Grief, sorrow after discovery of 215 bodies, unmarked graves at former B.C. residential school site

[Myles]

1 hour ago, odas said:

I immigrated to Canada 22 years ago however when I read about what has been done to the native population I cannot feel anything other then anger and shame. I cannot understand how one group of people can treat the other group like that. Robb them of their culture, freedom, religion, land and lives. And it still continues.

It brings out many feelings for me me as well.  I'm not even Canadian.  Treating people like that is such a stain on the world as a whole.   I can't say that I feel  shame though.   I had nothing to do with it.  

[odas]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

It brings out many feelings for me me as well.  I'm not even Canadian.  Treating people like that is such a stain on the world as a whole.   I can't say that I feel  shame though.   I had nothing to do with it.  

Myles, I had nothing to do with the Holocaust yet I still feel angry and ashamed that the people before me did this or let it happen. I am ashamed of us, humans. Now, I am angry and ashamed of what is happening to the Palestinians, and I have nothing to do with it.

As long as we, as humans, let such things happen and even repeating them, to anyone by anybody, I will feel anger and shame.

[Myles]

1 minute ago, odas said:

Myles, I had nothing to do with the Holocaust yet I still feel angry and ashamed that the people before me did this or let it happen. I am ashamed of us, humans. Now, I am angry and ashamed of what is happening to the Palestinians, and I have nothing to do with it.

As long as we, as humans, let such things happen and even repeating them, to anyone by anybody, I will feel anger and shame.

I feel the anger but not the shame.  I feel anger, sadness and disappointment.   It's the same with any past civilization that practiced human sacrifices.  No need for me to feel shame.  What they did was wrong and should be condemned of course, but I usually only feel shame if I (or family) was involved.   

[odas]

Now the UN is getting involved too:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/canada/2021/6/2/1_5452917.html

Wondering what happened to the people/"educators" who were involved. Did they feel good about themselfs? Were they proud because they did "gods work"? When they finaly died (assuming they did) were they hailed and remembered as good, devouted servants of god, country?

[+Desertrat56]

On 5/29/2021 at 1:25 AM, Tatetopa said:

I know several people my age or a little younger that were shipped off to boarding schools in the US.  None of the three have any good memories of their days there.  They were the US version of re-education camps for kids.

And there were the cases of children being taken from their parents in the southwest (mostly Navajo) and sent to be adopted by people on the east coast.   Such a long list.

[+Desertrat56]

On 6/1/2021 at 9:15 AM, odas said:

What else has been done to the native americans/canadians that is hidden?

I always say, I am not afraid of what we are told, I am afraid of what we are not.

It is safe to say that no other people have suffered more than the americas natives in the world, in the history of mankind. Many have suffered throuout history but the natives if the americas the most.

I know one of my Navajo foster brothers was given a vasectomy when he was hospitalized for a car accident and needed other surgery.   He was 12 and no one asked permission of anyone.  That was in 1972.    That is minor compared to other things but still horrible.

[+Desertrat56]

21 hours ago, glorybebe said:

Well, as I am only a second generation Canadian,  it was not my ancestors who did this, but, European descent people came to a land and eradicated multiple societies.  Their way of life was deemed 'savage' and they had to be re-educated. That is where these schools came in: to take the Indian out of the child.  There were not allowed to keep their traditions or beliefs,  they had to become Christians and even then they were lower than the white people.

And the question I have often asked is "Who was the savage?"   It is annoying the idiocy that comes from the euopean, spanish and british colonials.  The brutality and arrogance is something we need to remember and make sure we do better.   

[+Hammerclaw]

2 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

And the question I have often asked is "Who was the savage?"   It is annoying the idiocy that comes from the euopean, spanish and british colonials.  The brutality and arrogance is something we need to remember and make sure we do better.   

All Indian schools where Native American children were forcibly removed from their homes to be "reeducated and assimilated" have buried hundreds of children, acutely susceptible to European diseases. The same goes for the early Spanish missions. The Indians brought in by the Church, would grow fat on the unfamiliar food and die of diseases. They wiped out whole populations in California trying to save their souls.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Hammerclaw

[+OverSword]

About 12 years or so ago there was a priest who was being destroyed by the church and by elements of the Canadian government for exposing the shameful past of these schools.  I wish I could find some of those old articles and interviews.

[glorybebe]

Some of the survivor's stories are so horrifying,  it blows my mind.  If they could prove what some have accused the schools of, there are so many children they will never find remains.  According to one recollection, any offspring of the priests did not survive.

[Likely Guy]

On 6/2/2021 at 3:16 PM, odas said:

Were they proud because they did "gods work"?

An old girlfriend's mother went to residential school.. She told me that when she was caught talking Cree she was forced to kneel on bags of marbles to scrub the hallway floors by hand.. She never did walk right after that.

What sort of perverse/twisted mind could even think of that?

[glorybebe]

4 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

An old girlfriend's mother went to residential school.. She told me that when she was caught talking Cree she was forced to kneel on bags of marbles to scrub the hallway floors by hand.. She never did walk right after that.

What sort of perverse/twisted mind could even think of that?

The same kind if minds who thought that tying rocks to women to see if they would float.  In their religious fervor,  they can justify all kinds of unspeakable acts to prove their devotion to God.

[Likely Guy]

5 hours ago, OverSword said:

About 12 years or so ago there was a priest who was being destroyed by the church and by elements of the Canadian government for exposing the shameful past of these schools.  I wish I could find some of those old articles and interviews.

There was a whistle blower named Dr, Peter Bryce that was also hushed up by the Canadian government of the time.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2686200716

Edited June 4, 2021 by Likely Guy

[+Hammerclaw]

22 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

An old girlfriend's mother went to residential school.. She told me that when she was caught talking Cree she was forced to kneel on bags of marbles to scrub the hallway floors by hand.. She never did walk right after that.

What sort of perverse/twisted mind could even think of that?

Not just in Canada. It was just as bad in the States. The Indian children were forbidden to speak their native tongues and were taught English.. The object of their being there was to be assimilated. A lot of times, when they were returned to their parents, they couldn't talk to or understand each other, anymore. The schools were waging cultural genocide.

[Duke Wellington]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:17 AM, glorybebe said:

See, maybe because I am Canadian, this is the racism that affects me the most.  This is recent history.  This residential school was closed in 1978.  There were residential schools right up to the 90s.  It wasn't history that happened 150 years ago.  I know people who went to these schools and tell horrific stories.  When Brocket 99 surfaced, it brought home how the white community thought of the natives. And that was in 1989.  We need to learn about and confront history to keep from repeating our same mistakes.    

I get why there was focus on civilizing native American Indians back then because the conquered peoples needed to be integrated and able to function in our civilized society. But it was a different era, one where abuse was used to break their resistance rather than showing them a better way. In essence, to beat the native American Indian out of them.

Totally brutal, not something anybody would like to go through, and I feel for those kids who got beaten to death because they were resistant to cultural assimilation. And its not just us Brits that did it of course, not just other European colonial empires, but we let the Protestant and Catholic churches lead the way in `breaking down` these peoples. Using beatings, sexual abuse, and goodness knows what else.

This is a dam good reason why it was right to fight Hitler because this is what he planned for Eastern Europe and Russia. But I will say its kind of bad that its us Brits that he probably got the idea from. And not just that, the concentration camps too because us Brits definitely invented them in Africa.

Isn`t it about time the USA decentralised from 50 states properly into 66? (or whatever it is). Let what remains of the native Americans have their own proper states in the USA Federation.

[+Hammerclaw]

On 5/29/2021 at 1:17 AM, glorybebe said:

See, maybe because I am Canadian, this is the racism that affects me the most.  This is recent history.  This residential school was closed in 1978.  There were residential schools right up to the 90s.  It wasn't history that happened 150 years ago.  I know people who went to these schools and tell horrific stories.  When Brocket 99 surfaced, it brought home how the white community thought of the natives. And that was in 1989.  We need to learn about and confront history to keep from repeating our same mistakes.    

Some of ours were open into the '90s. Here are some of their stories.

Survivors of Indian boarding schools tell their stories | WKAR

[Likely Guy]

16 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Isn`t it about time the USA decentralised from 50 states properly into 66? (or whatever it is). Let what remains of the native Americans have their own proper states in the USA Federation.

Here in BC the native peoples never ceded their land. Only on small scales. We could easily have 20 or so nations. In large part the Chilcotin have been recognised.

[Likely Guy]

11 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Some of ours were open into the '90s. Here are some of their stories.

Survivors of Indian boarding schools tell their stories | WKAR

"I asked the teacher why she was teaching that Columbus discovered America when Indians were here first. She came over and slapped me across my face. "

Wow. Cancel Columbus Day and call it something else.

[+Hammerclaw]

15 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

"I asked the teacher why she was teaching that Columbus discovered America when Indians were here first. She came over and slapped me across my face. "

Wow. Cancel Columbus Day and call it something else.

I remember my mother telling me about a teacher that laid hands on her, once. My grandmother was waiting for her at school the next morning. It never happened again.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

I get why there was focus on civilizing native American Indians back then because the conquered peoples needed to be integrated and able to function in our civilized society. But it was a different era, one where abuse was used to break their resistance rather than showing them a better way. In essence, to beat the native American Indian out of them.

Totally brutal, not something anybody would like to go through, and I feel for those kids who got beaten to death because they were resistant to cultural assimilation. And its not just us Brits that did it of course, not just other European colonial empires, but we let the Protestant and Catholic churches lead the way in `breaking down` these peoples. Using beatings, sexual abuse, and goodness knows what else.

This is a dam good reason why it was right to fight Hitler because this is what he planned for Eastern Europe and Russia. But I will say its kind of bad that its us Brits that he probably got the idea from. And not just that, the concentration camps too because us Brits definitely invented them in Africa.

Isn`t it about time the USA decentralised from 50 states properly into 66? (or whatever it is). Let what remains of the native Americans have their own proper states in the USA Federation.

Won't happen. If it did, every non Indian splinter group would want the same treatment. It would lead to Balkanization and we've got enough of that already.

[Likely Guy]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I remember my mother telling me about a teacher that laid hands on her, once. My grandmother was waiting for her at school the next morning. It never happened again.

That should teach a lesson.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Likely Guy said:

That should teach a lesson.

It did. My grandmother was one quarter Cherokee and three quarters Scotch-Irish. A warning from her sufficed.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

On 6/4/2021 at 3:41 PM, Hammerclaw said:

,It did. My grandmother was one quarter Cherokee and three quarters Scotch-Irish. A warning from her sufficed.

Dude ... that DESCRIPTION of your gran is a threat, let alone anything else! 
...and levity over...

Same **** happened here in Oz, I even think we might have started the wheel rolling (America did follow our lead on “Aboriginal Relations” IIRC), and the majority of (go on guess the skin colour) of a certain breed of Australians all say “suck it up” whenever the Stolen Generation (which was multiple generations, so even the language we use is designed to limit the truth of it all) is discussed, with many even adding “they did it to protect children from abuse”. We’re in the middle of Reconciliation week here, and my work uniform is an Indigenous Design with the words “Reconciliation in Action” on it, and someone accused me of “pandering to bull****” for wearing it - obviously because my shirt identified my employer I didn”t call them the monstrous ignorant **** that they deserved to be called. 
Fortunately the next generation is being told the truth, or at least what the current generation of people who are teaching them believe to be the truth. This is, naturally, called indoctrination and spreading leftist separatistism by the usual people.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Dude ... that DESCRIPTION of your gran is a threat, let alone anything else! 
...and levity over...

Same **** happened here in Oz, I even think we might have started the wheel rolling (America did follow our lead on “Aboriginal Relations” IIRC), and the majority of (go on guess the skin colour) of a certain breed of Australians all say “suck it up” whenever the Stolen Generation (which was multiple generations, so even the language we use is designed to limit the truth of it all) is discussed, with many even adding “they did it to protect children from abuse”. We’re in the middle of Reconciliation week here, and my work uniform is an Indigenous Design with the words “Reconciliation in Action” on it, and someone accused me of “pandering to bull****” for wearing it - obviously because my shirt identified my employer I didn”t call them the monstrous ignorant **** that they deserved to be called. 
Fortunately the next generation is being told the truth, or at least what the current generation of people who are teaching them believe to be the truth. This is, naturally, called indoctrination and spreading leftist separatistism by the usual people.

I have no problem with teaching history, as long as they don't teach guilt along with it.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

13 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I have no problem with teaching history, as long as they don't teach guilt along with it.

Dearie, we’re Catholic. Everything we do is about guilt. Even maths - if I ate three pieces of cake, and you ate four pieces, how many pieces of cane are we guilty of snatching from rhe mouth of some poor orphan in Biafra?

 

 

 

 

 

* this is a joke