Giza pyramids

[docyabut2]

we to know the mummies  of the Giza pyramids were stolen.

   The absence of mummies in the pyramids has been explained by scholars in the past. They say that the contents of the pyramids–including the mummies–were stolen in ancient times by grave robbers. Curiously, 19th century Egyptologists who explored Giza, the pyramids, and the Sphinx had a different point of view about the chronology of ancient Egypt

[cladking]

4 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

 The Giza pyramids are just tombs .

The Pyramids of Giza are tombs built for three of Egypt’s pharaohs. The ancient Egyptians believed that when pharaohs died, they would move on to the afterlife as gods. These pharaohs prepared for the afterlife by ordering the building of enormous pyramid tombs for themselves, where they could store all the items they’d need in the next world.

It's a shame there is no direct evidence any great pyramid was designed or used as a tomb.  All we have is circumstantial evidence and some people just aren't impressed by it.  

If we just say the pyramids were tombs enough times everyone will believe.  

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, cladking said:

If we just say the pyramids were tombs enough times everyone will believe.  

You said you could read the Ancient Egyptian language without knowing the actual language  - many thousands of times - yet no one believed you - because experiments showed you couldn't.

You said the AE used a geyser powered funicular to build the pyramids - many thousands of times  -  yet no one believed you - because you never presented any evidence it was true.

You said lots of other silly things hundreds if not thousands of times and guess what no one believes you because you never presented your evidence, lied or mislead people.

That the pyramids were tombs remains a viable theory along with several other competing ideas - despite you saying thousands of times that it isn't and your ideas were thrown in the dumpster long ago.

Gosh you get a lot of stuff wrong.....and jabbered a lot for 15 years and accomplished nothing. Evidence will wins over gobbledygook and lies every time.

 

 

[+DieChecker]

The most logical answer is usually the correct one.

[Wepwawet]

Great Pyramid is about 4600 years old, a huge edifice in plain site that has been through a period of chaos some 400 years after it was built, then further periods of chaos and foreign rule until modern times. But, it's empty!, how can this be! impossible! something is wrong and it cannot ever have been a tomb as it is empty! But wait, surely the last pyramid they built must have had a mummy inside, after all, Ahmose ruled only about 3550 years ago, yesterday almost, so why was there no mummy! how can it be so that all pyramids were found empty after thousands of years. I know, they never had a mummy in them the first place as otherwise they would still be there along with all the burial goods, wouldn't they, after many thousands of years sitting there in plain sight, huge signs saying "I contain wonderfull things, rob me".

Going by the Abydos king list, the kings deliberately left missing from the list, Ramesses II and all the other dynastic kings who followed him, there are some 170 known kings, excluding foreigners. Only 27 of them have been found. Of those 27, five were found at Tanis, twenty in the KV35 and TT320 caches, and one each in KV55 and KV62. Tanis, even unrobbed, is not representative of the burial of Egyptian kings for the majority of the Dynastic Period. KV55 is also hardly representative of a normal burial, and KV62 also presents issues. Of the remaining 20 kings, even though he had "lodgers", only Amunhotep II was found in his own tomb, a tomb built specifically only for him, and family members of course. His is the only burial without some sort of issue. How then can the absence of a mummy or burial goods in pyramids dating from 4600 years ago to 3550 years ago be an idicator that they were not tombs, even if two kings had "spare" pyramids. I have not yet seen a reasoned argument to show that pyrmamids were not tombs beyond using the few anomalies to try to make it that they represent the many, or the absence of hieroglyphs in burial chambers before Unas, and those presenting this false argument usually conveniently ignoring the fact that after the OK the burial chambers of pyramids also did not have versions of the PT. The argument that lack of religious texts or images means that the king misses out on ressurection is also false. KV43, a tomb that was structurally finished, had barely any decoration, and the burial chamber was devoid of any decoration of any description. Did this mean that Thutmose IV had no afterlife? Can any evidence that lack of religious texts or images from the tomb of a king equates to missing out on resurrection be put forward.

[cladking]

9 minutes ago, Wepwawet said:

 

 How then can the absence of a mummy or burial goods in pyramids dating from 4600 years ago to 3550 years ago be an idicator that they were not tombs,...

There is no direct evidence of any sort that any great pyramid was intended or used as a tomb.  It irrelevant if the tiny little pyramids in utter ruins and built later were tombs or not.  The fact is the builders of the real pyramids, the great pyramids, never said they were tombs. never said they put a dead king in a tomb, and never said there was or had been a body of any sort in any great pyramid.  It is strictly axiomatic they were tombs because 19th century science couldn't imagine another use or reason to build them.  For better or worse we've inherited 19th century science whether it was backed by experiment or not so now we are stuck with pyramid/ tombs as though the terms are synonyms.  

[Harte]

21 minutes ago, cladking said:

There is no direct evidence of any sort that any great pyramid was intended or used as a tomb.  It irrelevant if the tiny little pyramids in utter ruins and built later were tombs or not.  The fact is the builders of the real pyramids, the great pyramids, never said they were tombs. never said they put a dead king in a tomb, and never said there was or had been a body of any sort in any great pyramid.  It is strictly axiomatic they were tombs because 19th century science couldn't imagine another use or reason to build them.  For better or worse we've inherited 19th century science whether it was backed by experiment or not so now we are stuck with pyramid/ tombs as though the terms are synonyms.  

Obviously power plants.

Harte

[docyabut2]

12 hours ago, cladking said:

It's a shame there is no direct evidence any great pyramid was designed or used as a tomb.  All we have is circumstantial evidence and some people just aren't impressed by it.  

If we just say the pyramids were tombs enough times everyone will believe.  

The  pyramids casing stones, evidence they were tombs, were taken off by the Muslims rebuilt the stones.  

[Hanslune]

3 hours ago, cladking said:

There is no direct evidence of any sort that any great pyramid was intended or used as a tomb.  It irrelevant if the tiny little pyramids in utter ruins and built later were tombs or not. 

There is no Cladking 'direct' evidence it was anything else?

For lurkers in Cladking's world the meaning of direct is. "if it doesn't agree with me it isn't direct and it doesn't exist'.

Also for lurkers here is a list of all the phrases Cladking uses. Read this and you will have consumed the bounty of his knowledge, oh and endless repeating and repetition of the same statements thousands of times are a BIG part of his 'tactics'.

Quote

Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet. Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet. Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet. Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet. Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet.Ramps are debunked. Stones pulled up side. Ramps not attested. Funiculars proven. geysers. Mafdet Lives. Tombs. Superstitious Bumpkins. Dragged up ramps. Stinky feet. System Overload. Stinky Mafdet Feet. Tombs. Dragged Ramps. Mn Canal. Geysers....

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Hanslune

[Thanos5150]

3 hours ago, cladking said:

[snip]  It is strictly axiomatic they were tombs because 19th century science couldn't imagine another use or reason to build them.  For better or worse we've inherited 19th century science whether it was backed by experiment or not so now we are stuck with pyramid/ tombs as though the terms are synonyms.  

1819:

Quote

This decision [that they were bovine bones], from such a good authority as that of Mr. Clift, naturally suggests the idea that the pyramids may not have been, as generally supposed, the burial-places of kings, but more probably those of the god Apis, venerated in their immediate vicinity-Memphis being the city of his residence. The authority upon which the notion of their being the tombs of the kings has been often doubted, so as to allow of many theories being formed respecting them, and when it is considered that it rested only on the communications of the priests of Egypt to Herodotus, (to whom they also stated that there were no chambers in the second pyramid, which has now, by being opened, proved the incorrectness of their assertions) it is still more weakened, and may even suggest a suspicion that they had themselves at that time, but a very imperfect and perhaps only a traditional account of these monuments. 

Of course, once again no matter that you have read this elsewhere. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Thanos5150

[jaylemurph]

12 hours ago, cladking said:

There is no direct evidence of any sort that any great pyramid was intended or used as a tomb.  It irrelevant if the tiny little pyramids in utter ruins and built later were tombs or not.  The fact is the builders of the real pyramids, the great pyramids, never said they were tombs. never said they put a dead king in a tomb, and never said there was or had been a body of any sort in any great pyramid.  It is strictly axiomatic they were tombs because 19th century science couldn't imagine another use or reason to build them.  For better or worse we've inherited 19th century science whether it was backed by experiment or not so now we are stuck with pyramid/ tombs as though the terms are synonyms.  

Yeah, it’s weird they didn’t leave more info placards written in the made-up language with literally no attestation that only you understand. 

—Jaylemurph 

 

[Hanslune]

3 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Yeah, it’s weird they didn’t leave more info placards written in the made-up language with literally no attestation that only you understand,

—Jaylemurph 

 

They did but as you remember Ancient Chinese, The various Mesopotamian civilizations and culture, Aborgines, Catahoyuk, 'Ain Ghazal, Jiahu Culture, Indus, Linearbandkermik, Norte Chico, Early Maya Culture, etc., etc.

Funny isn't it that none of them spoke  Cladking's goofy ancient language nor wrote in it - ever.....its almost like he makes of stuff pre-made to be ridiculous and easily rejected.

 

[+DieChecker]

Why did tombs move to secret, far removed, locations directly after they stopped building pyramids? What was the purpose of moving to the Valley of the Kings?

If building pyramids wasn't a tomb, then where are the pyramid builders tombs? Hundreds of tombs exist at Giza... of nobles and dignitaries who lived at the time the pyramids were built. If those minor people had tombs, surrounding the pyramids, where are the Pharaoh's tombs?

Edited June 17, 2021 by DieChecker

[Thanos5150]

16 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

If building pyramids wasn't a tomb, then where are the pyramid builders tombs? Hundreds of tombs exist at Giza... of nobles and dignitaries who lived at the time the pyramids were built. If those minor people had tombs, surrounding the pyramids, where are the Pharaoh's tombs?

Gadzooks. 

[docyabut2]

gee even in  the Khufu `s pyramid  his name was found

 

Khufu's serekh name is carved in a rock inscription reporting the "Mefat-travelling in the year after the 13th cattle count under Hor-Medjedu". The second source can be found in the relieving chambers inside Khufu's pyramid above the burial chamber.

[atalante]

7 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Why did tombs move to secret, far removed, locations directly after they stopped building pyramids? What was the purpose of moving to the Valley of the Kings?

If building pyramids wasn't a tomb, then where are the pyramid builders tombs? Hundreds of tombs exist at Giza... of nobles and dignitaries who lived at the time the pyramids were built. If those minor people had tombs, surrounding the pyramids, where are the Pharaoh's tombs?

The situation is like trying to find a corpse of Jesus.  The Old Kingdom kings were resurrected, leaving no corpses.

[Windowpane]

1 hour ago, atalante said:

... The Old Kingdom kings were resurrected, leaving no corpses.

 

So the broken bit of Khufu's sarcophagus is where he fought his way out after his resurrection, like something in one of those films with Rachel Weisz or Kurt Russell?

In that case, where is he now ... ?

[Golden Duck]

6 hours ago, Windowpane said:

 

So the broken bit of Khufu's sarcophagus is where he fought his way out after his resurrection, like something in one of those films with Rachel Weisz or Kurt Russell?

In that case, where is he now ... ?

They broke the curse. He crumbled to dust and was scattered by the breeze.

[docyabut2]

Maybe because then there were so many mummies were stolen to sell. Khufu`s body is still in his pyramid , why the shafts were built , the air shafts are blocked to mean that it wasn't  a travel of Khufu . 

 

https://ancientegyptonline.co.uk/pyramid-air-shafts/

Edited June 18, 2021 by docyabut2

[Wepwawet]

I'll wildly speculate that as, for various reasons, the two royal caches were made in the 21st Dynasty, the same thing may have happened at the beginning of the 18th Dynasty, and the kings' were removed from their pyramids and cached somewhere yet to be discovered.

The situation in Egypt was very different at the start of the 18th Dynasty, with a dynamic royal house consolidating power at home and expanding it abroad, unlike the situation in the 21st Dynasty with Egypt rapidly sinking and the state taking the opportunity of protecting the kings to steal their stuff. Yet by the start of the 18th Dynasty all the pyramids, depending on age, had unergone one or two periods of chaos or foreign rule. I wonder what state they were in, not good I would have thought. The Thutmosids clearly had had enough of royal tombs being signposts calling out to be robbed, and hid their tombs out of sight, and in a place that could be guarded, at least through most of the NK. They would not have needed to rob their predecessors, but I cannot see a reason why they would not wish to secure the bodies of their predecessors from further damage, and hid them away.

But, I've no idea at all if this could have happened, it's just an idea that suggests itself by the example of the caches that we do have, and the total absense of the remains of any king before Seqenenre Tao. It's very likely though that by the time the Thebans began the fight against the Hyksos, all the pyramids had long been robbed and gutted with nothing left to save.