Giza pyramids

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

9 hours ago, Harte said:

Yes, that is not true.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-tomb-of-queen-sesheshet-49733615/

Harte

I'm no t seeing it, Harte. I kno what your link-name says but I have yet to see any info that Sesh sat as a ruler.

This is Wiki: "Sesheshet, occasionally known as Sesh, was the mother of King Teti, the first and founding pharaoh of the Sixth Dynasty of Ancient Egypt."

Sesh was not mentioned as a Queen Ruler, as best I could see.  But I will say in advance that if she was the Ruler of that time, you have found ONE. That's all.
The issues is still alive, IMO, because beliefs and customs change over time. Sesh was 6th Dynasty with  lot of Rulers over millenia coming up.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

7 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Isn't there Pyramid Texts that clearly state the follow on pyramids from Gina were tombs?

What else would the GP have been built for? Monument? Then why the rooms?

 

Keep in mind DieChecker, that the Khufu Pyramid has a grotto with a well and a subterranean room attached below.
I think  these are strictly symbolic since nobody was to ever enter the pyramid after it was sealed. Not sure that answers your question.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

2 hours ago, Thanos5150 said:

If Pyramids not tombs where are the pharaohs?

I like this quote from it:

"37 pharaohs yet not one trace of a royal burial left behind by robbers? Even the unopened ones? 37 pharaohs in a row making the same dumb mistake over and over again knowing full well they would be robbed? "

Interesting. Thanks, Thanos.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

55 minutes ago, ShadowSot said:

 Care to respond to the counters presented so far? Aside from Hanslune comment, there's been a few others. 

 We have the tomb building context the pyramids fit into. 

 The pyramid texts. 

 Bodies having been found in pyramids. 

By the same token, in other cultures with tombs we also find them emptied, Greek and Roman come to mind. 

 

No response to you. You have apparently some ax to grind with me and you have gotten into trolling me. Ta ta.

[Thanos5150]

29 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I like this quote from it:

"37 pharaohs yet not one trace of a royal burial left behind by robbers? Even the unopened ones? 37 pharaohs in a row making the same dumb mistake over and over again knowing full well they would be robbed? "

Interesting. Thanks, Thanos.

You are welcome.

To be fair, I would amend this as discussed later in the conversation to note as towards the mid/late 5th Dynasty there are a few possible exceptions that have what appears to be evidence of contemporary interment, namely the pyramid complexes of Neferefe and Djedkare Isesi. Outliers regardless. See HERE. This is based on the RCD of the remains found which as noted are curiously significantly older than the accepted dates given for the reigns of these pharaohs and the Dynasties they are ascribed.  

A tough road to hoe but if you can skim through that thread to follow the conversation between myself and others I think you will find it uniquely informative. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Thanos5150

[ShadowSot]

42 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

No response to you. You have apparently some ax to grind with me and you have gotten into trolling me. Ta ta.

That was a pretty straight forward statement, actually. Oh well, maybe it hits a bit too close to home. 

[Hanslune]

3 hours ago, Harte said:

Yeah, but WTF IS THIS THING?

And WTF is it doing in the middle of a graveyard anyway?

Looks like a power plant to me.

Harte

 

It's a remarkably complex UFO trap

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I like this quote from it:

"37 pharaohs yet not one trace of a royal burial left behind by robbers? Even the unopened ones? 37 pharaohs in a row making the same dumb mistake over and over again knowing full well they would be robbed? "

Interesting. Thanks, Thanos.

All the ancient Roman emperor's got looted too. Most people trust that their empire/kingdom/whatever isn't going to collapse. In many country's today their heroes are buried in obvious tombs - if society collapses they will be looted and or destroyed. We are making the same mistake the AE made.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Hanslune

[Hanslune]

2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Hanslune, why should I ever do that? My failure to answer your irrelevant question proves nothing. They could be out in the desert
somewhere but because I know not where, that means they were stolen from the coffer...? I don't think so. Not at all.

I never proclaimed to have a theory on what happened to the Kings/Queens, I am only trying to say, neither do the experts.

Oh, maybe you should put a note by your avatar: "Only I get to ask questions", lol

[Thanos5150]

6 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

All the ancient Roman emperor's got looted too. Most people trust that their empire/kingdom/whatever isn't going to collapse. In many country's today their heroes are buried in obvious tombs - if society collapses they will be looted and or destroyed. We are making the same mistake the AE made.

As discussed in great detail though there is a lot more to it than just being "robbed". 

And as point of fact, in the case of the DE according to Egyptologists, and the archeological record in some cases, no one waited for society to "collapse". 

[Nobu]

2 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I like this quote from it:

"37 pharaohs yet not one trace of a royal burial left behind by robbers? Even the unopened ones? 37 pharaohs in a row making the same dumb mistake over and over again knowing full well they would be robbed? "

Interesting. Thanks, Thanos.

I respect your stance but I’m not sure why the debate. If I built a monument in an archaic lawless culture today…. Like rural Mongolia. I would expect that after 5000 years nothing at all would be left in it. There wasn’t locks and cameras. Theft happened . Period. And then more theft. And then…. More theft. And wait for it…. They stole some more 200 years later.

 

human nature. I’m not even saying you are wrong but I am saying that the evidence points to the other side atm.

 

[ShadowSot]

1 hour ago, Nobu said:

I respect your stance but I’m not sure why the debate. If I built a monument in an archaic lawless culture today…. Like rural Mongolia. I would expect that after 5000 years nothing at all would be left in it. There wasn’t locks and cameras. Theft happened . Period. And then more theft. And then…. More theft. And wait for it…. They stole some more 200 years later.

 

human nature. I’m not even saying you are wrong but I am saying that the evidence points to the other side atm.

 

 Yeah, open long enough and everything's stripped off. 

[jaylemurph]

13 hours ago, cladking said:

Why would it necessarily follow that if tiny littler ruined ,mudpiles were tombs then the pyramids that were built before them must be tombs as well. 

If the tiny pyramids came first then you might argue that that is evidence pyramids were tombs but they didn't come first.  

This has literally nothing to do with the question I asked. 

Since it’s clearly some manner of straw man, you’ll understand if I refuse to play your game and ignore this post in perpetuity. 

—Jaylemurph 

[Harte]

17 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Hanslune, why should I ever do that? My failure to answer your irrelevant question proves nothing. They could be out in the desert
somewhere but because I know not where, that means they were stolen from the coffer...? I don't think so. Not at all.

I never proclaimed to have a theory on what happened to the Kings/Queens, I am only trying to say, neither do the experts.

It's just ignorant to state that "the experts" don't have a theory on what happened to the mummies, given the written testimony from Ancient Egyptian sources that clearly show there was tomb robbing occurring, albeit from a later era.

It's like my graveyard pic. Here's a grave. There's another grave. These are all obviously graves.

But the hole? Why, that's altogether different!

The experts have no idea what that hole is for.

Harte

[Harte]

16 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I'm no t seeing it, Harte. I kno what your link-name says but I have yet to see any info that Sesh sat as a ruler.

This is Wiki: "Sesheshet, occasionally known as Sesh, was the mother of King Teti, the first and founding pharaoh of the Sixth Dynasty of Ancient Egypt."

Sesh was not mentioned as a Queen Ruler, as best I could see.  But I will say in advance that if she was the Ruler of that time, you have found ONE. That's all.
The issues is still alive, IMO, because beliefs and customs change over time. Sesh was 6th Dynasty with  lot of Rulers over millenia coming up.

Okay.

And WTF IS THIS THING!!!!!

Harte

 

[cladking]

4 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

This has literally nothing to do with the question I asked. 

Since it’s clearly some manner of straw man, you’ll understand if I refuse to play your game and ignore this post in perpetuity. 

—Jaylemurph 

I said; 

The papyrus to which you refer is from many centuries after the great pyramids were all built.  

There's little doubt that some or all of the tiny little imitation pyramids built in later centuries were intended as tombs.

You responded;

Quote

What exactly were you suggesting these dead bodies were getting up to to invalidate this? In my experience, the dead tend to stay that way and tend not to move far from where they're interred.

It is you suggesting that evidence there were bodies in the tiny little imitation pyramids proves that the great pyramids mustta been tombs as well.  This is a non sequitur.   It does not follow because the great pyramids came first and the tiny little tombs "followed".  Tiny little imitation pyramids are easy to make and serve well for tombs.  Great pyramids required hundreds of times more effort so would serve very very poorly for tombs.  There is no direct evidence of any sort that any great pyramid was intended or used as a tomb.  

There is only some circumstantial evidence for usage of tombs and IMO this circumstantial evidence is very poor quality and can be interpreted in other ways more consistent with the actual architectural, archaeological, and cultural context.  The actual evidence seems to clearly IMO say they were NOT tombs and there is no direct evidence to contradict this opinion.  

Edited June 8, 2021 by cladking

[aarvai]

2 hours ago, cladking said:

There is only some circumstantial evidence for usage of tombs and IMO this circumstantial evidence is very poor quality and can be interpreted in other ways more consistent with the actual architectural, archaeological, and cultural context. 

What do you think the purpose of the pyramids was if not tombs?

[cladking]

39 minutes ago, aarvai said:

What do you think the purpose of the pyramids was if not tombs?

I believe they were used as mnemonics.  

Important people were remembered by a star and Egyptians kings had a star to be remembered at night and the pyramid by day.  

The builders said this over and over.  They rebuilt the king as a pyramid that he might live every day.  Death was like a sickness because people wouldn't be remembered and when no longer remembered they "died the death".  To prevent forgetfulness and to preserve the good things about leaders they built pyramids for those who were justified.  

It's hard for me to understand how this isn't seen everywhere in the physical evidence, cultural context, iconography, and archaeological/ architectural record.  I believe if the evidence is ever sought it will be shown quickly and people will wonder how modern day Egyptologists ever got it so very wrong.  

 

The pyramids had more mundane purposes as well mostly associated with their role as a source of fresh clean water but G1 also serves as a time capsule.  Everything we need to know about ancient people and how they thought lies right under the NE corner of G1.  

[DieChecker]

On 6/7/2021 at 6:56 PM, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Keep in mind DieChecker, that the Khufu Pyramid has a grotto with a well and a subterranean room attached below.
I think  these are strictly symbolic since nobody was to ever enter the pyramid after it was sealed. Not sure that answers your question.

I thought the concensus was that the grotto and vertical tunnel were dug by grave robbers. They knew there had been a lower chamber built and so tunneled down near the pyramid center.

Ancient historians wrote that the Pyramids at Giza were opened several times and each time the current Pharoah had the damages repaired. It wasn't till the 7th and 8th centuries (Muslim expansion) that the Pyramids casing stones were taken.

Edited June 9, 2021 by DieChecker

[cladking]

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

I thought the concensus was that the grotto and vertical tunnel were dug by grave robbers. They knew there had been a lower chamber built and so tunneled down near the pyramid center.

This isn't possible.  Part of this tunnel is a natural cave. Part is a natural fissure with a constructed silo like shaft through it.  Part is hacked out of the pyramid and part is constructed as part of the pyramid.   

1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

It wasn't till the 7th and 8th centuries (Muslim expansion) that the Pyramids casing stones were taken.

This might not be true.  The pyramids were damaged in a severe earthquake and this probably allowed almost all the casing stones on G1 and G2 to be harvested from the top down.   

 

There is a "well" in the subterranean chamber that is not as it was first described by Graeves and has been excavated in modern times also.   The so called escape tunnel joins the descending passage very near the subterranean chamber.  

[DieChecker]

1 hour ago, cladking said:

This isn't possible.  Part of this tunnel is a natural cave. Part is a natural fissure with a constructed silo like shaft through it.  Part is hacked out of the pyramid and part is constructed as part of the pyramid.   

Ah... I looked into it again, and you're partly right. The well shaft was likely made during construction to allow workers to escape the lower gallery after it was sealed.

I had thought it was used by robbers. But now I'm not sure if it was open at the time of the first Europeans walking past it. 

Quote

This might not be true.  The pyramids were damaged in a severe earthquake and this probably allowed almost all the casing stones on G1 and G2 to be harvested from the top down.   

Regardless, they were carried off by the Arab Muslims. The previous populations wouldn't have dared to harvest the stones.

Quote

There is a "well" in the subterranean chamber that is not as it was first described by Graeves and has been excavated in modern times also. The so called escape tunnel joins the descending passage very near the subterranean chamber.

I think if there was still rubble to be excavated in the lower chambers pit, that Hawass would have dug it up and made a spectacle of it. From some fringe text I ran across it only goes 60 feet done. How it got "Filled back in", I've got no idea.

[Windowpane]

9 hours ago, aarvai said:

What do you think the purpose of the pyramids was if not tombs?

Easy!

It was a:

1. power-plant;
2. water-pump;
3. warning (by means of encoded measurements) of global cataclysm;
4. grain store for future generation after devastation of global cataclysm;
5. evocation of era dating to c. 10,500 BC (or earlier ... opinions vary);
6. refuge for people fleeing Atlantis and/or Deluge.

Some of these definitions might be wanting in terms of absolute accuracy - in which case, perhaps others would be kind enough to supply corrections (and additions: possibly there are one or two definitions that I inadvertently omitted).

The really difficult part, however, would lie in reconciling all these different purposes ... Trying to combine the power-plant and the water-pump, for example, might be a bit dangerous ...  And surely the safety of the grain-store would be endangered by the presence of a water-pump ...

[Golden Duck]

Just now, Windowpane said:

Easy!

It was a:

1. power-plant;
2. water-pump;
3. warning (by means of encoded measurements) of global cataclysm;
4. grain store for future generation after devastation of global cataclysm;
5. evocation of era dating to c. 10,500 BC (or earlier ... opinions vary);
6. refuge for people fleeing Atlantis and/or Deluge.

Some of these definitions might be wanting in terms of absolute accuracy - in which case, perhaps others would be kind enough to supply corrections (and additions: possibly there are one or two definitions that I inadvertently omitted).

The really difficult part, however, would lie in reconciling all these different purposes ... Trying to combine the power-plant and the water-pump, for example, might be a bit dangerous ...  And surely the safety of the grain-store would be endangered by the presence of a water-pump ...

You left out:

7. piezo electric generator for a 386 PC with an Encarta CD

[ShadowSot]

1 hour ago, Golden Duck said:

You left out:

7. piezo electric generator for a 386 PC with an Encarta CD

Oh wow, I almost about eddy

[robin37]

I had hoped to receive serious feedback about my site but the conversation has degenerated, often into trivial observations and assertions that have been doing the rounds on new age forums for years - go back to the beginning of this thread and read through the comments to see for yourselves how it must appear to a passing stranger.

The central argument of the hypothesis has been ignored - that Giza architecture appears to have been designed geometrically. Doesn't anybody have anything to say about Legon's findings, especially what he has to say about passage junctions in Khufu? And what of Butler's chamber/site plan correlation - is this to be dismissed as coincidence? Furthermore there has been no reaction to my paper https://independent.academia.edu/robincook  (the information is also available on my site) in which new discoveries are described - namely the reason why the descending passage is laid out the way it is, that Pi was consciously acknowledged.  And Jim Alison's evidence that Phi was consciously used at Khufu - does this not merit adult discussion? Why do you think the builders were so interested in Phi?

I have the impression that contributors to this forum are not really serious about the subject, or regurgitate things they've read here and there, or offer highly important 'opinions'. One contributor even welcomed another thread on Giza because there hasn't been one for some time! Where is there a 'worthy opponent' (as Castaneda's Don Juan  framed the concept) when you need one?

Anyway I enclose 3 illustrations of the geometry of Khufu based upon Petrie's survey. Can they be falsified, ie. do you think Petrie made mistakes? If not, do they not say something new about Khufu?

As a final plea could we please avoid discussing building hypotheses in this thread? However interesting such discussions they tend to divert threads, and this discussion is essentially about the geometry of Giza.