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thedutchiedutch

4 killed in what police call 'premeditated' hit-and-run

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thedutchiedutch

TORONTO -- The Muslim community reacted in horror and shock at what police are investigating as a hate-motivated car attack in London, Ont., on Sunday evening that killed four family members and left a young boy injured.

Advocates also demanded justice and called for change that would put an end to what has been a string of hate crimes against Muslims in Canada.

“Our hearts are broken, our minds numb with pain,” community leader Nawaz Tahir told CTV News Channel.

Link to Source & Full Article https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/muslim-community-reacts-in-horror-after-4-killed-in-what-police-call-premeditated-hit-and-run-1.5460141

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and then

"There is evidence that this was a planned, premeditated act and that the family was targeted because of their Muslim faith," said Det.-Insp. Paul Waight during the briefing.

It will be good to see the evidence.  If the man did what they accuse him of then he needs to pay the highest price allowed under law.  

BUT... ONLY HE should pay that price.  

Elghawaby said, adding that there is a growing call for better regulation around online hate.

“We are just seeing this type of division manifesting itself online in particular and spilling over in these tragic outcomes in real life.”

The government in Ottawa can crack down even further on average citizens BUT, eventually, they'll become so resentful at being punished for things they never did that they're apt to create blowback.  

 

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aztek

CA gvmnt needs to shut the front door and stop fanning racial hatred before they have all the evidence, this may not have been a hate crime, it could be a personal thing, it was planed and premeditated. hate crimes are almost always random and crimes of opportunity,   gvmnt and media are responsible for hate crimes increase, they brainwash people, and make them hate each other.  another proof liberals need to go where they wont return from

 

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thedutchiedutch
8 hours ago, and then said:

"There is evidence that this was a planned, premeditated act and that the family was targeted because of their Muslim faith," said Det.-Insp. Paul Waight during the briefing.

It will be good to see the evidence.  If the man did what they accuse him of then he needs to pay the highest price allowed under law.  

BUT... ONLY HE should pay that price.  

Elghawaby said, adding that there is a growing call for better regulation around online hate.

“We are just seeing this type of division manifesting itself online in particular and spilling over in these tragic outcomes in real life.”

The government in Ottawa can crack down even further on average citizens BUT, eventually, they'll become so resentful at being punished for things they never did that they're apt to create blowback.  

 

You can bet the farm that if Canadian police comes out with a statement like this, and this fast into the investigation, (that there is evidence is was premeditated), that the evidence is overwhelming. Nevertheless this is a tragedy and my heart goes out the the family. Especially the little boy. So sad. Here is a link to some more information about this Tragedy. https://london.ctvnews.ca/trudeau-to-attend-as-london-ont-mosque-hosts-vigil-tuesday-for-victims-of-deadly-vehicle-attack-1.5460739

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thedutchiedutch
7 minutes ago, aztek said:

CA gvmnt needs to shut the front door and stop fanning racial hatred before they have all the evidence, this may not have been a hate crime, it could be a personal thing, it was planed and premeditated. hate crimes are almost always random and crimes of opportunity,   gvmnt and media are responsible for hate crimes increase, they brainwash people, and make them hate each other.  another proof liberals need to go where they wont return from

 

I think that they came to this conclusion so quick and made this statement about this being a hate crime and premeditated after talking to the driver of the pick up truck, don't you think so ? 

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aztek
Just now, thedutchiedutch said:

I think that they came to this conclusion so quick and made this statement about this being a hate crime and premeditated after talking to the driver of the pick up truck, don't you think so ? 

i do not need to think, i want to know facts, do you have the facts? did police say he confessed?

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thedutchiedutch
Just now, aztek said:

i do not need to think, i want to know facts, do you have the facts? did police say he confessed?

No i don't have the facts and I am not sure if he confessed. The police knows tho. Will wait and see I guess. 

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thedutchiedutch
Posted (edited)

Here is some more information. Suspects name is Nathaniel Veltman, 20, of London, and he is charged with four counts of first-degree murder and one count of attempted murder. 

Link to sourcre & full article : https://london.ctvnews.ca/police-say-driver-intentionally-crashed-into-muslim-family-in-london-ont-killing-4-1.5458887

Edited by thedutchiedutch
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aztek

so no hate crime charges, uh,  

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odas
52 minutes ago, aztek said:

so no hate crime charges, uh,  

Yeah, try your best to defend Veltman. This happened a short walking distance from where I live, in a upper class neighbourhood. The family was out for a walk. They stood at the corner to cross the road. Lights were red, other cars stoped, Veltman did not, he intentionaly sverved into the family, grandma, daughter, son in law and two children.

He then fled to the Mall, 7 kilometers away where he was caught.

Planned? I do not know. Instant thought? Very likely. The family was well known in the neighbourhood. I was there with my wife yesterday, left some floweres. All kinds of people were there, neighbours, strangers, white and black, christians and muslims.

But, yeah, keep on defending Veltman.

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and then
3 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Nevertheless this is a tragedy and my heart goes out the the family.

I agree, Dutchie.  It's just that we see a LOT of this kind of reporting these days in the U.S. and MUCH of it ranges from unfounded rumor to actual lies.  It goes without saying that when innocent people are intentionally killed, it's a tragedy for everyone who desires peace, safety, and justice.

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Weird.  Everyone says he's always been a great guy, and has never expressed hate.  But was wearing body armor????  Is he Jewish I wonder?   Veltman sounds like a Jewish name.  Could he be a little brain chemistry challenged and had a psychotic break fueled by tense relations between Israel and Palestine in the news?

Edited by OverSword
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odas
3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Weird.  Everyone says he's always been a great guy, and has never expressed hate.  But was wearing body armor????  Is he Jewish I wonder?   Veltman sounds like a Jewish name.  Could he be a little brain chemistry challenged and had a psychotic break fueled by tense relations between Israel and Palestine?

I believe he is not jewish, the last name is common in Netherlands. Anyway it should not be important if he is jewish, muslim or anything else. The blame is on him not his religion, nationality, race...Demonizing a whole religion throuout the history because of the actions of a few got us in this hate and terrorist crapp in the first place. 

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, odas said:

I believe he is not jewish, the last name is common in Netherlands. Anyway it should not be important if he is jewish, muslim or anything else. The blame is on him not his religion, nationality, race...Demonizing a whole religion throuout the history because of the actions of a few got us in this hate and terrorist crapp in the first place. 

I wasn't demonizing his religion I was questioning his mental state.  Read my post again, added a couple of clarifying words.

Edited by OverSword
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odas
8 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I wasn't demonizing his religion I was questioning his mental state.  Read my post again, added a couple of clarifying words.

I was not accusing you of that either. I said it in general since when a muslim terrorist guns down or drives over people the first thing people said here on UM, they know who they are, was blaming the religion. It is one man, his action, and yes, also the reason why, but it is never a whole community. 

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, odas said:

I was not accusing you of that either. I said it in general since when a muslim terrorist guns down or drives over people the first thing people said here on UM, they know who they are, was blaming the religion. It is one man, his action, and yes, also the reason why, but it is never a whole community. 

I was thinking more like he had a psychotic break and a chemical imbalance made him focus his rage at Muslims for whatever reason.  Happened to my friends son when he was about twenty.  Previously normal kid suddenly gets an imbalance in his brain chemistry and breaks down someone's door and holds her prisoner while begging for her to save him from people that were trying to get him.  Pretty much ruined his life for a few years.  Thanks to medication he's normal now.

Edited by OverSword
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Myles
On 6/8/2021 at 11:48 AM, odas said:

Yeah, try your best to defend Veltman. This happened a short walking distance from where I live, in a upper class neighbourhood. The family was out for a walk. They stood at the corner to cross the road. Lights were red, other cars stoped, Veltman did not, he intentionaly sverved into the family, grandma, daughter, son in law and two children.

He then fled to the Mall, 7 kilometers away where he was caught.

Planned? I do not know. Instant thought? Very likely. The family was well known in the neighbourhood. I was there with my wife yesterday, left some floweres. All kinds of people were there, neighbours, strangers, white and black, christians and muslims.

But, yeah, keep on defending Veltman.

I didn't take it as him defending Veltman.   He was more questioning the instant "hate crime" claims.   

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Dark_Grey

This story, as presented, is as fishy as the Nova Scotia shooting last year. The Police Chief never specified if this guy was wearing body armor, he very carefully said "something that resembled body armor" and every news station ran with it. The empty platitudes from Canadian officials are falling on deaf ears as Trudeau "stands with the Muslim community" when it may garner him votes but goes out of his way to avoid condemning China for literally enslaving Muslims. Funny how that works.

I wonder if this is related to recent events in the Israel/Palestine conflict. Some Jewish schizo made a last minute decision to run over a family of Muslims. Hard to say and we likely never know as the news will throw this in to the "memory hole" within a week or two.  

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Likely Guy
3 hours ago, Myles said:

He was more questioning the instant "hate crime" claims.   

From what I've heard so far, is that he is not known to belong to any hate groups (in person or online) but there is an issue with some deleted facebook posts.

I heard this on the radio today so I can't provide a link.

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susieice
20 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

From the updates you are giving, I'm thinking this person had mental issues and showed aggression going back several years to his parents' divorce. He was threatening to his mother and his parents had agreed not to let him alone with his younger siblings. He never maintained his treatment. He could have hated the whole world.

I'm not sure if this can be classified as a hate crime, but he was triggered by something and this family paid the price. It could possibly have been something going on in his personal life and he went off when he saw this family. That doesn't excuse him for what he did. But then, the article also says he was wearing swastikas and laughing when he was arrested. Unstable yes, but he doesn't have to be a member of a hate group to do this and they may never find a link to one. It was in his own heart. 

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odas
21 hours ago, OverSword said:

I was thinking more like he had a psychotic break and a chemical imbalance made him focus his rage at Muslims for whatever reason.  Happened to my friends son when he was about twenty.  Previously normal kid suddenly gets an imbalance in his brain chemistry and breaks down someone's door and holds her prisoner while begging for her to save him from people that were trying to get him.  Pretty much ruined his life for a few years.  Thanks to medication he's normal now.

Ovi, do you think that a normal person, a stable, average person, could do this, or shooting people from a window, or at a concert, driving over people? Of course Veltman was unstable, like anyone else who could do things like that for what ever reason they find in their head.

Also, @Dark_Grey , I missed the info that he is supposingly Jewish. Nowhere to find, but what has his faith to do with what he did? A loner, unstable person. That is all we need to know.

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OverSword
57 minutes ago, odas said:

Ovi, do you think that a normal person, a stable, average person, could do this, or shooting people from a window, or at a concert, driving over people? Of course Veltman was unstable, like anyone else who could do things like that for what ever reason they find in their head.

But you have to admit it's pretty unusual for someone to do this when that person is noted as such a great guy by anyone that knew him.  That's why I'm thinking psychotic break.  He's the right age and I know a good kid that it happened to.  Fortunately nobody died when the person I know had a incident but a nice girl got the scare of her life.

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Dark_Grey
3 hours ago, susieice said:

That doesn't excuse him for what he did. But then, the article also says he was wearing swastikas and laughing when he was arrested. 

lol I have yet to see that reported anywhere else. How interesting

1 hour ago, odas said:

Also, @Dark_Grey , I missed the info that he is supposingly Jewish. Nowhere to find, but what has his faith to do with what he did? A loner, unstable person. That is all we need to know.

I threw that against the wall but it didn't stick. Just a pea-brained speculation on his motives. He seems to generally be described as a nice kid with strong Christian roots. Maybe he snapped and took out years of pent up rage on this family or maybe he reached for his cell phone, hopped the curb and fled the scene in a panic. Either way, I noticed the news clips on Youtube this morning have dropped the "terrorist" headlines. That's Trudeau's $600 million media grant at work.

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odas
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

lol I have yet to see that reported anywhere else. How interesting

I threw that against the wall but it didn't stick. Just a pea-brained speculation on his motives. He seems to generally be described as a nice kid with strong Christian roots. Maybe he snapped and took out years of pent up rage on this family or maybe he reached for his cell phone, hopped the curb and fled the scene in a panic. Either way, I noticed the news clips on Youtube this morning have dropped the "terrorist" headlines. That's Trudeau's $600 million media grant at work.

The terrorist headline was not from Trudeau, that was the innitial statement by the police. If they missled me, they missled everyone including Trudeau.

And please, do not throw such things against the wall. It takes only a weak person to read your post and from some other mrmbers to believe it and look for revange. Please stop.

Edited by odas
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