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Guyver

A Life Without Religion

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Guyver
1 minute ago, cormac mac airt said:

To your first paragraph, yes there’s no end to the depths of God’s unquestioned wrath. 
 

To your second paragraph, I’d say it has less to do with God, specifically, and more to do with the Israelites, who were originally Canaanite to begin with, trying to reconcile the two gods, Canaanite El and Midianite Yahweh, into what became the Bible’s God Yahweh. Some aspects were undoubtedly irreconcilable. 
 

cormac

True, but believers in that religion do not accept that.  It’s the pagan view of it.  Regardless of how it started, Christians promote the idea that they got from the Jews that there is only one God and YHWH is the One.

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XenoFish
13 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Religion.  When I was a lost sinner, some people told me that God loved me and that made me feel good.

When it takes a human sacrifice to 'wash away sin', it doesn't make god sound loving. That's the thing with cults. Imaginary problems with imaginary solutions. 

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cormac mac airt
8 minutes ago, Guyver said:

True, but believers in that religion do not accept that.  It’s the pagan view of it.  Regardless of how it started, Christians promote the idea that they got from the Jews that there is only one God and YHWH is the One.

Believers are entitled to their own beliefs, however they ARE NOT entitled to their own facts as disappointing as that may be for them. 
 

cormac

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Guyver
11 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

When it takes a human sacrifice to 'wash away sin', it doesn't make god sound loving. That's the thing with cults. Imaginary problems with imaginary solutions. 

Human or animal sacrifice, it’s sickening to me.  I don’t see how a God smart enough to make the entire universe would be pleased by you or I slaying a goat to pay the penalty for our sins.  Slaying the innocent frees the guilty?  In any event, many of the Christian people would counter that God did not offer a human sacrifice, he sacrificed himself for us because they believe that Jesus is God.

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Guyver
6 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Believers are entitled to their own beliefs, however they ARE NOT entitled to their own facts as disappointing as that may be for them. 
 

cormac

I agree.  But a real believer would not accept what you say because they claim you have the facts wrong.  You don’t know because you don’t know God.  If you knew God, then you would know that He wrote the Bible, that is the truth and every thing else is false.  Evolution is a lie from the Devil.  Dinosaurs came on the ark with Noah and later died out.

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XenoFish
Just now, Guyver said:

Human or animal sacrifice, it’s sickening to me.  I don’t see how a God smart enough to make the entire universe would be pleased by you or I slaying a goat to pay the penalty for our sins.  Slaying the innocent frees the guilty?  In any event, many of the Christian people would counter that God did not offer a human sacrifice, he sacrificed himself for us because they believe that Jesus is God.

If God had to sacrifice himself to himself, then god is an idiot. I mean a cosmos creating entity that can create star, yet can't fix a small problem such as 'sin'. 

I wouldn't consider such a thing god.

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Guyver
1 minute ago, Xeno-Fish said:

If God had to sacrifice himself to himself, then god is an idiot. I mean a cosmos creating entity that can create star, yet can't fix a small problem such as 'sin'. 

I wouldn't consider such a thing god.

I concur exactly.  

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cormac mac airt
7 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I agree.  But a real believer would not accept what you say because they claim you have the facts wrong.  You don’t know because you don’t know God.  If you knew God, then you would know that He wrote the Bible, that is the truth and every thing else is false.  Evolution is a lie from the Devil.  Dinosaurs came on the ark with Noah and later died out.

I’ve been on the other side, I understand how willing a person must be to willfully lie to themselves. Thankfully I grew up. 
 

cormac

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XenoFish

From what I can tell, religion is born from someone else's spiritual experience. The idea evolves. It grows more human. Making it a structured approach to belief. Perhaps deadening the wonderment of existence along the way. Filling believers with fear of wrong-think. In the end what might had started as a passive amazement of existence became a grotesque monstrosity. 

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Guyver
6 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

I’ve been on the other side, I understand how willing a person must be to willfully lie to themselves. Thankfully I grew up. 
 

cormac

Me too.  I’m just having a hard time not having anything to believe in besides myself.  I do believe there is something else because I have had certain experiences, but since religion can’t explain those experiences to me and I can’t explain them myself, I have to leave it in an unknown state.  I don’t know.  Since I don’t know myself, how could I tell someone else what to believe in?  Wouldn’t that be hypocritical?  And we all know Jesus does not like the hypocrites.  He does not like those people at ALL!

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Guyver
9 minutes ago, Xeno-Fish said:

From what I can tell, religion is born from someone else's spiritual experience. The idea evolves. It grows more human. Making it a structured approach to belief. Perhaps deadening the wonderment of existence along the way. Filling believers with fear of wrong-think. In the end what might had started as a passive amazement of existence became a grotesque monstrosity. 

Yep.  I give you Elkhart Tollee.  Hope I spelled that right.  You can you tube this guy, but I first read his book The Power of Now.  I actually really liked the book, though I didn’t agree with all his points or beliefs, but he really did crush the time thing.  Anyway, he’s so calm, his voice is very soothing.  He’s kind of a freakishly wimpy little feller, but he does have a VERY peaceful vibe.  He is like a yogi from the 70’s as Psyche referenced earlier - but the fact is that that stuff does work for some people.  The Beatles are said to have been very freed by that experience and some people say that they observed a physical manifestation of fruit by a yogi.  Anyway, point being….if one struggles with self control, as I have to some degree for a long time, this type of thing does help you control your behavior.

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XenoFish

I don't know what to tell you guyver. I'm just some guy who drifting wherever the winds blow. 

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cormac mac airt
5 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Me too.  I’m just having a hard time not having anything to believe in besides myself.  I do believe there is something else because I have had certain experiences, but since religion can’t explain those experiences to me and I can’t explain them myself, I have to leave it in an unknown state.  I don’t know.  Since I don’t know myself, how could I tell someone else what to believe in?  Wouldn’t that be hypocritical?  And we all know Jesus does not like the hypocrites.  He does not like those people at ALL!

I don’t have as hard a time as even science says that energy cannot be created or destroyed, just converted. So what makes up my physical being will continue, just not in any physical or conscious way as to be recognized as me. I’m fine with that. 
 

cormac

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papageorge1
2 hours ago, Guyver said:

I didn’t look it up, but in its most common usage, religion is a noun, it’s a thing where people share a common system of beliefs and practices, that may include any number of different observations, or celebrations of various events or people, as in Christianity or Islam.  Why are you reluctant to discuss your beliefs or religion?

I thought I expressed my personal beliefs in my first post on this thread.

 I am a follower of Advaita Vedanta Hindu philosophy and Theosophical/Spiritual stuff. I have no affiliation with any organization.

 

These are known terms. If you have specific questions about them I will answer those. Advaita means non-dual (not-two meaning God/Brahman/Source and creation are not-two). 

I guess I also was trying to find out if you would consider that a life with or without religion (going back to the thread title and OP).

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Guyver
43 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I thought I expressed my personal beliefs in my first post on this thread.

 I am a follower of Advaita Vedanta Hindu philosophy and Theosophical/Spiritual stuff. I have no affiliation with any organization.

 

These are known terms. If you have specific questions about them I will answer those. Advaita means non-dual (not-two meaning God/Brahman/Source and creation are not-two). 

I guess I also was trying to find out if you would consider that a life with or without religion (going back to the thread title and OP).

So, you believe God is all.  Why didn’t you just say so?  You could be right, I just don’t feel it due to physical suffering and death.  Why must death be a part of life?  It seems more of a penalty.

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papageorge1
25 minutes ago, Guyver said:

So, you believe God is all.  Why didn’t you just say so?  You could be right, I just don’t feel it due to physical suffering and death.  Why must death be a part of life?  It seems more of a penalty.

Well it took me some time to grasp what Advaita is saying. An infinity as a finite being may be more of a penalty. And 'there is no death'. The body is seen as a temporary vehicle for an advancing soul.

But anyway, do you consider me living with or without religion?

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Guyver
27 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Well it took me some time to grasp what Advaita is saying. An infinity as a finite being may be more of a penalty. And 'there is no death'. The body is seen as a temporary vehicle for an advancing soul.

But anyway, do you consider me living with or without religion?

Do you have to meditate or pray or take any actions to benefit or advance?

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papageorge1
2 minutes ago, Guyver said:

Do you have to meditate or pray or take any actions to benefit or advance?

No. Detachment and compassion are more the keys.

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Guyver
2 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

No. Detachment and compassion are more the keys.

But detachment represents incredible self-control which is an attribute of godliness, so….IDK.  Maybe you have a combination of both attributes, and it suits you. You have beliefs, but you also have practice, so….I’d say that’s true faith.

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lightly

I'm stuck on my idea of a Universal BEING..  and three levels of our existence.  Our Shared BEING... Which IS our ,and all of, Existence.    Then, Consciousness ,which experiences (thinks about and analyzes) Existence in a personal individual way.    Then, our physicality and subconscious bodily functions.

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Herr Falukorv

Im not religious. None in my family is... No one I know is even baptised.
Not a single person I know of among my friends or coworkers are religious.
 

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psyche101
8 hours ago, lightly said:

I'm stuck on my idea of a Universal BEING..  and three levels of our existence.  Our Shared BEING... Which IS our ,and all of, Existence.    Then, Consciousness ,which experiences (thinks about and analyzes) Existence in a personal individual way.    Then, our physicality and subconscious bodily functions.

That's called a predetermined conclusion.

All faith relies on it. i.e. here's the answer, now go find the evidence for it.

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closed for business
51 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

That's called a predetermined conclusion.

All faith relies on it. i.e. here's the answer, now go find the evidence for it.

 

Lightly is a well intended member and appreciate your honest efforts to objectively test those points of difference and applaud your diligence for science as a realistic means of interpreting what our environment is and how do we relate to it to it Lightly has a life that may be vastly different tthen what you or I experience so neither of us can claim any more than it works for me

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lightly
7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That's called a predetermined conclusion.

All faith relies on it. i.e. here's the answer, now go find the evidence for it.

I guess that's true psyche, Except it's not really a conclusion ,or an answer, on my part...it's just an idea and a strong belief that I seem to be stuck on.  ;)     I've had this belief ever since I was a toddler sitting beside my mom in church...I just couldn't accept the God in the sky idea.  Even then I saw and sensed a more immediate 'answer'.  I don't understand it either :P

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Guyver
On 5/28/2021 at 12:47 PM, lightly said:

I'm stuck on my idea of a Universal BEING..  and three levels of our existence.  Our Shared BEING... Which IS our ,and all of, Existence.    Then, Consciousness ,which experiences (thinks about and analyzes) Existence in a personal individual way.    Then, our physicality and subconscious bodily functions.

Your beliefs are entirely possible.

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