+Nuclear Wessel Posted July 21, 2021 #151 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, eight bits said: Somehow, "My enlightenment is bigger than yours" doesn't sound enlightened. A little too egoistic for enlightenment. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightly Posted July 21, 2021 #152 Share Posted July 21, 2021 'Wisest is he..who knows he does not know'. I must be the wisest man on earth. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted July 21, 2021 #153 Share Posted July 21, 2021 51 minutes ago, lightly said: 'Wisest is he..who knows he does not know'. I must be the wisest man on earth. Observe... Quote [00.05:19] ~ 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted July 21, 2021 #154 Share Posted July 21, 2021 8 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Thus I have a wider and deeper academic knowledge of it than her. I also have integrated many of its beliefs and practices into my life for decades while she has only done so for a few years "‘By being alert and attentive, he begins to let go of cravings as they arise. But whatever he begins to accomplish, he should beware of inner pride. He must avoid thinking of himself as better than another, or worse or equal, for that is all comparison and emphasises the self’. - Gautama Buddha, Nipata Sutra Looks like Sherapy is just more capable and far more skilled at integrating and actually understanding these beliefs than you are, she's incorporated the above apparently in just a few years whereas you have made zero progress despite decades. (although I think her natural understanding of the above precedes her deeper dive into Buddhism) 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 21, 2021 #155 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Mr Walker said: Its not hilarious, but irrelevant I studied and taught Buddhism for many years as part of comparative religious studies Thus I have a wider and deeper academic knowledge of it than her. I also have integrated many of its beliefs and practices into my life for decades while she has only done so for a few years However its clear that Sherapy (as with everything) only sees what fits her own needs and world view My sources show that i was correct If you dont like google sources what else can you recommend?) I am not sure that you or many western practitioners really understand Buddha's core and original teachings, and what enlightenment actually means However that is fair enough as there are as many interpretations of Buddhism by its practitioners as there are for Christianity There are big national and regional variations in its teaching and practice . Very basically, like christian teaching, it is, at heart, very simple. quote In Buddhism, enlightenment (called bodhi in Indian Buddhism, or satori in Zen Buddhism) is when a Buddhist finds the truth about life and stops being reborn because they have reached Nirvana. Once you get to Nirvana you are not born again into samsara (which is suffering). Buddhists believe a person can become enlightened by following the Middle Way; the Middle Way is not too extreme in either way of living, neither an extremely luxurious life of ease and enjoyment nor an extremely harsh life on living on the minimum of the most basic necessities. One develops Sila (morality), Samadhi (concentration), and Prajna (insight or wisdom). This is thought to take a very long time, according to many buddhist monks and nuns. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_(Buddhism) idont know what you consider a long time, but i spent 10 years learning, and the rest of my life living by, those last 3 abilies There is no fear anger or suffering in my life No pain grief or sadness Like Buddha I haver tried hard to show people how living like this is a simple practical abilty we all have, but most peole don't believe, dont care, or lack the time and discipline to achieve it. Some find it incredibly hard to let go of past hurts, injustices etc. It is much harder in the west to find the middle way because we are surrounded by material luxuries and attachment s and are taught tha t we are important individuals Basically, as with Christianity, the message is that peace lack of suffering etc and other states come from within you, by right thoughts right actions etc. Thats an absolute truth which most people cant accept quote Nirvana literally means “quenching” or “blowing out,” in the way that the flame of a candle is blown out. But what are we blowing out, here? Is it one’s soul, one’s ego, one’s identity? It cannot be the soul that is blown out, since Buddhism denies that any such thing exists. Nor is it the ego or one’s sense of identity that disappears, although nirvana certainly involves a radically transformed state of consciousness which is free of the obsession with “me and mine.” What is extinguished, in fact, is the triple fire of greed, hatred, and delusion which leads to rebirth. Indeed, the simplest definition of nirvana-in-this-life is “the end of greed, hatred, and delusion”. It is clear that nirvana-in-this-life is a psychological and ethical reality. It’s a transformed state of personality characterized by peace, deep spiritual joy, compassion, and a refined and subtle awareness. Negative mental states and emotions such as doubt, worry, anxiety, and fear are absent from the enlightened mind. https://tricycle.org/magazine/nirvana-2/ By that definition I have existed in a state of nirvana for much of my life a t least to a very significant extent You can believe it or not but every day of my life is lived in the state i have bolded and underlined while i have felt physical pain i haven't "suffered" for decades. Suffering no longer exists in my life . I no longer choose to construct it. Awareness of this state of mind came through gnosis or enlightenment. A short but powerful connection to the universal consciousness made me aware of the true nature of life, consciousness, existence, and our place in it. Achieving such a state of mind (and associated behaviours ) in practice required years of study, practice, effort, and discipline. I began with fear which took a few years to eliminate and went on to the more complex emotional responses over time. This does not mean a lack of care about your life, or prudence, or caring for others. Indeed, those are a part of nirvana . Joy, peace and compassion, for example, are attachments and constructs, but positive ones. This post is one of judgement set up in a frame of competition. You are not enlightened, At best, you are defending your own delusions of grandeur. All the best. Edited July 21, 2021 by Sherapy 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted July 21, 2021 #156 Share Posted July 21, 2021 47 minutes ago, Sherapy said: You are not enlightened Just a reminder Sheri. There's a reason why he said: “Judge not, that you be not judged.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 21, 2021 #157 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, eight bits said: Somehow, "My enlightenment is bigger than yours" doesn't sound enlightened. Claiming enlightenment is the equivalent of not having it. Just a perspective. 10 hours ago, Mr Walker said: and yet Buddha was concerned enough for others, to preach and teach his way of reaching peace, and his understanding of the world . He didn't achieve nirvana and then just sit back and enjoy it He shared his knowledge and understandings with anyone who would listen. Why do you suppose he did this ? He didn't walk alone, and he probably shared a lot of his knowledge with fools who wouldn't listen Specifically, you are projecting your own opinion probably inspired by your SDA background it simply demonstrates your ignorance, meaning you are not aware that you are not aware, in other words, you are not enlightened at all. One must accept what is, not the tales they have fabricated in their own heads. What the Buddha taught was “if you meet the Buddha on the road kill him.” It means one has to be aware of and work through their attachment, you are stuck in delusions and illusions, and toxic righteousness. To understand what the Buddha meant by this you must kill ( figuratively) work through your constructs ( let them go) and then it will become clear to you. By no means is meditation the only way to do this, but it is a cost effective way to begin the journey/practice. Just a perspective. Namaskar, MW. Edited July 21, 2021 by Sherapy 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 21, 2021 #158 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Will Due said: Just a reminder Sheri. There's a reason why he said: “Judge not, that you be not judged.” @eight bitsI am gonna turn this over to 8ty as he is the expert on all things Jesus and NT. Edited July 21, 2021 by Sherapy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted July 21, 2021 #159 Share Posted July 21, 2021 16 minutes ago, Sherapy said: @eight bitsI am gonna turn this over to 8ty as he is the expert on all things Jesus and NT. Sheri, Now that's some critical thinking LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 21, 2021 #160 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Will Due said: Sheri, Now that's some critical thinking LOL “Critical thinking employs not only logic but broad intellectual criteria such as clarity, credibility, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, significance, and fairness” Wiki). In all fairness, when it comes to Jesus and the NT 8ty brings these elements much better than I do. For me, your quote is an opportunity for me to learn and read a post from 8ty that encompasses all of the above. Edited July 21, 2021 by Sherapy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted July 21, 2021 #161 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Will Due said: Just a reminder Sheri. There's a reason why he said: “Judge not, that you be not judged.” It'd be more compelling if he himself followed his own directives... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 21, 2021 #162 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Will Due said: Just a reminder Sheri. There's a reason why he said: “Judge not, that you be not judged.” Judge away--nobody cares. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted July 21, 2021 #163 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said: It'd be more compelling if he himself followed his own directives... He? Who do you mean? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted July 21, 2021 #164 Share Posted July 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Will Due said: He? Who do you mean? You're the one who said 'he', I assume you meant Jesus... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted July 21, 2021 #165 Share Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said: You're the one who said 'he', I assume you meant Jesus... Yes. But Jesus, since he even loves his enemies, does not ever judge a person's soul. It's been misconstrued that way by dishonest teachers (for certain self-serving reasons) but now the record sets all of this straight. "Your teachers have even presumed to say that I do my works by the power of the prince of devils. One near by has just said that I have a devil, that I am a child of the devil. But all of you who deal honestly with your own souls know full well that I am not a devil. You know that I honor the Father even while you would dishonor me. I seek not my own glory, only the glory of my Paradise Father. And I do not judge you, for there is one who judges for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 21, 2021 #166 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Jesus wasn't telling anyone not to judge others. He was pointing out that everyone is subject to the same societal standards of judgment. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 21, 2021 #167 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Will Due said: Yes. But Jesus, since he even loves his enemies, does not ever judge a person's soul. It's been misconstrued that way by dishonest teachers (for certain self-serving reasons) but now the record sets all of this straight. "Your teachers have even presumed to say that I do my works by the power of the prince of devils. One near by has just said that I have a devil, that I am a child of the devil. But all of you who deal honestly with your own souls know full well that I am not a devil. You know that I honor the Father even while you would dishonor me. I seek not my own glory, only the glory of my Paradise Father. And I do not judge you, for there is one who judges for me. Wait for it ….. ‘It is a UB moment. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 21, 2021 #168 Share Posted July 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Sherapy said: Wait for it ….. ‘It is a UB moment. Actually, Jesus judged people all the time. Woe unto thee, Chorazin! Woe unto thee, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the Day of Judgment than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. Matthew 11:21 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted July 21, 2021 #169 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: Jesus wasn't telling anyone not to judge others. He was pointing out that everyone is subject to the same societal standards of judgment. Not in my opinion. What he meant is, that by default, given we're all subject to societal judgement, there's ultimately a much greater judgement on high which a person becomes subject to when in their minds they cast judgement on another person's soul. You judge; you get judged. And likewise, in case you've ever felt that you've been judged unfairly by your fellow man, when a person is subject this way, there's a greater judgement from above that judges accurately. Eventhough by all appearances no such thing is evidenced. That's what's behind the wrongly accused often exuding an air of triumph. Like Jesus did many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted July 21, 2021 #170 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Will Due said: Not in my opinion. What he meant is, that by default, given we're all subject to societal judgement, there's ultimately a much greater judgement on high which a person becomes subject to when in their minds they cast judgement on another person's soul. You judge; you get judged. And likewise, in case you've ever felt that you've been judged unfairly by your fellow man, when a person is subject this way, there's a greater judgement from above that judges accurately. Eventhough by all appearances no such thing is evidenced. That's what's behind the wrongly accused often exuding an air of triumph. Like Jesus did many times. I don't accept that opinion, so to me it lacks merit. In my opinion, there is no judgment, no Hell and whatever follows after life, no one is left behind. There is no mean-spirited, cosmic hairy thunderer casting tiny, transient souls into a lake of fire because they didn't get the memo. What kind of masochistic fool wants to believe in a God like that? Edited July 21, 2021 by Hammerclaw 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted July 21, 2021 #171 Share Posted July 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: I don't accept that opinion, so to me it lacks merit. In my opinion, there is no judgment, no Hell and whatever follows after life, no one is left behind. There is no mean-spirited, cosmic hairy thunderer casting tiny, transient souls into a lake of fire because they didn't get the memo. I'm pretty sure you won't believe me but I agree with you 100% 5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said: What kind of masochistic fool wants to believe in a God like that? I have no idea other than to acknowledge that a lot of people have been subjected to an intense indoctrination from some misguided people who think they're doing God's work by causing division through fear tactics. Sound familiar? Today the very same thing is going on with politics. Today politics is a new religion complete with inquisitors and heretics. Even burning the innocent at the stake. You can see it right here in this forum in another section all day long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted July 21, 2021 #172 Share Posted July 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, Will Due said: What he meant is, that by default, given we're all subject to societal judgement, there's ultimately a much greater judgement on high which a person becomes subject to when in their minds they cast judgement on another person's soul. You judge; you get judged. The only non-hypocritical rule I've been able to get out of the 'don't judge' instruction is very narrow, that no one should be judging whether someone will be saved or not as that is no one's decision but God's, who will have mercy upon whom they'll have mercy. Everything else seems to apparently be fair game, I don't think one can really have an understanding of 'sin' without at least a whiff of judgment involved, and I'm pretty sure Christians are required to judge each other as they have a responsibility to their brethren if they are straying, as well as a responsibility in some circles to not be in "Fellowship" with non-Christians. No reason to flip tables and drive out livestock with a whip in the temple unless there is some serious judging going on. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted July 21, 2021 #173 Share Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Will Due said: Today politics is a new religion complete with inquisitors and heretics. And overwrought and dramatic exaggeration... 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 21, 2021 #174 Share Posted July 21, 2021 My awakening started around 4:30 this morning, due to a nature call. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted July 21, 2021 #175 Share Posted July 21, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said: The only non-hypocritical rule I've been able to get out of the 'don't judge' instruction is very narrow, that no one should be judging whether someone will be saved or not as that is no one's decision but God's, who will have mercy upon whom they'll have mercy. Everything else seems to apparently be fair game, I don't think one can really have an understanding of 'sin' without at least a whiff of judgment involved, and I'm pretty sure Christians are required to judge each other as they have a responsibility to their brethren if they are straying, as well as a responsibility in some circles to not be in "Fellowship" with non-Christians. No reason to flip tables and drive out livestock with a whip in the temple unless there is some serious judging going on. Alright LG. Because Jimi is one of your heroes too like he is for me, I'll attempt again if you don't mind, to set the record straight There were reasons why the tables were turned over but that, Jesus did not do. Others did. In complete contradiction to how the story has traditionally been told, if you'll oblige me, here's what the record says really happened: "As Jesus was about to begin his address, two things happened to arrest his attention. At the money table of a near-by exchanger a violent and heated argument had arisen over the alleged overcharging of a Jew from Alexandria, while at the same moment the air was rent by the bellowing of a drove of some one hundred bullocks which was being driven from one section of the animal pens to another. As Jesus paused, silently but thoughtfully contemplating this scene of commerce and confusion, close by he beheld a simple-minded Galilean, a man he had once talked with in Iron, being ridiculed and jostled about by supercilious and would-be superior Judeans; and all of this combined to produce one of those strange and periodic uprisings of indignant emotion in the soul of Jesus. 173:1.7 To the amazement of his apostles, standing near at hand, who refrained from participation in what so soon followed, Jesus stepped down from the teaching platform and, going over to the lad who was driving the cattle through the court, took from him his whip of cords and swiftly drove the animals from the temple. But that was not all; he strode majestically before the wondering gaze of the thousands assembled in the temple court to the farthest cattle pen and proceeded to open the gates of every stall and to drive out the imprisoned animals. By this time the assembled pilgrims were electrified, and with uproarious shouting they moved toward the bazaars and began to overturn the tables of the money-changers. Keep in mind, the ceremonial slaughter of innocent animals as some weird kind "arrangement" with an erroneous idea of what God is (to supposedly gain his favor) was without saying, intensely abhorant to Jesus. So let me know if you think there was anything inhumane about what Jesus did that day. Edited July 21, 2021 by Will Due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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