Even Thanksgiving is canceled!

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

You doubt they are on some left leaning liberals radar as targets?  I don't.

No I don't doubt that.  A lot of folks can't differentiate between the leaders who take us into war and  the  everyday  citizens who fight it   

 I am somewhere stuck in the middle between: 

"Lets forget about all of those who put their lives at risk to protect us,"  the hard left

and

"Lets celebrate the day you gave us food and then we slaughtered you." the hard right

[+OverSword]

7 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

No I don't doubt that.  A lot of folks can't differentiate between the leaders who take us into war and  the  everyday  citizens who fight it   

 I am somewhere stuck in the middle between: 

"Lets forget about all of those who put their lives at risk to protect us,"  the hard left

and

"Lets celebrate the day you gave us food and then we slaughtered you." the hard right

How do you feel about Pearl Harbor being avoidable but they we it happen and wanted war, or that we didn't need to go to Europe in the great war or how about Vietnam?  See that works a lot of ways.  My personal feeling after 9-11 was that a lot of patsies joined the military but I still respect them for doing it though they didn't think hard enough to know better.  Did it hurt you as a kid hearing about the pilgrims and the Indians?  Once you got older and could see that the whole narrative was more complex that's fine, you're ready to hear it.  Should we not celebrate the kindness of the natives?

Edited June 14, 2021 by OverSword

[+OverSword]

We have stories about ourselves that tell us who we think we are.  Does that matter?  Should we care to have an identity?  Should native Americans be scorned for having their own stories and traditions about who they are?  Why or why not?  How is it different?  It's not.  

[spartan max2]

I think an interesting point to consider in this discussion is also how Thanksgiving is mostly celebrated secularly now.

Like most people view Thanksgiving as a time to celebrate family and general feeling of gratitude. 

I don't think most people think about the natives and pilgrims eating together.

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

I think an interesting point to consider in this discussion is also how Thanksgiving is mostly celebrated secularly now.

Like most people view Thanksgiving as a time to celebrate family and general feeling of gratitude. 

I don't think most people think about the natives and pilgrims eating together.

Nor have we in my lifetime although we were aware of the mythos.  It's about gathering with your family for an enjoyable day of getting drunk, eating too much and watching football.  Great point.

Edited June 14, 2021 by OverSword

[spartan max2]

3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Nor have we in my lifetime although we were aware of the mythos.  It's about gathering with your family for an enjoyable day of getting drunk, eating too much and watching football.  Great point.

The mythos definitely sits in our subconscious some where.

I don't see that as harmful. But I guess that's what the argument is really about for people.

Is the mythos of the Thanksgiving story harmful?

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, spartan max2 said:

The mythos definitely sits in our subconscious some where.

I don't see that as harmful. But I guess that's what the argument is really about for people.

Is the mythos of the Thanksgiving story harmful?

Since it's a story and celebration of a time when natives and pilgrims got along and helped one another shouldn't it be something to remember and aspire to?  

[spartan max2]

5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Since it's a story and celebration of a time when natives and pilgrims got along and helped one another shouldn't it be something to remember and aspire to?  

I agree with you.

I think people against it see it as downplaying what happened to the natives. Idk.

Perhaps one of them can share ha

[Gromdor]

I was bored so I went to their website and sure enough all the holidays were simply a big square (with a key on the bottom noting squares are a day off).  Nothing was labeled except for pertinent school information.

I admit that it's generic-ness didn't invoke any sort of feeling of outrage (or any thing for that matter).

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, Gromdor said:

I was bored so I went to their website and sure enough all the holidays were simply a big square (with a key on the bottom noting squares are a day off).  Nothing was labeled except for pertinent school information.

I admit that it's generic-ness didn't invoke any sort of feeling of outrage (or any thing for that matter).

Would it if you heard that students got disciplined for talking about Thanksgiving or Christmas?  Review the reasons that the names were removed.  How far behind is the removal of speaking about them for the same reason?  Don't think it can't get that ridiculous.  Remember the  nine year old child that got suspended for biting a piece of bread into the shape of a gun?

[spartan max2]

8 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

I was bored so I went to their website and sure enough all the holidays were simply a big square (with a key on the bottom noting squares are a day off).  Nothing was labeled except for pertinent school information.

I admit that it's generic-ness didn't invoke any sort of feeling of outrage (or any thing for that matter).

Yeah screw MLK day. Don't need to celebrate that loser  haha

[Gromdor]

Just now, OverSword said:

Would it if you heard that students got disciplined for talking about Thanksgiving or Christmas?  Review the reasons that the names were removed.  How far behind is the removal of speaking about them for the same reason?  Don't think it can't get that ridiculous.  Remember the  nine year old child that got suspended for biting a piece of bread into the shape of a gun?

Perhaps, but I have heard anything about that from that school.

As for the gun thing, that happens here in Iowa too.  People don't even consider jokes about guns in school or shooting people funny anymore.  Especially since that joke turns into reality every other month it seems.

[Gromdor]

Just now, spartan max2 said:

Yeah screw MLK day. Don't need to celebrate that loser  haha

Funny, you mention that.  It was the first holiday the contractors and union threw out over here in negotiations for my work.  But yeah, even MLK day is just a square on the school calendar (in regards to the topic).

[spartan max2]

3 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Funny, you mention that.  It was the first holiday the contractors and union threw out over here in negotiations for my work.  But yeah, even MLK day is just a square on the school calendar (in regards to the topic).

That's interesting. Ours replaced Columbus day with MLK day a few years back

[+OverSword]

21 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Perhaps, but I have heard anything about that from that school.

As for the gun thing, that happens here in Iowa too.  People don't even consider jokes about guns in school or shooting people funny anymore.  Especially since that joke turns into reality every other month it seems.

But is it reasonable or does it show any kind of critical thought to suspend a nine year old kid in the third grade for biting a piece of bread into the shape of a pistol?  Does it actually seem dangerous that a kid did that?  There is reasonable adult responses and then there is hysteria.

Edited June 14, 2021 by OverSword

[Gromdor]

Just now, OverSword said:

But is it reasonable or show any kind of critical thought to suspend a nine year old kid in the third grade for biting a piece of bread into the shape of a pistol?  Does it actually seem dangerous that a kid did that?  There is reasonable adult responses and then there is hysteria.

A judge seemed to think so after it went to court: Judge upholds suspension of student who chewed pastry into the shape of a gun - The Washington Post

Of course the judge referenced stuff that we are not privy to such as "past behavioral escalations". 

[+OverSword]

Just now, Gromdor said:

A judge seemed to think so after it went to court: Judge upholds suspension of student who chewed pastry into the shape of a gun - The Washington Post

Of course the judge referenced stuff that we are not privy to such as "past behavioral escalations". 

Judges can't be hysterical or have an agenda?  How do you feel about challenges to RvW given the current makeup of the USSC?

[Gromdor]

Just now, OverSword said:

Judges can't be hysterical or have an agenda?  How do you feel about challenges to RvW given the current makeup of the USSC?

Typically, those that form a firm opinion based on just minimally reported facts tend to be more "hysterical" than a judge who has access to the facts and has to listen to arguments of lawyers from the various sides.

As for the RvW challenges, it amuses me that states have passed laws they know to be unconstitutional in the hopes that stacking a court with judges with political convictions will change it for them. The judges would have to put their personal beliefs over established law before RvW would be overturned.  Even if that happens, a future court could just change it back because the standard of "precedent" was already weakened if this came to pass.  There is also the small matter of both forced pregnancy and forced abortions being crimes against humanity in the world court.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

4 hours ago, OverSword said:

Speak for yourself.

I usually do. Anyone daft enough to agree with me deserves everything they get.

[Gunn]

5 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I agree with you.

I think people against it see it as downplaying what happened to the natives. Idk.

Perhaps one of them can share ha

Lol. Who the Wampanoag or all the rest of the American Indian Tribes? The Wampanoag is probably who you want to ask.

This is their perspective from their side of that festival.

https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/the-wampanoag-side-of-the-first-thanksgiving-story

Me, I could care less about it. It was Lincoln's idea as holiday anyway.

[spartan max2]

3 minutes ago, Gunn said:

Lol. Who the Wampanoag or all the rest of the American Indian Tribes? The Wampanoag is probably who you want to ask.

This is their perspective from their side of that festival.

https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/the-wampanoag-side-of-the-first-thanksgiving-story

Me, I could care less about it. It was Lincoln's idea as holiday anyway.

Their version sounds pretty similar unless I missed something?

Quote

When the Wampanoag showed up, they were invited to join the Pilgrims in their feast, but there was not enough food to feed the chief and his 90 warriors. “He [Massasoit] sends his men out, and they bring back five deer, which they present to the chief of the English town [William Bradford]. So, there is this whole ceremonial gift-giving, as well. When you give it as a gift, it is more than just food,” said Kathleen Wall, a Colonial Foodways Culinarian at Plimoth Plantation.

[text_ad]

 

The harvest feast lasted for three days. What did they eat? Venison, of course, and Wall said, “Not just a lovely roasted joint of venison, but all the parts of the deer were on the table in who knows how many sorts of ways.” Was there turkey? “Fowl” is mentioned in Winslow’s account, which puts turkey on Wall’s list of possibilities. She also said there probably would have been a variety of seafood and water fowl along with maize bread, pumpkin and other squashes. “It was nothing at all like a modern Thanksgiving,” she said.

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by spartan max2

[+OverSword]

5 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Their version sounds pretty similar unless I missed something?

 

In the version I'm familiar with the pilgrims were starving and the natives brought them food (?).  I guess that shows what I know.  

[Zeds Dead]

I warned of Islam taking over from within using race and hate as the weapon years ago.  But Nooo one one wanted to hear it. Started with Obama Raised in Indonesia. Islam wants to destroy our history our faith our gatherings schooling freedom of wait maybe I was thinkuing of China, and so much more. Only A few will understand this and I hate to say I told you so but Islam has won. The US will soon be like Iran. Don't laugh I was right for the last 15 years. 

 Biden is the death of America hands down, FACT JACK 

[Gunn]

10 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Their version sounds pretty similar unless I missed something?

 

Yeah but that's not what you asked. Doesn't matter, here is another perspective about it from a Mashpee Wampanoag.

https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/what-really-happened-at-the-first-thanksgiving-the-wampanoag-side-of-the-tale

[spartan max2]

2 minutes ago, Gunn said:

Yeah but that's not what you asked. Doesn't matter, here is another perspective about it from a Mashpee Wampanoag.

https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/what-really-happened-at-the-first-thanksgiving-the-wampanoag-side-of-the-tale

My question. Oh you mean about why people disagree with Thanksgiving ?

Do the Wampanoag? From reading the links it sounds like they also celebrate it. Or atleast I don't see them saying they think it she be abolished.