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Hammerclaw
7 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

The truth is except for myth tales one really doesn’t forgive some unforgivable’ s such as, sexual abuse, or murder etc etc.

We forgive ourselves for our hate, accepting responsibility for our extreme emotions, but we never stop holding those persons accountable, ever. They don't get a free pass.

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, lightly said:

     Hmm, that sounds  incomplete.   I don't think "You" or anyone else is no more than memory.  I know I am more than memory.   " I "  am Now, and now is not a memory ?   And I have Intention.  I ,and my better half, Intend to go for a bike ride when it warms up some more.

 I look forward as much as I look backward.  What difference whether I'm seeing a memory of the past ,or a vision of the future ?  "I" exist equally in either.   ??  I seem to anyway :P

Well said and a great way to look at things. It is very Zen Buddhist sounding. 
 

I recently drew upon the memory  of my 16 year old self to aide me in a weight loss journey. I was very successful lost 30 pounds and am in the best shape of my life like my 16 year old self. :P 

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I'm not an expert, but from  what i read i dont think that is true.

  Forget how to read speak, walk, or even eat and your body won't do it for you  I've watched this progression in two elderly people with Alzheimer's 

Eventually  you could put food in front of them, or on a spoon, and the y didn't know what to do  The y forgot how to chew swallow etc. 

Say you had a phobia to spiders. Memory loss would/could result in you losing that  subconscious  response entirely 

They didn’t “forget” It is a common error made by one who isn’t  professional, the damage to the brain prevent-neural connections the areas affected were evidence of the extent of the brain damage and in Alzheimer’s the diseased (brain damage eventually effects the whole brain, the person regresses back to infancy. What the trained caregiver does is hold on to whatever abilities they have left, it is not unusual to see late stage Alzheimer’s or dementia continue to feed themselves, often it is a matter of the right kind of intervention. Often, many stay home with family members who do not know how to care for this disease, and are so overwhelmed they have no time to invest in education, we now know that the hippocampus grows new cells even in dementia and this is why exercise is so important. I have seen many patients come into a memory care unit unable to do a lot of things, especially, not  feed themselves and we have successfully retaught them by way of prompting or guiding and other things etc.

I am on a job now, 86 year old male late stage Alzheimer’s with Parkinson’s was completely bedridden, unable to stand or walk, I have been there a few months every day I go, he is no longer bed ridden, in spending time with him and assessing his environment I have learned a lot about him, he doesn’t talk more than a few words. I discovered it takes him several minutes to follow a command one just has to be paitent with him.  Where he wasn’t feeding himself he now is completely. It isn’t magic it is just like Jay was pointing out it’s a lot about helping in a way that takes into  consideration what we actually have to work with. My man was so stiff from lying it took me several days of massaging his muscles to unbend his legs so he could stand on them. He knows how to stand it is in him already. Like Jay said it’s just physical mechanics. My guy is walking a few steps assisted now. Of course, he isn’t cured or  going to be but he is independent in-the ways that honor his dignity with Alzheimer’s ‘s. He always looks to me too for feedback I telll him good job for his part too, we are a team. I can see the pride on his face when he accomplishes his ADL’s himself. 
 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

We forgive ourselves for our hate, accepting responsibility for our extreme emotions, but we never stop holding those persons accountable, ever. They don't get a free pass.

Well stated. :wub:

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

That was a generic you, but I suspect we are more alike than one might think 

I love my wife with all my heart and soul. But  (hypothetically) after she dies I would find some else  (if anyone would have me) and adjust my life to become a part of theirs. I might change pretty much everything about myself, as a part of that new partnership/relationship,  and would be very happy to do so. 

Ahahahaha I said this 3 years before I left my 1st husband. I am so grateful I got up the courage to make a huge change. Just admitting I was unhappy was not easy.  I met the love of my life the weekend I moved out of my marriage. For us, my ex and I and my husband Sean we would all go on to be really good friends. My ex really liked Sean and vice versa, my ex was genuinely happy for me. He apologized for not being authentic and honest about the fact that he was really not a relationship guy. I will never love anyone the way I love Sean, it has been a fairytale ending for us, we truly adore each other and have so much fun together. If he goes first I will be moving to be with my kids and helping anyway I can to make their lives easier. All the best to you. 

Edited by Sherapy
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Mr Walker
10 hours ago, lightly said:

     Hmm, that sounds  incomplete.   I don't think "You" or anyone else is no more than memory.  I know I am more than memory.   " I "  am Now, and now is not a memory ?   And I have Intention.  I ,and my better half, Intend to go for a bike ride when it warms up some more.

 I look forward as much as I look backward.  What difference whether I'm seeing a memory of the past ,or a vision of the future ?  "I" exist equally in either.   ??  I seem to anyway :P

Lets suppose you lost all memory from the time of your birth

In one sense you would still physically exist but the "you" which defines you, which is your identity /sense of self   would be gone 

If you were lucky it might come back to you but, if not, you could NEVER be the same person again 

To take your point further Suppose you couldn't remember anything which happened to you seconds after it happened or any thought you had just had  

If that happened, again, there    would be no "you"

Now exists for a nanosecond. After that it exists only as memory

I had an uncle who woke up one morning on a sand bar in the middle of lake Eyre  with a boat pulled up on the beach

He knew who he was but had lost decades of memories including where he was , how he got there etc 

Ie he had NO idea  where in the world he was or how he got here. 

Luckily he had enough sense to remain where he was and scratch out a message in the sand  Searchers rescued him some time later  

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Lets suppose you lost all memory from the time of your birth

In one sense you would still physically exist but the "you" which defines you, which is your identity /sense of self   would be gone 

If you were lucky it might come back to you but, if not, you could NEVER be the same person again 

To take your point further Suppose you couldn't remember anything which happened to you seconds after it happened or any thought you had just had  

If that happened, again, there    would be no "you"

Now exists for a nanosecond. After that it exists only as memory

I had an uncle who woke up one morning on a sand bar in the middle of lake Eyre  with a boat pulled up on the beach

He knew who he was but had lost decades of memories including where he was , how he got there etc 

Ie he had NO idea  where in the world he was or how he got here. 

Luckily he had enough sense to remain where he was and scratch out a message in the sand  Searchers rescued him some time later  

As illustrated by your story this uncle in spite of knowing who he was or where he was scratched out a message in the sand in the attempt to help himself survive. He didn't need to know who he was or where he was instinct kicked in.  You quote “luckily, he had the sense to save himself.”:P 

Edited by Sherapy
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Mr Walker
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

As illustrated by your story this uncle in spite of knowing who he was or where he was scratched out a message in the sand in the attempt to help himself survive. He didn't need to know who he was or where he was instinct kicked in.  You quote “luckily, he had the sense to save himself.”:P 

Not relevant to the particular debate.

  He hadn't lost all his memory including his  bush skills,  just many years, including where he was, and how he had got there  Lightly said that you would reinvent yourself  if you lost all your memories, from the moment you lost them  BUT how do you do that if you wake up anywhere with no knowledge of where you are or how you got there

Eg how could my father react when he woke up one morning in bed with a woman he didn't know,  because he had lost all memory of his life  from when he met her, married her, and had 4 kids with her. 

Luckily  his memory returned over  the next  24 hours. as did my uncle's BUT   how does instinct help you when you wake up in bed with an older woman believing yourself to still be about 20 years of age 

Both were  examples of transient global amnesia My uncle  might have suffered another from  of total memory  loss including any abilty to use learned survival skills,  but he didn't

Tga varies 

These are the common symptoms, and my dad had most of them, but he did NOT remember those closest to him

.Nor had he ever had migraines  

quote

What is TGA?

It's a sudden, temporary episode of memory loss that can't be attributed to a more common neurological condition, such as epilepsy or stroke

Your recall of recent events simply vanishes, so you can't remember where you are or how you got there

You may also not remember anything about what's happening in the here and now

You will, however, remember who you are and also those closest to you

It most commonly affects people in middle or older age

The underlying cause of transient global amnesia is unknown, but it is associated with a history of migraines

 

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Sherapy
8 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Not relevant to the particular debate.

  He hadn't lost all his memory including his  bush skills,  just many years, including where he was, and how he had got there  Lightly said that you would reinvent yourself  if you lost all your memories, from the moment you lost them  BUT how do you do that if you wake up anywhere with no knowledge of where you are or how you got there

Eg how could my father react when he woke up one morning in bed with a woman he didn't know,  because he had lost all memory of his life  from when he met her, married her, and had 4 kids with her. 

Luckily  his memory returned over  the next  24 hours. as did my uncle's BUT   how does instinct help you when you wake up in bed with an older woman believing yourself to still be about 20 years of age 

Both were  examples of transient global amnesia My uncle  might have suffered another from  of total memory  loss including any abilty to use learned survival skills,  but he didn't

Tga varies 

These are the common symptoms, and my dad had most of them, but he did NOT remember those closest to him

.Nor had he ever had migraines  

quote

What is TGA?

It's a sudden, temporary episode of memory loss that can't be attributed to a more common neurological condition, such as epilepsy or stroke

Your recall of recent events simply vanishes, so you can't remember where you are or how you got there

You may also not remember anything about what's happening in the here and now

You will, however, remember who you are and also those closest to you

It most commonly affects people in middle or older age

The underlying cause of transient global amnesia is unknown, but it is associated with a history of migraines

 

 

Sounds like a question for my Neurologist employer. Stay tuned.

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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Sounds like a question for my Neurologist employer. Stay tuned.

It's what laymen call temporary amnesia. There are two others, more severe and lasting.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
 
 

Jump to navigationJump to search WIKIPEDIA

Anterograde amnesia
Specialty Neurology

Anterograde amnesia is a loss of the ability to create new memories after the event that caused amnesia, leading to a partial or complete inability to recall the recent past, while long-term memories from before the event remain intact. This is in contrast to retrograde amnesia, where memories created prior to the event are lost while new memories can still be created. Both can occur together in the same patient. To a large degree, anterograde amnesia remains a mysterious ailment because the precise mechanism of storing memories is not yet well understood, although it is known that the regions involved are certain sites in the temporal cortex, especially in the hippocampus and nearby subcortical regions.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

It's what laymen call temporary amnesia. There are two others, more severe and lasting.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
 
 

Jump to navigationJump to search

Anterograde amnesia
Specialty Neurology

Anterograde amnesia is a loss of the ability to create new memories after the event that caused amnesia, leading to a partial or complete inability to recall the recent past, while long-term memories from before the event remain intact. This is in contrast to retrograde amnesia, where memories created prior to the event are lost while new memories can still be created. Both can occur together in the same patient. To a large degree, anterograde amnesia remains a mysterious ailment because the precise mechanism of storing memories is not yet well understood, although it is known that the regions involved are certain sites in the temporal cortex, especially in the hippocampus and nearby subcortical regions.

Aww thank you, I am also curious to hear what my Neurologist says too. 

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

Ahahahaha I said this 3 years before I left my 1st husband. I am so grateful I got up the courage to make a huge change. Just admitting I was unhappy was not easy.  I met the love of my life the weekend I moved out of my marriage. For us, my ex and I and my husband Sean we would all go on to be really good friends. My ex really liked Sean and vice versa, my ex was genuinely happy for me. He apologized for not being authentic and honest about the fact that he was really not a relationship guy. I will never love anyone the way I love Sean, it has been a fairytale ending for us, we truly adore each other and have so much fun together. If he goes first I will be moving to be with my kids and helping anyway I can to make their lives easier. All the best to you. 

Deserves a song:

 

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Sherapy
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Deserves a song:

 

Awww, thank you  John. :wub:

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

Awww, thank you  John. :wub:

From my heart to yours:)

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Hammerclaw
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Aww thank you, I am also curious to hear what my Neurologist says too. 

Do you remember that Adam Sandler, Drew Barrymore movie, Fifty First Dates, where her character suffered from chronic, short term memory loss? The strong performance by bother actors made it particularly memorable. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Sherapy
10 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Do you remember that Adam Sandler, Drew Barrymore movie, Fifty First Dates, where her character suffered from chronic, short term memory loss? The strong performance by bother actors made it particularly memorable. 

Vaguely…:D

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Sherapy
18 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

From my heart to yours:)

Awww:wub:

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Hammerclaw
16 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Vaguely…:D

It's a chick-flick even guys like

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lightly
11 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 

  Lightly said that you would reinvent yourself  if you lost all your memories, from the moment you lost them  

I don't recall saying That. :P.    I said that  "I am" more than my memories.    

But , I guess I did overstate  the equality of a memory of  the past , compared to a vision of the future.  The past is what it was,   while the future is malleable.

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joc
17 hours ago, lightly said:

Sure, Forgiving can help the forgiver ,.but it is also generally meant to help the forgiven....Feel Forgiven.  

 

511858086_doyoufeelforgivenpunk.jpg.adf64b055f7ccbe5e70b33240abcdf9c.jpg

 

 

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lightly

Well,  yes, I have felt forgiven before.   and ,oddly enough, it was when someone told me that they forgave me.

and each time...it was a relief.  It helps a person get over the guilt ,most feel, when they have somehow hurt another.

haven't you ever been forgiven for something?   Have you never heard the words.. " I forgive you"?  Or, seen the positive effect forgiveness had on someone you know? 

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Sherapy
3 hours ago, lightly said:

Well,  yes, I have felt forgiven before.   and ,oddly enough, it was when someone told me that they forgave me.

and each time...it was a relief.  It helps a person get over the guilt ,most feel, when they have somehow hurt another.

haven't you ever been forgiven for something?   Have you never heard the words.. " I forgive you"?  Or, seen the positive effect forgiveness had on someone you know? 

Great point, Our strategy is we put a lot of effort into not needing forgiveness, but being human there are times we are not always our best and we might be short with each other etc. hubby will point it out and it gives me pause to be more mindful and I will apologize and acknowledge my short coming not necessarily because I felt bad or even always notice what a brat I am being, but bottom line my sweet husband deserves to be cherished and treated with love as the norm. I look at this expression of “seeking forgiveness” as a way to make a habit of being kind and loving and I do end up feeling better. 

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lightly
Posted (edited)

^ Yup,   because Forgiveness works both ways....it makes the forgiver and the forgiven 'feel better'.    It's a healing thing.    I'm puzzled as to how forgiveness could seem ,to some, an unimportant thing .    And since the topic is Shame ..someone who is Guilty of hurting another often feels ashamed of themselves for behaving in a hurtful way.   Forgiveness can ease those feelings.

 Forgive me for mentioning it :P  but in the bible , sin is  Remembered no more    When it is forgiven.   It's just an example, based on human experience,  how forgiveness ,ideally, can work for the forgiver and the forgiven.

 

Edited by lightly
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lightly
Posted (edited)

I must be a rotten SOB...it seems I've had extensive experience in needing forgiveness.  :lol: 

Or maybe I'm just needy..as in needing Love.   Forgiveness is an act of Love.    Oops, I said Love again..that always seems to get some fur up !  :lol:

Edited by lightly
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XenoFish
1 hour ago, lightly said:

I must be a rotten SOB...it seems I've had extensive experience in needing forgiveness.

I never had/have time to get into trouble. 

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