lightly said:

Good thinking loco!  (may I call you loco?)     I think many, if not most, modern pharmaceuticals were developed by replicating the effects of healing plants?    
      I love Ravens.   We camp out all winter in the desert and they are everywhere we go.  They (usually pairs) visit us with a little fly over nearly every sun up.  I talk to them…just say.  “hi raven!”   And lift my arms ..in flight.   They seem to like our company..and visit often 

"Loco" is ok. An anagram of my former username is "lame brain", so...

-

Plants, that's what the pharmaceutical industry started with. Asperine is methyl acetyl salicyl acid. Salicyl acid came from Salix, the willow. It was methylated to make it more stable and to prevent it burning a hole in your stomach.

-

I love ravens too, but here in the Netherlands they are quite rare. That's because we don't have large game running around. They were reintroduced during the 60s of the past century and fed with slaughterhouse offal.

On the other hand, we have lots of jackdaws, crows, rooks, magpies and jays. Personally I find jackdaws the most likable. In some cities here they are as tame as hens, and even the crows become less shy.

[Abramelin]

18 hours ago, lightly said:

 I talk to them…just say.  “hi raven!”

Heh, if you had been a woman, ànd talked to/with plants too then you would qualify as a W.I.T.C.H. (Woman Interested in Talking to Crows and Herbs).

[lightly]

3 hours ago, locomekipkachelfantje said:

Heh, if you had been a woman, ànd talked to/with plants too then you would qualify as a W.I.T.C.H. (Woman Interested in Talking to Crows and Herbs).

Sometimes I  “Squawk”  at them .. and sometimes they squawk back!        

[Abramelin]

Just now, lightly said:

Sometimes I  “Squawk”  at them .. and sometimes they squawk back!        

In de morning, when I pass with my bike below a row of trees where hundreds of jackdaws are roosting, they always 'greet' me. Some even fly along for a short while and then turn around.

Corvids remember faces, and also if you are  'good' guy or 'bad' guy.

At this very moment I'm having a break, and one jackdaw passes by the car I'm sitting in. We have been busy in a large garden, and they walk behind us at close distance picking up grubs.

If you sort of ignore them while you're busy, they come closer and closer. But they do keep an eye on you.

[quiXilver]

Somewhere on the site, I recall sharing the story of an adolescent Raven who befriended me and a few others at work for a short time last year.  I thought it was in this thread, but I'm mistaken.

Anyway here it is again. 

 

One morning a young raven flew into our mill while I was working on a show.  I was running the Mill for an Apple show at the time, Will Smith and Paul Rudd thing and we were in mid season production (episode 3 or 4 of 7ish) and it was near Solstice/Christmas.

Our shop occupied one of four large, interconnected soundstages inside one giant structure and she just flew in one morning before we started work and landed at my feet after cirlcing once and began following me about. 

I was so elated.  I adored her instantly.  We spoke back and forth.  She explored my toolbox and caddy.  I offered her some nuts which she tossed about.  Painter buddy brought her water and she ignored it. 

She eventually flew in and about all four stages and checked us all out thoroughly (about 50 crew at that time) and left.   Next day and each day after, she'd come to the mill then make her 'rounds' then return and hang out.  This went on for about 10 days and she'd hang out anywhere from a few minutes to an hour or more.  She liked to sit on my tool caddy and rearrange any tools I had out, rifle through my construction notes and blueprints on the lower level, and she was dead set on this next bit... painstakingly removing every single pencil, pen and marker from my location bag's exterior pockets, dozens of em, and spread them about, it was hysterical.  She was so playful.

She'd jump from table to table, (large cabinetry building tables of which there were five in the shop) seemingly commenting on our projects.  She never accepted food or treats, except to scatter them about playfully.

One morning she walked up and stood on my foot.  While she was sitting on my foot and we were chatting she shoved her beak and head up my pant leg.

me:

her:

me:   Hey... buy me a beer first!

Many of us arrive well before our shift and sit in our cars.  Several people came up to me and said that while they'd be sitting in their car before work they'd hear this tapping, look up to see she was on their roof, leaning over the side, peering in through a window and tapping it with her beak.

She was delightful.  Seemed like a teenager hanging out and stirring up fun.  I'll see if I have any pics that survived the last phone crash.

[quiXilver]

I found a few pics.

What always gets me are the deep purples and blue hues in their plummage!

They're not black.  Their feathers are absolutely irridescent and amazing.

Edited May 2, 2022 by quiXilver

[Abramelin]

I loved your story, quiXilver.

[+Sherapy]

On 5/2/2022 at 10:45 AM, quiXilver said:

Somewhere on the site, I recall sharing the story of an adolescent Raven who befriended me and a few others at work for a short time last year.  I thought it was in this thread, but I'm mistaken.

Anyway here it is again. 

 

One morning a young raven flew into our mill while I was working on a show.  I was running the Mill for an Apple show at the time, Will Smith and Paul Rudd thing and we were in mid season production (episode 3 or 4 of 7ish) and it was near Solstice/Christmas.

Our shop occupied one of four large, interconnected soundstages inside one giant structure and she just flew in one morning before we started work and landed at my feet after cirlcing once and began following me about. 

I was so elated.  I adored her instantly.  We spoke back and forth.  She explored my toolbox and caddy.  I offered her some nuts which she tossed about.  Painter buddy brought her water and she ignored it. 

She eventually flew in and about all four stages and checked us all out thoroughly (about 50 crew at that time) and left.   Next day and each day after, she'd come to the mill then make her 'rounds' then return and hang out.  This went on for about 10 days and she'd hang out anywhere from a few minutes to an hour or more.  She liked to sit on my tool caddy and rearrange any tools I had out, rifle through my construction notes and blueprints on the lower level, and she was dead set on this next bit... painstakingly removing every single pencil, pen and marker from my location bag's exterior pockets, dozens of em, and spread them about, it was hysterical.  She was so playful.

She'd jump from table to table, (large cabinetry building tables of which there were five in the shop) seemingly commenting on our projects.  She never accepted food or treats, except to scatter them about playfully.

One morning she walked up and stood on my foot.  While she was sitting on my foot and we were chatting she shoved her beak and head up my pant leg.

me:

her:

me:   Hey... buy me a beer first!

Many of us arrive well before our shift and sit in our cars.  Several people came up to me and said that while they'd be sitting in their car before work they'd hear this tapping, look up to see she was on their roof, leaning over the side, peering in through a window and tapping it with her beak.

She was delightful.  Seemed like a teenager hanging out and stirring up fun.  I'll see if I have any pics that survived the last phone crash.

Incredible story and great pictures. Thank you for sharing. 

[+Hammerclaw]

On 2/26/2022 at 9:30 PM, locomekipkachelfantje said:

Day-yam! Thas cold, cabron!