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Guyver

A Life Without Religion

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Guyver
4 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

Wouldn't that be a part of a life philosophy though?

Yes.  I kind of use those terms interchangeably.  I like life philosophy, but I think people are more familiar with the term religion.

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XenoFish
Just now, Guyver said:

Yes.  I kind of use those terms interchangeably.  I like life philosophy, but I think people are more familiar with the term religion.

To me, a religion is just a formal organized model of someone else's spirituality and belief. I guess the only different is that one doesn't need god and the other does.

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Guyver
12 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

To me, a religion is just a formal organized model of someone else's spirituality and belief. I guess the only different is that one doesn't need god and the other does.

Excellent distinction.  In that sense life philosophy is superior to religion as I see it.  Maybe I should have made a thread about life philosophy instead of religion lol.

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, Guyver said:

Excellent distinction.  In that sense life philosophy is superior to religion as I see it.  Maybe I should have made a thread about life philosophy instead of religion lol.

I think the thread is fine the way it is. 

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Will Due
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Guyver said:

What would you expect if God was within you? Would you live forever as he does?  Would you heal the sick and raise the dead as Jesus did?

Jesus is said to have lived his life not as he wished, but as an example of living a life of faith and love for his Father, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  In any event, I’m not even certain that Jesus actually existed the way the Bible claims, so… I’m not sure why you’re asking me.  I also do not appreciate that you ask questions but don’t answer them.  So, do me a favor.  If you’d like to ask me a question, please be sure that you have answered questions that I have asked you.  Alright?

 

You asked: "What would you hope to find if God is inside you?"

An understanding of how to live in accordance with his will.

 

You asked: "Wouldn’t you expect to see God there? "

Yes. I see him there just like I see him everywhere making clear what his will is, to know how to live life according to how life is supposed to be lived and not in accordance with living it any way I please. It's not my universe and although I can choose to not live in accordance with the rules, living any way I want makes about as much sense as driving my car off a cliff. 

I like driving my car. Where there are rules that are obvious and easy to follow.

 

 

Edited by Will Due
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Guyver
3 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

You asked: "What would you hope to find if God is inside you?"

An understanding of how to live in accordance with his will.

 

You asked: "Wouldn’t you expect to see God there? "

Yes. I see him there just like I see him everywhere making clear what his will is, to know how to live life according to how life is supposed to be lived and not in accordance with living it any way I please. It's not my universe and although I can choose to not live in accordance with the rules, living any way I want makes about as much sense as driving my car off a cliff. 

I like driving my car. Where there are rules that are obvious and easy to follow.

 

 

So, to restate…..you see God everywhere in your life, and he is showing you which rules he wishes you to follow, or which actions to take, by pointing out the right path that represents his will.  If I have that about right….

I’d say that it could also be that you do what seems right to you to do, and in so doing you internally feel that validates approval in what you consider to be God, but that could very well be your own mind.  No insult intended.

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DieChecker
9 hours ago, Guyver said:

To Mr Walker and DieChecker, I understand that as Christians you are no longer required to keep the Sabbath, as you believe Christ’s sacrifice completes the law for you and puts you under grace.  It’s just that I don’t see the Law as coming from Loving God, I believe it came right from the mind of Moses directly because some of it was borrowed from the earlier Code of Hammurabi.  Anyway, I have no criticism for your beliefs because I once shared those same beliefs and it would be hypocritical of me to criticize you for something I used to do myself.

PS.  I believe in resting one day a week as well, I think it’s good for a person to recharge the batteries as Mr. Walker said, it’s just that I don’t make laws about it…..I just usually kick back, relax, watch the golf matches and take a nap.  :)

I fully believe most of the Old Testament is directly drawn from previous religions/philosophies/ideas. I think bringing a good story into your religion is an excellent idea if it helps teach something useful.

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DieChecker
4 hours ago, Xeno-Fish said:

To me, a religion is just a formal organized model of someone else's spirituality and belief. I guess the only different is that one doesn't need god and the other does.

I believe there are godless religions. I think the difference is a belief in a supernatural element. :tu:

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Guyver
1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

I fully believe most of the Old Testament is directly drawn from previous religions/philosophies/ideas. I think bringing a good story into your religion is an excellent idea if it helps teach something useful.

Wow.  I would not have expected that response from you, being a Christian.  You must be a very - excuse the expression - liberally minded Christian.  No insult intended - but like some Catholics.  And the Catholics in many places are fine people, I love the ones I know from my family, and of course it has been a brutal ride for them with all the priest scandal and everything, but yes, I would consider that a very liberal viewpoint, considering the way it was written.

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Guyver
2 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I believe there are godless religions. I think the difference is a belief in a supernatural element. :tu:

I believe in a supernatural element of some type, but I claim to be not religious.  I like the term life philosophy.  I think it’s important for a person to develop a life philosophy and practice it because the mind can be lazy.  Anyway, here’s the thing.  I know there is something supernatural because I have experienced it.  But, isn’t it possible for me to have experienced something else that could be confused with the supernatural?  I mean, I’m only a man, and by nature we humans are of limited intelligence in many ways.

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XenoFish
6 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

I believe there are godless religions. I think the difference is a belief in a supernatural element. :tu:

There's always some ideology out there that people practically or literally worship. 

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Guyver
2 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

There's always some ideology out there that people practically or literally worship. 

You know, our ancestors used to make big fires, get ripped, play drums and dance about with all sorts of beliefs associated with them and their cultures.  It’s in our nature to believe things, it goes way back deep.

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DieChecker
Just now, Guyver said:

Wow.  I would not have expected that response from you, being a Christian.  You must be a very - excuse the expression - liberally minded Christian.  No insult intended - but like some Catholics.  And the Catholics in many places are fine people, I love the ones I know from my family, and of course it has been a brutal ride for them with all the priest scandal and everything, but yes, I would consider that a very liberal viewpoint, considering the way it was written.

I'd tend to agree. My coming to Christianity around 30 led me to a weird angle on which to view the Bible and various Christian traditions. I like to think that I'm a thinking Christian and not just a sheep.

Well when there's proof in more ancient texts of parallel ideas... Whats the defense paradigm? That God/Devil created artifacts and buried them to confuse us? I don't buy the excuses. Its pretty clear the Earth isn't 6000 years old. Its billions of years old.

Given that, I still find room for a Creator, and a Savior, who died so we all might be saved. I find no contradictions in belief of that and science.

IMHO the Bible is the God INSPIRED words of God, written by men who were failable and translating what they'd experienced. Just as there's Four Gospels, everything is a personal interpretation of a God interaction. The Bible is a learning tool. It is not history, or science.

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DieChecker
5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I believe in a supernatural element of some type, but I claim to be not religious.  I like the term life philosophy.  I think it’s important for a person to develop a life philosophy and practice it because the mind can be lazy.  Anyway, here’s the thing.  I know there is something supernatural because I have experienced it.  But, isn’t it possible for me to have experienced something else that could be confused with the supernatural?  I mean, I’m only a man, and by nature we humans are of limited intelligence in many ways.

Lots of people "feel" like they've encountered something weird. Bigfoot, UFOs, angels, miracles... To them its real. So 100% its possible the supernatural elements are imagined, or otherwise believed, but not evidenced.

I'd also suggest a religion usually needs followers. I'm not sure a person can be a religion of one. :innocent:

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DieChecker
8 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

There's always some ideology out there that people practically or literally worship. 

There's some real political stuff going on these days with several issues that are almost treated as holy/sacred. Philosophies that are toxic can be about just about anything, IMHO. :tu:

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XenoFish
1 minute ago, DieChecker said:

There's some real political stuff going on these days with several issues that are almost treated as holy/sacred. Philosophies that are toxic can be about just about anything, IMHO. :tu:

 

7 minutes ago, Guyver said:

You know, our ancestors used to make big fires, get ripped, play drums and dance about with all sorts of beliefs associated with them and their cultures.  It’s in our nature to believe things, it goes way back deep.

Guess that's why I flirt with nihilism. I have trouble believing something's "important", when nothing actually is. 

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Guyver
50 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Lots of people "feel" like they've encountered something weird. Bigfoot, UFOs, angels, miracles... To them its real. So 100% its possible the supernatural elements are imagined, or otherwise believed, but not evidenced.

I'd also suggest a religion usually needs followers. I'm not sure a person can be a religion of one. :innocent:

I know the difference between believing and real.  I may be a crazy b****** but at least I have that part settled in my mind.

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Guyver
1 hour ago, Xeno-Fish said:

 

Guess that's why I flirt with nihilism. I have trouble believing something's "important", when nothing actually is. 

Right but if he’s referring to CRT, I’m on the band wagon of effery on the highest of levels on this one.  That is bull**** on the highest of levels.  It’s literally the kind of racism that could rip our country apart and start another freaking civil war.  It sucks.  CRT is the purest example of racism going on right now.  How this could actually be a thing, is one small confirmation in my mind that we actually live in hell.  We are here to be punished, but damned if I can figure out why.  That might be a little extreme, but it sure seems like it sometimes. CRT is racism.  Racism is supposed to be bad.  Oh…you mean it’s not?  Wow.

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Guyver

These people don’t know much about rednecks, this could get messy.

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Mr Walker
16 hours ago, Guyver said:

To Mr Walker and DieChecker, I understand that as Christians you are no longer required to keep the Sabbath, as you believe Christ’s sacrifice completes the law for you and puts you under grace.  It’s just that I don’t see the Law as coming from Loving God, I believe it came right from the mind of Moses directly because some of it was borrowed from the earlier Code of Hammurabi.  Anyway, I have no criticism for your beliefs because I once shared those same beliefs and it would be hypocritical of me to criticize you for something I used to do myself.

PS.  I believe in resting one day a week as well, I think it’s good for a person to recharge the batteries as Mr. Walker said, it’s just that I don’t make laws about it…..I just usually kick back, relax, watch the golf matches and take a nap.  :)

I 'm not really a christian other than for personal and social reasons.  I have a personal and individual relationship with "god"

I keep the Sabbath as part  of those personal  and social reasons  but like you I don't keep them religiously.

A loving god doesn't expect me to  If he made them he made them from love for our benefit and if the y hurt us we shouldn't obey them 

I also believe that if you  follow a religion you should follow it's basic positive tenets 

Keeping the Sabbath is one of the 10 commandments, and thus gods direct law within Christian, Jewish and Muslim  theology .

Plus, as you say,  it makes physical and psychological sense to take one day a week off, for rest relaxation and contemplation 

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, Guyver said:

Right but if he’s referring to CRT, I’m on the band wagon of effery on the highest of levels on this one.  That is bull**** on the highest of levels.  It’s literally the kind of racism that could rip our country apart and start another freaking civil war.  It sucks.  CRT is the purest example of racism going on right now.  How this could actually be a thing, is one small confirmation in my mind that we actually live in hell.  We are here to be punished, but damned if I can figure out why.  That might be a little extreme, but it sure seems like it sometimes. CRT is racism.  Racism is supposed to be bad.  Oh…you mean it’s not?  Wow.

Do you mean critical race theory 

I am unfamiliar with it, but a quick  google suggests it is  anti racist 

It aims to eliminate racism, but the means it suggests are not universally liked or accepted. 

I tend to agree with its view that 

Social problems are influenced and created more by societal structures and cultural assumptions than by individual and psychological factors.[5]

"Feminists" are beginning to argue the same for institutionalised sexism, inequality, and rape . 

 

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Crazy Horse
3 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Do you mean critical race theory 

I am unfamiliar with it, but a quick  google suggests it is  anti racist 

It aims to eliminate racism, but the means it suggests are not universally liked or accepted. 

I tend to agree with its view that 

Social problems are influenced and created more by societal structures and cultural assumptions than by individual and psychological factors.[5]

"Feminists" are beginning to argue the same for institutionalised sexism, inequality, and rape . 

 

If we blame society, or the culture, then everyone gets treated like a criminal, and everyone must bend to those new norms, laws, etc for the benefit of the whole, which is basically Marxism no, even if the vast majority of folk are good, decent, honest people.

Society doesn't rape nor is it racist etc, that would being certain individuals who cannot control themselves, and, or, are full of hate, and that's where the answers and the punishments must be too.

Its just another way to take away peoples freedoms and rights etc.

 

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ant0n
20 hours ago, Guyver said:

Well, the thread hasn’t died yet, so maybe there’s more to learn?  I’d say that this thread has helped me come to terms with things as they are, and make the adjustment of switching from believing in religion as a primary means of living, to one where I live whether I have religion or not, and it’s up to me to decide how I wish to live my life rather than relying on religion to instruct me.

You may just have to erase the word 'religion' from your vocabulary.

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Guyver
13 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Do you mean critical race theory 

I am unfamiliar with it, but a quick  google suggests it is  anti racist 

It aims to eliminate racism, but the means it suggests are not universally liked or accepted. 

I tend to agree with its view that 

Social problems are influenced and created more by societal structures and cultural assumptions than by individual and psychological factors.[5]

"Feminists" are beginning to argue the same for institutionalised sexism, inequality, and rape . 

 

Reading a couple links about it is not going to give you the fullness on what is being proposed by adherents.  They are blaming white people for race problems in America, and literally blaming white people now for what they consider institutionalized racism going back to the start of our country.  One mayor of a large city said that she would no longer grant interviews to any journalist who is not “colored.”  So, caucasians need not apply. That is racist because it singles out a group (white people) and discriminates against them because of their skin color.  And this is only the tip of the iceberg.  But since this thread is not about racism or politics, I guess I should drop this tangent. So, nevermind.

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jmccr8
15 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I 'm not really a christian other than for personal and social reasons. 

:lol::whistle:

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