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Is consciousness the 'ghost in the machine' ?


UM-Bot
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In our fight to keep our superiority to other animals, we keep fooling ourselves. And I think our view of consciousness is an example of this. For me, consciousness is just a simulation of the reality made by our brain which is fed by our senses, and centered on our ego (us). We do some actions and expect some results, because our simulation (consciousness) showed us so.

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In the Advaita Philosophy I follow Consciousness/God/Brahman is fundamental and is not created by the brain ot anything physical. Consciousness incarnates living physical beings and hence consciousness being the 'ghost in the machine'  is kind of on the right track of thinking.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, josellama2000 said:

fed by our senses, and centered on our ego (us).

Nice. 

Staggering Egos.

Also like your "' simulation " bit.

Now, one wonders what the consciousness of a bot is like, like oh IDK say for an instance like a UM-Bot ? 

ps: no reply necessary there um bot.

Edited by Nosy.Matters
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4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

In the Advaita Philosophy I follow Consciousness/God/Brahman is fundamental and is not created by the brain ot anything physical. Consciousness incarnates living physical beings and hence consciousness being the 'ghost in the machine'  is kind of on the right track of thinking.

We are in the computer age, people have reduced themselves down to being like robots.

Just like with VR people have reduced reality down to being a simulation.

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Since the conciousness is connected to the body , can we heal our physical body and change our DNA with our intent and conciousness. The more one looks into DNA , you can see how incredibly complicated it is.

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That the brain is trying to understand itself is pretty remarkable. Is that even possible? The brain has to be simple enough for us to understand, yet complex enough for us to be able to understand it.

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19 hours ago, UM-Bot said:

For centuries, mankind has struggled to understand the precise nature of human consciousness.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/347487/is-consciousness-the-ghost-in-the-machine

I think this thread is interesting, it would be amazing to understand this concept. But until the scientists in this field of study can define Consciousness and identify what and where it comes from I am happy to continue to think I am in control.

Herecis a good Peer Reviewed article on the subject.

https://academic.oup.com/brain/article/124/7/1263/285461

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This sounds a lot like a way to plausibly reject the idea of non-local consciousness, even when there is zero brain activity.  It isn't even rare at this point to have people clinically dead who come back through resuscitation and report seeing and hearing things around them while the brain was not producing measurable electrical activity.  I've never heard any expert explain the mechanism by which this happens.

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Maybe the ghost is the machine in my consciousness 

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10 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

We are in the computer age, people have reduced themselves down to being like robots.

Just like with VR people have reduced reality down to being a simulation.

While people like you who continue to falsely believe colour exists outside of the brain.

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1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

While people like you who continue to falsely believe colour exists outside of the brain.

People like me who know that colour is sensory perception, not a property of light.

That is basic high school science. I`m not going to bother with you if I have to start by giving you a basic physics education. I expect people to be up to a certain level at least if they want to hold debates on science lmao.

Reality (aka, the thing we experience as being outside ourselves) is sensory perception.

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3 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

People like me who know that colour is sensory perception, not a property of light.

That is basic high school science. I`m not going to bother with you if I have to start by giving you a basic physics education. I expect people to be up to a certain level at least if they want to hold debates on science lmao.

Reality (aka, the thing we experience as being outside ourselves) is sensory perception.

Yet you falsely believe colour exists outside of your head.

 

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Just now, Rlyeh said:

Yet you falsely believe colour exists outside of your head.

 

You dont get it do you?

What you experience that is outside of yourself, is nothing but sensory perception. You are living in your mind.

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10 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

You dont get it do you?

What you experience that is outside of yourself, is nothing but sensory perception. You are living in your mind.

Which is IN your head.

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16 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Which is IN your head.

The in and outside of your head are your mind.

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Strange discussion this. Wavelength is a physical property of light, not colour. Colour is an experience in our minds that represents wavelength. However, the colours we see could just as well have represented something else, for example different polarizations of light (it is believed that some animals can see polarization but of course we don't know how they experience it).

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Posted (edited)
On 6/5/2021 at 8:20 PM, UM-Bot said:

For centuries, mankind has struggled to understand the precise nature of human consciousness.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/347487/is-consciousness-the-ghost-in-the-machine

Why? It is really not that hard.

There is existence beyond us, and there is us. 

Consciousness is an evolved cognitive interface  which interacts with both, and which  interprets, processes, analyses and makes sense of,  both our external reality and our internal one.

The higher the level of your consciousness, the more you understand your  self,  the nature of external reality, and the relationship which exists between the two 

 Self aware consciousness enables self direction, and control,  of; thought, language, (mental and oral)  and action.

eg a human being can deliberately act, based on an abstract construct like love, duty, honour, honesty, hate or pride,  OR they can choose not to act on those abstract concepts, and to act purely on result based decisions, ie using pure logic. to work out the  optimal/productive choice of action.   

Edited by Mr Walker
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A newborn baby is conscious and sentient but it is like an empty pitcher.  It doesn't know anything, not even what it means to be separate, unique, or individual.  It has to learn how to control its body and what it means and how it feels to be a separate, unique, individual, what time and space look and feel like, what "out there" looks like, and make memories of what it was like to live in a 3 dimensional + 1 time universe.   And perhaps this has everything to do with "why we are here?"   All the things a newborn baby learns it learns holistically, meaning its lessons are imprinted on it just as it goes about the daily business of living.   To learn holistically means that the lessons are embedded in your everyday life and you are learning all the time and don't even realize it.   So we start out with some form of consciousness but we have to learn enough to be able to distinguish "other" meaning that we are separate from the world around us.   

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On 6/6/2021 at 9:20 PM, Cookie Monster said:

People like me who know that colour is sensory perception, not a property of light.

That is basic high school science. I`m not going to bother with you if I have to start by giving you a basic physics education. I expect people to be up to a certain level at least if they want to hold debates on science lmao.

Reality (aka, the thing we experience as being outside ourselves) is sensory perception.

Not sure what you and Riyeh are arguing about here. 

Colour is a physical property  which exists outside of human perception. If all thinking beings ceased to exist colour would remain, just like all real things would .   

However, it is true that, like all observation, we construct a perception  of a colour in our mind,  based on the physical nature of that colour.

For  example, being a bit physically colour blind, I see or perceive reds and greens a little differently to a non colour blind person.  However, all people with good colour  vision see the same colour because  that is what it physically is  Just as we would all see a chair or a spoon identically.  

 

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If anything it’s the other way around. The unconscious mind is the ghost in the machine. That is unless of course being awake 14-16 hours a day working 8-12 hour days is the dream. If so I want to wake up now.

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On 6/9/2021 at 11:30 PM, Mr Walker said:

However, all people with good colour  vision see the same colour because  that is what it physically is

People with good color vision are able to identify different wavelengths of visible light, and certain wavelengths have been assigned common color names.  It does not follow that people 'see the same color'; no one else has any evidence for what my blue looks like.

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