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Murder mystery as mother, son of prominent Irish family in SC found dead


Eldorado

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8 hours ago, susieice said:

That truck story just seems too fishy to me. There's a good chance he did shoot himself. He hasn't said he recognized the truck or anyone in it that shot him. We're supposed to believe that some random people in a truck who just happened to be there, turned around and shot him. If he was fired the day before and entered rehab that could re-enforce the theory that he shot himself.

Hi Susieice

There hasn't been any information that would indicate that he shot himself. If he did there would be gsr on his hands and cloths not to mention that there would be a significant amount of gsr in his hair and wound as it is close range. Was he stealing money from the firm that could be an indication that he owed someone and being a lawyer there is a possibility of organized crime. This is just speculation on my part but if you loosen the valve stem on the tire and toss the valve cap you will get a slow leak then just follow him until he has to get out to fix the tire. He may well know who shot at him and is too scared to say anything as the death of his wife and son may have been a warning or penalty for one reason or another.

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he did go into a rehab  for being on opioids, maybe he was dealing with a drug  cartel  why he robbed millions of dollars from his firm and why his wife  and son was murdered cause he didnt pay them but wouldn't the other son be murder to?  

Edited by docyabut2
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2 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

he did go into a rehab  for being on opioids, maybe he was dealing with a drug  cartel  why he robbed millions of dollars from his firm and why his wife  and son was murdered cause he didnt pay them but wouldn't the other son be murder to?  

Hi Docyabut

Keeping one alive could be used as a pressure point for leverage.

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On 9/7/2021 at 9:20 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hi Susieice

There hasn't been any information that would indicate that he shot himself. If he did there would be gsr on his hands and cloths not to mention that there would be a significant amount of gsr in his hair and wound as it is close range. Was he stealing money from the firm that could be an indication that he owed someone and being a lawyer there is a possibility of organized crime. This is just speculation on my part but if you loosen the valve stem on the tire and toss the valve cap you will get a slow leak then just follow him until he has to get out to fix the tire. He may well know who shot at him and is too scared to say anything as the death of his wife and son may have been a warning or penalty for one reason or another.

What kind of information from LE did you expect other than exactly what the M's wanted released ?  You expected the correct tests performed expediently ?  I'm thinking you might read up on the Stephen Smith investigation .  Are you aware most of, if not all of the physical evidence was "lost."  The DNA found on the body, the finger nail clippings and the DNA found under the finger nails ?  It all just got up and walked right out of evidence custody pretty soon after the pathologist ruled the death hit and run based on the body was found laying in the road ?  You think because Alex is down on his luck right now that his brother Randy is also ?  

I'm wagering covering up a suicide attempt is not a prob for this family.  If they wanted them to say Santa turned around on his sleigh and the elves shot him that's what their report would read.  

And it was the eldest son, Buster, who was thought to be involved in that death, not the boat driver.

Edited by Vincennes
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21 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

he did go into a rehab  for being on opioids, maybe he was dealing with a drug  cartel  why he robbed millions of dollars from his firm and why his wife  and son was murdered cause he didnt pay them but wouldn't the other son be murder to?  

I just can't figure out what need for the millions ?  A script or an illegal supply for Oxy wouldn't cost millions.  Gambling debts maybe.  

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3 hours ago, Vincennes said:

What kind of information from LE did you expect other than exactly what the M's wanted released ?  You expected the correct tests performed expediently ?  I'm thinking you might read up on the Stephen Smith investigation .  Are you aware most of, if not all of the physical evidence was "lost."  The DNA found on the body, the finger nail clippings and the DNA found under the finger nails ?  It all just got up and walked right out of evidence custody pretty soon after the pathologist ruled the death hit and run based on the body was found laying in the road ?  You think because Alex is down on his luck right now that his brother Randy is also ?  

I'm wagering covering up a suicide attempt is not a prob for this family.  If they wanted them to say Santa turned around on his sleigh and the elves shot him that's what their report would read.  

And it was the eldest son, Buster, who was thought to be involved in that death, not the boat driver.

Hi Vincennes

I don’t have a problem with you giving an opinion did I pee in your cornflakes or something? I clarified that I was speculating not different than you and others do.

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29 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Vincennes

I don’t have a problem with you giving an opinion did I pee in your cornflakes or something? I clarified that I was speculating not different than you and others do.

Apology, I only meant to respond to your speculation.  I guess I did say, "did you expect" when I should have said more like "that would require ."  Sorry didn't mean it to come off personally harsh.  I'm going to have to think through my responses a little more carefully.  :unsure2:  

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28 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

Apology, I only meant to respond to your speculation.  I guess I did say, "did you expect" when I should have said more like "that would require ."  Sorry didn't mean it to come off personally harsh.  I'm going to have to think through my responses a little more carefully.  :unsure2:  

Hi Vincennes

No problem we are good:tu:.

I haven't seen enough on their personal lives other than the boating accident or a little on the hit and run so was just speculating if the old boy was involved with organized crime in some way. Personally I have doubts of his integrity because of personal experience in the past and have had contempt for one prosecutor back home that specialized in drug cases and knew who his coke dealer was not to mention I knew who sold his dad(a judge) pot. We live on a world of good guys, bad guys, bad good guys and good bad guys. I wouldn't think that he stole money from his firm over prescription drugs but wouldn't discount that he may have been involved in laundering money and of course that is just speculation on my part. There is one organized crime institution in B.C. that is one of the most successful groups of their  organization in Canada because of their recruiting practices which focuses on lawyers, doctors and other professionals.

Edited by jmccr8
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Thanks for the understanding !

I have to say, from my own personal experiences, I have even more distrust of the system here or rather I should say, the people who run the system   I do understand exactly what you are saying.  I had the opportunity of watching the esteemed Gov. Kasich (the one who thought he should be president) rape the system here in Ohio in every way that he could. 

Enough, retired now over ten years and it still upsets me.  Ill laugh here from another personal experience.  Once as a kid I was working for the County Treasurer's office and one of my jobs was taking money over to the bank.  (Small town - farm community)  Well this teller who takes my money has this diamond ring and since jewelry is my hobby, I think to myself, "If I worked for this bank, I'd be questioning that ring on a teller cuz that's a lot of money."  Well I'm sorry to say it was a couple of years later when it hit the news.  Yep, she had been hitting the trustee accounts.  They were never even able to determine how much  LOL and she was flashing it right under their noses.  

They keep saying the amount is probably in the millions.  However, I'm wondering how good the "forensic" audit can be.  Audits like that can be difficult and so expensive they can only go so far.   So that's one cover he has.  But how would money laundering leave him millions to cover ?  They only thing I can still think of is gambling debts.  But I am open, it's just Oxy isn't working for me and I see Randy, his brother, as being all ready to protect whatever he can for the family name.  

Interesting too that we hear nothing about where the oldest kid, what's his name, "Bruser" ?, location is.  The one who they think killed the Smith kid by way of maybe a baseball bat outside of a truck with the kid running ??  

Edited by Vincennes
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32 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

Thanks for the understanding !

Hi Vincennes

And to you as well.

32 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

I have to say, from my own personal experiences, I have even more distrust of the system here or rather I should say, the people who run the system   I do understand exactly what you are saying. 

I have never denied that I have a past and what I have seen has jaded my outlook in some ways but am a fair person and do not judge all in a profession because of some. I grew up in a violent racist community and we had a fair share of dirty cops, one time 8 of them got caught doing a break and enter on a business and could give many examples of corruption but will refrain.

32 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

They keep saying the amount is probably in the millions.  However, I'm wondering how good the "forensic" audit can be.  Audits like that can be difficult and so expensive they can only go so far.   So that's one cover he has.  But how would money laundering leave him millions to cover ?  They only thing I can still think of is gambling debts.  But I am open, it's just Oxy isn't working for me and I see Randy, his brother, as being all ready to protect whatever he can for the family name. 

I would think that it is no different than losing a shipment of product by one means or another, that person is personally responsible for the lose and has to make it up or pay the consequences. Once again this is speculation but if he invested money into something that didn't pan out he would be on the hook to make it up so it is a gamble none the less although I will not discount what you have said about gambling debts either.

32 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

Interesting too that we hear nothing about where the oldest kid, what's his name, "Bruser" ?, location is.  The one who they think killed the Smith kid by way of maybe a baseball bat outside of a truck with the kid running ??  

When I was young(under the age of 10) it was not uncommon for a group of guys to get in the back of a pick up with cases of beer and corn straw brooms and drink while driving around looking for First Nations people that were walking down the street and smack them with brooms as they drove by they called it a night of brooming, some got hurt quite badly.

Edited by jmccr8
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59 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

I have never denied that I have a past and what I have seen has jaded my outlook in some ways but am a fair person and do not judge all in a profession because of some. I grew up in a violent racist community and we had a fair share of dirty cops, one time 8 of them got caught doing a break and enter on a business and could give many examplespme of corruption but will refrain.

My experiences deal more with dirty politicians and how they steal from public office and how they set up theft by who they put in charge and then? misdirect budgets millions at a time and set up to continue after their time in office as pay backs.  I think I can say I have seen millions diverted, the public fooled, the press totally controlled and that same iodiot proclaiming he should be president.  So it's lower level than that but still millions ????

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

I would think that it is no differeThnt than losing a shipment mof product by one means or another, that person is personally responsible for the lose and has to make it up or pay the consequences. Once again this is speculation but if he invested money into something that didn't pan out he would be on the hook to make it up so it is a gamble none the less although I will not discount what youSti have said about gambling debts either.

Still not talking millions.  There could br shipments msybe that largr but why would he be held to the point of death for losing them ?  Killing that person would only kill that point of supply chain again.  

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1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

When I was young(under the age of 10) iIt was not uncommon for a group of guys to get in the back of a pick up with cases of beer and corn straw brooms and drink while driving around looking for First Nations people that were walking down the street and smack them with brooms as they drove by they called it a night of brooming, some got hurt quite badly.

I'm going with this group somehow.  

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16 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

My experiences deal more with dirty politicians and how they steal from public office and how they set up theft by who they put in charge and then?

Hi Vincennes

Yes that is true as well and did work at the legislative building for the provincial govt back home when I was younger in the maintenance dept and because I wore blue jeans  I was invisible to stuffed shirts and heard more that I should have so no disagreement there. like I said I don't want to go to far down that hole.

20 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

Still not talking millions.  There could br shipments msybe that largr but why would he be held to the point of death for losing them ?  Killing that person would only kill that point of supply chain again.

Money laundering is millions of dollars and if he transacted a real estate deal or development that fell through he would be on the hook to pay it back, these guys don't play the same as common investors that make bad investments and eat the loss. He was shot at and not killed so was it a second warning, his description was it was a truck, no color or make given which I find hard to believe which is why I think he knew who it was and isn't talking. If it was about his son and the death of the guy on the road I would tend to think he would be giving up more detail about the vehicle.

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2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Vincennes

Yes that is true as well and did work at the legislative building for the provincial govt back home when I was younger in the maintenance dept and because I wore blue jeans  I was invisible to stuffed shirts and heard more that I should have so no disagreement there. like I said I don't want to go to far down that hole.

Got it.  Had a guy tell me once that he discovered he could go anywhere in a hospital he wanted to go by wearing a suit and tye and carrying a clip board.  

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2 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Money laundering is millions of dollars and if he transacted a real estate deal or development that fell through he would be on the hook to pay it back, these guys don't play the same as common investors that make bad investments and eat the loss. He was shot at and not killed so was it a second warning, his description was it was a truck, no color or make given which I find hard to believe which is why I think he knew who it was and isn't talking.

 

The idea of real estate deal falling through seems out of line to me with real estate value going through the roof.  Hard to think of a deal that would go bad.

However:  "He was shot at and not killed so was it a second warning, his description was it was a truck, no coldor or make given which I find hard to believe which is why I think he knew who it was and isn't talking."  

That makes sense !   Now I did see an interview with Stephen  Smith's mother who said police were there almost immediately after the first mother and son murder.  I'll try to find a link for that interview but it lends to what you are saying.  He's more or less pointing to them not away for a reason.  

I belive this is one of the series of articles that had the reference to Smith's mother.  All of the articles in the series are worth reading.

Who is Paul Murdaugh? Three Mysterious Deaths Tied To Hampton SC Family (fitsnews.com)

Edited by Vincennes
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2 hours ago, Vincennes said:

Got it.  Had a guy tell me once that he discovered he could go anywhere in a hospital he wanted to go by wearing a suit and tye and carrying a clip board.  

Hi Viincennes

Mostly it was because the maintenance man is seen as not to bright or he would have their job.

2 hours ago, Vincennes said:

 

The idea of real estate deal falling through seems out of line to me with real estate value going through the roof.  Hard to think of a deal that would go bad.

However:  "He was shot at and not killed so was it a second warning, his description was it was a truck, no coldor or make given which I find hard to believe which is why I think he knew who it was and isn't talking."  

That makes sense !   Now I did see an interview with Stephen  Smith's mother who said police were there almost immediately after the first mother and son murder.  I'll try to find a link for that interview but it lends to what you are saying.  He's more or less pointing to them not away for a reason.  

I belive this is one of the series of articles that had the reference to Smith's mother.  All of the articles in the series are worth reading.

Who is Paul Murdaugh? Three Mysterious Deaths Tied To Hampton SC Family (fitsnews.com)

Thanks for the link and did read several of the articles. Odd that they do not seem to have tested him for gsr in the double murder of his wife and son if one of the weapons was his. If the tire was slashed with a knife I doubt that it would go 50 miles maybe if it was a nail puncture okay but with a knife he should have noticed it right away so did he drive out there and puncture it where he stopped and did he go there to meet someone?

https://www.firefighternation.com/firerescue/the-impact-of-run-flat-tires/#gref

Note: If you do choose to deflate the tire(s), it is unsafe to slam a Halligan, knife or other tool into the tire’s side wall. In the case of the run-flat tire, the Halligan will not penetrate the side wall, resulting in the Halligan bouncing back and potentially striking the responder or someone else. Depending on the position in which the knife is held, it could strike the responder or slip in their hand, resulting in serious lacerations and/or punctures. Such cases have already been documented.

https://www.mbhuntington.com/what-are-run-flat-tires-on-mercedes-benz-vehicles/

Run-flat tires, also known as Extended Mobility Tires allow you minimal movement with low tire pressure. This means that as long as the tire itself isn’t damaged, you can move your vehicle up to 50 miles per hour for 50 miles on your low-pressure tire. 

Most autos have tire pressure sensors and give a warning so I find it hard to believe that he did not go for air especially if the tire was punctured before he left and from the pics in the news articles you link it appeared like they were searching the area where he was stopped to change the tire that he had no factory spare tire to change it with. 

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10 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Thanks for the link and did read several of the articles. Odd that they do not seem to have tested him for gsr in the double murder of his wife and son if one of the weapons was his. If the tire was slashed with a knife I doubt that it would go 50 miles maybe if it was a nail puncture okay but with a knife he should have noticed it right away so did he drive out there and puncture it where he stopped and did he go there to meet someone?

https://www.firefighternation.com/firerescue/the-impact-of-run-flat-tires/#gref

Note: If you do choose to deflate the tire(s), it is unsafe to slam a Halligan, knife or other tool into the tire’s side wall. In the case of the run-flat tire, the Halligan will not penetrate the side wall, resulting in the Halligan bouncing back and potentially striking the responder or someone else. Depending on the position in which the knife is held, it could strike the responder or slip in their hand, resulting in serious lacerations and/or punctures. Such cases have already been documented.

https://www.mbhuntington.com/what-are-run-flat-tires-on-mercedes-benz-vehicles/

Run-flat tires, also known as Extended Mobility Tires allow you minimal movement with low tire pressure. This means that as long as the tire itself isn’t damaged, you can move your vehicle up to 50 miles per hour for 50 miles on your low-pressure tire. 

Most autos have tire pressure sensors and give a warning so I find it hard to believe that he did Inot go for air especially if the tire was punctured before he left and from the pics in the news articles you link it appeared like they were searching the area where he was stopped to change the tire that he had no factory spare tire to change it with. 

I'm in the process of moving the next couple of weeks and a lot of things need to be done.  So if I go quiet, it's not that I'm not interested but reading up on things might be difficult.

Wow there is a lot there that certainly leaves questions.  One thing is I don't think the responding LE to the murders or to his own shooting had any idea he might have had things going on not so good.  He was thrown out of the firm the day before his head shot, so I'm thinking they might have had no idea of his fall from grace and went along with whatever he said.  

I'm also really liking your idea he was trying to throw blame toward earlier families getting even.  I think that might appeal to a drugged up mind thinking he would get some sympathy going.  

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I'm beginning to wonder if the father didn't shoot the mother and son and then cover himself by faking the attack.  The father was stealing from the law firm.  He could have had a mistress on the side and his wife was about to rat him out.  Maybe the son wasn't the intended target?  Maybe he was collateral damage?  Just by looking at photos of these people, in their expensive clothes and the fact they were lawyers, you knew they were rats.

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4 hours ago, Vincennes said:

I'm in the process of moving the next couple of weeks and a lot of things need to be done.  So if I go quiet, it's not that I'm not interested but reading up on things might be difficult.

Hi Vincennes

I hope things go well with the move for you.

5 hours ago, Vincennes said:

Wow there is a lot there that certainly leaves questions.  One thing is I don't think the responding LE to the murders or to his own shooting had any idea he might have had things going on not so good.  He was thrown out of the firm the day before his head shot, so I'm thinking they might have had no idea of his fall from grace and went along with whatever he said.  

I'm also really liking your idea he was trying to throw blame toward earlier families getting even.  I think that might appeal to a drugged up mind thinking he would get some sympathy going.  

I am going to keep following this to see what unfolds as there does seem to be a lot of deception involved.

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5 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Vincennes

I hope things go well with the move for you.

I am going to keep following this to see what unfolds as there does seem to be a lot of deception involved.

I have some input from my daughter who has driven BMWs for years and did have the opportunity of puncturing a tire while driving.  First she questioned how he wouldn't know of the puncture (if it had been done while the car was parked before he started back home) because there is an alarm that sounds IMMEDIATELY  and it's not just a beep - beep, your losing presure, it's a red flashing, alarm sounding alarm-alarm "incorrect tire pressure.  She immediately thought she had a flat and pulled over, called a tow company and told them to put on her "spare" tire.  She said she remembered BMWs don't have spares only after the tow guy told her that before that you go on instinct.  

Edited by Vincennes
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2 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

I have some input from my daughter who has driven BMWs for years and did have the opportunity of puncturing a tire while driving.  First she questioned how he wouldn't know of the puncture (if it had been done while the car was parked before he started back home) because there is an alarm that sounds IMMEDIATELY  and it's not just a beep - beep, your losing presure, it's a red flashing, alarm sounding alarm-alarm "incorrect tire pressure.  She immediately thought she had a flat and pulled over, called a tow company and told them to put on her "spare" tire.  

Hi Vincennces

Yes I have an older Caddy that lets me know when my tire pressure is low when I start my car that comes up on the display and I can check tire pressure on each of the tires from the driver info on the screen which is why I wondered how he would not have known when he started the vehicle and is why I think the tire was flattened where he pulled over. I would think that because of the heavier sidewalls on the tire that it would be difficult to puncture unnoticed in a public parking spot not to mention that driver handling would be affected.

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2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Vincennces

Yes I have an older Caddy that lets me know when my tire pressure is low when I start my car that comes up on the display and I can check tire pressure on each of the tires from the driver info on the screen which is why I wondered how he would not have known when he started the vehicle and is why I think the tire was flattened where he pulled over. I would think that because of the heavier sidewalls on the tire that it would be difficult to puncture unnoticed in a public parking spot not to mention that driver handling would be affected.

Yeah, what she said agrees with that.  And since she actually had a knife like (curb damage) slit in her tire happen, she thought it impossible he wouldn't know from almost immediately tire pressure was not right.  But she did laugh and say that when the tow guy asked her if she had a spare, she said, "well certainly there's a spare"  LOL and that a guy might just get out to put one on without thinking it through

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Well here's what should be some interesting information but isn't really.  What's interesting is their need to hide almost everything.

sled-murdaugh-release-1624306236.pdf (htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com)

 

Yes I have been doing more of this than the packing I should be doing   :D   

I have come up with a rather far out idea based on no kind of nothing but I have began to suspect Alex himself.  There is a video of Alex's two brothers together with one of them saying when Alex called him he knew something was really wrong and then Alex said, "Come quick, Maggie and Paul have been hurt."  Minimizing a crime is what guilty people do.  I can't think he's thinking that fast so soon after a crime and doing that to protect his brother.  

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56 minutes ago, Vincennes said:

Well here's what should be some interesting information but isn't really.  What's interesting is their need to hide almost everything.

sled-murdaugh-release-1624306236.pdf (htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com)

Hi Vincennes

From the earlier link you gave from news articles and the others in that link he is a suspect in their deaths which would be par of course as usually they look at family first. The one article said that it was his rifle that was one of the weapons used and that there were 2 weapons involved in the shootings so that would indicate to me that there was more than one shooter. What I am not seeing is that they collected his clothing for analysis for GSR or testing him for it in either incident. To me it seems that he knows who did what and may have been physically involved with a partner or keeping his mouth shut about what he knows.

When he was shot I didn't see how they determined if if was a gunshot wound, could it have been an injury from trying to slash his own tire? There was nothing that I have read that clarifies this nor is there any information about GSR in that instance either.

No need to hurry in responding as I know you have other tings to deal with.

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On 9/10/2021 at 2:13 PM, tortugabob said:

I'm beginning to wonder if the father didn't shoot the mother and son and then cover himself by faking the attack.  The father was stealing from the law firm.  He could have had a mistress on the side and his wife was about to rat him out.  Maybe the son wasn't the intended target?  Maybe he was collateral damage?  Just by looking at photos of these people, in their expensive clothes and the fact they were lawyers, you knew they were rats.

Some times I find a lag in receiving posts.  Some how I didn't see your's until a happen to go back up through and noticed it.  Right now I have this suspicion myself.  

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